To Dinan or not to Dinan?

[virtual_fighter]

HI there,

I have a 2001 325Ci Convert. with 45,000 Miles.
I was wondering if I want to add some poneys under my hood, is it worth it to go the Dinan route, espeically with my current mileage?
I would ask Dinan but I want to get an opinion from a someone who does not want my $$$.

Let me know if there are other options other than Dinan that are not going to wreck my car. I would prefer going with Dinan since they are a well known reference in the BMW world.

Anyone with same experience?

Thanks!

[richbmw323]

Looked at the same thing and it was a waste of money IMO. over $1000 for what 10 hp and 8 lbs tq. No thanks.

[virtual_fighter]

The upgrade to S1 costs $4500-$5000 and it adds only 10 HP?

[russ330]

Not worth it. I grew up in Germany (19 years), I've been around BMW's my entire life. Never once before I came to the States had I heard of Steve Dinan before.

Dinan products are well engineered and are quality, but they are over hyped. Simply because they are sold at US BMW dealerships, and sing this great song about how they won't void your warranty (look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to know the real story) people fall for it. There are products that will yeild far greater results, and usually for less money.

Stick around this forum for a bit. Use the search function; 'CAI' 'pulleys' 'exhaust' 'suspension' learn from what others have experienced, get a feel for what the good products are, and make your decision.

[Alex]

Not worth it. I grew up in Germany (19 years), I've been around BMW's my entire life. Never once before I came to the States had I heard of Steve Dinan before.

Dinan products are well engineered and are quality, but they are over hyped. Simply because they are sold at US BMW dealerships, and sing this great song about how they won't void your warranty (look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to know the real story) people fall for it. There are products that will yeild far greater results, and usually for less money.

Stick around this forum for a bit. Use the search function; 'CAI' 'pulleys' 'exhaust' 'suspension' learn from what others have experienced, get a feel for what the good products are, and make your decision.
wise words.....:thumbup:

[extassy]

I had a 2000 z3 2.3... I had the choice of buying the 2.8 or 2.3... I got a great deal on the 2.3 which had left me a budget left over ~$4,000. Instead of spending the money on wheels, I went to get the Dinan free flow exhaust (which sounded very sweet), Cold air intake (sounds very sweet too) and the Dinan software installed. It did not add too much horse power, but the performance and the responsiveness of the engine is more than I have expected... I run par with the 2.8 and sometimes I could actually surpassed the 2.8... the only draw back is that, it does not perform too well when:

1) You have a heavy a load... passenger or cargo, and
2) hot climate

To me it was really worth it for the performance aspect of it... the car is much more fun to drive... I know that this is a different car...but it has the same engine.... and also when I have problem with the car... the dealership will fix it w/ no questions ask... IMO if u can afford it, go for it... but if I were u... I'll safe the $4K-5K... sell the 325 and get myself a 330ZHP or an M3 :thumbup:

[russ330]

^I know Dinan is expensive, but please tell me that just those three things did not cost $4K. :eek:

[vaio76109]

S1 isnt just engine tho, its also some suspension and some other crap.

[BMW330xi01]

NOT its a waste!!! i was looking at the price to power cost and it sickens me.

[kashif]

for a lil more money you could supercharge your ride. Adding around 100hp once you supercharge. So yes dinan would be a waste of $$. I'd say supercharge later on you could save some money for a decent set of coilovers(thats if you track the carm, other wise even the stock sport suspension is pretty good, with afew mods such as swaybars, springs).

[extassy]

^I know Dinan is expensive, but please tell me that just those three things did not cost $4K. :eek:

No... it costs ~$2,500 installed.

Yes it is expensive... but come to think of it, a lot of fanatics here spent a lot of their money on non-performance mods... the best example is aftermarket wheels... yes Hamann, AC-Schnitzer, iForged, HRE... they all look sick... but they do nothing else other than to look good... $4K can barely get u a 17" Hamann HM2 wheels with tires on them...

IMO, in this case, I rather spend $2,500.00 on Dinan Mods for added performance and no questions ask when it comes to warranty...then on cosmetic mods... yes there is the Magnusson-Moss Act... but often stealership will question your mods when damage or malfunction are found in ur car...which in turn could void ur warranty or will overcharge u for the repair cost (unless u know the them really well or u r a loyal customer)... I rather not deal with the headache

I agree that there r other cheaper after market that u could get the most HP for the bucks.... just hope and pray that they don't damage ur car...cuz it will cost u a fortune if ur warranty is void.

As I mentioned before....if u want more HP... Safe ur money then sell or trade ur car for a 330zhp or an M3... u won't regret it...

[Will ZCPM3]

dinan actually only warranties their parts. the only thing you'd be saving would be the hastle your dealership might give you.

[e36325i]

I've got some dinan stuff and am happy with what I have, but if your just looking for horsepower I would go with other companies

[Cali6869]

Not To Dinan

[ThrottleJunkie]

While were on the topic of Dinan, ive been very interested in getting the S3M3 package. its got the supercharger as well as a stage 3 suspension, exhaust, among others and it wouldnt be my money it would be as a gift, is this worth it?

[JCz04Bimmer]

No... it costs ~$2,500 installed.

Yes it is expensive... but come to think of it, a lot of fanatics here spent a lot of their money on non-performance mods... the best example is aftermarket wheels... yes Hamann, AC-Schnitzer, iForged, HRE... they all look sick... but they do nothing else other than to look good... $4K can barely get u a 17" Hamann HM2 wheels with tires on them...

IMO, in this case, I rather spend $2,500.00 on Dinan Mods for added performance and no questions ask when it comes to warranty...then on cosmetic mods... yes there is the Magnusson-Moss Act... but often stealership will question your mods when damage or malfunction are found in ur car...which in turn could void ur warranty or will overcharge u for the repair cost (unless u know the them really well or u r a loyal customer)... I rather not deal with the headache

I agree that there r other cheaper after market that u could get the most HP for the bucks.... just hope and pray that they don't damage ur car...cuz it will cost u a fortune if ur warranty is void.

As I mentioned before....if u want more HP... Safe ur money then sell or trade ur car for a 330zhp or an M3... u won't regret it...
:vinmac:

Ok. You're making reference to the use of money towards cosmetic mods to justify your spending of 2.5k for your Dinan mods. Frankly, you can't compare apples to oranges. Sure, people spend WAY too much money on wheels and such and body kits and I agree, that is stupid.

But its also stupid to spend 2.5k on Dinan mods. For the same money you can outfit your car from an extremely reputable company such as, say, UUC Motorwerks. They test their parts (usually in my car lol), they engineer their parts and base all their customizations on the tried and true methods of BMW with a slight change to help performance. This, I'd assume, is quite true across the board with aftermarket companies. With that said, I have NO FEAR whatsoever that the parts put into my car will damage it in any way. At least, I know that they will not damage the car any more than the equivalent mods purchased from Dinan! Ironically, my "aftermarket struts" as a part of the UUC Stage3 kit are, shocker, Sachs. Guess who makes OEM struts? Sachs.

The difference here is that Dinan markets to a clientele that doesn't really know what the parts are. They know that a suspension makes the car tighter, an exhaust makes the car louder and may bump performance, etc. Sure there are exceptions but this is what their products are marketed for. If you know a thing or two about an exhaust you'd know that putting on an aftermarket exhaust IS NOT going to void ur entire car's warranty and any attempt by the daelership to tell you it did is going to 1) infuriate me 2) make me go elsewhere 3) never purchase/service there again.

So, in the end, Dinan is truly a rip off and, in the end only gives you the convenience of having the parts serviced IN HOUSE at your dealership. If that is worth the extra 50% price hike? Go for it. But, for 2.5k I'd buy the same parts elsewhere and still have money left over that if something in the unlikely event happened I could go to a reputable shop and have it fixed and still have it be less than Dinan parts.

Also, its important to realize that WHEELS can be a HUGE performance boost. HRE's are ultralight. When going from 17in Breytons to my 18in RoJas I got significantly (VERY) faster. Changing to a <20lb wheel is a HUGE performance gain.

The equivalent of the S1 kit for 4740 (not installed)...

700 UUC/Sachs Stage 3 Suspension Kit
370 UUC Aluminum/Magnesium Strut Bar
350 UUC Sway Bars
350 Benfer Carbon Fiber Intake
1250 UUC TSE3 Exhaust
350 Shark Injector

Total: $3370

You can install the strut and intake and software yourself. You can have the exhaust and suspension components like installed for somewhere in the 500-750 range. At the dealership, you're going to pay about 100/hr for that install and they'll rip you off and, in the end, the entire thing'll cost around 6000. Whereas the above will likely cost no more than 4000 when all is said and done. The suspension kit uses an OE Manufacturer, the sway bars aren't the kind of thing that'll destroy ur car. Ever. The Strut bar, same thing... no impact on your car AT ALL. The exhaust is leagues ahead of the Dinan part. The intake the SAME design as the former Dinan part which was one of their ONLY nice parts. The software is tried and true. And can be installed and uninstalled in 5min. Now, what's missing... throttle body... fine... get that from Dinan. :lmao: So, with those parts above... no dealership can tell you that the reason why your check engine light came on was because of your mods...

So what's the benefit of Dinan again? Right, its sold in the dealership, serviced by the dealership, and installed by the dealership (albeit at insane prices).

Dinan :thumbdwn:

[S2Krazy]

Not To Dinan:werd:

[russ330]

Never once before I came to the States had I heard of Steve Dinan before.
I've gotta amend this statement. I was recently informed that there are folks over in Germany and the rest of Europe that do know about Dinan products, furthermore from what was stated by another member, the BMW musem (sp?) also talks about the Dinan company.

My bad on this one.

[m3on20z]

I've gotta amend this statement. I was recently informed that there are folks over in Germany and the rest of Europe that do know about Dinan products, furthermore from what was stated by another member, the BMW musem (sp?) also talks about the Dinan company.

My bad on this one.

It's ok Russ, haha

My advise, just say No to Dinan. :thumbup:

[Alex]

I've gotta amend this statement. I was recently informed that there are folks over in Germany and the rest of Europe that do know about Dinan products, furthermore from what was stated by another member, the BMW musem (sp?) also talks about the Dinan company.

My bad on this one.
yeah Matt, like M3on says: sh!t happens.

Alex

[jbcritch]

OK, for what it is worth....

I am saving my money for Dinan. Why? Sure I could save $1000 on the same mods by another...and it may get me 2 to 5 more HP (perhaps more with equivalent mods?) but I have a new car under warranty. Dinan warrants their parts, and, from my read of the website, the parts do not void the BMW warranty.

Yes, yes, yes....enough about the Magnusson-Moss Act already. If I save $1,000 and something happens to my engine, and I take it in and there is an aftermarket part on there other than Dinan, BMW should take a look at it...but how are you going to make that happen? I dont know many dealers who would bother to waste their time inspecting the engine to see if it is their problem or was caused by the aftermarket part. They are going to tell you no...and then you are gonna spend your $1000 plus some on an attorney. I am an attorney and I personallly charge $185 per hour, and that is cheap....an attorney will blow through the "saved" money so fast it will make your head spin. Dont forget, in the USA each party pays their own attorneys fees win or lose (absent bad faith or fraud, which I dont see how a denial by BMW could be when your aftermarket part is on there).

Anyhow, for some of us with newer cars, under warranty, the piece of mind is worth the $$$$. If I had a 10 year old car, I would sing a different tune.

The Magnusson-Moss Act deals and delt most effectively with manufacturers (Ferrarri for example - see the caselaw on this) when they "required" the owners to use Ferrarri motor oil. The Act says "unless you are going to provide it for free, you cannot make them use a certain product. That is what the Act is best at. So you can use different oil, air filters, etc. The Act does not anticipate a person replacing not only the air filter, but also the manner and method it flows into a car......

Flame away folks, but for some of us it is all about NOT fighting with a dealership....heck, mine treats me good, always has loaners, and helps me out with a few freebies now and then.......

[epeart]

HI there,

I have a 2001 325Ci Convert. with 45,000 Miles.
I was wondering if I want to add some poneys under my hood, is it worth it to go the Dinan route, espeically with my current mileage?
I would ask Dinan but I want to get an opinion from a someone who does not want my $$$.

Let me know if there are other options other than Dinan that are not going to wreck my car. I would prefer going with Dinan since they are a well known reference in the BMW world.

Anyone with same experience?

Thanks!For what its worth I bought my car brand new in June 2000 and I went the 323 route rather then 328 or 330 because I was Dinan upgradeing the car as soon as I got it. That said it was the Stage II kit (software,carbonfiber intake ) $1100 it was fun for a couple years pulling on 330's and blowing past them after 137mph but there was M3 and that's what I was after ( more torque & HP ) so now I'm S/C not running %100 but still kicking crazy a$$. So once My fuel pressure problem is fixed (Running way lean ) I know I'll be real Happy! with the cold crisp weather we've been having up here in the North East it goes to full boost real quick and hard! feels real nice. Even when I'm trying to stay out of Boost! I paid the price for Dinan and it was worth it back then. But now the S/C technolgy is much better so I would say save some more money and get a Blower.

[NICEBIMMER]

Not worth it. I grew up in Germany (19 years), I've been around BMW's my entire life. Never once before I came to the States had I heard of Steve Dinan before.

Dinan products are well engineered and are quality, but they are over hyped. Simply because they are sold at US BMW dealerships, and sing this great song about how they won't void your warranty (look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to know the real story) people fall for it. There are products that will yeild far greater results, and usually for less money.

Stick around this forum for a bit. Use the search function; 'CAI' 'pulleys' 'exhaust' 'suspension' learn from what others have experienced, get a feel for what the good products are, and make your decision.

Well put ...

[jbcritch]

Wow...this is what I love about the holidays....everyone is nice. I make a statement about liking Dinan and why some of us are going the Dinan route and you guys didnt flame me....even after I expected to be flamed..... :woot:

Thanks guys! That is why I keep coming back here!!!! :thumbup:

For what it is worth, I look like a noob on my sig, but have been around a while (I turn 35 on Sunday :craig: ) and this is not my first BMW, nor my second euro car....I have had 2 Audis, 2 BMWs and a Benz. Loved BMW enough to come back....

[JCz04Bimmer]

OK, for what it is worth....

I am saving my money for Dinan. Why? Sure I could save $1000 on the same mods by another...and it may get me 2 to 5 more HP (perhaps more with equivalent mods?) but I have a new car under warranty. Dinan warrants their parts, and, from my read of the website, the parts do not void the BMW warranty.

Yes, yes, yes....enough about the Magnusson-Moss Act already. If I save $1,000 and something happens to my engine, and I take it in and there is an aftermarket part on there other than Dinan, BMW should take a look at it...but how are you going to make that happen? I dont know many dealers who would bother to waste their time inspecting the engine to see if it is their problem or was caused by the aftermarket part. They are going to tell you no...and then you are gonna spend your $1000 plus some on an attorney. I am an attorney and I personallly charge $185 per hour, and that is cheap....an attorney will blow through the "saved" money so fast it will make your head spin. Dont forget, in the USA each party pays their own attorneys fees win or lose (absent bad faith or fraud, which I dont see how a denial by BMW could be when your aftermarket part is on there).

Anyhow, for some of us with newer cars, under warranty, the piece of mind is worth the $$$$. If I had a 10 year old car, I would sing a different tune.

The Magnusson-Moss Act deals and delt most effectively with manufacturers (Ferrarri for example - see the caselaw on this) when they "required" the owners to use Ferrarri motor oil. The Act says "unless you are going to provide it for free, you cannot make them use a certain product. That is what the Act is best at. So you can use different oil, air filters, etc. The Act does not anticipate a person replacing not only the air filter, but also the manner and method it flows into a car......

Flame away folks, but for some of us it is all about NOT fighting with a dealership....heck, mine treats me good, always has loaners, and helps me out with a few freebies now and then.......
This is not a flame. Repeat, this is not a flame!

See, the thing to realize here is that, again, Dinan is marketing their products to a crowd that thinks this way. The bottom line is that the marketing guys over at Dinan are pure geniuses for being able to secure this type "customer" so effectively.

The thing to realize is that when something breaks on a BMW it is rarely "broken." Something is usually off, out of place, or needs slight adjustments whether it be a physical adjustment or a computer adjustment of some form. The extra $1000 spent on Dinan would NOT go towards a lawyer to get the dealership to fix the problem. The extra $1000 (or rather 100-200) would go to a reputable BMW shop to fix the problem the dealership refuses to fix. Granted, this is ASSUMING that the dealership is right. For example, I can understand the dealership refusing to check out a squeek when you go over bumps if you've swapped your entire suspension system (happened to me). In the end, I just took it to a friend to get looked at. That extra $1000 is better spent on getting the problem solved and not forcing the overpriced stealership to do it for you.

Again, Dinan markets to a certain mentality and certain population with their "we don't void the warranty" stuff. The bottom line is that IT DOES void the BMW warranty ON THE PART YOU REPLACE. Guess what?! That's the SAME policy for EVERY single part you add on as aftermarket. The ONLY difference is that when you bring you car in and something is wrong, they will simply see those Dinan parts as parts that they service. When something needs to get yanked out, it doesn't go to BMW... it goes to Dinan! If you had a set of Bilstein shocks on your car and it was still under warranty and all of a sudden the car is really harsh. You bring it to a shop, they look at it, charge you something for that (hourly rate), and tell you the shocks are shot. Bilstein warrants their products for lifetime. So, guess what, send em back and you get new ones free.

Look, too each's own is what it comes down to. But the overarching theme is that Dinan products give NO benefit whatsoever OTHER than the convenience of having the parts services IN THE DEALERSHIP. If that is worth overpriced and underperforming Dinan parts. Go for it. Otherwise, buy some real parts that do something legit.

[jbcritch]

JC, you make valid points....thanks for the "no flame" warning.. :)

If I buy the other guys parts, will I see a noticable difference in overall horsepower (ie. total Dinan S package + throttle body v. the other guys parts) cause Dinan suggests that I will expect 240 hp which seems reasonable given the money. (compare the ZHP package w/ its 10 hp gain and its cost v. what Dinan does....) If I can get 250+ hp for less money...I may be swayed.....however, I am one of those mindsets that go for stability and promises over the overall pontential (ie....I look for safety and security).

If I had bought new, I am the kind of guy that would have bought the ZHP package and been very happy and probably never moded beyond that.....never mind the fact that my wife cannot drive a stick :bawling:

I am not 100% committed yet...which is why I am on the different forums all the time....looking for wisdom from those that have gone before me such as yourself. :thumbup:

[JCz04Bimmer]

JC, you make valid points....thanks for the "no flame" warning.. :)

If I buy the other guys parts, will I see a noticable difference in overall horsepower (ie. total Dinan S package + throttle body v. the other guys parts) cause Dinan suggests that I will expect 240 hp which seems reasonable given the money. (compare the ZHP package w/ its 10 hp gain and its cost v. what Dinan does....) If I can get 250+ hp for less money...I may be swayed.....however, I am one of those mindsets that go for stability and promises over the overall pontential (ie....I look for safety and security).

If I had bought new, I am the kind of guy that would have bought the ZHP package and been very happy and probably never moded beyond that.....never mind the fact that my wife cannot drive a stick :bawling:

I am not 100% committed yet...which is why I am on the different forums all the time....looking for wisdom from those that have gone before me such as yourself. :thumbup:
:lmao: @ that 240hp claim. That's another thing, Dinan has the ability to make claims of hp gains that no one really questions. They aren't subjected to same level of "enthusiast scrutiny" that all the other manufacturers do. They're just known as the "easy choice."

Now, I DOUBT 100% that you can get even close to 240hp out of the Dinan mods. In fact, I doubt that you can get 240hp out of ANY bolt-on mods short of cams, headers, and those kind of mods.

You mentioned that you go for safety and security in the mods that you're going to be putting into your car. Now I take that to mean not that you want your car to be safer in an accident but you want the parts to work, be reliable, and not give you more problems. The bottom line is simple here. The parts that you are talking about adding are not the kind of parts that are going to break your car. They just aren't that "kind" of part. If you were looking to do headers, cams, s/c etc then I'd say YOU BETTER be looking for the best covered and most reliable part. But when it comes to, say for example, a suspension kit. It doesn't make sense to get the Dinan parts when you can get the UUC parts. It doesn't make sense to spend so much money on the Dinan intake when 1) you can yank an intake out of your car in 10min 2) you can get the EXACT SAME DESIGN for so much cheaper. Just look at the Benfer Intake! And that's CF. Its the same damn design. There is no variation in reliability to even be possible! As for the throttle body, that might be the ONLY Dinan part I'd say go ahead and get because no one (short of Rennsport/Technik?) offer that part for our cars. As for software, don't you think its better to go with a company that allows you to instantly uninstall and install the software and has been around for just about as long as Dinan with more of a focus not on the clueless customer but the enthusiast?

One think you must realize about the "other" companies out there. Even though they're tuning for the "enthusiast" they also know that almost all people who look to mod their BMW are still looking for reliability and security and safety in their purchases. We aren't Honda/Acura owners who are bolting on any piece of crap that comes our way. That gives you that much more security that the "other companies" are doing just as much (if not more) to ensure their parts are right for your cars than Dinan.

[jbcritch]

That may be it....too much NOPI TV on speed TV and it seems like the ricers will put any crap on their cars and ***** a storm when it craps out.....

Hmmmmm.....I may have to put Dinan to a dyno test....see if they can back up their claims...the man (Steve Dinan) is a brilliant....there are articles out the wazoo about his upgrades in fairly mainstream magazines....not the rare tuner mag....gotta hand that to him at the very least.

thanks for the info and advice. :thumbup:

[JCz04Bimmer]

No question Dinan is a billiant tuner but the reality is that our engines are really quite maxed out. With that in mind, it makes no sense to spend the money he seeks to charge for the parts. If we were talking about Vipers, then Hennessey is a different story. His modifications make those cars in 1000hp beasts. No company, Dinan or not, can do that. So, when you realize that that isn't a possibility you should purchase based on price. Thing to remember about that Magnus-whatever-Act is mostly that it makes it so that the dealership cannot flat out refuse to touch your car if it has mods. Also, a thing to remember is that each part you buy will (hopefully) have a factory warranty of its own. Sure, you can't get it replaced at the dealership but thats the only difference. If a non-Dinan part breaks, send it back under warranty and you're on the road again. Really, the essential part here is to befriend some mechanics. I'm lucky enough to have a few friends (Brian-bbh03 and crew) who are quite knowledgable about installation and do it for fun.

I would love to see a real-life dyno test of a fully Dinan'd out car but thats an awful lot of money to spend to get a conclusion that we (myself, et al) know already. That conclusion, unfortunately, is that Dinan (like many others) greatly inflate their hp gains.

You should look at the parts put out there by UUC Motorwerks. I work very closely with Rob (owner) and he's right up there with Dinan in my eyes. The parts are cheaper but just as (if not more) reliable. I mean, take for example the clutch/flywheel setups they sell. They specifically engineer them to remove stupid BMW technology to give you better performance replacing it with tried and true technology. Removes the Self-Adjusting Mechanism and replaces it with the far more advanced and reliable sprung-hub technology found EVERYWHERE in the automobile industry. Likewise, this flywheel/clutch is designed not to use their own clutch plate but rather, a clutch plate you can buy from any dealership. This cuts your cost, this makes your installation/maintenance easier, and it still utilizes BMW engineering to an intelligent extent. Along the same lines, their Stage3 kit doesn't have adjustments. Its already made to balance comfort with performance and uses the very same OEM manufacturer, Sachs. This is the kind of engineering you want in a BMW and it doesn't come from Dinan. It comes from a company started by a few guys who know their sh~t about BMWs and want nothing more than perfect parts at the right price.

:thumbup: Keep us posted on what you decide and feel free to shoot me an Email sometime if you want to discuss further!

Jared

[jbcritch]

Checking out UCC....thanks.

[The 330i]

Hello jbcritch,

JC, you make valid points....thanks for the "no flame" warning.. :)

If I buy the other guys parts, will I see a noticable difference in overall horsepower (ie. total Dinan S package + throttle body v. the other guys parts) cause Dinan suggests that I will expect 240 hp which seems reasonable given the money. (compare the ZHP package w/ its 10 hp gain and its cost v. what Dinan does....) If I can get 250+ hp for less money...I may be swayed.....however, I am one of those mindsets that go for stability and promises over the overall pontential (ie....I look for safety and security).

If I had bought new, I am the kind of guy that would have bought the ZHP package and been very happy and probably never moded beyond that.....never mind the fact that my wife cannot drive a stick :bawling:

I am not 100% committed yet...which is why I am on the different forums all the time....looking for wisdom from those that have gone before me such as yourself. :thumbup:

This is not a flame. Especially about you at all.

About Steve Dinan being brilliant - yes, in marketing he is.
Then again, well-marketed products do not necessarily guarantee the superiority in performance, I must add.
(Just look at Windows. No, not the one that you see the streets through. The one you see the Blue Screen on, I meant. :P)

Please take a look at My Posting Here (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147592&page=2), and tell me otherwise.


Sincerely,

[jbcritch]

I was checking out UCC's website. It seems that the only part they sell for my car (2003 330i) is a catback exhaust. No chip, no intake, etc. Am I missing something? All parts seem to be for E46 up to 2000, but nothing beyond that year. Keep in mind I have an automatic also.....

Is there another site I am missing? :hmm:

[alizbeemer]

Man I Really Wanna Hook My Car Up Any Suggestions I Want A Exhuast Intake Chip Everything The Whole 9 What Do U Think I Should Do

[vaio76109]

Man I Really Wanna Hook My Car Up Any Suggestions I Want A Exhuast Intake Chip Everything The Whole 9 What Do U Think I Should Do
IMO:
Exhaust: TSE3
Intake: Conforti as of now, altho the yet to be released UUC one is intriguing
Chip: Shark

[DaRK BMW]

DINAN only makes a few products that upgrade your BMW.
There are other parts to put on the car that make horsepower.
I personally did Buy DINAN, for 2 reasons.
the car is a steptronic(my wife's daily driver)
And two The Dealership Issue,
ALso RESALE value .I can turn in this BMW toward an M3 in the future, and the Dinan products installed are a compliment to the Car And it's selling Price.
Otherwise I would have to Return the car to stock(COSTLY) then return it.
Hope this helps in the decision process..
DaRK-

[JCz04Bimmer]

DINAN only makes a few products that upgrade your BMW.
There are other parts to put on the car that make horsepower.
I personally did Buy DINAN, for 2 reasons.
the car is a steptronic(my wife's daily driver)
And two The Dealership Issue,
ALso RESALE value .I can turn in this BMW toward an M3 in the future, and the Dinan products installed are a compliment to the Car And it's selling Price.
Otherwise I would have to Return the car to stock(COSTLY) then return it.
Hope this helps in the decision process..
DaRK-
Or you can always buy the car out when the lease is up or when you want to get rid of it. Sell it to a fellow fanatic who values the parts (plenty of us here) and then you're set. My car is LEASED and I've done all my mods the non-Dinan way... when I give the car back, whenever that is, I will buy the car out, put it up for sale privately and make some $$ hopefully. Overall, its a bit more a pain than just handing the dealership the keys but its worthwhile if you're all about modding. As for the car being steptronic and it being a daily driver... none of my parts have EVER EVER hindered its drivability. In fact, I'd argue that the downtime to install Dinan parts at a dealership is far greater than an independent shop that knows what its doing.

[Will ZCPM3]

.The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))

This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of this law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle makers brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:

“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name....” (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))."

[italia330i]

Looked at the same thing and it was a waste of money IMO. over $1000 for what 10 hp and 8 lbs tq. No thanks.

Based on my dyno results, I gained about 25 hp from my Dinan mods. :shhh:


200 RWHP on a step.

[3erdriver]

Dinan makes good products. But IMO they aren't worth it. The only viable reason that I see for getting them is the warranty issue...and even that isn't presented properly...the consumer is made to believe that the Dinan parts are covered under the BMW warranty...which isn't true...A Dinan BMW dealer will service it without problems but if you run into a problem caused by a Dinan part the dealer can still void your warranty.

Dinan products are WAY over priced as well. The Benfer Intake is the same intake as the dinan at a much cheaper price...go for that...there are exhausts that offer better sound and better gains that are cheaper or just as expensive as the Dinan, and IMO they look better...the Dinan exhaust looks like a stock exhaust with Dinan written on it...Plus their stuff doesn't give great gains...you can get better gains going elsewhere, basically Dinan is a toned down tuner, for someone who wants a little gain without the noise...The only thing I like about Dinan is their software...good stuff still a bit pricey but the software is good stuff...If you have the money and you want the subtlety of Dinan stuff go for, there's really nothing wrong (that I know of) with their products...but I just don't think they're worth it.

[gmhl10]

lol... thread is back from the dead. :P
i can't even begin to start on how many dinan or don't threads i've seen on this board.
Noobs should seriously learn to use the :search: feature.
and if someone tells me "i can't find any threads on dinan products" excuse... :slap:

btw... dinan sucks. take it from a former dinan 3 owner now parted out for BETTER stuff.

The warranty stuff is bullcrap.
It's kinda like how Christians scare you into joining them by saying you're going to hell.
You're being pulled into Dinan for fear of something unexpected happenning to your car and with their "misleading" advertising... people think they keep their warranty when it's just being replaced with theirs.
If some of these other aftermarket companies had bad products... they wouldn't be around for as long as they have.

[vaio76109]

Based on my dyno results, I gained about 25 hp from my Dinan mods. :shhh:


200 RWHP on a step.
Do you have before and after dynos on the same day and same dyno?
If not then the 2 dynos basically have no meaning versus each other.

[italia330i]

Do you have before and after dynos on the same day and same dyno?
If not then the 2 dynos basically have no meaning versus each other.

No meaning? You just lost your credibility.

[JCz04Bimmer]

No meaning? You just lost your credibility.
Um, he's right. Dyno's are basically useless unless they are subjected to scientific methods. Methods that include multiple cars, multiple runs, and multiple conditions and an average of it all to get a legit gain number.

A dyno for you may have yielded 25rwhp but the same mods on my car could yield 2hp. If the runs were done on different days, the humidity, air temperature, elevation, ANYTHING could have resulted in a portion of that gain. Unless the car is dyno'd, mods installed, then dyno'd again, comparisons between the two are pointless.

The fact that you don't know this means you just lost YOUR credibility.

[italia330i]

Do you have before and after dynos on the same day and same dyno?
If not then the 2 dynos basically have no meaning versus each other.

Further...

At a dyno day sponsored by the BMWCCA there were plenty of E46s that were run (including my car) and if you computed the HP numbers at the crank, considering the drivetrain loss (whether step or manual), the numbers turned out to be almost exactly what BMW published. That tells me that not only was the dyno accurate, but that BMW publishes an accurate stock HP number. Here is the thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=685480#post685480

So when my step puts out a RWHP number of about 200 (which evidently was more than a stock 6speed ZHP tested on the same day) and I make the standard conversion, (considering 20% driverain loss) I somehow came out with 25 more HP for my car (250hp at the crank) when compared to the published number (225hp).

Considering this, do you still think the dyno result had "no meaning?" Or do you really think my engine had 25 more HP from the factory than any other 330 when the other stock E46s tested that day were right on the published numbers?

I think it would be more BS if I came to this board and said, DAMN! my DINAN mods must have done nothing, but where did this 25 extra HP come from?

[italia330i]

The fact that you don't know this means you just lost YOUR credibility.


Feel free to respond to my last post.

[JCz04Bimmer]

I don't care how many cars were at the BMW CCA event. The fact still remains that unless you dyno'd YOUR car without mods and then YOUR car with mods on the same exact day the dyno results hold relatively minimal weight.

There are WAY too many factors that go into a dyno reading. For example, that ZHP might have been running relatively low oil. Perhaps he dyno'd it when the barometer was falling. Perhaps humidity was higher when the ZHP ran. Maybe before he got to the dyno he had been pushing the car hard. Or maybe your car was warmed up more than his was.

The bottom line is that there are way too many factor that go into hp readings to say that ONE run on ONE car indicates gains. I'm not saying you didn't gain power. You most definitely did. However, the statement that without before and after dyno's your measurements of gains are weakly founded irregardless of how many other cars were put on there. I know many people who have factory monsters that are unnaturally powerful and I also know plenty of people who have cars that are underpowered from the factory. Again, without a before dyno and after dyno of your car in EXACT SAME conditions (same day, same everything except for mods) and MULTIPLE runs (ie over 5 runs), they are just cool graphs to look at and keep ur fingers crossed that they're legit. But, scientifically speaking, who knows.

[italia330i]

I don't care how many cars were at the BMW CCA event. The fact still remains that unless you dyno'd YOUR car without mods and then YOUR car with mods on the same exact day the dyno results hold relatively minimal weight.

There are WAY too many factors that go into a dyno reading. For example, that ZHP might have been running relatively low oil. Perhaps he dyno'd it when the barometer was falling. Perhaps humidity was higher when the ZHP ran. Maybe before he got to the dyno he had been pushing the car hard. Or maybe your car was warmed up more than his was.

The bottom line is that there are way too many factor that go into hp readings to say that ONE run on ONE car indicates gains. I'm not saying you didn't gain power. You most definitely did. However, the statement that without before and after dyno's your measurements of gains are weakly founded irregardless of how many other cars were put on there. I know many people who have factory monsters that are unnaturally powerful and I also know plenty of people who have cars that are underpowered from the factory. Again, without a before dyno and after dyno of your car in EXACT SAME conditions (same day, same everything except for mods) and MULTIPLE runs (ie over 5 runs), they are just cool graphs to look at and keep ur fingers crossed that they're legit. But, scientifically speaking, who knows.

Trust me. I know the scientific method. I was a grant supported research scientist for five years before becoming a patent attorney.

Was the control perfect in this dyno run? No. Is it ever? No That being said. I think there is more to these reults then just a guy going out and dynoing his car for the first time. The fact that a number of cars hit there published numbers (the zhp hit 235 on the nose and and M3 hit 333) served, at the very least, as a better than average substitute internal control.

But really I am just tired of everyone saying that DINAN is a waste. Who makes a throttle body? What company has more experience and conducts more R&D on BMW aftermarket products other than DINAN? Alpina probably, but that would be it.
I go to the dealer and have no problem with service under warranty. I have more telling than not dyno results. And I am sure that is a lot more than these guys that make blanket comments like a bunch of sheep.

[gmhl10]

Now I know dyno runs aren't always right on the money, but a friend of mine dynoed his ZHP, put a dinan exhaust on, dynoed it again, and lost 4 hp.
This is out of 5 runs too.
I never dynoed my Dinan 3, but once I changed all the Dinan mods out to better ones, the more power difference was greatly felt.

Other than that... you two should chill.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Well whatever. To each's own. I just have a much higher level of skepticism when it comes to dyno-ing our cars. They are deceptive and often don't represent the true power that mods do or do not make.

As for Dinan being a waste. It is. Plenty of other companies, such as UUC, put plenty of R&D into their products. Companies like Technic/RennSport who are able to actually make productive software upgrades with real results do plenty of R&D. The thing that Dinan does well is packaging. They package it beautifully with our BMW's warranty. However, I can say that I have NEVER been given a problem with all the modifications I've done with my car at any dealership and have always been provided with warranty support. Naturally the parts that have been replaced are not BMW's responsibility but when you live 20minutes away from UUC Motorwerks (most of my parts are from them), its just as comforting. I know that if a part fails, I can go there, say hi to Rob and things will get taken care of. Then again, when you think about it, how often does a shock fail? Or how often does a cat-back exhaust fail? Truth is, they don't. And if they do, it likely isn't the part's fault alone.

Like I said a while ago, Dinan offers a piece of mind to people who are willing only to deal with the dealerships. I think that only Dinan's TB is a worthwhile part because they're the only ones that make it. This, however, is likely due in part to their exclusive rights to BMW technology directly. Then again, I would be willing to bet that a quasi-replica of the Dinan TB could be fabricated easily, produced to perform identically and for a fraction of the cost. Which, ultimately, is the story with Dinan. They make parts, some are good (like the TB) but their prices are just too steap to justify. At least for me.

[DaRK BMW]

YEAH gmhl10,
Dinan is crap right?..and your a professional car parts manufacturer? NOT.
Do you independently test all brands before you say things like this.
NOPE..I didn't think so.
The parts produced by all of the major brands are all good , some may be better than others, some will produce better dyno numbers.
Unless you have dyno sheets to prove your WORDS..they are Useless.
This comes down to YOUR opinion and nothing else.But,Take that with a grain of salt. Without proof , your statements look uneducated and actually really quite biased.Is there one good Brand?, But all else SUCK?
Is AC Schnitzer GOD to you But all else are Failures?
Oh, And no I do not have a Dinan logo on my ride.
I use many different companies to create the right package for ME..but I do not find the need to show all of the logo's for every brand that anyone can Purchase along with a BIG DINAN LOGO.
confused or what!?

[gmhl10]

YEAH gmhl10,
Dinan is crap right?..and your a professional car parts manufacturer? NOT.
Do you independently test all brands before you say things like this.
NOPE..I didn't think so.
The parts produced by all of the major brands are all good , some may be better than others, some will produce better dyno numbers.
Unless you have dyno sheets to prove your WORDS..they are Useless.
This comes down to YOUR opinion and nothing else.But,Take that with a grain of salt. Without proof , your statements look uneducated and actually really quite biased.Is there one good Brand?, But all else SUCK?
Is AC Schnitzer GOD to you But all else are Failures?
Oh, And no I do not have a Dinan logo on my ride.
I use many different companies to create the right package for ME..but I do not find the need to show all of the logo's for every brand that anyone can Purchase along with a BIG DINAN LOGO.
confused or what!?

:lmao:
I don't need to prove anything to you.
I just wrote that in MY experience when I used to have mostly all Dinan parts, the performance gains were minimal.
Did I say that all people who buy Dinan mods don't get gains? No, I didn't.
As for dynos... I just wrote above that my friend did the dyno and he lost 4hp and he barely felt a performance increase in daily driving.
So YES, I did see a dyno sheet.
Besides, you don't need to have dynos to feel the gains for yourself... not to mention... dynos CAN be inaccurate at times, even after 5 dyno runs.

But I think I've been modding my car long enough ($26K so far) to know more than you do about aftermarket mods you NOOB. So why don't you come back when you have a bit more experience with these products newbie.

BTW... you don't like my sig? tough sh!t.

[DaRK BMW]

YEAH,
I am a NooB
And you are the Pro At 26K$
Is That what you think!
I am sure you have done your research , and know what you are doing.
But, Do other BMW owners ADD up the amount they spent on their BMW, and equal that to Experience? I hope not
Sorry to piss you off so badly, and yet so easily!

[gmhl10]

YEAH,
I am a NooB
And you are the Pro At 26K$
Is That what you think!
I am sure you have done your research , and know what you are doing.
But, Do other BMW owners ADD up the amount they spent on their BMW, and equal that to Experience? I hope not
Sorry to piss you off so badly, and yet so easily!
Experience in having used the products... Yes, it does amount to that since I've changed things out a lot and not just Dinan mods.
That's what I mean by experience... not meaning experience in knowing more than others.

BTW...
It's like Charlie's (Yellowman) sig says:
"Always Learn From Other People's Mistakes ..."
If you don't want to... be my guest.

[DaRK BMW]

I don't want to make enemies
Have you done Plasma Ignition coils and Throttle body yet?
How about Hyper ground system and Hyper voltage system,Those along with an Optima yellow top battery really gave my 325 coupe some low end grunt that previously did not exhist.
Of course these mods along with all of the regularsCold Air intake.Exhaust, pulleys,iridium sparks,engine software, steptronic trans software(wife's daily driver), water wetter for the radiator some sticky rubber and a nice big fat magnet under the auto tranmission case for the redlines and such.
Do you have anything you can think of that I could do to my N/A 2.5?
Thanks
DaRK BMW

[DaRK BMW]

Oh Yeah
On the STRUTS??
How fast do you go,
At high speeds that spoiler might be flexing more than you think.Those things are for high speed stability for the lip.
DarK bmw

[gmhl10]

I don't want to make enemies
Have you done Plasma Ignition coils and Throttle body yet?
How about Hyper ground system and Hyper voltage system,Those along with an Optima yellow top battery really gave my 325 coupe some low end grunt that previously did not exhist.
Of course these mods along with all of the regularsCold Air intake.Exhaust, pulleys,iridium sparks,engine software, steptronic trans software(wife's daily driver), water wetter for the radiator some sticky rubber and a nice big fat magnet under the auto tranmission case for the redlines and such.
Do you have anything you can think of that I could do to my N/A 2.5?
Thanks
DaRK BMW

I don't either.
Let me apologize if my words came off harsh.

Anyway, I have the Dinan throttle body since I don't know of any other company that makes them for our cars.
Technik says they will come out with one... but they seem to be like ATP... "soon" is always what they say.
Anyway, in my opinion, the throttle body didn't do very much for my car.
Dinan says better throttle response, but I didn't get that feeling.
The only thing I noticed after putting that in was that the tach hovers around 1K rpm for a split sec before dropping back down to 500-600 rpm when you rev it.
I got exhaust, tranny soft, stage 3 engine soft, intake, exhaust too with the TB being my last horsepower performance mod, so I just feel kind of ripped off by Dinan.
I did feel a performance difference when I swapped out some of the Dinan stuff, but I wasn't sure if the TB helped much in the power increase.
I can't really think of any other NA mods you can do to raise the HP.
The only way is to go FI, because other NA mods than the ones you listed can cost you BIG bucks and may even cost more than FI.
You can do headers... but that'll take away from your low-end and add it to your high-end torque.
Supersprint can be VERY pricey, but considering what many others say... also very reliable.
I am more focused for car shows and aesthetics part of tuning than performance so I gotta sacrifice certain things like getting 19s instead of getting a faster 0-60 or 1/4 mile.
Kind of difficult to have the best of both worlds...

Oh Yeah
On the STRUTS??
How fast do you go,
At high speeds that spoiler might be flexing more than you think.Those things are for high speed stability for the lip.
DarK bmw
Oh... I rarely drive over 80 mph.
I've gotten enough tickets in my high school/college days and have learned my lesson.
But I will be putting the struts on the coming Saturday.
I've just come to the feeling that I like struts more than without.

[DaRK BMW]

Right ON
Thanks