Breaking News: Affordable Standalone for our engines!!

[K-DOG]

http://www.autronic.com/page_files/sm4_kit.htm

I was browsing bimmerforums and read about the latest release from Autornic. This SM4 standalone kit supposedly has no problems running bmw engines with VANOS and comes in pretty "cheap" at 2.5k us. So I am thinking, wouldnt it be possible to make a generic turbo kit, use the Autronic standalone, and actually the software issue would be solved for our cars??

PS. it also says that in a couple of months they will have full support for traction control as well...

[vmwerks]

Ask your buddy at the Turbo shop :rolleyes:

[K-DOG]

Ask your buddy at the Turbo shop :rolleyes:

Maybe I will :flipoff:

[BMWE46Fl]

i'll believe it the day i see someone actually use it
and also if you are running turbo you probably dont even want to control vanos cuz its not needed and you also want to get rid of the overlap on the cams to make sure you dont blow up :dunno:

[MrMotorwerk]

There are other ECU replacement systems out there that have been on the market for quite awhile. i.e. Tec3.

A tuneable ECU still doesn't mean that creating your own FI application will be any easier! It is more than bending tubes, machining brackets, sourcing turbo/supercharger, and replacing injectors. Remember when all the hardware is in place, SH*T may and will happen, especially on prototype systems. Also, keep in mind the countless hours a car has to be on a Dyno for ECU tuning. It simply isn't plug and play. It's only Plug and play when all the R&D is done and finished. Otherwise, your custom FI application will be more like "Plug-and-PRAY".

You ever wonder why FI kits cost? Think about the man power behind the kits and not the value of the hardware!

[Gilb3rt0]

Actually vanos is prefered for turbo applications. Without it youd only be making power up top. Vanos helps make more power low end and even spool the turbo.

[K-DOG]

There are other ECU replacement systems out there that have been on the market for quite awhile. i.e. Tec3.


However, none of them were a) affordable b) had full control over all BMW engine functions (esp the complicated vanos).....Plus what we heard over and over that the biggest deterrent in FI for our cars is the software. If this really works as advertised, then problem solved.

[vmwerks]

The problem has already been solved for a whole lot less than $2500.00.

[FLVK]

The problem has already been solved for a whole lot less than $2500.00.

and that is? just curious...thanks

[BMWE46Fl]

and that is? just curious...thanks

you beat me to asking the same question

[vmwerks]

NA: Conforti, Dinan, Superchips, Powerchip etc

S/C: Technik, AA, ESS, VF

A short list.... you really need to ask yourself what is it you want? Turn key or a full on race setup? Do you really want to pay to have this system installed on a street car? I am getting a turbo'd E36 in my shop to remove a similar system and return it back to a stock ECU...

[DA-MOTORSPORT]

we got the solution, simply TSI.

[K-DOG]

NA: Conforti, Dinan, Superchips, Powerchip etc

S/C: Technik, AA, ESS, VF

A short list.... you really need to ask yourself what is it you want? Turn key or a full on race setup? Do you really want to pay to have this system installed on a street car? I am getting a turbo'd E36 in my shop to remove a similar system and return it back to a stock ECU...

Yes and none of the ones you mentioned can tune a turbo kit....TSI is indeed an interesting solution...but how much does it cost? And what kind of functions does it have?

[BMWE46Fl]

we got the solution, simply TSI.
what ever happened to Haltec??? you made such a big issue about it being so good and blah blah blah and how it could do everyhting and now you went back to TSI? :loco:

[DA-MOTORSPORT]

Haltech is a great system but for customers, the wiring is not easy and complicated. TSI is much easier to install. And we keep the turbo kits as simple as possible for installation.

Besides, mapping with haltech would take longer as there is no base map, we had to map the complete fuel map from scratch. TSI works on top of oem fuel map and programming is much easier.

[GarrettF]

Haltech is a great system but for customers, the wiring is not easy and complicated. TSI is much easier to install. And we keep the turbo kits as simple as possible for installation.

Besides, mapping with haltech would take longer as there is no base map, we had to map the complete fuel map from scratch. TSI works on top of oem fuel map and programming is much easier.
I am so confused.. the 330 turb kits will be comming with TSI now?

[vmwerks]

what ever happened to Haltec??? you made such a big issue about it being so good and blah blah blah and how it could do everyhting and now you went back to TSI? :loco:

Why the sarcasm? It is uncalled for, especially aimed at a reputable person / business.

What is good one day may be eclipsed the next. When a vendor touts a product we do so because in our opinion it is the best solution AT THE TIME. New computer components and parts are released constantly and make "new" stuff outdated within a few months. (look at DDE's) Does this mean that the outdated parts were no good? Hardly... To me there are 2 choices to make, either use the best that is available or wait until something better comes along. How long will you wait? There will ALWAYS be something better coming down the pipe...

I apologize if I seem a little miffed but I felt that I needed to say something.

[vmwerks]

Yes and none of the ones you mentioned can tune a turbo kit....TSI is indeed an interesting solution...but how much does it cost? And what kind of functions does it have?


Neither does the SM4 so what's your point?

[chris b.]

TSI works on top of oem fuel map and programming is much easier.

can you explain more? im ineterested in how tsi and the oem dme are working together.

p.s. -excellent website/work!!!! :thumbsup:

[Gotboost15psi]

Its weird that Da-motorsports have a million videos on the 1100hp BMW but none on the 330 turbo. Not even dyno videos. But then again they say tuners dont post videos?! Oh yea i highly doubt that BMW is 1100hp just by the way it pulls thru the rpm. The video between the E46 SMG M3 tells it all. the pull from the M3 is not a 800hp difference from the SMG at all. Looks more like 300-400 to me....could be less. Whatever those guys tell you about that ecu not being a piggyback it is total bull. If its joined to the factory computer in anyway it is piggybacked. If it that wasent the case than it wouldent be joined period! IF ITS NOT PIGGYBACK OR STANDALONE, THAN WHAT IS IT? PIGGYLONE?

[Asbjorn@ESS]

You guys are aware that in-DME tuning of a MS43/45 Turbo system is not really a problem? There are other reasons why most major BMW tuners have chosen to go down the SC route instead. We at ESS chose to focus on the TS instead since it offers a much broader power band and virtually the same max power, it retains oem cats, it installs in 1/3 of the time, there is a lot less things that can go wrong after install (hoses popping, radiant heat, oil hoses leaking, etc) + the most important thing of all : Throttle response and instant V8'ish torque, the TS and even a CF will crush the turbo in the response department. Making a working M54 turbo kit is not hard at all if you know the MS43/45 code, in fact it is much easier than making a TS kit since it does not require advanced castings to manufacture.

[photogenic]

damn im afraid to post but...

Any opinions on AEM EMS?

[Titan 3]

You guys are aware that in-DME tuning of a MS43/45 Turbo system is not really a problem? There are other reasons why most major BMW tuners have chosen to go down the SC route instead. We at ESS chose to focus on the TS instead since it offers a much broader power band and virtually the same max power, it retains oem cats, it installs in 1/3 of the time, there is a lot less things that can go wrong after install (hoses popping, radiant heat, oil hoses leaking, etc) + the most important thing of all : Throttle response and instant V8'ish torque, the TS and even a CF will crush the turbo in the response department. Making a working M54 turbo kit is not hard at all if you know the MS43/45 code, in fact it is much easier than making a TS kit since it does not require advanced castings to manufacture.

:thumbup: I think I'll stick with the blower.

[photogenic]

bump

[parad0x]

Its weird that Da-motorsports have a million videos on the 1100hp BMW but none on the 330 turbo. Not even dyno videos. But then again they say tuners dont post videos?! Oh yea i highly doubt that BMW is 1100hp just by the way it pulls thru the rpm. The video between the E46 SMG M3 tells it all. the pull from the M3 is not a 800hp difference from the SMG at all. Looks more like 300-400 to me....could be less. Whatever those guys tell you about that ecu not being a piggyback it is total bull. If its joined to the factory computer in anyway it is piggybacked. If it that wasent the case than it wouldent be joined period! IF ITS NOT PIGGYBACK OR STANDALONE, THAN WHAT IS IT? PIGGYLONE?

hey, arent you running the TSI EMS piggyback that you purchased off of da-motorsports? I read your other post, your boosting over 8 psi with a turbo kit sourced off of e-bay but you purchased your piggyback for only $1250.00.. and with all the other parts off of e-bay you put the total at 2605.00 dollars? You mentioned the tsi unit was mapped for the 330 to be used with rc 300cc injectors, the same ones you purchased off of e-bay. I would love to hear about your setup, do any engine lights pop up? hows the idle/powerband feel like? any problems? Have you done a dyno yet to see what your AFR/power is like? If so can you post it ?

[bimma328]

great question paradox, im asking myself the same questions, i have a friend with an ess tuning s/c and it pulls stong and he had it for 10000miles and still no engine problems, i wonder how Gotboost15psi setup works and will it kill the engine in a long term usage, im planning on putting 100 000miles or more on my e46 and wouldn't want to blow the engine after a few months of use

[funkyman]

Its weird that Da-motorsports have a million videos on the 1100hp BMW but none on the 330 turbo. Not even dyno videos. But then again they say tuners dont post videos?! Oh yea i highly doubt that BMW is 1100hp just by the way it pulls thru the rpm. The video between the E46 SMG M3 tells it all. the pull from the M3 is not a 800hp difference from the SMG at all. Looks more like 300-400 to me....could be less. Whatever those guys tell you about that ecu not being a piggyback it is total bull. If its joined to the factory computer in anyway it is piggybacked. If it that wasent the case than it wouldent be joined period! IF ITS NOT PIGGYBACK OR STANDALONE, THAN WHAT IS IT? PIGGYLONE?

Can you pls post the details of your kit if it is complete and working.I am also seriously considering on going turbo but i need to make sure that the kit works and is reliable before i indulge myself in any custom turbo kit.

[Gotboost15psi]

what other details are their to give? I practically posted everything that i have. The engine runs basiclly like stock at idle. I had a check engine light already on from changing to an aftermarket cold air intake so i wouldent know if it throws a check engine light. The car was dyno and ran rich the whole time, i believe they do that just to make it universal to prevent lean conditions. Only thing about the ecu, i dont believe it can be datalogged to have it tuned at the dyno, you would have to send it back to them and have it programed to what you want. However their is a interface cable to plug into a computer but i dont know how that works so....

[photogenic]

if we have a 325 and i do the bottom end swap and injectors swap can i basically run tsi? or would i need the ECU from the 330 and possibly cams?

[Gotboost15psi]

if we have a 325 and i do the bottom end swap and injectors swap can i basically run tsi? or would i need the ECU from the 330 and possibly cams?

You may have to do a bottom and top end swap to convert to a 330ci. I believe the head design is different as well as displacement. You will also need a 330 ecu too.

[bimma328]

so how much hp u pulled at the dyno??


what other details are their to give? I practically posted everything that i have. The engine runs basiclly like stock at idle. I had a check engine light already on from changing to an aftermarket cold air intake so i wouldent know if it throws a check engine light. The car was dyno and ran rich the whole time, i believe they do that just to make it universal to prevent lean conditions. Only thing about the ecu, i dont believe it can be datalogged to have it tuned at the dyno, you would have to send it back to them and have it programed to what you want. However their is a interface cable to plug into a computer but i dont know how that works so....

[parad0x]

So I take it after it ran rich on your dyno, you sent the TSI unit back to da motorsports for it to be tuned again? Do you have a dyno graph you can share with us?

[pei330ci]

You may have to do a bottom and top end swap to convert to a 330ci. I believe the head design is different as well as displacement. You will also need a 330 ecu too.

The 330 and 325 head have exactly the same casting, the ECU can be reprogramed by ESS.

You need a crank, rods, and pistons to increase displacement to 3 liters, but keep in mind this isn't the only difference between the M54B25 and M54B30. The intake is different, and deppending on the year, cams also.

Back on topic:

Anyone that puts the words "affordable" and "stand-alone EMS" in the same sentence doesn't know what they are talking about. A "Basic" system will run you 3-4K not including installation or tuning. I was recently quoted 12K for a Motec M600, wiring harness, and basemap.

[zire61]

i think for standalone hardware, nothing really beats the price of a megasquirt.

[Gotboost15psi]

So I take it after it ran rich on your dyno, you sent the TSI unit back to da motorsports for it to be tuned again? Do you have a dyno graph you can share with us?

Nope i left it just the way it was. I just wanted to get it dynoed to see where i stand without fine tuning. Im not raedy to spend anymore money on the car as of now. I do have dyno graphs but no scanner to post

[photogenic]

Nope i left it just the way it was. I just wanted to get it dynoed to see where i stand without fine tuning. Im not raedy to spend anymore money on the car as of now. I do have dyno graphs but no scanner to post

make a copy and mail it to me. ill post it online for you.

[m3mobbin]

I've heard it is a pretty good standalone, my buddy is having one put together (AEM EMS + PnP) by Evosport for his turbo'd e36 m3. I figure that if Evosport uses them they are a pretty good unit, but they are pretty damn expensive too.
damn im afraid to post but...

Any opinions on AEM EMS?

[funkyman]

Nice turbo

[photogenic]

bump for more info