Supercharger Camshafts for M52TU and M54 Engines

[samir@technik]

http://www.technikpower.com/news/092205.htm

[668Ci]

http://www.technikpower.com/news/092205.htm
Will the gains be similar on the 2.5L?

[samir@technik]

In terms of % gain, I would say yes.

[GBX330ci]

Sick gains. Would you recommending running them without headers?

[samir@technik]

Sick gains. Would you recommending running them without headers?

Not really. You can definitely get away with it, but adding headers is like popping a cork on these cars...really frees up a major bottleneck in the exhaust system. The stock cams and manifolds are the main restriction once you reach 300WHP.

[drhendrix]

How much installed?

How long will my car be out of commission?

Do you also do cats? Since my headers went in, my car smells pretty bad.

How much for cats installed?

[samir@technik]

How much installed?

We charge 7 hours for install @ $100/hour. We use the factory BMW camshaft tools (there are 6 of them), so you can trust the job is done right.

How long will my car be out of commission?

Can be done in 1 day if dropped off in the morning.

Do you also do cats? Since my headers went in, my car smells pretty bad.?

We don't sell cats, but there's a muffler shop nearby that can weld in a set of magnaflow cats for you. Or you can order a set from www.randomtechnology.com and bring them to a muffler shop.

[JC7727]

good luck welding magnaflow cats into the exhaust, their is NO room to fit cats in the exhaust channel of our cars, not even staggered cats. Everyone makes out like its a simple job, its not at all esp on a stock exhuast piping.

[samir@technik]

good luck welding magnaflow cats into the exhaust, their is NO room to fit cats in the exhaust channel of our cars, not even staggered cats. Everyone makes out like its a simple job, its not at all esp on a stock exhuast piping.

Not true. There is plenty of room for a dual in/out cat if you remove the first resonator (I have this setup on my own car).

[JC7727]

you have that with stock piping? one magnaflow dual in out cat?

[samir@technik]

Yep. If you take a look at the ETK, you'll see that BMW actually has a catalyst option designed to fit in that very spot.

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/temp/e46oecat.jpg">

[GBX330ci]

Yep. If you take a look at the ETK, you'll see that BMW actually has a catalyst option designed to fit in that very spot.

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/temp/e46oecat.jpg">

Is that for Euro cars? Also, will cats help to quiet down the exhaust or is it soley for emissions?

[samir@technik]

Is that for Euro cars?

Not sure, the ETK doesn't list it as a part number for US or EU cars. It could be for South Africa. Either way, it's probably really expensive. A magnaflow/RT cat will do the same job for less.

Also, will cats help to quiet down the exhaust or is it soley for emissions?

It will definitely quiet down the exhaust by reducing top-end rasp.

[drhendrix]

So replacing the resonators with cats will make the car quieter?

[samir@technik]

Little bit...cats tend to muffle sound more than resonators.

[drhendrix]

Little bit...cats tend to muffle sound more than resonators.

Another question. After replacing the stock manifold with headers on an e46, is it running with no cats at all?

[samir@technik]

Another question. After replacing the stock manifold with headers on an e46, is it running with no cats at all?

Yes, the cats are on the manifolds, so when you remove them, you are going catless.

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/temp/e46oemanifolds.jpg">

[JC7727]

Technik, so a simple magnaflow with a dual in dual out can replace the 1st resonator with little modification to the stock pipeing?

[samir@technik]

Technik, so a simple magnaflow with a dual in dual out can replace the 1st resonator with little modification to the stock pipeing?

All you need to do is cut out the resonator and weld in the cat. The rest of the piping is untouched.

This is an example of the universal dual in/out that I was running:

<img src="http://www.car-sound.com/catalog/img/94000b.jpg">

http://www.car-sound.com/catalog/universal/940.aspx

[GBX330ci]

All you need to do is cut out the resonator and weld in the cat. The rest of the piping is untouched.

This is an example of the universal dual in/out that I was running:

<img src="http://www.car-sound.com/catalog/img/94000b.jpg">

http://www.car-sound.com/catalog/universal/940.aspx

what are you running now, if you don't mind me asking?

[samir@technik]

what are you running now, if you don't mind me asking?

Nothing as of now since the car's powertrain is completely gutted (btw, this was on the black 330).

[GBX330ci]

Nothing as of now since the car's powertrain is completely
gutted (btw, this was on the black 330).

:omg: can't wait to see it when its all done. Any teaser pics or info?

What is the red car running?

[samir@technik]

:omg: can't wait to see it when its all done. Any teaser pics or info?

:D Soon. Full writeup coming on the engine buildup w/ Stage 4 SC kit.

What is the red car running?

Stock manifolds. Want to keep this car at Stage 1 for now so we can get the baseline ECU tuning done for MS45.

[BMWtech]

I will back Samir with the magnaflow cats. Magnaflow makes a great product and most products have a lifetime warrenty. The company originated from CAR SOUND exhuast who has been making direct bolt on catalyst replacements for years. I had magnaflow converter and muffer on my truck and I loved it. I actually fabricated most of the Cat-back kits when i used to work there before I got envolved with BMW. My truck is still in the thier ads. Its the white dodge dakota with body kit layin frame. I cant wait to get thier cat back kit on my car when its finished in production in approx 4 weeks. :thumbsup:

[xS3x]

so tempting samir..you are making me want to get it :eek:

[MarvelPhx]

How do these cams affect cat converter longevity... blow-by issues?

[BMWtech]

What kind of gas mileage changes are you seeing with these cams?

[samir@technik]

How do these cams affect cat converter longevity...

They don't. Cat longevity is moreso related to a correct AFR, not really power. It's not like an extra 30WHP is going to suddenly destroy the cats. This is why we offer Stage 3 software, which will support up to 390WHP (see AFR graph below for reference). Besides that, we highly recommend going with headers at this level of power anyways and moving the cats further downstream. If you want to break 300WHP, upping the boost is not really the answer. You have to start thinking about the exhaust system. The bottleneck in these engines is a 2-part problem, cams (especially the exhaust cam) and exhaust manifold, not just one or the other.

blow-by issues?

Blowby is a function of mostly engine maintenance (oil service) and engine break-in. A stock engine with improper maintenance or incorrect break-in procedures can exhibit blowby issues, therefore adding a set of 248/256 cams is not going to affect blowby anymore than adding a set of 248/248 or 264/248 cams. If the engine is maintained properly and the oil is changed regularly, you won't have to worry about this.

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/dyno/sc/ficams_1.jpg">

[samir@technik]

What kind of gas mileage changes are you seeing with these cams?

Tough to say, I haven't monitored this. Most people that have a supercharger don't exactly drive it with gas mileage in mind. :)

[MarvelPhx]

I do apologize Samir, I didn't mean blow-by as in pistons rings. I meant overlap.

[samir@technik]

I do apologize Samir, I didn't mean blow-by as in pistons rings. I meant overlap.

No worries. Overlap was the main reason for making this cam. Schrick only offers N/A cams for the M52TU and M54. The 248/248, while suitable in terms of duration specs since it offers a split pattern profile, were simply too mild and the 264/248 had too much overlap on the intake, which would let boost slip right through the head. With a boosted motor, the focus was put on the exhaust side of the head. Since the exhaust ports are already very small, the cam manufacturer calculated a 248/256 combination as being ideal for 6.5-10psi. We are also working on more aggressive FI combinations in the 264 and 268 range. These will go into our built 3.0L motor for 14-17psi.

[MarvelPhx]

No worries. Overlap was the main reason for making this cam. Schrick only offers N/A cams for the M52TU and M54. The 248/248, while suitable in terms of duration specs since it offers a split pattern profile, were simply too mild and the 264/248 had too much overlap on the intake, which would let boost slip right through the head. With a boosted motor, the focus was put on the exhaust side of the head. Since the exhaust ports are already very small, the cam manufacturer calculated a 248/256 combination as being ideal for 6.5-10psi. We are also working on more aggressive FI combinations in the 264 and 268 range. These will go into our built 3.0L motor for 14-17psi.

And that is the reason I am seriously considering these cams if I go the header route... God, I love working on my car!

[stylinexpat]

There is also the Supersprint racing cats option available too but it is more expensive. I have that one on my car..

[330iCanada]

:D Soon. Full writeup coming on the engine buildup w/ Stage 4 SC kit.



Stock manifolds. Want to keep this car at Stage 1 for now so we can get the baseline ECU tuning done for MS45.

Hi Samir,

How is the ECU tuning coming on the MS45?

[samir@technik]

Hi Samir,

How is the ECU tuning coming on the MS45?

Briefly on hold. We're moving to a larger facility about 15 mins away from our current location. Construction started today, so the dyno will be out of commission while we build a new pit. New place should be done in about 2 weeks, then we'll finish up MSS54 and MS45.

[MarvelPhx]

Samir: Here is a good point, how are these cams vs the ZHP cams... just for everyone's info.

[aeon]

silly question samir... but even if you weld in some mag/random cats where the initial resonator was, we're still missing two o2 sensor plug ins, right? can you make it so the CEL doesn't light up?

[samir@technik]

Samir: Here is a good point, how are these cams vs the ZHP cams... just for everyone's info.

The stock cams and the ZHP cams are essentially no different. We saw roughly a 5WHP gain on my own car when I swapped out from stock to ZHP...and that could have been attributed to other variables such as humidity, temp, etc.

[samir@technik]

silly question samir... but even if you weld in some mag/random cats where the initial resonator was, we're still missing two o2 sensor plug ins, right?

Yes, this is why you'll need to get some O2 bungs and weld them in after the cat as well. Muffler shops usually have these in stock.

Or you can buy them here...

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp?part=BIG-10120FLT

[omes]

Sorry Samir to jack on your thread but I thought I would add this with regards to the whole cat debate:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=204306&highlight=omes+cats+vibrant

I added the SS header with no cat initially (SS Xpipe) to the rear resonator section, the exhaust note was too raspy and I had some issues due to an install mistake so I welded in a set of single bomb vibrant high flow racing cats and then discovered the install error. The cats took the raspy tone out of the exhaust and my car has an amazing tone to it now. I have had many bmw fanatics tell me my car is the best sounding bmw they have ever heard.:-) A two to one setup would work just fine as well but there are many benefits to running an xpipe so I spent some extra time in the exhaust shop and had them modify mine to accept the cats. The cat came with bungs pre weld and I had my O2 sensor wires extended.

Best regards
Omes.

[JC7727]

I have two vibrant high flow racing cats but without the ss xpipe their is not enough room between the stock piping to weld the cat in even stagered.

[omes]

I have two vibrant high flow racing cats but without the ss xpipe their is not enough room between the stock piping to weld the cat in even stagered.

Did i just make that up? :rolleyes: maybe i am just good at photoshop.

[JC7727]

:rolleyes: do you have stock exahust piping? Exactly you have the x-pipe hence their is more room between the pipes. Samir, the shop said they ran multistrand copper wire when they extended the 02 sensors is this good?

[samir@technik]

Samir, the shop said they ran multistrand copper wire when they extended the 02 sensors is this good?

NO...this is wrong. Copper wire will not work correctly.

[kerisabe]

Btw,

I had my shop to putin Magnaflow's High Flow cat (dual in dual out), yes, the high flow cat quiet down the muffler. That's why a week after I got it done, I told em to take it out, cause I want my exhaust louder lol.

Anyone interested in buying this off me? Name the price, a week old Magnaflow High Flow Cat (dual in dual out).

[ATL328]

Not really. You can definitely get away with it, but adding headers is like popping a cork on these cars...really frees up a major bottleneck in the exhaust system. The stock cams and manifolds are the main restriction once you reach 300WHP.
Samir..or whatever your name is...you seem to be extremely knowledgeable on the topic and it is refreshing to hear good advice. I have a 2000 328i step and want more power out of it. I currently have a dinan chip and intake. Can I use these camshafts? How much? How much power increase? Secondly, if I got headers, do I need to get exhaust? How much for headers? and how much power increase with headers and camshafts. Thanks in advance.

[samir@technik]

Can I use these camshafts? How much? How much power increase?

You wouldn't want to run these cams without a blower or turbo. For N/A, we have 264/248 in stock. Same price as these FI cams, $1299. Power gains are roughly 20WHP/WTQ.

Secondly, if I got headers, do I need to get exhaust? How much for headers? and how much power increase with headers and camshafts. Thanks in advance.

Headers are $1299 as well. You don't need an exhaust to run headers, but it is highly recommended. Headers will net you an additional 10WHP.

[Boosted330]

samir... ive got a few questions...
1. is that dyno on a car that had headers to start w/ then simply the cams were added for the following dyno?
2. can i see similar gains w/ using stock headers or do they have to be changed to see that full 30ish HP gain?
3. if i kept stock headers, how much could i expect to gain?
4. will these work as effectively with my AA blower as they do w/ the ASA?

30hp for 1200bux plus install sounds pretty sweet... but headers also are gonna double the cost of the job... but i'd prob gain an additional 10-20hp(on top of the 30) if i did do the headers too right?

-robby

[JC7727]

Btw,

I had my shop to putin Magnaflow's High Flow cat (dual in dual out), yes, the high flow cat quiet down the muffler. That's why a week after I got it done, I told em to take it out, cause I want my exhaust louder lol.

Anyone interested in buying this off me? Name the price, a week old Magnaflow High Flow Cat (dual in dual out).
whats the diameter of the inlet and outlet

[JC7727]

NO...this is wrong. Copper wire will not work correctly.
What type of wire do you recomend, and do you recomend a specifc 02 sensor? I call technik today but their was no answer.

[kerisabe]

whats the diameter of the inlet and outlet

Exact same as the stock pipes.

[samir@technik]

samir... ive got a few questions...
1. is that dyno on a car that had headers to start w/ then simply the cams were added for the following dyno?

Yes, the only difference is the cams fore/aft.

2. can i see similar gains w/ using stock headers or do they have to be changed to see that full 30ish HP gain?

Ideally it's best to do both headers and cams, but the gains will still be quite substantial without headers. All the headers really do is give you a higher starting point. We're actually doing another blown 330 now that doesn't have headers, so I'll post that graph up when we're done swapping out cams.

3. if i kept stock headers, how much could i expect to gain?

At least 25WHP.

4. will these work as effectively with my AA blower as they do w/ the ASA?

They'll work with any kit, turbo or supercharged.

30hp for 1200bux plus install sounds pretty sweet... but headers also are gonna double the cost of the job... but i'd prob gain an additional 10-20hp(on top of the 30) if i did do the headers too right?

We see on average about 10-15WHP gain with headers.

[samir@technik]

What type of wire do you recomend,

Stainless Steel

and do you recomend a specifc 02 sensor?

You re-use the same sensors. The cat sensors aren't standard O2 sensors like the ones used by the ECU to measure air/fuel ratios.

[JC7727]

The cat sensors aren't standard O2 sensors like the ones used by the ECU to measure air/fuel ratios.

How so? I think the shop replaced the 2 02 sensors before I told them copper wire isnt going to work :(

[samir@technik]

How so? I think the shop replaced the 2 02 sensors before I told them copper wire isnt going to work :(

The post cat sensors serve a different purpose than the pre-cat sensors. The voltage signal they emit is different. I think you should find a different shop.

[JC7727]

The post cat sensors serve a different purpose than the pre-cat sensors. The voltage signal they emit is different. I think you should find a different shop.
Of course it makes sense the post cat sensors send an different voltage signal than the pre cat sensors. My question is I know they changed the post cat sensors with new oem o2 sensors, I wouldnt suspect anything wrong with this. I am confused on what the problem might be? They are changing out the extened copper wire to stainless.

[samir@technik]

My question is I know they changed the post cat sensors with new oem o2 sensors, I wouldnt suspect anything wrong with this.

Why would they waste your money and buy new sensors? :hmm: Why wouldn't they just re-use the existing sensors?

The post cat probes are:
11 78 7 514 926
11 78 7 514 927

If they bought those for you, then you are cool.

[GBX330ci]

Ideally it's best to do both headers and cams, but the gains will still be quite substantial without headers. All the headers really do is give you a higher starting point. We're actually doing another blown 330 now that doesn't have headers, so I'll post that graph up when we're done swapping out cams.

Higher starting point HP wise?

Can't wait to see that dyno. I'm trying to avoid gettin headers since my car is a daily driver and i think it would be way too loud! (even though i know its a smart thing to do performance wise :ben: )

[Mike Benvo]

These cams are amazing... They really brought my car to life. I think i got 35RWHP and 30WTQ out of them, not to mention how much smoother the car is. Definitly worth the price.

PM for before and after dyno.

[GBX330ci]

These cams are amazing... They really brought my car to life. I think i got 35RWHP and 30WTQ out of them, not to mention how much smoother the car is. Definitly worth the price.

PM for before and after dyno.

you have headers though, right?

[Mike Benvo]

you have headers though, right?

Yes, I do. Cams + Headers yields a huge gain on an FI E46, because the factory exhaust manifold is extremely restrictive.

[Mike Benvo]

They don't. Cat longevity is moreso related to a correct AFR, not really power. It's not like an extra 30WHP is going to suddenly destroy the cats. This is why we offer Stage 3 software, which will support up to 390WHP (see AFR graph below for reference). Besides that, we highly recommend going with headers at this level of power anyways and moving the cats further downstream. If you want to break 300WHP, upping the boost is not really the answer. You have to start thinking about the exhaust system. The bottleneck in these engines is a 2-part problem, cams (especially the exhaust cam) and exhaust manifold, not just one or the other.



Blowby is a function of mostly engine maintenance (oil service) and engine break-in. A stock engine with improper maintenance or incorrect break-in procedures can exhibit blowby issues, therefore adding a set of 248/256 cams is not going to affect blowby anymore than adding a set of 248/248 or 264/248 cams. If the engine is maintained properly and the oil is changed regularly, you won't have to worry about this.

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/dyno/sc/ficams_1.jpg">

Is this of my car? Just curious.

[samir@technik]

Is this of my car? Just curious.

yep

[Mike Benvo]

yep

Can't wait for the 10Psi run :burnout:

[e popa]

Samir Are 252 degrees at 10.2 lift cams any good for FI
Also I know if I get cams I have to be reprogramed . But If I do just headers and cats do I need to reprogram?

[samir@technik]

You mean both intake/exhaust? That's a good profile, but the M54's head has diminutive exhaust ports...having more duration on the exhaust than intake helps a bunch.

[drhendrix]

You mean both intake/exhaust? That's a good profile, but the M54's head has diminutive exhaust ports...having more duration on the exhaust than intake helps a bunch.

Question for the Technik guru. I am running headers with no cats. I just got an offer from a guy to replace my resonator with some e36 M3 cats. Is that OK to do? Will I lose horsepower and/or torque?

[samir@technik]

I just got an offer from a guy to replace my resonator with some e36 M3 cats. Is that OK to do? Will I lose horsepower and/or torque?

It's ok, but keep in mind that OE cats are generally more restrictive than aftermarket "hi-flow" cats, so you <i>may</i> see less performance with the E36 cats over a magnaflow/RT.

[samir@technik]

Also I know if I get cams I have to be reprogramed . But If I do just headers and cats do I need to reprogram?

Only if you're starting to run out of fuel capacity.

[e popa]

You mean both intake/exhaust? That's a good profile, but the M54's head has diminutive exhaust ports...having more duration on the exhaust than intake helps a bunch.
This would be going in a 323ci ,Would it work Ok?
By the way thanks for the answers :thumbup:

[samir@technik]

This would be going in a 323ci ,Would it work Ok?

Same for the M52TU, the exhaust ports are really small compared to the intake side...while 252/252 would be a good setup, I would recommend going higher on the exhaust if you are blown.

[e popa]

Same for the M52TU, the exhaust ports are really small compared to the intake side...while 252/252 would be a good setup, I would recommend going higher on the exhaust if you are blown.
yeah Im running AA at 8psi I can get a really good deal on the 252/252 thats why im asking. Would it be worth even doing? or just get one thats higher on the exhaust side?

[samir@technik]

I can get a really good deal on the 252/252 thats why im asking.

First, you have to make sure you are <i>really</i> getting 252/252. I'm not aware of any cam makers that provide such a profile, not Schrick at least.

Would it be worth even doing? or just get one thats higher on the exhaust side?

If it's really 252/252, sure...but you'll make more power with more duration on the exhaust.

[e popa]

First, you have to make sure you are <i>really</i> getting 252/252. I'm not aware of any cam makers that provide such a profile, not Schrick at least.



If it's really 252/252, sure...but you'll make more power with more duration on the exhaust.
Alright thanks for the help. :pimpin:

[samir@technik]

Dyno of 330 Stage 1 w/ new SC cams...

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/dyno/sc/technikficams_330_s1.jpg">

[2003330i]

Hey What Up Samir? Is There Any Updates On The Stage 2 Ecu For The Zhp Model?

[samir@technik]

Hey What Up Samir? Is There Any Updates On The Stage 2 Ecu For The Zhp Model?

Sorry that I don't have anything new to report on this, but we're currently working on the encryption keys, which is incredibly time consuming.

[samir@technik]

Here's a 325 Stage 1 w/ our SC cams freshly installed...

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/dyno/sc/technikficams_325_s1.jpg">

Less gains on the torque side due to the smaller displacement of the engine, but still a nice boost in top-end HP.

Also note: With less boost (ie. Stage 1), the gains will not be proportionally the same as with higher boost (ie. Stage 2 or Stage 3). The benefit of these cams is more apparent at higher boost levels.

[2003330i]

Sorry that I don't have anything new to report on this, but we're currently working on the encryption keys, which is incredibly time consuming.

ANY TIMEFRAME ON HOW MUCH LONGER YOU THINK ITS GOING TO BE

[samir@technik]

ANY TIMEFRAME ON HOW MUCH LONGER YOU THINK ITS GOING TO BE

Construction on our place is scheduled to finish around the 24th of this month, then we can start dyno tuning (the encryption keys will be finished in the meantime).

[samir@technik]

Here's a 325 Stage 2 (8psi) with the SC cams...

<img src="http://www.technikpower.com/dyno/sc/technikficams_325_s2.jpg">

Note how much the torque increased with just 1.5+ on the boost side...this is where the cams really shine.

[2003330i]

Construction on our place is scheduled to finish around the 24th of this month, then we can start dyno tuning (the encryption keys will be finished in the meantime).

thank you

[Nico3k]

Hmm, I am just wondering why on the 325 SK1 and SK2 dyno, the WHP is the same for for 6.5psi and 8psi?

[samir@technik]

Hmm, I am just wondering why on the 325 SK1 and SK2 dyno, the WHP is the same for for 6.5psi and 8psi?

Not sure what you mean. The 8psi + cams dyno I posted was using the same baseline as the 6.5psi + cams dyno. The second dyno I posted added the Stage 2 pulley.

[Nico3k]

Not sure what you mean. The 8psi + cams dyno I posted was using the same baseline as the 6.5psi + cams dyno. The second dyno I posted added the Stage 2 pulley.

Oh I see what you mean; I just misinterpreted it. Sorry for the confusion.

Amazing gains on the cams though; seems like another must-have like headers when going FI

[Mike Benvo]

They made my engine sound different also.. Sounds much better. I'll take vids soon :).

[burrito007]

would it be possible to run these cams without headers, or a supercharger with a shark injector... in anticipation of buying a SC one day? Will there be any gains?

I would like to do cams but only once.

[Mike Benvo]

would it be possible to run these cams without headers, or a supercharger with a shark injector... in anticipation of buying a SC one day? Will there be any gains?

I would like to do cams but only once.
You should wait for the SC before you do the cams. The cams are for FI applications. You can run the cams without headers but your exhaust manifold will be a HUGE bottleneck.

[Hung@Fiber-D]

damn.. i need to save up.

[burrito007]

I was hoping to see signs of 300whp

i guess there's really no way for the 2.5l to get anywhere near the 3l

On second look, those cams and pulley really do make quite a difference. Lets see some 10+ psi!

[e popa]

How would I get in touch with you if I wanted these cams? And just to make sure I would need extra tuning with these correct?
TIA Erik

[samir@technik]

How would I get in touch with you if I wanted these cams? And just to make sure I would need extra tuning with these correct?
TIA Erik

You can call us at 310-360-0877 or email us at info@technikpower.com

You don't need extra tuning if your existing injectors can flow enough to sustain the added power.

[e popa]

You can call us at 310-360-0877 or email us at info@technikpower.com

You don't need extra tuning if your existing injectors can flow enough to sustain the added power.
You got a PM :thumbup:

[samir@technik]

Replied :thumbup:

[BayerischeMW]

Technik, how would these cams work on a (at this point) non-SC 330? if i decide to go with a S/C later on, i don't want to have to change cams twice.

if these wouldn't work, which of your cams do you suggest for a non-SC 330 (for optimal results)? what are the differences between 248/248, 264/248, 248/256 (newbie when it comes to this)?

thanks in advance!

[samir@technik]

Technik, how would these cams work on a (at this point) non-SC 330? if i decide to go with a S/C later on, i don't want to have to change cams twice.

You'll still make more power than the stock cams, but since they are meant for FI, the extra duration on the exhaust will not make as much power as the 264/248 setup. However, if the plan is to go with a blower down the road, then that won't really matter.

if these wouldn't work, which of your cams do you suggest for a non-SC 330 (for optimal results)? what are the differences between 248/248, 264/248, 248/256 (newbie when it comes to this)?

thanks in advance!

The 264/248 will net you the most power. The 248/248 will also give you a nice boost, but not as much as the 264/248. The duration numbers on the intake are more important with N/A, since you have to rely on atmospheric pressure to force air into the engine. This is why N/A cams have more duration on the intake, to keep the valve open longer and "gulp" the most amount of air as possible. With FI, that isn't necessary, since the SC or Turbo is <i>forcing</i> air into the chamber well beyond atmospheric. This is why exhaust duration becomes more important, because you now have to deal with getting the air <i>out</i> of the chamber...as quickly as possible.

[burrito007]

You'll still make more power than the stock cams, but since they are meant for FI, the extra duration on the exhaust will not make as much power as the 264/248 setup. However, if the plan is to go with a blower down the road, then that won't really matter.



The 264/248 will net you the most power. The 248/248 will also give you a nice boost, but not as much as the 264/248. The duration numbers on the intake are more important with N/A, since you have to rely on atmospheric pressure to force air into the engine. This is why N/A cams have more duration on the intake, to keep the valve open longer and "gulp" the most amount of air as possible. With FI, that isn't necessary, since the SC or Turbo is <i>forcing</i> air into the chamber well beyond atmospheric. This is why exhaust duration becomes more important, because you now have to deal with getting the air <i>out</i> of the chamber...as quickly as possible.

I think i also recently asked this question. Mainly I want to know if its possible for me to accomplish my goals in stages.
My current plan is chep-o headers off ebay, cheap-o cats, and some form of muffler that is pretty quiet. Get it all welded together and on the car first.
Then beginning of next year throw some cams on there that would give me some boost in power, but would really be ideal for FI.
Finally close it all out with a SC in the summer. I'm leaning towards the SK+ and possibly fabbing up an IC myself.

Which cam should i get? Would the cam work better with Jim C's software?

[samir@technik]

My current plan is chep-o headers off ebay,

What material are these headers made out of? It's not a good idea to cut costs on parts that endure a lot of heat stress. Plus, the labor costs are very high, should you need to remove them later on. Might as well get a quality stainless header for peace of mind.

Which cam should i get? Would the cam work better with Jim C's software?

If the plan is to go with the standard SK+, then I would have to say the stock cams are fine. You won't see much gains at 5psi with them. Now, if you go with the 6.5psi SK+, then it becomes a little more worthwhile, but the true advantage of these cams is at 8psi+.

[burrito007]

What material are these headers made out of? It's not a good idea to cut costs on parts that endure a lot of heat stress. Plus, the labor costs are very high, should you need to remove them later on. Might as well get a quality stainless header for peace of mind.



If the plan is to go with the standard SK+, then I would have to say the stock cams are fine. You won't see much gains at 5psi with them. Now, if you go with the 6.5psi SK+, then it becomes a little more worthwhile, but the true advantage of these cams is at 8psi+.

would i be better off with zhp camshafts? also, would it matter if i just used the schrick 264 cams since i'm thinking about the sk+?

as for the headers... i'm looking at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E46-323i-328i-Z3-E39-528i-Exhaust-Header-Headers_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33631QQitemZ8008206448QQr dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

seller "says" that they are stainless... i figured i could also throw on some header wrap i have lying around from the rex.
and i have a good shop lined up who quoted me 3 - 4 hours at 65/hour. (they have done some custom stuff for me before to make ebay headers fit on my wrx.)

[BayerischeMW]

Technik, thanks a lot for the answer. very helpful (i got your PM as well, will PM you back)

what kind of power do you think i would be looking at with the 264/248 cams?

i'm looking into getting headers + supersprint straight pipes w/cats. my muffler is the ZHP. any idea of what the power output would be with this kind of setup mixed with the correct software?

thanks in advance!

[samir@technik]

what kind of power do you think i would be looking at with the 264/248 cams?

We've seen about 20WHP/20WTQ with these cams.

i'm looking into getting headers + supersprint straight pipes w/cats. my muffler is the ZHP. any idea of what the power output would be with this kind of setup mixed with the correct software?

The headers will net you about 10WHP on top of the cams. With proper software you can probably squeeze another 5-10HP depending on the type of fuel you have access to.

[samir@technik]

would i be better off with zhp camshafts? also, would it matter if i just used the schrick 264 cams since i'm thinking about the sk+?

At 5psi, you're probably just better off keeping the stock cams. The 264s would be ok, but the overlap might kill your topend and blow boost through the head.

as for the headers... i'm looking at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E46-323i-328i-Z3-E39-528i-Exhaust-Header-Headers_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33631QQitemZ8008206448QQr dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

seller "says" that they are stainless... i figured i could also throw on some header wrap i have lying around from the rex.

Hard to tell from the pics, but they don't look to be equal length.

[burrito007]

At 5psi, you're probably just better off keeping the stock cams. The 264s would be ok, but the overlap might kill your topend and blow boost through the head.



Hard to tell from the pics, but they don't look to be equal length.


gotcha... im thinking, however, that i would want to get the 5psi kit and upgrade to your 6.5+ software later.

[BayerischeMW]

thanks a lot Technik.

i have sent you a PM.

i've been in touch with ESS (they're 60 miles away from me), and they told me they could special write software for me for cams and/or headers. they would also perform the installation, and do a dyno for me afterwards.

what's your thoughts on getting a CAI as well (most likely a GruppeM), and underdrive pullies? would these squeeze out any power at all when combined with cams and headers?

thanks a lot in advance.

[668Ci]

Samir,
I know the exhaust is really restricted hence the need for headers, and plus the fact that these cams push out more air, I can see how much more hp I'll be making once I get headers. Reason I ask is my car feels weaker, could it be the ecu is adapting to the car not being able to breath efficiently? Don't get me wrong, the car still feels powerful, maybe I'm just used to it now...Or maybe it's the fact that it puts out so much power that my clutch is begining to wear out. Maybe that's the problem... http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/thinking.gif

[samir@technik]

Samir,
I know the exhaust is really restricted hence the need for headers, and plus the fact that these cams push out more air, I can see how much more hp I'll be making once I get headers. Reason I ask is my car feels weaker, could it be the ecu is adapting to the car not being able to breath efficiently? Don't get me wrong, the car still feels powerful, maybe I'm just used to it now...Or maybe it's the fact that it puts out so much power that my clutch is begining to wear out. Maybe that's the problem... http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/thinking.gif

You're probably just used to it now, or like you said, the clutch is on it's last legs. The dyno shows a major increase throughout the entire powerband, so there is no way the car is weaker than before. Using the butt dyno to gauge power is never a good thing. You should actually be making a little more power now, since the ECU has had time to adapt.

Either way, headers will greatly improve your top-end.

[668Ci]

You're probably just used to it now, or like you said, the clutch is on it's last legs. The dyno shows a major increase throughout the entire powerband, so there is no way the car is weaker than before. Using the butt dyno to gauge power is never a good thing. You should actually be making a little more power now, since the ECU has had time to adapt.

Either way, headers will greatly improve your top-end. That's what i figured. Went out for a drive, the car feels great... but the clutch is slipping

[GBX330ci]

You're probably just used to it now, or like you said, the clutch is on it's last legs. The dyno shows a major increase throughout the entire powerband, so there is no way the car is weaker than before. Using the butt dyno to gauge power is never a good thing. You should actually be making a little more power now, since the ECU has had time to adapt.

Either way, headers will greatly improve your top-end.

Do you recommend stage 2 or 3 software with this setup on a 3.0L (TM12 blower and cams; NO headers)? Still deciding between Stage 2 and 3. I'd probably be running the 130mm pulley in either case and sticking with the TM12 blower for now and Cams would be my next purchase.

[Mike Benvo]

Do you recommend stage 2 or 3 software with this setup on a 3.0L (TM12 blower and cams; NO headers)? Still deciding between Stage 2 and 3. I'd probably be running the 130mm pulley in either case and sticking with the TM12 blower for now and Cams would be my next purchase.
I would definitly do headers before the cams... The exhaust manifold is a HUGE restriction in the E46's.

[GBX330ci]

I would definitly do headers before the cams... The exhaust manifold is a HUGE restriction in the E46's.

I know, but i think the car will be way too loud for me as a daily driver, especially pulling into work everyday.

[BayerischeMW]

I would definitly do headers before the cams... The exhaust manifold is a HUGE restriction in the E46's.

do you suggest getting headers before cams also on a non-SC?

[samir@technik]

Do you recommend stage 2 or 3 software with this setup on a 3.0L (TM12 blower and cams; NO headers)? Still deciding between Stage 2 and 3. I'd probably be running the 130mm pulley in either case and sticking with the TM12 blower for now and Cams would be my next purchase.

Most likely Stage 3.

[samir@technik]

do you suggest getting headers before cams also on a non-SC?

Cams would net you more of a gain.

[GBX330ci]

Most likely Stage 3.

and, without cams, stage 3 will be too rich? Like if i wanted to get stage 3 first and get cams a few months down the road?????

[samir@technik]

It won't run rich. The ECU will adapt to keep the AFR around 12, regardless of power output. All Stage 3 does is allow you to make up to 390WHP with a proper AFR.

[GBX330ci]

It won't run rich. The ECU will adapt to keep the AFR around 12, regardless of power output. All Stage 3 does is allow you to make up to 390WHP with a proper AFR.

Oh, i didn't realize that. That makes my decision easier. So why even have stage 1/2?

[samir@technik]

Because for under 300WHP, it's better to run smaller injectors. Just like you don't want injector duty cycles to be too high, you also don't want them to be too low.

[GBX330ci]

Because for under 300WHP, it's better to run smaller injectors. Just like you don't want injector duty cycles to be too high, you also don't want them to be too low.

Can anyone explain injector duty cycles to me? And the effects of being too high vs. too low. I'm a noob when it comes to this. TIA!

[samir@technik]

Duty cycle = how long the injector is turned on.

0% = off | 100% = Continuously on

If you were to say install 1000cc injectors in a stock 330, the duty cycle would probably be less than 20%. You don't want that since the accuracy with which fuel is delivered is worse as you go down in duty cycle %. Conversely, if you run your injectors at 100% all the time (or close to it), you run the risk of not giving the injector enough time to fully turn "off" before turning back on again...this can create a sloppy/lean AFR. At 6000RPMs, it only takes an engine 20ms to perform a full 4-stroke cycle (2 revolutions)...that's not a lot of time, especially when you're trying to turn an injector on/off and deliver an accurate dose of fuel.

[GBX330ci]

Duty cycle = how long the injector is turned on.

0% = off | 100% = Continuously on

If you were to say install 1000cc injectors in a stock 330, the duty cycle would probably be less than 20%. You don't want that since the accuracy with which fuel is delivered is worse as you go down in duty cycle %. Conversely, if you run your injectors at 100% all the time (or close to it), you run the risk of not giving the injector enough time to fully turn "off" before turning back on again...this can create a sloppy/lean AFR. At 6000RPMs, it only takes an engine 20ms to perform a full 4-stroke cycle (2 revolutions)...that's not a lot of time, especially when you're trying to turn an injector on/off and deliver an accurate dose of fuel.

thanks! :thumbup:

What size injectors are used in stage 1/2 vs. stage 3?

[samir@technik]

Stage 1, 2: 30#
Stage 3: 37#

(that's @ 3bar, E46s run 3.5bar, so the flow rates are a little higher)

[Mike Benvo]

Samir, would changing the valve springs be beneficial on my car? I want to rev higher.

[samir@technik]

Samir, would changing the valve springs be beneficial on my car? I want to rev higher.

Sure, HP is made with revs. But you also have to make sure your head can flow enough at 7000+. Good idea to get full port job as well.

[Kwanghyun Chi]

You wouldn't want to run these cams without a blower or turbo. For N/A, we have 264/248 in stock. Same price as these FI cams, $1299. Power gains are roughly 20WHP/WTQ.



Headers are $1299 as well. You don't need an exhaust to run headers, but it is highly recommended. Headers will net you an additional 10WHP.

Sounds like camshaft will give more power than headers? What about E46 2.5L 325xi auto trans Bimmer? I have aftermarket intake, exhuast, shark injector. Now, I am thinking of header, camshaft, NX.
However, right now, I have to decide in which order I'd better buy for header, camshaft. Similiar price, but which is in priority for my car?..Hm..Oh may be installation price was not mentioned before... Which one is cheaper 1) in total net price... 2) power gain per dimes.. Personally speaking, I am also expecting stronger sound of my exhaust from header. I really want to know what the sound will like if I go for header with my RE DMS exhaust without cat converter. Just stronger sound, that's fine.
1)header; similiar price, smaller power, greater sound
2)cam; similiar price, larger power, somewhat better sound
:evil:

[wilman2772]

Sure, HP is made with revs. But you also have to make sure your head can flow enough at 7000+. Good idea to get full port job as well.

Samir, OT alittle....

Any chance of Technik having a Setrab oil cooler for Z4?? Need 1 badly!

Wilson

[BayerischeMW]

Technik, would i need software to go with the 264/248 cams, or would they work properly without (i'm guessing they wouldn't work optimal, as in 100%)?

i'm planning on getting a few other engine mods as well, and don't want to get custom software until all engine mods are done.

thanks

[samir@technik]

Samir, OT alittle....

Any chance of Technik having a Setrab oil cooler for Z4?? Need 1 badly!

Wilson

We don't have an E85 application, but we might build one in the near future.

[samir@technik]

Technik, would i need software to go with the 264/248 cams, or would they work properly without (i'm guessing they wouldn't work optimal, as in 100%)?

i'm planning on getting a few other engine mods as well, and don't want to get custom software until all engine mods are done.

thanks

You don't need software, the cams will work just fine. Software will only optimize the performance.

[BayerischeMW]

thanks a lot Samir.

if i decide to go with a ported & polished cylinder head as well, what kind of gains would i see along with the cams (no headers)? how would this affect the engine sound (and possibly emissions)?

[Kwanghyun Chi]

:smokin: All you need to do is cut out the resonator and weld in the cat. The rest of the piping is untouched.

This is an example of the universal dual in/out that I was running:

<img src="http://www.car-sound.com/catalog/img/94000b.jpg">

http://www.car-sound.com/catalog/universal/940.aspx

Hi, technik? Are you a member from Technik? What about E46 325xi?
It`s auto tranny....I am veryvery interesting because you seem to be one of a few shop, who sells cam kit for E46 325 2.5L... :mischief:

Anyway, it sounds like cam is better than header for power gain, and if I add header to cam, it will give additional power.

Usually, those two kits can reduce at least 0.5sec -1sec for 0-60mph? :idea:

Let me ask about your supercharger kit for my 2.5L engine. I heard it would give 260ft/lb torque and around 300hp... But.. what`s that dyno graph? It's very dissappointing, cuz powers are much much less than claimed.

Actually, for header and cam, I don' much care about the dyno result, but as for supercharger, I can't help asking again and again, because the right choice of supercharger kit will allow me to start power upgrade project from a good start point....

Anyway, those two kits would be a last ticket for people who don't have forced induction kit. I am also planning to buy supercharger kit later. Then, I have to remove air intake and shark. But, I can still use cam and header that I might buy after hearing from you....

I just wanna know the spec on my car...2.5L 325i 325xi 325ci....

1)power torque from header without cat

2)power torque from cam

3)any other change expected from cam including just sound change and the way power goes up or whether there might be any power loss at lower RPM and its actual effect(can't imagine)

4)description of sound change from header without cat but with free flow exhust(very throaty RE exahust)

5)Finally, the additional power from header after cam.

2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L 2.5L
:evil:
All I am interested in is about 2.5L 2003 BMW 325xi 4WD auto transmission car. I have intake, exhaust, and shark injector. Now, I am very interested in header and camshaft. Previously, I though header will give more power. However, you make me very interested in cam, cuz you said it would give 30hp.. That's awesome, even though installation seems not to be easy.

[wilman2772]

Wow!! That's very power england U got there!!

U must be new here!

:lmao:

[samir@technik]

Let me ask about your supercharger kit for my 2.5L engine. I heard it would give 260ft/lb torque and around 300hp... But.. what`s that dyno graph? It's very dissappointing, cuz powers are much much less than claimed.

That's WHEEL power, not <i>crank</i>

I just wanna know the spec on my car...2.5L 325i 325xi 325ci....

1)power torque from header without cat

2)power torque from cam

3)any other change expected from cam including just sound change and the way power goes up or whether there might be any power loss at lower RPM and its actual effect(can't imagine)

4)description of sound change from header without cat but with free flow exhust(very throaty RE exahust)

5)Finally, the additional power from header after cam.

1) About 10WHP/5WTQ
2) About 20WHP/20WTQ (that's for N/A)
3) No changes, no losses
4) Extremely raspy
5) Slightly more than #1

Now, I am very interested in header and camshaft. Previously, I though header will give more power. However, you make me very interested in cam, cuz you said it would give 30hp..

That's only for cars with a supercharger and at least 8psi of boost.

[samir@technik]

thanks a lot Samir.

if i decide to go with a ported & polished cylinder head as well, what kind of gains would i see along with the cams (no headers)? how would this affect the engine sound (and possibly emissions)?

About 10-15HP. Wouldn't really affect sound or emissions.

[des744]

Hi Samir,

do let me know when the stock of Sc cams are in.... I am waiting to collect! Hee hee. Thanks.

[2003330i]

I would definitly do headers before the cams... The exhaust manifold is a HUGE restriction in the E46's.


how much power will you pick up with the headers

[NorCal BMWBoy]

so whats the group buy price? i need one!

[samir@technik]

Pricing will be calculated soon.

[jtecnik]

hey Samir,

With installing cams with pully and soon headers, would you need to re-map or re-tune my software?

Would the existing software from te***** work?

[Mike Benvo]

hey Samir,

With installing cams with pully and soon headers, would you need to re-map or re-tune my software?

Would the existing software from te***** work?
You don't new new software from waht I understand. The car will keep adding fuel as it sees more air.