My Tranny and SC, will they get along?

[///OSS]

Im in the final stages of my exterior work on the car... I have an appointment set in march for AA SC on my step 03' 325CI but as well Im open to sugeestions about other systems....

they mentioned that I might blow my tranny...Im not out to race or track it, I just want to have great acceleration and feel some pull with my car....and the occasional fun expressway bout here and there

do you guys think its worth SCing a 325CI? or should I just forget it, cuz the expense of replacing the tranny is a $3600 dollar fuc kup....

profesional opinions please!

Thanks!

[S2Krazy]

nope .. they will hate each other with passion .. and in the end one will die .. most likely the tranny :lmao:... learn to drive stick buddy

[///OSS]

lol, thanks for the input buddy...LOL and I do know how to drive stick meng...Ill take you with ma steppy right now buster...LOL J/K :lmao:

hey...im asking cuz I heard that Level 10 in jersey rebuilds the tranny to handle the hit of the SC... If I can do that to ensure it will do it then ill do it....its not that expensive... but i wanna hear more opinions about what will go, what will screw up.....will the engine handle it?


can i just lower the PSI rate of the SC to a more managable state for the tranny?


PRO OPINIONS!!!!!

AND PLZ DONT SAY....BUY AN M3!!!!!!!! im having much fun with this car!!!

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

I am guessing you have either a ZF 5hp19 or a GM5. The former has been used in Alpina B3 3.3 and B3 S up to about 305hp. The latter is rated at 360 or 390 lbs-ft depending on part number.

[Trends&Gadgets]

AA is a good kit but also take a look at the kits offered by ASA :thumbup:

[Luke WL.]

I am guessing you have either a ZF 5hp19 or a GM5. The former has been used in Alpina B3 3.3 and B3 S up to about 305hp. The latter is rated at 360 or 390 lbs-ft depending on part number.
My old tranny blew, get the Dinan software for the tranny BEFORE you put it in...I have been told that this will help when shifting under boost (not by Dinan) because it shifts faster... just a thought i would do it if I SC again.

[///OSS]

I am guessing you have either a ZF 5hp19 or a GM5. The former has been used in Alpina B3 3.3 and B3 S up to about 305hp. The latter is rated at 360 or 390 lbs-ft depending on part number.



How can i find out which tranny I have???

any easy way of knowing that info?

Thanks!

[BMWE46Fl]

damn does anyong know how expensive or hard it is to do a steptronic trannsmisson swap to a manual trannsmisson becuase if everyone keeps on saying that the transmisson will only hold 300 slow hp then i need to change mine or my car is never gonna work
:(

[kashif]

How can i find out which tranny I have???

any easy way of knowing that info?

Thanks!

I dont think you should have probs with your tranny.. Since you have 325. The transmission on my car is going. The fifth gear cant take hard accerleration or it wont shift. I have the ZF 5hp19 on my car, which has a less power rating. My tranny went because i have 330 ASA sk1, in addition i have headers + sports cats and full exhaust. Note a 330 with all those mods should be outputting torque loads any where between 400-440nm which is beyond the limits of what the ZF tranny can handle.

A supercharged 325(without any other mods) will still be in the region of 325-340nm. which should be fine, even with the ZF transmission.

You can find out which transmission you have by looking under your car.

[Casanova]

i have the AA, my tranny hasn't blown yet despite me tracking my car a couple of times. even taking low journeys lasting hours, it still holds up.

[sublimey]

Hi Guys, any idea how much hp or torque a SMG1 engine can withstand?

[///OSS]

Im still not correctly informed on what would be a good robust upgrade to this car....

if you had the finances to upgrde the car and wanted to do it right....whats the good combination withought it being riduculously expensive either....

AA is here in miami, so Im prolly going to go to that one....

what do I do with the tranny? I dont want manual!

should I just risk it and underpower the SC to make sure I wont damage the tranny? maybe set it ar 5.5 or 6 PSI instead?

I mean nobody talks about the tranny damage and so many SCs out there...is it that people with 325s do not SC? I already know of 3 people blowing their trannys so whats the answer to do this right from the initial install!!!

or am I treading uncharted territory?

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Do a little more search. These are my track records.

ASA SK1, 6.5psi, E46 325 with Steptronic. If this is not reliability, I don't know what is.

1. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=1960" target="_blank">California Speedway Aug 2003</a>
2. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=2075" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> Sept 2003</a>
3. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=2306" target="_blank">Laguna Seca Nov 2003</a>
4. <a href="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160335" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> Apr 2004</a>
5. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=2987" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> June 2004</a>
6. <a href="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191592" target="_blank">ThunderHill Aug 2004</a>
7. <a href="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=198258" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> Sept 2004</a>
8. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=3458" target="_blank">Willow Springs (Big Track)</span> Nov 2004</a>
9. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3672" target="_blank">Willow Springs (Big Track)</span> Jan 2005</a>

[///OSS]

Now THATS what i wanna hear...so you have yours set at 6.5psi, correct?... how would you rate the ASA against the AA, scince they are local to me, Im curious which one would be more viable...

at 6.5 what is your RWHP avarage increase?

currently I just have exaust and CAI....should I do tranny software upgrades? anything else you might recomend?

The car is a daily driver BTW, I just want to enhance the car for my own pleasure, not for track....


appreciate the help! :bow:





Do a little more search. These are my track records.

ASA SK1, 6.5psi, E46 325 with Steptronic. If this is not reliability, I don't know what is.

1. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=1960" target="_blank">California Speedway Aug 2003</a>
2. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=2075" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> Sept 2003</a>
3. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=2306" target="_blank">Laguna Seca Nov 2003</a>
4. <a href="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160335" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> Apr 2004</a>
5. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=2987" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> June 2004</a>
6. <a href="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191592" target="_blank">ThunderHill Aug 2004</a>
7. <a href="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=198258" target="_blank">Buttonwillow</span> Sept 2004</a>
8. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=3458" target="_blank">Willow Springs (Big Track)</span> Nov 2004</a>
9. <a href="http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3672" target="_blank">Willow Springs (Big Track)</span> Jan 2005</a>

[kashif]

Now THATS what i wanna hear...so you have yours set at 6.5psi, correct?... how would you rate the ASA against the AA, scince they are local to me, Im curious which one would be more viable...

at 6.5 what is your RWHP avarage increase?

currently I just have exaust and CAI....should I do tranny software upgrades? anything else you might recomend?

The car is a daily driver BTW, I just want to enhance the car for my own pleasure, not for track....


appreciate the help! :bow:

Personally i would recommend the ASA kit since its being used by all the big german tuners these days, among the biggest of them all Alpina even they use ASA. Even on the board here ASA has proven it self time after time, be it the track or your daily driving. No failures heard of till date.

Dude the transmission in the 325 or the 330 are the same. Your 325 shouldnt have any probs. It took a 3.0l motor with all the other mods i mentioned + plus a lead foot to get the tranny over its limits. A stock 330 outputs around 310NM which is pretty close to the figure of a supercharged 325 around 325-340nm, hence you should be fine. You could contact ESS to provide you with a software that reduces torque loads during shifts(they do claim that you wont even feel the difference), however i doubt you need it since you got a 2.5l engine.

[Casanova]

Hi Guys, any idea how much hp or torque a SMG1 engine can withstand?
smg is still a manual

[BMWE46Fl]

there is no tranny that will support 600whp+ is there? other then a manual
but can i go with a smg instead?
need to get a new tranny very soon becuase i do not want to drive mycar till i get the right tranny in there cuz it will just be a waste of a good tranny if i try to

-Jim

[///OSS]

exellent...can you give me a little more data over your preference on the ASA over the AA?

and if you were in my possition haveing AA locally, would you still get the ASA over it?


Thanks


Personally i would recommend the ASA kit since its being used by all the big german tuners these days, among the biggest of them all Alpina even they use ASA. Even on the board here ASA has proven it self time after time, be it the track or your daily driving. No failures heard of till date.

Dude the transmission in the 325 or the 330 are the same. Your 325 shouldnt have any probs. It took a 3.0l motor with all the other mods i mentioned + plus a lead foot to get the tranny over its limits. A stock 330 outputs around 310NM which is pretty close to the figure of a supercharged 325 around 325-340nm, hence you should be fine. You could contact ESS to provide you with a software that reduces torque loads during shifts(they do claim that you wont even feel the difference), however i doubt you need it since you got a 2.5l engine.

[kris6957]

i have the AA, my tranny hasn't blown yet despite me tracking my car a couple of times. even taking low journeys lasting hours, it still holds up.
How many miles have you put on your car since you supercharged it?

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Now THATS what i wanna hear...so you have yours set at 6.5psi, correct?...
Yes.

how would you rate the ASA against the AA, scince they are local to me, Im curious which one would be more viable...
No comments about AA. Have not driven a AA SC E46.

at 6.5 what is your RWHP avarage increase?
I hate to give out numbers. Because they vary from engine to engine, even comparing the same M54B25. Verdict is the ASA kit won't disappoint you.

currently I just have exaust and CAI....should I do tranny software upgrades? anything else you might recomend?
Some ASA folks have upgraded their headers for better flow. If you intend to drive it hard, engine oil cooler should be on your list. Technik Engineering has it for sale. Also get the Dinan transmission s/w.

And oh, I have logged over 20k miles already. At least 1500 miles are track miles.

[MrBlonde]

The BMW automatic gearbox will not live with even a moderately powerful engine (~290-300 bhp).

AA use Rotrex centrifugal superchargers. These are fine, however ASA units are superior in my opinion.

I think it's definitely worth supercharging your 325CI; that would be a nice daily driver. The automatic gearbox will limit you to either the Infinitas (ASA based) SK plus 180 BHP with 4.35 psi or SK I kit 240 BHP with 5.8 psi - note the reduced power levels of these kits due to the automatic gearbox option.

AA (Rotrex based) claim 310 BHP for the 323/325 kit with 8 psi boost.

As a comparison the Infinitas SK III kit which runs 8 psi offers 310 BHP. Obviously this kit is not compatible with the automatic tranny on your car.

Regarding swapping the automatic transmission for a manual transmission, this is not difficult swap, however quite a few components need to be changed and it' aint' cheap. Probably smarter to trade your car on a manual tranny 323. Of course if you can't bear to part with your baby, the tranny swap can be done.

My advice is to go with the manual transmission swap (or trade on a manual 323) and go with the highest spec Infinitas kit you can afford/justify! Of course money considerations might modify this path according to your tastes.

[kashif]

exellent...can you give me a little more data over your preference on the ASA over the AA?

and if you were in my possition haveing AA locally, would you still get the ASA over it?


Thanks

I aint going to comment over the AA kit. However the ASA has proven itself time and time again, be it the track or as a daily driver. I would definitely go ASA.

AA is local to you that maybe an advantage, But really either of these kits are so reliable that if installed properly you shouldnt have a prob. I aint even in the US, Mosselman is the kit thats sold locally here. However i still chose ASA over it. Your car, your choice :)

Lastly like i said you should have no probs running ASA at 6.5psi. Many of us here are running 330's at 6.5psi without a prob.

[///OSS]

Thanks for your time concerning the matter!..

I definitely want to stick with my step tranny and retrofit it with SSG paddle shift... not looking to have manual at all, but thanks for the suggestion...

so as I can see it...

best option for me is to run an ASA SKI set at 6.5 max or an AA set at 6.5 max...

does the ASA come with software?

should I get the Dinan Auto Tranny software?

so you think that my tranny will have no issues handling 240 to 260 HP no problem?

finances are not a consideration as I want the best decisions to be made withought limitations of the sort...


:thumbup:

The BMW automatic gearbox will not live with even a moderately powerful engine (~290-300 bhp).

AA use Rotrex centrifugal superchargers. These are fine, however ASA units are superior in my opinion.

I think it's definitely worth supercharging your 325CI; that would be a nice daily driver. The automatic gearbox will limit you to either the Infinitas (ASA based) SK plus 180 BHP with 4.35 psi or SK I kit 240 BHP with 5.8 psi - note the reduced power levels of these kits due to the automatic gearbox option.

AA (Rotrex based) claim 310 BHP for the 323/325 kit with 8 psi boost.

As a comparison the Infinitas SK III kit which runs 8 psi offers 310 BHP. Obviously this kit is not compatible with the automatic tranny on your car.

Regarding swapping the automatic transmission for a manual transmission, this is not difficult swap, however quite a few components need to be changed and it' aint' cheap. Probably smarter to trade your car on a manual tranny 323. Of course if you can't bear to part with your baby, the tranny swap can be done.

My advice is to go with the manual transmission swap (or trade on a manual 323) and go with the highest spec Infinitas kit you can afford/justify! Of course money considerations might modify this path according to your tastes.

[///OSS]

I aint going to comment over the AA kit. However the ASA has proven itself time and time again, be it the track or as a daily driver. I would definitely go ASA.

AA is local to you that maybe an advantage, But really either of these kits are so reliable that if installed properly you shouldnt have a prob. I aint even in the US, Mosselman is the kit thats sold locally here. However i still chose ASA over it. Your car, your choice :)

Lastly like i said you should have no probs running ASA at 6.5psi. Many of us here are running 330's at 6.5psi without a prob.


EXELLENT

ASA option seriously noted... Im sure AA wont turn their backs on me if I walk in there with the ASA kit to install...

what woul dbe the proper config for my car? get the Sk+ and install the intercooler and up the PSI to 5.5 or 6.5? or I can only do that with the SK1? I really like the intake on the SK+ is that showing up with all their kits?

[Casanova]

How many miles have you put on your car since you supercharged it?
I've put about 2000 miles on it.


Otherside:
the AA is set at 8psi, so I don't know why you would even think of running it at 6.5psi - you won't come even close to the expected gains.
I'm running it at 8psi and have no problems with the step tranny.

[///OSS]

I've put about 2000 miles on it.


Otherside:
the AA is set at 8psi, so I don't know why you would even think of running it at 6.5psi - you won't come even close to the expected gains.
I'm running it at 8psi and have no problems with the step tranny.


to sacrifice 30 40 horses for the sake of safety towards the inadequate step tranny for that SC sounds more logical to me for the longevity of the car...im not out to race and fu ck around...I just want my 325CI to give me some nice pull on those expressway curves and smack that sh it hard on the turnpike and have even more fun with my car....the occasional fun skirmish is ok amongst friends but thats that

if the aa sucks real bad at 7 or 6.5 and it becomes pointless then obviously i need to reevaluate the tranny issue....i want the gains to be within tolerance and never exeede the trannys limits

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be asking the same questions in a circle. I hope one of these notes hit the right nail.

1. It's not the psi that kills the transmission or engine. It is the efficiency of the compressor unit. The common measure is adiabatic efficiency. Also, compare the compressor maps from Rotrex and ASA. I will spare you the technical details. You can have a compressor with 15psi boost but if the adiabatic efficiency is 40%, then there's really nothing to comment on. ASA compressor has a peak adiabatic efficiency of 82%. That, from a professional engineer's opinion, is excellent. In fact anything in the 70~78% range is good.

2. BMW transmission can handle 300hp. Period.

3. Dinan transmission s/w improves the shifting points. It does not protect the transmission or anything. BMW's GS20 program already have a back up program to protect the transmission.

4. The SK + is to cater to a certain slice of the market that wants a bit of 'umph" and doesn't want to complicate the installation process. I am guessing you belong to the SK + sector. Adding an intercooler to the SK+ sort of defeats the purpose of buying a SK +.

5. Having any supercharger kit is a huge responsibility. More so if you track it. I have to say this because I realize a lot of people tend to see the kit as one of those accessories which they slap on and forget it. The SC kit is a complex system. I don't have to sugarcoat any part of this. My excellent track record is not a result of mindless abuse on the track. But a result of me taking care of the system. If you have the fear of things falling apart, or fear of getting your hands dirty, then you are probably not ready. The reliability of the SC kit comes from the hardware, proper installation and you, as a driver and caretaker of the kit.

[Casanova]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be asking the same questions in a circle. I hope one of these notes hit the right nail.

1. It's not the psi that kills the transmission or engine. It is the efficiency of the compressor unit. The common measure is adiabatic efficiency. Also, compare the compressor maps from Rotrex and ASA. I will spare you the technical details. You can have a compressor with 15psi boost but if the adiabatic efficiency is 40%, then there's really nothing to comment on. ASA compressor has a peak adiabatic efficiency of 82%. That, from a professional engineer's opinion, is excellent. In fact anything in the 70~78% range is good.

2. BMW transmission can handle 300hp. Period.

3. Dinan transmission s/w improves the shifting points. It does not protect the transmission or anything. BMW's GS20 program already have a back up program to protect the transmission.

4. The SK + is to cater to a certain slice of the market that wants a bit of 'umph" and doesn't want to complicate the installation process. I am guessing you belong to the SK + sector. Adding an intercooler to the SK+ sort of defeats the purpose of buying a SK +.

5. Having any supercharger kit is a huge responsibility. More so if you track it. I have to say this because I realize a lot of people tend to see the kit as one of those accessories which they slap on and forget it. The SC kit is a complex system. I don't have to sugarcoat any part of this. My excellent track record is not a result of mindless abuse on the track. But a result of me taking care of the system. If you have the fear of things falling apart, or fear of getting your hands dirty, then you are probably not ready. The reliability of the SC kit comes from the hardware, proper installation and you, as a driver and caretaker of the kit.

with that in mind, both AA and ASA SKI for a 325 doesn't exceed the 300hp mark (AA may claim more than 300hp but I've yet to see a real dyno chart). and your(otherside) point about psi is completely redundant. I'll admit that ASA does make a better kit, but the reasons you state for not getting an AA kit don't make sense to me.

[///ALANNA]

1

[///OSS]

good.. thanks for that correction... obviously im not an expert of any sort like yourself, but resposibility and the need to get the proper info to take care of the system as much as I take care of the car, are equaly as important to me...

I might sound redundant but I wasnt aware of the PSI not really making much of a difference until you mentioned it... so theres still doubts in my mind about certain factors and Ill continue to pop them up until I see clearly...Im sure you did the same as you were learning the info and researching...

as far as the SK+ is concerned...would you buy a 4000 charger that give you a little umph? novice or not, I want to make the right choices... 6000 for the one that is more tailored to really give me a nice noticable boost sounds much more appetizing...

Car will be a daily driver but will mostly sit with occasional use....

other than standard routine oil changes and sparkplug changes...what do you mean by properly taking care of a SC?

thanks for your paitience and time...

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

with that in mind, both AA and ASA SKI for a 325 doesn't exceed the 300hp mark (AA may claim more than 300hp but I've yet to see a real dyno chart). and your(otherside) point about psi is completely redundant. I'll admit that ASA does make a better kit, but the reasons you state for not getting an AA kit don't make sense to me.

Kevin, my point is not about the PSI but on the adiabatic efficiency. This is the technical approach at looking at a compressor. That's what almost 10 years of engineering experiences taught me. Adiabatic efficiency is the standardized measure for a compressor, like it or not. This is a notion I'd like to help cultivate. At the end of the day, we are looking at the work produced by a compressor, and adiabatic efficiency is part of the computation. A less efficient compressor will require a higher boost to produce the same work. This statement is backed up by any theoretical or applied thermodynamics publications.

Throughout my posts here, there are no references or connotations for not getting or trying the AA kit. What they do or sell is really not my business. I am just comparing compressors as a engineered hardware that composed of planetary gears, bearings, impellers and the fluid dynamics and thermodynamics that are involved when the compressors start spinning. That's it.

Even if AA is selling both TM-12 and C-30/38 compressors, I will still post the same content.

[Casanova]

sorry for being harsh earlier, had a bad day....

anyways, based on your needs I think the ASA would be a better choice. But since you live much closer to AA, I think if there were any problems it'd be easier to go there for a fix then to have to get phone or email support from elsewhere.

[///OSS]

Well after reading all this, I am obviously seriously looking at the ASA
if the unit is more efficient, then obviously it doesnt have to work as hard at producing the desired gains hence less stress to the rest of the system...(am I correct in thinking that?)

I heard AA installed ASA systems irregardless so its not like their going to just leave me hanging in the instance that something goes wrong...

so the SK+ is their newest unit and it seems like it has a very interesting intake system.. not that looks matter, but is the SK1 including that new intake design?