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CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-15-2005, 02:08 PM
HI TO ALL

we have completed initial production of our new CSL trunk lid to fitall E46 coupe cars.

It is 100% carbon fibre , pre preg , and will fit onto factory hinges and locks .These will each be individually hand made , not production line / factory grade . They will be US made , not far east ; A1 quality

Weight is 5.5 lbs !

price to USA customers will be $1040 us dollars shipped , UK and europe customers will be £720 + LOCAL UK delivery .

If any memebers are up for a group buy , let us know , we would need say 6 orders but these can be worlwide , not just from same country .

all the best

Lexie330ci
02-15-2005, 02:19 PM
can u post more pics of ur car :)

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-15-2005, 02:21 PM
hi Lexie

which car , I have several :shhh: is it the lambo one in my signature ?

Lexie330ci
02-15-2005, 02:39 PM
hi Lexie

which car , I have several :shhh: is it the lambo one in my signature ?

yes :)

PS323CI
02-15-2005, 02:43 PM
How the fitment????

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-15-2005, 02:53 PM
hi

this car will be appearing in next issue of Performance BMW magazine ( uk)

the car is now for sale if anyone interested please PM me ; full spec and more images can be seen on our site at http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk/ongoing-project-cars14.shtml

Notice the lambo door installation that actually allows you to enter your car without doing backflips !!

i have more good images taken for magazine but are too large for forum , will downsize later

regards to all

PS have you seen our post for new full carbon CSL trunk , 100% autoclave £1020 dollars ?

nuggz35
02-15-2005, 03:33 PM
HI TO ALL

we have completed initial production of our new CSL trunk lid to fitall E46 coupe cars.

It is 100% carbon fibre , pre preg , and will fit onto factory hinges and locks .These will each be individually hand made , not production line / factory grade . They will be US made , not far east ; A1 quality

Weight is 5.5 lbs !

price to USA customers will be $1040 us dollars shipped , UK and europe customers will be £720 + LOCAL UK delivery .

If any memebers are up for a group buy , let us know , we would need say 6 orders but these can be worlwide , not just from same country .

all the best


More pics of thr bootlid please.. Maybe on a car, seeing you are saying fitment is great. Also lets see how the lip looks, you cant see them in these pics. If everythng looks good, sign me up on the GB.

03 Dinan 3
02-15-2005, 07:13 PM
This looks really nice!
Can you post more pics.
Does it come with the toolkit?
What will the price be if we have 6 people?

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 04:00 AM
hi 03 ..cool looking car you got there !

please give me e mail address and i will get more pics over to you in high res .
Regarding group buy , i would like to try for 10% off with 6 orders ....not too much but please bear in mind we are about$700 dollars cheaper than other comparable build quality trunk lids in the first place .

not sure if we are doing the toolkit , will find out .

regards

roy

VMRWheels
02-16-2005, 04:21 AM
full autoclave... is the hotness :)

If this one fits as well as I think it might fit, then we have a winner here!

lee330sport
02-16-2005, 04:51 AM
Hi Roy,

Are the carbon bootlids ready to fit or do they need paint or laquer?

Cheers

Beach_Bum
02-16-2005, 02:49 PM
please give me e mail address and i will get more pics over to you in high res

Please send pics to jdemarco@sleiman.com

This fits E46 M3 correct? :thumbup:

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 02:55 PM
HI TO ALL , thanks for all the replies .

I am awaiting better images , for time being please refer to our site page at http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk/carbon-f-e46-body-styling.shtml , towards bottom of page .

more to follow soon

ok answers :
1. yes will fit M3 E46
2. yes , full 100% pre preg autoclave work , all stages are hand made ,not machine
3. orders will take aprox 5 weks to complete


let me know if anything else

regards

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 03:06 PM
HI TO ALL , thanks for all the replies .

I am awaiting better images , for time being please refer to our site page at http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk/carbon-f-e46-body-styling.shtml , towards bottom of page .

more to follow soon

ok answers :
1. yes will fit M3 E46
2. yes , full 100% pre preg autoclave work , all stages are hand made ,not machine
3. orders will take aprox 5 weks to complete


let me know if anything else

regards


hello again


found some more images :

nuggz35
02-16-2005, 03:22 PM
hello again


found some more images :


I like what I see so far. Before I commit 100% to a GB, lets get all of the Q's answered. If everything sounds good after that, then


1. Nuggz35

Beach_Bum
02-16-2005, 03:25 PM
I like what I see so far. Before I commit 100% to a GB, lets get all of the Q's answered. If everything sounds good after that, then


1. Nuggz35


Same here, I'd just like to see some pics on a car. Especially close-ups of the usual problem areas. If it all checks out

1. Nuggz35
2. Jota187

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 03:26 PM
I like what I see so far. Before I commit 100% to a GB, lets get all of the Q's answered. If everything sounds good after that, then


1. Nuggz35


any more questions ??

also remember this item is being made and shipped from the US , I would imagine this would give our US customers more peace of mind .

roy

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 03:32 PM
any more questions ??

also remember this item is being made and shipped from the US , I would imagine this would give our US customers more peace of mind .

roy

what fit issues have you guys heard of in te past then ?

The first one should be on the car in say 3 weeks , i can then post up pics no problem . This will of course delay any orders ....
alternatively you can take us at our reputation , along with a written g'tee with each order that we will put right any fit / finish issues you may have .
You will not have any such issues .........Lets just say the manufacturer is very well known in the racing world ...:)

regards

nuggz35
02-16-2005, 03:40 PM
any more questions ??

also remember this item is being made and shipped from the US , I would imagine this would give our US customers more peace of mind .

roy


I love that it is made in the US. There is a couple of perks to that, shpping is cheaper, and if there is any problems it can be handled quicker. Well as stated in the post before this one, we want lots of pics of this installed, That way we can see if fitment is right, and gaps if any(hopefully not) Now I know this is CF, is there any painting or laquer required? Also does the toolkit kit fit in? If anyone has any other questions that have not been asked, please chime in.

nuggz35
02-16-2005, 03:41 PM
what fit issues have you guys heard of in te past then ?

The first one should be on the car in say 3 weeks , i can then post up pics no problem . This will of course delay any orders ....
alternatively you can take us at our reputation , along with a written g'tee with each order that we will put right any fit / finish issues you may have .
You will not have any such issues .........Lets just say the manufacturer is very well known in the racing world ...:)

regards



There has been a lot of gap issues and allignment issues.(higher on one side)

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 03:47 PM
ok thanks guys

the images you see are the prototype , but I think final version will be 99% same .

regarding toolkit ...not sure yet and will get back to you on it .

We are using a new and genuine oem factory CSL lid as the mold , so fitment will be near as damn it . :woot:

remember tho ' whatever any manufacturer tells you , you will never get 100% as good a fit as oem BMW , they hold the master tools and molds after all ...but we can get to 97% I reckon ....just being straight about the facts as usual :hi:

thanks all

nuggz35
02-16-2005, 03:56 PM
ok thanks guys

the images you see are the prototype , but I think final version will be 99% same .

regarding toolkit ...not sure yet and will get back to you on it .

We are using a new and genuine oem factory CSL lid as the mold , so fitment will be near as damn it . :woot:

remember tho ' whatever any manufacturer tells you , you will never get 100% as good a fit as oem BMW , they hold the master tools and molds after all ...but we can get to 97% I reckon ....just being straight about the facts as usual :hi:

thanks all


Well when you get the first one on in 3 weeks, We will see how fitment is. Not trying to sound like an Arse but everyone says that firment is great for aftermarket but everyone knows on this board that that is not the case after you see pics all the time. I understand that it will not be 100% OEM, but the closer to that 100% the better.

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 03:57 PM
any more questions ??

also remember this item is being made and shipped from the US , I would imagine this would give our US customers more peace of mind .

roy

also we got some brand new M3 sized Genuine AC Schnitzer type two racing 3 piece wheels , still boxed but in 17 INCH ...... so better handling ok !! :craig: ..I know you cruisers all need wheels as big as my house , but surely one of you out there wants a set of wheels that look good AND give better handling :bawling:

will fit E36 M3 , all other e36 and most e46 non M3 cars .

Uk retail is £2650 , or about $4940 usdollars .....come on gimme offers :bow:

UK CUSTOMERS offers over £1750 please , USA offers over $3400 + shipping ( usa customers not liable to our sales tax so you get better deal :thumbup: at least compared to UK )

come on you know it makes sense .......

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-16-2005, 03:58 PM
ok , that is all fair enough , we will post up images asap guys .

now about these damned wheels .... :lmao:

nuggz35
02-16-2005, 04:07 PM
ok , that is all fair enough , we will post up images asap guys .

now about these damned wheels .... :lmao:



THANK YOU..

seedster2
02-16-2005, 07:25 PM
you can add my name to the list after seeing some cloe-ups of the trunk mounted.


neil

lee330sport
02-17-2005, 03:30 AM
When i see the pics aslong as there ok i might go for it.

Can it be put staight on in CF or will it need painting? ie laquer.

And can you do a CF bonnet for the facelift.

VMRWheels
02-17-2005, 03:39 AM
If its autoclave and the prototype fit, there will not be any fitment issues short of human errors during production... Unlike wet layup where every finished piece will fit differently, autoclave is the best sh*t out there :)

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-17-2005, 01:26 PM
thanks for the back up Velocity , good to see someone else who knows their carbon ..so much b s out there .

Lee , yes the trunk will fit straight on , pre finished and laquered . Yes we also do carbon hoods , your options are ;
1. carbon laminate over grp base c/with carbon grilles , power hump and 4 x working air vents normally around £1200 , call me for your price mate
2. carbon laminate in oem factory shape £ 600.00 c/with carbon grilles
3. full prepreg 100% carbon hood £1850 , can insert GTR type vents for approx extra £200 .

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-17-2005, 01:29 PM
lee , tried to call you but no answer , i have one of the carbon hoods pictured above in stock that you can have very cheap , call me when you can to discuss

regards

lee330sport
02-18-2005, 03:42 AM
Email sent :thumbup:

Is the one in the pic CF or painted black?

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-18-2005, 05:10 AM
hi

the one in photo is carbon fibre , painted black ( sacrilage if you ask me !)

Echo3
02-21-2005, 06:30 PM
are you also gonna sell the CSL Trunk lid...without the CF?

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-22-2005, 07:16 AM
hi echo !

we offer the csl lid in grp also , £450

regards

PS carbon is soooo much sexier tho ' ...:-)

lee330sport
02-22-2005, 07:38 AM
Roy,

If the bonnet your sending me doesnt fit, can you get a standard CF one for the facelift coupe?

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-22-2005, 12:55 PM
Roy,

If the bonnet your sending me doesnt fit, can you get a standard CF one for the facelift coupe?


hi lee

yes we can , but only in custom made pre preg full carbon ....approx £1400
thanx R

skeemr4
02-23-2005, 07:18 AM
Just a question....but what is GRP??? I'm interested in the CSL Trunk lid, but will be painting it Alpine White, so I wont really need carbon fiber.

nuggz35
02-23-2005, 07:43 AM
Just a question....but what is GRP??? I'm interested in the CSL Trunk lid, but will be painting it Alpine White, so I wont really need carbon fiber.


You can paint over the CF. Weight reduction is what you will get from the CSL bootlid.

skeemr4
02-23-2005, 10:10 PM
still wonderin what grp is though....

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-24-2005, 12:25 PM
Glass Reinforced Plastic ......

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-25-2005, 02:20 PM
good day to all all !
thought you may want to see images of a100% pre preg E36 trunk lid we just finished as well as seat backs to get idea of our quality .

The customer specifically asked the trunk have no circular indent for the BMW roundel badge ......

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-25-2005, 02:21 PM
seat backs in full carbon

iLLM3
02-25-2005, 02:26 PM
My god you guys have sick stuff, how about a nice sponsorship :thumbup: Im doing major work ont he car and basically need everything CF, full interior door panels and roof :thumbup:

RVakharia
02-25-2005, 02:34 PM
My god you guys have sick stuff, how about a nice sponsorship :thumbup: Im doing major work ont he car and basically need everything CF, full <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.************.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=24&k=interior%20door" ***********="window.status='interior door'; return true;" **********="window.status=''; return true;">interior door</a> panels and roof :thumbup:


You're always looking for a sponsorship aren't you...? :P :craig:

m1r
02-25-2005, 02:43 PM
yes :)

Sig is lookin good!

iLLM3
02-25-2005, 02:59 PM
You're always looking for a sponsorship aren't you...? :P :craig:


Yo man you would be too if you were going through the project i am hahaha :thumbup: :shhh:

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-26-2005, 09:20 AM
i wish I could sponsor you all guys .....but i am just too poor ; until you all start buying more from me that is ....

regards

nuggz35
02-26-2005, 10:33 AM
Looks great, now just that E46 CSL bootlid has to come out right. Cant wait to see it.

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-26-2005, 10:37 AM
3 weeks and counting .......

iLLM3
02-27-2005, 02:44 AM
i wish I could sponsor you all guys .....but i am just too poor ; until you all start buying more from me that is ....

regards


LOL its all good, what other products do you have or can you get, CSL roof, CF interior door panels and etc. :dunno: :thumbup:

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-27-2005, 10:04 AM
we also have a thin real carbon skin that you can bond over the metal surface of your roof ...not quite the same as original csl of course but a good aproximation , at around $500 . Finished effect depends on time and care taken on the fitting . we supply a carbon "bead " to finish off the two ends where the sheet meets the front and rear windscreens .

If you check our site you will see we already do carbon interior door panels and a host of other products cf . If its not on there , ask and we will make it for you .

regards

Joey325i
02-27-2005, 01:14 PM
any news on the toolkit? thanks :)

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
02-28-2005, 04:41 AM
,,,,not sure on the toolkit; if it is part of the CSL trunk as original ( cant remember ) then probably I will have to check further ...

Smoltz
02-28-2005, 10:21 AM
,,,,not sure on the toolkit; if it is part of the CSL trunk as original ( cant remember ) then probably I will have to check further ...

CSL Trunk doesnt have toolkit.

Adam

greengiantjl
03-08-2005, 05:29 PM
anymore pic?

I am very interested in the CSL Bootlid.
Can you re-use the parts from your old trunck, or do you have to get new parts (eg. new trunck tail lights)?

Mafia_R7
03-08-2005, 05:50 PM
Glass Reinforced Plastic ......

How much is the GRP, CSL trunk lid in USD and also is it expensive to ship it to Singapore?

Regards
Barry

lee330sport
03-09-2005, 03:10 AM
Roy has anyone bought one yet or do you need a car to fit one on :thumbup:

Mafia_R7
03-11-2005, 02:38 PM
Any updates?

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
03-11-2005, 02:40 PM
hi

no updates yet , sorry guys , we are just soooo busy , will get back to you end of next week ,. we are working on it ...

regards to all

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
03-21-2005, 03:50 AM
hi to all

sorry we have not posted in a while , been sooo busy .

anyway , our CSL 100 % cf trunk is not ready yet :( ; but meanwhile thought you may like to see another trubk lid we have available now by VORSTEINER , we have tried one and the fit is GOOD ! take a look at the pics see what you all think .

Prices ,for now , inc door to door shipping are :

US customers GRP $820 us dollars
Carbon fibre $ 1160

Europe GRP £680 ( aprox 950 euro )
carbon £ 920 ( aprx 1288 euro )


the above europe prices are INCLUDING import vat and duties calculated at 18.5% of cost + delivery as required by law .

Also available are hoods in GTR style , double sided real carbon and CSL front bumpers and splitters . let me know if you want prices

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
03-30-2005, 04:15 AM
- regarding the csl trunks , we now also carry Vorsteiner carbon and GRP trunk lids . We have both the carbon and GRP versions on order for customers , so when we fit them we will take photos so you all can see .

- regarding our full pre preg csl trunks , these are still in production , a little delayed due to a load of other orders we have had in lately . We are also now making a CSL style trunk in pre preg for the M3 CONVERTIBLE , in fact this will probably be ready first .

regards to all

skeemr4
03-30-2005, 07:08 AM
whats the availability of the Vorsteiner Trunks GRP?

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
03-30-2005, 07:20 AM
the vorsteiners are available for delivery , about 5 days if shipping to USA , or 8 to europe .

thanks

skeemr4
03-30-2005, 07:51 AM
check PM

TaZaM3
03-30-2005, 01:15 PM
I see you used my pics for your resale purposes without even asking.

I bought my hood and bumper from Carrozzeria Design which was made by Vorsteiner. My trunk was not made by Vorsteiner or CA Automotive.

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
03-30-2005, 01:32 PM
HI ACS 330i

apologies for any confusion here , as the pics posted up were sent to us by the manufacturer and we are told they are of the Vorsteiner product , who I believe made the parts for Carrozzeria .

Please forgive us if we have inadvertenly used images without permission , we have actually been asked to remove these by Vorsteiner now due to this very issue . I will now do so and then post up alternate images of what are also actual Vorsteiner products .

thanks

roy

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
03-30-2005, 01:37 PM
HI ACS 330i

apologies for any confusion here , as the pics posted up were sent to us by the manufacturer and we are told they are of the Vorsteiner product , who I believe made the parts for Carrozzeria .

Please forgive us if we have inadvertenly used images without permission , we have actually been asked to remove these by Vorsteiner now due to this very issue . I will now do so and then post up alternate images of what are also actual Vorsteiner products .

thanks

roy



hi again

it seems we cannot delete the images , i can find no "edit" facility on the post , if any of you could kindly let us know how to remove the image we will do so .

meanwhile here are a few more images

540is
04-11-2005, 08:10 AM
hi again

it seems we cannot delete the images , i can find no "edit" facility on the post , if any of you could kindly let us know how to remove the image we will do so .

meanwhile here are a few more images

same for E39 would be awesome :-)

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
04-11-2005, 08:51 AM
hi 540i

if you check the m5board.com forum , you will see we have already announced plans to make a csl trunk for the E39 :craig:

Please e mail or pm me if you require more details .
regards
roy

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
05-17-2005, 07:02 AM
hi

here are some fitted images at last , I think you will agree the fit is as good as oem !!

Available now for delivery

E46SEAN323i
05-18-2005, 05:48 AM
how much does an OEM trunk weigh?

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
05-18-2005, 06:13 AM
aprox 16 kg

540is
05-18-2005, 07:48 AM
That Lid is really cool !

The 330i
05-18-2005, 10:58 AM
Dear 550 Nm,

hi

here are some fitted images at last , I think you will agree the fit is as good as oem !!

Available now for delivery

Please tell me you have a CSL-Style bootlid for a saloon.

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
05-18-2005, 04:06 PM
Dear 550 Nm,



Please tell me you have a CSL-Style bootlid for a saloon.

hI 330

Vorsteiner will be bringing out sedan trunks hoods etc very soon we are told ...no time given yet but we will announce asap .

regards

roy

evm3
05-19-2005, 06:10 PM
regarding our full pre preg csl trunks , these are still in production , a little delayed due to a load of other orders we have had in lately . We are also now making a CSL style trunk in pre preg for the M3 CONVERTIBLE , in fact this will probably be ready first .


Hey hook me up>
I want a csl trunk for m vert 2004 m3 asap!
Still waiting for my hood price request thou.

Thanks in advance

Evm3

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
05-20-2005, 02:49 PM
regarding our full pre preg csl trunks , these are still in production , a little delayed due to a load of other orders we have had in lately . We are also now making a CSL style trunk in pre preg for the M3 CONVERTIBLE , in fact this will probably be ready first .


Hey hook me up>
I want a csl trunk for m vert 2004 m3 asap!
Still waiting for my hood price request thou.

Thanks in advance

Evm3

hi Evm3 , sorry if I missed a post , please repeat the hood request and I will reply soonest .

The csl trunks for the verts will all be hand made in pre preg , do you wish to place an order ? Cost will be around $1000 usd ?

regards

devGOD
05-20-2005, 05:46 PM
$1040 shipped hmm tempting

evm3
05-20-2005, 06:24 PM
hi Evm3 , sorry if I missed a post , please repeat the hood request and I will reply soonest .

The csl trunks for the verts will all be hand made in pre preg , do you wish to place an order ? Cost will be around $1000 usd ?

regards

Yes i want to order one asap!
I also want a Vor. glass hood with silver cf vents with a rain catch
How fast can they get shipped.
i have been screwed recently from telling me next week going on several weeks and months. I will not name names yet! :rolleyes:

thanks

malakia12
05-20-2005, 07:14 PM
sorry to ask the same question again, but I just want to make sure.........this trunk will fit all e46 coupes? And the price is $1040 USD shipped?

Also, how much for the Vorsteiner vented hood? Will that fit a non-M coupe, or is that only for M3's?

thank you for your time

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
05-21-2005, 07:49 AM
sorry to ask the same question again, but I just want to make sure.........this trunk will fit all e46 coupes? And the price is $1040 USD shipped?

Also, how much for the Vorsteiner vented hood? Will that fit a non-M coupe, or is that only for M3's?

thank you for your time

hi guys

Just to clarify matters again :

1. Vorsteiner products only available for M3 coupe fitment at the moment , not sedan or convertible .
2. having said the above , the Vorsteiner hoods will fit the coupes well with minor adjustment to front wings / fenders .We have seen thi sdone and the finish is oem .
3. We are CUSTOM building full prepreg hand made carbon CSL style trunk lids for the convertible cars .
4. the Vorsteiner CSL trunks will fit either M3 or non M3 coupe cars

Please PM me your orders and details and I will reply with fixed quotes soonest . When you are happy with the quote we will ask for payment .

Regarding delivery times ( I think i can guess who you mean ..:) any Vorsteiner orders going to the USA / Canade will normally be delivered to you with 2weeks max of payment .

However the custom pre preg orders will take longer no question about it , anything up to 6 - 8 weeks as we have quite a few orders on just now .

regards

roy

evm3
05-21-2005, 07:53 AM
hi guys

Just to clarify matters again :

1. Vorsteiner products only available for M3 coupe fitment at the moment , not sedan or convertible .
2. having said the above , the Vorsteiner hoods will fit the coupes well with minor adjustment to front wings / fenders .We have seen thi sdone and the finish is oem .
3. We are CUSTOM building full prepreg hand made carbon CSL style trunk lids for the convertible cars .
4. the Vorsteiner CSL trunks will fit either M3 or non M3 coupe cars

Please PM me your orders and details and I will reply with fixed quotes soonest . When you are happy with the quote we will ask for payment .

Regarding delivery times ( I think i can guess who you mean ..:) any Vorsteiner orders going to the USA / Canade will normally be delivered to you with 2weeks max of payment .

However the custom pre preg orders will take longer no question about it , anything up to 6 - 8 weeks as we have quite a few orders on just now .

regards

roy


Thanks for the clarification and lead time.

platnumn
07-01-2005, 12:24 AM
Will the front bumper fit an e46 coupe, non-M3, facelifted or not?

This is the clarification I need, thanks!

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
07-01-2005, 05:40 AM
the front bumper is designed for the M3 at the moment , it can be made to fit coupe but not recommended .
Coupe version out soon

CA AUTOMOTIVE UK
08-18-2005, 11:49 AM
hi
you may have read our previuos posts regarding our plans to be first custom carbon fibre manufacturer to release a 100% pre preg carbon fibre CSL style trunk for CONVERTIBLE E46 models ...well we are nearly there , as far as I know we are first to reach full production ,not just prototype ( i stand to be corrected )

We are laying up the first carbon fibre version now , meanwhile below are some images of the finished primary mold , so you can see the general shape . More pics soon