** NEW M52TU/M54 TWIN SCREW from ESS Tuning!

[Sales@ESS]

As announced today at Bimmerfest:

ESS Performance Products USA is proud to announce our TWIN SCREW supercharger system for the M52TU/M54 engines!

After 3 years of extensive research, development, and tuning, we will soon release the first and only TWIN SCREW (TS) Supercharger system for the BMW M52TU/M54 engines used in the E46 as well as the E39, E53, E60, E83, and E85 chassis.

Utilizing the latest in positive displacement compressor technology, full boost is achieved before 2,000 RPM and maintained to redline at the highest thermal efficiency possible. Combined with our extensive software tuning, this creates huge torque gains throughout the entire RPM band while maintaining stock drivability, emissions, responsiveness, and smoothness at all speeds and loads.

The systems include an ESS-spec Lysholm Technologies™ self-lubricating 1.6L Twin Screw compressor unit capable of 18+ psi boost and 470+ hp, custom cast alloy intake manifold with optional integrated ultra-efficient Laminova™ core water intercooler system, high performance CNC butterfly bypass valve, larger flow matched Bosch fuel injectors, all necessary installation hardware, detailed instructions, and full DME software reprogramming through our USA office. The stock air box and filter are retained as they proved to be the best compromise between high airflow, air filtration efficiency, and water ingestion protection. Most aftermarket cold air intakes are fully compatible.

The first two power stages (6 & 8 psi) of ESS TS kits are designed from the ground up as a Do-It-Yourself install with no grinding, cutting, or otherwise permanent modification necessary while keeping a clean OEM appearance under the hood. These systems are even easier to install than centrifugal installations. From Stage 3 on, engine and exhaust modifications are necessary to take full advantage of the system’s capabilities.

Systems are already complete and are currently in 50,000 mile durability testing. They will be available by summer 2006!

ESS Twin Screw kits will then soon follow for M52/S52 engines used in the Z3 2.8/M-Roadster/M-Coupe, E36 323/328/M3 3.2 and E39 528 based on the same Twin Screw technology.

The following images are sneak peeks including the design of the custom intake manifold with Laminova core channels and a torque comparison dyno of the M54B30 3.0 liter engine stock vs 7psi centrifugal vs 7psi Twin Screw:

[BayerischeMW]

:yikes:

this looks like it's gonna be awesome! can't wait to see it. is the development based in Norway? if so i'll have to check it out :D

any price estimates?

[Mike Benvo]

That's going to be amazing... Nothing like a torquey motor. I'll be in touch. Nice talking to you guys today at bimmerfest.

[bernstem]

:drool: This should be sweet. The e36 guys are doing a lot of really nice things with the twin screw so it is nice to see it coming to the e46.

Any idea what the price is going to run?

[hubeldeen]

Sweet, I'm very excited ! :excited:

Any idea about the date of availability in the US market?

[fashionman0228]

How much...? I want one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zulu4]

that's just awesome!! you guys have PM.:thumbup:

[noBenz]

contact them directly at sales@esstuning.com. I'm sure they'll be very happy and excited to talk to you about it :)

[malakia12]

thats awesome news for you guys. I have heard awesome things about the E36 twin screw that AA has had out so I could only imagine how is would be on the e46. Great news for e46'ers:clap:

[sheefo2k]

The AA e36 twin screw beat a stock e46 easly..I also think the e36 was a 325, but i could be wrong. I have the video somewhere on my laptop

[Sales@ESS]

The prices have been set but will be revealed closer to actual release. They will be extremely competitive to currently available kits, if not better.

[Nico3k]

:drool: :yikes: :bow: :omg: :excited:
It was nice seeing you guys at Bfest... I can't wait for all these new products!

[redronin]

hmm excuse my ignorance but anyone care to explain to me how a "twin screw" system works?

[itchyNscratchy]

hmm excuse my ignorance but anyone care to explain to me how a "twin screw" system works?

http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/twin-screw-superchargers.html

[redronin]

http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/twin-screw-superchargers.html
^ thats interesting information but doesnt really explain the mechanics of it

i found this link that may be helpful to those who, like me, have never heard of a positive air displacement charger

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/supercharger4.htm

[Nico3k]

I am by no means knowledgeable in the FI field, but my understanding of a twin screw is that it bolts on as an intake manifold rather than being a standalone unit that is routed outside of the engine (no more piping going from the blower to the engine... it has VERY good throttle response)
As you can see from the dyno it makes lots of torque and it is also in full boost by 2000rpm.

[BayerischeMW]

from http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/twin-screw-superchargers.html :
"A positive displacement compressor is ideal for ... automatic transmissions."

what does this mean?

[redronin]

I am by no means knowledgeable in the FI field, but my understanding of a twin screw is that it bolts on as an intake manifold rather than being a standalone unit that is routed outside of the engine (no more piping going from the blower to the engine... it has VERY good throttle response)
As you can see from the dyno it makes lots of torque and it is also in full boost by 2000rpm.
according to howstuffworks, which is of course by no means a FI expert source, that centrifugal blowers are the most efficient type of supercharger

comments?

also wtf isnt there hp on that dyno??!?!?!?

[dirsh]

interesting

price?

[Nico3k]

according to howstuffworks, which is of course by no means a FI expert source, that centrifugal blowers are the most efficient type of supercharger

comments?

also wtf isnt there hp on that dyno??!?!?!?

It obviusly depends on the type of blower, but generally the twin screw blowers have more adiabatic efficiency than centrifugal (70-80% vs. 60-78%).

[Oshin02]

By looking at the new twim screw supercharger setup, it seems like you replace your whole intake manifold with this unit. By this design. ESS, did you guys match the intake rail size to match the exact intake port size as the cylinder head of the M52TU/M54?.....But once again, it looks great nad the numbers do as well.:thumbup:

[crazy1323]

I am going to guess that this is a no no for STEP owners, the torque would rip that transmission to shreds in an instant.

[bmw_chuzo]

I am going to guess that this is a no no for STEP owners, the torque would rip that transmission to shreds in an instant.

:cry:

[Ervin87]

Wow.
Exciting News.
:thumbup: to ESS.
Can't wait for more information and final release.

[TaZaM3]

It obviusly depends on the type of blower, but generally the twin screw blowers have more adiabatic efficiency than centrifugal (70-80% vs. 60-78%).


But they do suffer up top.

[BayerischeMW]

TaZaM3: how much compared to centrifugal compressors?

[TaZaM3]

TaZaM3: how much compared to centrifugal compressors?


In general twin screws die off up top. They make great low end -mid range though.

[Mike Benvo]

In general twin screws die off up top. They make great low end -mid range though.

Look @ the chart, it makes more torque than the centrufugal setup at any given the curve RPM. The twin screw curve looks more like the mathematical derivitive of the ASA compressors curve, which is expected because you can't have the best of both worlds.

[hammerfang]

I am going to guess that this is a no no for STEP owners, the torque would rip that transmission to shreds in an instant.

this is y it is better to shift ur own gears

[Asbjorn@ESS]

It will also be available for automatic transmissions. The fact that it makes peak torque earlier in the RPM band has no impact on the transmissions capacity to hold torque. It is the maximum torque that matters. We will also combine the TS Stage 2 kits with our automatic transmission software to increase the torque capacity of the transmission. It will however be restriced to 7PSI in the intercooled stage 2 kits, similar to our current TX2 ASA TM1 based kits to leave some safety margin. TS Stage 3 and 4 will be for manual/SMG only.

The Lysholm 1600 unit used in this kit provides superior power and efficiency at all RPM levels, I think TazaM3 refers to a roots setup like the Eatons, they drop off at higher RPM's. twin screws have the same or better power up top and TONS more power in the low and mid RPM range. Not to mention superior throttle response. The kit has also been designed to accept a Lysholm 2300 for a potential power output in the 650HP range for you crazy guys out there who can never get enough. The Laminova core manifold heat exchanger is flow tested with superior results up to 600HP. (pressure drop off less than 1.5PSI @ ~600HP on M54B30)

[Asbjorn@ESS]

The dyno is just a torque comparison between one of the most efficient centrifugal SC units available (ASA TM1-12, used in our TX line of systems) and the Lysholm 1600AX, both running 7PSI intercooled on a completely stock M54B30. Final power numbers for the upcoming TS kits and stages will be revealed when it is released.

[Asbjorn@ESS]

By looking at the new twim screw supercharger setup, it seems like you replace your whole intake manifold with this unit. By this design. ESS, did you guys match the intake rail size to match the exact intake port size as the cylinder head of the M52TU/M54?.....But once again, it looks great nad the numbers do as well.:thumbup:

Yes, it is built specifically for this engine and is a 100% match.

[TaZaM3]

Look @ the chart, it makes more torque than the centrufugal setup at any given the curve RPM. The twin screw curve looks more like the mathematical derivitive of the ASA compressors curve, which is expected because you can't have the best of both worlds.


Im not talking about TQ. :thumbup:

[redronin]

Im not talking about TQ. :thumbup:
now that im reading the dyno correctly (lol)

what is the tradeoff? seems FROM THE DYNO (marketing, i know) that the TS rapes the tm12 pretty badly accross the board.

im missing something im sure?

sorry for all the questions, trying to understand how these things work.

[TaZaM3]

now that im reading the dyno correctly (lol)

what is the tradeoff? seems FROM THE DYNO (marketing, i know) that the TS rapes the tm12 pretty badly accross the board.

im missing something im sure?

sorry for all the questions, trying to understand how these things work.


That Dyno is just TQ.

[imolazhp_ci]

aren't AMG cars twin screw?

[redronin]

That Dyno is just TQ.
ya i know, im asking where the twin screw falls short in relation to centrifugal compressors?

(whats the downside to them)

im guessing top end the TS drops off in the HP?
would make sense for the tq only dyno

[E46NorCal]

subscribed

also looking at the new turbo systems coming out from technik and aa. :clap:

[TxZHP04]

In general twin screws die off up top. They make great low end -mid range though.

Sorry, don't see it. Perhaps you should check out some of Eurosport's TS dynos. I think you may be giving redronin the wrong impression....

http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/TSmedia.html

[TxZHP04]

ya i know, im asking where the twin screw falls short in relation to centrifugal compressors?

(whats the downside to them)

The downside is that a TS kit costs more than a centri. And because you're into full boost so much sooner, you'll probably notice increased fuel consumption over the centri in normal driving.

[redronin]

The downside is that a TS kit costs more than a centri. And because you're into full boost so much sooner, you'll probably notice increased fuel consumption over the centri in normal driving.
neither of those are what i would call falling short


i hate gas, i try to burn it as quickly as possible :craig:


besides, how do you know what a ts costs? ESS claims competitive compared to the centri kits that are out now (which admittedly range from 5k-10k)

[noBenz]

neither of those are what i would call falling short


i hate gas, i try to burn it as quickly as possible :craig:


besides, how do you know what a ts costs? ESS claims competitive compared to the centri kits that are out now (which admittedly range from 5k-10k)

negative, comparitie to toher TS kits out :read:

[TxZHP04]

neither of those are what i would call falling short
They're not big issues to me either, but they could be to some. You asked where the TS fell short of the centri, so I offered up the most negative issues I could think of.


how do you know what a ts costs?
Don't know what the TS from ESS is going to cost.

However, I do know that Eurosport and AA are charging $8500 (ignoring special introductory prices) for their e36 M3 TS kits. The closest apples to apples price comparison I can offer is to look at AA's existing product lineup for the e36 m3.

AA e36 m3 centri kit: $5700
AA e36 m3 stage I TS (non-intercooled) kit: $6500
AA e36 m3 stage II TS (intercooled) kit: $8500

Generally speaking, a twin screw kit will be more expensive (at the same volume of sales) because it costs more to design and fabricate an intake manifold. The centri uses the stock intake manifold. Again, ESS has not announced pricing on their TS so we don't know what they will charge for their kit. Intercooled, I'm guessing in the 8-9k range unless they plan to sell at a loss or can turn a higher volume (they do have a good euro customer base).

Also, I don't believe that ESS said their pricing would be comparable to existing CENTRI kits, just existing kits. You assumed centri, I would assume they were referring to the 2 existing TS kits for the e36 m3.

::EDIT::

Ah, here's the quote from ESS I was looking for

The prices have been set but will be revealed closer to actual release. They will be extremely competitive to currently available kits, if not better.

[kpeng]

Can you tell us more details about the kit being developed for the auto transmission? How much power will it make? How much testing is going into it?

-Ken

[redronin]

They're not big issues to me either, but they could be to some. You asked where the TS fell short of the centri, so I offered up the most negative issues I could think of.

no doubt, wasnt saying you were wrong, taza just sounded like he had some more to contribute to the debate and i was curious :thumbup:

gotcha on the price too, i was thinking they were speaking in relation to other e46 FI kits


interesting to see how this does. im always excited for competition, and more options for the e46 :woot:

[redronin]

negative, comparitie to toher TS kits out :read:
lol no offense nobenz but i always laugh when it seems like you get all excited in your posts and your fingers cant keep up with your mind :rofl:

[MarvelPhx]

This may help explain a TS and the other systems...

www.my330i.com/boost.php

[noBenz]

lol no offense nobenz but i always laugh when it seems like you get all excited in your posts and your fingers cant keep up with your mind :rofl:

LOL I know... I'm like a kid in a candy store :(

[Sales@ESS]

Also, I don't believe that ESS said their pricing would be comparable to existing CENTRI kits, just existing kits. You assumed centri, I would assume they were referring to the 2 existing TS kits for the e36 m3.

Actually, we are talking about current centrifugal kit pricing. :thumbup:

[Sales@ESS]

That Dyno is just TQ.

We didn't choose to show HP on the comparison dyno as wanted to show "under the curve" difference between the compressor types and would have resulted in 6 graph plots. Too confusing. HP is just a function of torque (work) over time (rpm) anyway.

You can figure HP from the dyno if you want, it will be higher across the board than a similiar centrifugal:

HP = Torque X RPM
-------------
5252

The TS does more work (torque) at all RPMs (time), resulting in higher HP.

[TaZaM3]

Just post the HP dyno, i like HP not TQ.

[Sales@ESS]

Just post the HP dyno, i like HP not TQ.

Sure... just remember, this is at 7psi... the kits will be 6 psi stage 1 and 8 psi stage 2.

[TxZHP04]

Actually, we are talking about current centrifugal kit pricing. :thumbup:

:clap:

[TxZHP04]

ESS,

You know the suspense is going to kill us between now and the official release. Can you share any under hood pics yet?

[LAFENGAS]

ESS, YOU GUYS SUCK!!!! :neener:

ha... it figures... the day I get my s/c installed you guys create a thread with a new, better S/C. my luck is awesome. Any deals if we trade in our old s/c for a new one? :dunno:

[Nico3k]

This is going to be amazing! I just have a couple of questions...

-Will both the stage I and II be intercooled or only stage I?

-How hard is the installation compared to centrifugal kits? Do you recommend professional installation, or can someone with basic knowledge do this themself?

-What other performance modifications do you think compliment the TS system the best? Headers or cams perhaps? What kind of additional gains do you think will be realized from the(se) mod(s)?

Thanks; very excited here... can't wait to get my hands on one of these kits :)

[Mo' speed]

Sure... just remember, this is at 7psi... the kits will be 6 psi stage 1 and 8 psi stage 2.
When I compare the HP and TQ curves it looks as though the TS curves do not have a "dip" at the 4k rpm mark, whereas the ASA s/c and NA curves do. Is it just me or does anyone else also see this as significant?

[redronin]

When I compare the HP and TQ curves it looks as though the TS curves do not have a "dip" at the 4k rpm mark, whereas the ASA s/c and NA curves do. Is it just me or does anyone else also see this as significant?
dont speak of the 4k dip, youll anger the e46 gods... :eeps:

[crazy1323]

I am pretty sure that the only cars that suffer the "dip" are ZHP cars. ESS, could another, larger displacement, blower be attached such as a weiand 6-71. If something like a 2.5L blower were attached you could take down corvettes no problem, twisties and starights. Also, when will someone make a good transmission kit for our cars. I am a STEP ownwer, not my choice, and I am limited in power by my transmission. A full conversion is still to expensive until trasmission prices come down and it kills the value of the car.

[bernstem]

When I compare the HP and TQ curves it looks as though the TS curves do not have a "dip" at the 4k rpm mark, whereas the ASA s/c and NA curves do. Is it just me or does anyone else also see this as significant?

Perhaps this is because the twinscrew uses a new intake manifold and replaces the DISA valve...

[TxZHP04]

When I compare the HP and TQ curves it looks as though the TS curves do not have a "dip" at the 4k rpm mark, whereas the ASA s/c and NA curves do. Is it just me or does anyone else also see this as significant?

Yeah, getting rid of the BMW dual resonance intake also gets rid of its switchover (and the associated "dip") @ 4k rpm.

I am pretty sure that the only cars that suffer the "dip" are ZHP cars.

This dyno was posted for their non-ZHP option 330i 8psi centrifugal kit.
If this dyno was definitely for a regular 330i and not the ZHP, you can see the dip in both the stock and their centrifugal SC setups.
http://www.esstuning.com/admin/upload/20041111043138.jpg

[Sales@ESS]

If you look very closely in the dyno in Post #1, you can see the system.

I will release some nice photos soon for everyone.


-Will both the stage I and II be intercooled or only stage I?

-How hard is the installation compared to centrifugal kits? Do you recommend professional installation, or can someone with basic knowledge do this themself?

-What other performance modifications do you think compliment the TS system the best? Headers or cams perhaps? What kind of additional gains do you think will be realized from the(se) mod(s)?

Stage 1 is non-intercooled, but is prepped for it. The intake has the tubes for the Laminova cores already, so you slip them in and you have stage 2. Makes upgrading Stage 1 at a later time easy. The same compressor is used up to stage 4, so you can upgrade 1,2,3,4 without ever changing the manifold or compressor.

The installation is incredibly easy. There is no IC tubing, no mounting bracket like the ASA, no oil lines, etc. The compressor and intake are shipped pre-assembled, so you remove your factory intake, mount the TS, put in injectors, new belt, software and go drive it. Stage 2 will require running the water lines and mounting the marine pump and exchanger up front. Very, very DIY.

Anything that lets the engine breath better, especially on the exhaust side will compliment this system. Headers, cams, etc will still provide similiar gains as the centrifugal kits, but with better results lower in the RPMs.

4k DIP: We remove the DISA valve all together so the 4k dip is gone. BTW, the 4k dip is not specific to ZHP.

ESS, could another, larger displacement, blower be attached such as a weiand 6-71. If something like a 2.5L blower were attached you could take down corvettes no problem, twisties and starights.

Funny you should ask, we are currently testing the 2.3L TS on the M54B30 and you are looking at 600+ HP on maybe a stage 4 Extreme Edition kit. Full internals, higher redline, fuel pump, cams, headers, head work, etc. The limiting factor is the cost involved and the whether the market would support such a engine system.

[DAI Msports]

:thumbup:

[Tommyboy]

wow, looks very promising. i knew i waited to get an SC for a reason

[2K5 325i]

Wow.

Cant wait to see prices!

[TxZHP04]

Anything that lets the engine breath better, especially on the exhaust side will compliment this system.

At what point does the factory air box become a limiting factor?

BTW, I really like the fact that you plan to retain the factory air box. I definitely don't need the added noise or risk of hydrolocking the engine that come with the intakes on the centrifugal systems.

[noBenz]

ESS, YOU GUYS SUCK!!!! :neener:

ha... it figures... the day I get my s/c installed you guys create a thread with a new, better S/C. my luck is awesome. Any deals if we trade in our old s/c for a new one? :dunno:


:banghead: :banghead: :ben: :ben: :ben: :ben:
I'm in the same boat as you buddy LOL. Anyone up to buy a stage 2 SC kit for a 325>??? LOL

[Sales@ESS]

At what point does the factory air box become a limiting factor?

BTW, I really like the fact that you plan to retain the factory air box. I definitely don't need the added noise or risk of hydrolocking the engine that come with the intakes on the centrifugal systems.

All the way to stage 4, the factory airbox works flawlessly. BMW spends a lot of R&D money on the induction system. It is very good.

Aftermarket CAIs can still be used if desired as the MAF stays in the same location as before install, but we tested over 10 different models and found that they aren't as good all around as the stock unit.

[BimmerDude18]

All the way to stage 4, the factory airbox works flawlessly. BMW spends a lot of R&D money on the induction system. It is very good.

Aftermarket CAIs can still be used if desired as the MAF stays in the same location as before install, but we tested over 10 different models and found that they aren't as good all around as the stock unit.
I'm really curious - do you have any side by side dynos on just cars with software. I keep telling myself that an intake isn't worth the money because the stock airbox is fine. Then someone who "knows more than me" tells me to get an intake and I'm backt o sqaure one.

[crazy1323]

what kind of blower are you going to use with the M3 kit. That sounds awesome. I have a '71 charger with a 426 HEMI and a 8-71 blower, that thing is crazy on low end but almost seems to die out alot at the top end. I know this is because the cams but what will the response be from an engine that likes higher revs such as the M54B30. Also, would you reccomend the Technik cams with this kit.

[Yellowmann]

It will also be available for automatic transmissions. The fact that it makes peak torque earlier in the RPM band has no impact on the transmissions capacity to hold torque. It is the maximum torque that matters. We will also combine the TS Stage 2 kits with our automatic transmission software to increase the torque capacity of the transmission. It will however be restriced to 7PSI in the intercooled stage 2 kits, similar to our current TX2 ASA TM1 based kits to leave some safety margin. TS Stage 3 and 4 will be for manual/SMG only.

The Lysholm 1600 unit used in this kit provides superior power and efficiency at all RPM levels, I think TazaM3 refers to a roots setup like the Eatons, they drop off at higher RPM's. twin screws have the same or better power up top and TONS more power in the low and mid RPM range. Not to mention superior throttle response. The kit has also been designed to accept a Lysholm 2300 for a potential power output in the 650HP range for you crazy guys out there who can never get enough. The Laminova core manifold heat exchanger is flow tested with superior results up to 600HP. (pressure drop off less than 1.5PSI @ ~600HP on M54B30)

So us step owner has some hope here??

[bimmer328ci]

All the way to stage 4, the factory airbox works flawlessly. BMW spends a lot of R&D money on the induction system. It is very good.

Aftermarket CAIs can still be used if desired as the MAF stays in the same location as before install, but we tested over 10 different models and found that they aren't as good all around as the stock unit.

I am wondering if you have tested the bfp intake with the system because i would prefer to keep this intake as i like the sound of it and the looks that it adds to my engine bay. If you did test it could you give me some info on how that intake worked out.


I also want to know how much is a resonable idea of the difference in hp between 7psi and 8psi for the kit just so i can get an idea of what kind of hp we can make with the stage 2 kit.

Overall this sounds great though, I have been contacting existing companies about if they planned to make a ts kit for the e46 and had gotten a bunch of no's but we will email you if we ever do reply's. This is a relief as i was nearly going to resort to installing a centrifugal supercharger:clap:. Oh and could you please come out with the stage 4 kit i would be glad to upgrade from the stage 2 to that the second i have the money for it:),

[Nico3k]

Thanks for answering my questions. The DIY factor will defenately be a big plus when you market this product; people will be happy to know that they can save even more money and won't have to spend another 1000$ on installation.

[RichP]

This makes me want to get an E46 again, positive displacement blowers are THE way to go for FI. (Unless you want the benefits+issues of turbo)

[rendered]

So is this twin screw going to be the better option, cost, and efficiency wise for people like me who want 370+ RWHP without going with an extreme engine internals upgrade?

Will this be a better option over Tecknik, and Active Autowerks?

[ZBMWFAN]

So is this twin screw going to be the better option, cost, and efficiency wise for people like me who want 370+ RWHP without going with an extreme engine internals upgrade?

Will this be a better option over Tecknik, and Active Autowerks?

The peak power gain looks like it will be similar to the other ASA-based kits, so +370RWHP is probably still going to require extensive engine upgrades beyond the SC. The outstanding advantages of the twin screw are substantial gains in both torque and hp in the 2K-5K band and the simpler install.

[TxZHP04]

I know some SC kits on other BMW models run into various issues that cause certain factory options to become inoperative or they have to be deleted. Will this new ESS TS kit impact anything like cruise control, DSC, gas mileage and miles to empty as displayed by the MID? Just wondering what to expect.

[Sales@ESS]

I have a '71 charger with a 426 HEMI and a 8-71 blower, that thing is crazy on low end but almost seems to die out alot at the top end. I know this is because the cams but what will the response be from an engine that likes higher revs such as the M54B30. Also, would you reccomend the Technik cams with this kit.

The 8-71 from Weiand is a Roots compressor (not a twin screw at all) and completely different than a Lysholm design. The Lysholm was created specificially to not only make the low and mid range power of the roots, but also the high speed efficiency of the centrifugal. I cannot say about Technik cams, we have not tested them.

I also want to know how much is a resonable idea of the difference in hp between 7psi and 8psi for the kit just so i can get an idea of what kind of hp we can make with the stage 2 kit.

Oh and could you please come out with the stage 4 kit

Power numbers will be revealed soon, you won't be disappointed. And the Stage 4 and Stage 4 Extreme Edition are definitely coming.

So is this twin screw going to be the better option, cost, and efficiency wise for people like me who want 370+ RWHP without going with an extreme engine internals upgrade?

Will this be a better option over Tecknik, and Active Autowerks

To get that type of power, you are looking at engine internals. Minimum of lower CR pistons and normally more. Plain and simple. It is not safe, reliable, or accurate to assume otherwise. Our higher stages of the TS make 370+ rwhp you are looking for.

As for Technik or AA, that is your decision to make. Compare the products, drive the cars, feel the software difference, and decide for yourself.

I know some SC kits on other BMW models run into various issues that cause certain factory options to become inoperative or they have to be deleted. Will this new ESS TS kit impact anything like cruise control, DSC, gas mileage and miles to empty as displayed by the MID? Just wondering what to expect.

Cruise, DSC, etc will work fine, they are unaffected by a TS. Gas mileage will depend on how heavy your foot becomes and range/avg MPG is a simple adjustment in the instrument cluster to compensate the signal for the larger injectors.

[ATLZHP6M]

I want to see some pictures!!! :hi:

Also, I was wondering if it is possible to buy a second DME unit and have it programmed by you guys to keep the stock DME untouched????

I'm thinking of having an extra one as a spare in case I need to go back to stock for any given reason. Plus my ride is a daily driver and I can't afford to have sit in the garage for days while I wait for the DME to be returned.

Is this possible?

[stylinexpat]

When I compare the HP and TQ curves it looks as though the TS curves do not have a "dip" at the 4k rpm mark, whereas the ASA s/c and NA curves do. Is it just me or does anyone else also see this as significant?


No one mentioned that being a 330 ZHP Model car

[stylinexpat]

Will this kit fit into the new BMW E87 130?

[redronin]

Will this kit fit into the new BMW E87 130?
why do you have one? if so, whered you get it?

[stylinexpat]

why do you have one? if so, whered you get it?

I have one here in Taiwan:) I also have the E46 330 in California:)

[crazy1323]

Thanks for clearing that Up, Have you noticed any difference in the time it takes for the engine to drop revs due to the added momentum of the rotating lobes. Where will the heat exchanger be mounted.

[TxZHP04]

Have you noticed any difference in the time it takes for the engine to drop revs due to the added momentum of the rotating lobes.

I would have to imagine that the difference would be small potatoes relative to the moment of inertia of the flywheel.

[Mike Benvo]

I would have to imagine that the difference would be small potatoes relative to the moment of inertia of the flywheel.

Yep.

A LTW flywheel would definitly be a complementary upgrade since the factory dual mass flywheel is over 25LBS

[Sales@ESS]

Also, I was wondering if it is possible to buy a second DME unit and have it programmed by you guys to keep the stock DME untouched????

Of course. We can do that for you.

Will this kit fit into the new BMW E87 130?

Yep, if its a M52TU/M54, they will fit. The kit is chassis independant, Z4, X3, X5, E60, etc. There are very minor differences between all of them using the same engine.

Have you noticed any difference in the time it takes for the engine to drop revs due to the added momentum of the rotating lobes. Where will the heat exchanger be mounted.

No. The lobes are a relatively small rotating mass. There is parasitic drag of course, as with any supercharger, but the gains far outpace the drag induced on the engine. The water heat exchanger on stage 2 and up is mounted in the same place as you would find a typical air/air intercooler for maximum airflow.

[crazy1323]

can we see some pics of the TS system on the car and some pics of the charger alone.

[SHV]

Is it this one maybe? :dunno:


http://www.opconab.com/www/files/lysholm/produkter/1600a/1600A.jpg

[stylinexpat]

Of course. We can do that for you.



Yep, if its a M52TU/M54, they will fit. The kit is chassis independant, Z4, X3, X5, E60, etc. There are very minor differences between all of them using the same engine.



No. The lobes are a relatively small rotating mass. There is parasitic drag of course, as with any supercharger, but the gains far outpace the drag induced on the engine. The water heat exchanger on stage 2 and up is mounted in the same place as you would find a typical air/air intercooler for maximum airflow.

All the new BMW'S use the N52B30A Engine, don't they? From 05 or 06 on up for the 130,330, 530, 630,& 730. I guess that Supercharger is for all the older versions and not the newer version Engines that are out:cry:

[Sales@ESS]

Is it this one maybe? :dunno:


http://www.opconab.com/www/files/lysholm/produkter/1600a/1600A.jpg

Getting warmer! :thumbup:

All the new BMW'S use the N52B30A Engine, don't they? From 05 or 06 on up for the 130,330, 530, 630,& 730. I guess that Supercharger is for all the older versions and not the newer version Engines that are out

Correct, this system is not intended for the new Valvetronic engines.

[PaleRider]

I have a 330ci ZHP with a production date of 10/05. Do you make a supercharger for my model? I looked up your web site but saw 2 different years posted for ZHP models, on the side bar showing up to 05 but when that selection is marked the model year drops to 04.

[Sales@ESS]

I have a 330ci ZHP with a production date of 10/05. Do you make a supercharger for my model? I looked up your web site but saw 2 different years posted for ZHP models, on the side bar showing up to 05 but when that selection is marked the model year drops to 04.

Yes, the current TX1 and TX2 are available for your car right now.

[PaleRider]

Thanks, will the new screw-charger be available for my engine? Thanks for your reply

[Sales@ESS]

Thanks, will the new screw-charger be available for my engine? Thanks for your reply

Yes, the 06 330 coupe is still a M54. It will not fit on the new E90s.

[KP]

Good to see you guys come up with it, it's about time.
Was waiting for Eurosport to start it up, but never happened.
Curious, but what intake system are you guys using? Similar to the Conforti setup? Or a hose snorkel type?

[KP]

can we see some pics of the TS system on the car and some pics of the charger alone.

Eurosport's kit on an S52:
http://www.sharked.com/Images/supercharger/411_Installed_medium.jpg

[BayerischeMW]

oh, i can't wait for this to be fully introduced! full specs, prices, pictures, steptronic compliance etc.

hurry! :)

[Ervin87]

Setup looks sweet. Oem kind of.
:thumbup:

[Jimi158]

What's the noise level like since you're retaining the stock airbox? I would assume that it is quieter than AA's for the e36, but I'm really hoping it would be quiet enough to keep my 323 a dangerous little sleeper.

-Ross

[TaZaM3]

System sounds cool! Twin screws whine pretty loud.

[Boltline]

System sounds cool! Twin screws whine pretty loud.
I am on my toes, I can’t wait for specs and how it sounds!!! :drool:

[Sales@ESS]

Actually, a development requirement of our manifold and compressor spec was to control the typically noisy twin screw sound. Normally, they make "popping" or "metallic bubbling" sounds as they release compressed pockets of air into the manifold.

But by us adjusting the compressor exhuast port shape and the internals of our intake manifold, in conjunction with the stock airbox configuration, the best way to describe it is a "low rumble" now. Like having a V8 under the hood. Subtle, but you know it is there when you step on it.

[netengwiz]

Ok, now you are just teasing us :drool: So cruel.

[schutney]

what are the expected number outputs for an 03 325i? in rwhp?
do u guys figure ur guys' sales will take a bit of a hit with people anticipating the release of the Horsepower Freaks Turbo Kit?

[jdm3]

do u guys figure ur guys' sales will take a bit of a hit with people anticipating the release of the Horsepower Freaks Turbo Kit?
^^^:lmao: ^^^ Are you kidding me .
You have not reed or payed any attention on this thread so far , have YOU ?
When this T.S kit comes out there is NOTHING that is going to be able compete with it . Nothing .
The only thing that might hurt the sales is the supply and demand . :lmao: :lmao:

[schutney]

^^^:lmao: ^^^ Are you kidding me .
You have not reed or payed any attention on this thread so far , have YOU ?
When this T.S kit comes out there is NOTHING that is going to be able compete with it . Nothing .
The only thing that might hurt the sales is the supply and demand . :lmao: :lmao:

How do you know the turbo kit wont compete?
I was not asking for your response but rather someone from ESS, thanks for the childish response, what are you 12?

[redronin]

^^^:lmao: ^^^ Are you kidding me .
You have not reed or payed any attention on this thread so far , have YOU ?
When this T.S kit comes out there is NOTHING that is going to be able compete with it . Nothing .
The only thing that might hurt the sales is the supply and demand . :lmao: :lmao:
what are you even talking about. no one knows anything about the kit. we are all excited, but you apparently are either

1. on the inside and know many things we do not
or
2. completely retarded.

[redronin]

p.s. as to the HPfreaks hit comment, i doubt much will affect, either boost, or kill current sales until these kits are proven over and over again. VERY excited to see yet another option for tq junkies.

but this is a long road, and right now seems to be just the beginning, so dont anyone get ahead of themselves (i think we can all think of several examples)

[jdm3]

How do you know the turbo kit wont compete?
I was not asking for your response but rather someone from ESS, thanks for the childish response, what are you 12?
Please , lets not ruin this thread like its a KOBE vs MJ in the off topic section.
With that I would like to be very mature and answer your question.
I am 30 years old , and I dont think you have any idea as I mentioned before but not in a wrong way to insult you , BUT , again you have proven to me that you dont have any idea what T.S is capabile of .
Now if your addressing ESS , hasnt your mom taught you if you dont have something nice to say then dont say anything at all .
Why would you ask ESS
do u guys figure ur guys' sales will take a bit of a hit with people anticipating the release of the Horsepower Freaks Turbo Kit?
What do you think there reply is going to be , OH YA we are very concerned and just because of this we are going to stop our production on this products becuase horse power freaks ,, whatever ,, you get my point.
ESS is a very good reputable company .
They have proven over and over agian that they can come through with their products and promises , nevertheless they are not a company thats going to make false promises and come up with ever excuse after they introduce a product .
For example a certain sponser on this forum , OH we are working on the MS 45 software it takes over gazillion hours to finish the MS 43 but now we are going to be working on the MS45s , then why would you advertize the software or claim that you have the software .
Another example , we have seen another sponser on here claiming their TURBO's putting out 1000hp , they made a big hype about it , now a certain sponser that has won the FREE SO CALLED Turbo , has recieved one piece last month and then his recieved the intercooler last week , a bolt last monday and now he is building his own pipings and there is no idea where the other parts are .
So when you ask *ESS* not me , if they are going to be concerned , I will personally answer your question by saying .
I will wait to see what HP freaks Kit has , I would love to see a few cars with the kits on them , I would love to see some dynos and reliability of their kits .
Everyone claims to be a tuner on these forums .
They blow smoke up everyones A$$ how they write their own software and have their own kits , but when the time comes they are all talk .
Me personally I would CHOOSE the T.S over any Turbo or centrifugal kits , especially if its built by a reputiable company like ESS .
Now if you have any other outburst like this then be an ADULT and P.M me .
Thank You .

[jdm3]

what are you even talking about. no one knows anything about the kit. we are all excited, but you apparently are either

1. on the inside and know many things we do not
or
2. completely retarded.
You guys need to Chill the :censor: out .
How is this a technical question.
do u guys figure ur guys' sales will take a bit of a hit with people anticipating the release of the Horsepower Freaks Turbo Kit?
Its a stupid childish remark .
Now if you havent heard about the T.S system then maybe you should go back to the last three pages and read a link someone posted about the difference on F.I better yet let me repost it for you.
Its not like ESS is the first company ever to build a T.S kit , they are the first to built it for the M54 and so on and so , also they are the first company to built a T.S kit that can also be proramed with MS43 and MS45 and so on and so on.
So if your asking questions about the T.S kit fine , but when you make stupid remarks as to if this kit is not going to do well because so and so has a turbo then your the IDIOT .
http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/twin-screw-superchargers.html

[jdm3]

but this is a long road, and right now seems to be just the beginning, so dont anyone get ahead of themselves (i think we can all think of several examples)
WOW that was deep :thumbup: , any ways back to the subject .
Any Idea on the release date for the S54s.
Also will ESS use the T.S system on the N62 engines .
I can only imagine the H.Ps with T.S setup on that engine.
Thanks

[2K323CI]

but this is a long road, and right now seems to be just the beginning, so dont anyone get ahead of themselves (i think we can all think of several examples)

LOL That was very touching. It catually sounded a little , YOU KNOW.

I do see jdm3s point , what I think his trying to say is that there are a lot of companys out there that hype up there products , but as far as this its looks like its going to be a very good system. Also T.S has been around for a long time .
On the Euro cars as I can recall Eurosport was one the first to come out for the M50s and S50 engines but I know they a very expensive.
I dont think that HF turbos are going to hurt any sales of this kit , I think the public (fanatics) are actually going to choose the T.S over the Turbo simply cause its a better setup and we are aware of the ESS's capability to program their own software .

[TaZaM3]

PROVEN kits are the only things that should compete. Everything else is just talk and heresay.

We cannot argue the TS kit and the Turbo kit. Both aren't released and as far as im concerned not proven as a setup yet.

[Sales@ESS]

WOW that was deep :thumbup: , any ways back to the subject .
Any Idea on the release date for the S54s.
Also will ESS use the T.S system on the N62 engines .
I can only imagine the H.Ps with T.S setup on that engine.
Thanks

The S54 TS is indeed in R&D, but don't get excited just yet.

As for the N62s, they will be very difficult to boost much due to the complexity and error-checking of the Valetronic components. Again, we are always working on it.

[BayerischeMW]

PROVEN kits are the only things that should compete. Everything else is just talk and heresay.

We cannot argue the TS kit and the Turbo kit. Both aren't released and as far as im concerned not proven as a setup yet.

that is true, but given ESS' reputation, i don't think we'll receive something not up to par.

[TaZaM3]

that is true, but given ESS' reputation, i don't think we'll receive something not up to par.

I know what ESS is capable of and i never said that it wont be good. The fact is its not even on 3+ cars (prob) and i doubt its been tested for a year. Its not proven nor is it released. This is just a thread to hype a product that may make it in to the market.

[stylinexpat]

The S54 TS is indeed in R&D, but don't get excited just yet.

As for the N62s, they will be very difficult to boost much due to the complexity and error-checking of the Valetronic components. Again, we are always working on it.

That means as of now that there is nothing for the new E90 nd E87 models with the 3 liter engine in them?:dunno:

[Sales@ESS]

I know what ESS is capable of and i never said that it wont be good. The fact is its not even on 3+ cars (prob) and i doubt its been tested for a year. Its not proven nor is it released. This is just a thread to hype a product that may make it in to the market.

Thank you Vik. Actually, the TS has been running through development on our Z4 (now wearing Stage 4 by the way) for over 2 years to get it perfect. And it is definitely coming to market, otherwise we are wasting a lot of money! :yikes:

[jdm3]

I know what ESS is capable of and i never said that it wont be good. The fact is its not even on 3+ cars (prob) and i doubt its been tested for a year. Its not proven nor is it released. This is just a thread to hype a product that may make it in to the market.
True true , but Vic even though we know your using the Active S/C and how devoted you are to AA , if you didnt have Actives kit and you had a choice . Would you go with the T.S or would you stay with the centrifugal kit .
Be honest and I really would like to hear your pros and cons on it ?

[jdm3]

=
As for the N62s, they will be very difficult to boost much due to the complexity and error-checking of the Valetronic components. Again, we are always working on it.
Would you care to explain even at lower boost let say 5.5 psi , sorry for all the questions but when ever you guys are on line its very educating especially when it comes to F.I or software. :thumbup:

[TaZaM3]

Thank you Vik. Actually, the TS has been running through development on our Z4 (now wearing Stage 4 by the way) for over 2 years to get it perfect. And it is definitely coming to market, otherwise we are wasting a lot of money! :yikes:


Thats very good to hear. Thats the right way to do it. I look forward to seeing these kits. I like T.S. but always thought they lost some power up top. How does the boost come and and peak at?

Also i heard a T.S. would be very difficult on a S54, is that not correct?

[TaZaM3]

True true , but Vic even though we know your using the Active S/C and how devoted you are to AA , if you didnt have Actives kit and you had a choice . Would you go with the T.S or would you stay with the centrifugal kit .
Be honest and I really would like to hear your pros and cons on it ?

Depends on which one makes good power and is reliable. The T.S. kits on the E36's look very promising and im sure this will also. The only choice for the M3 for me is quite clear, its either AA or ESS at the moment. I chose AA becuase they are closer and there kits seem to be out there being proven.

[jdm3]

Depends on which one makes good power and is reliable. The T.S. kits on the E36's look very promising and im sure this will also. The only choice for the M3 for me is quite clear, its either AA or ESS at the moment. I chose AA becuase they are closer and there kits seem to be out there being proven.
Active also has the T.S kit for the S50s and M50s by the way when I say 50s I am talking about the 52s also .
It doesnt seem like there has been a lot of those kits on the market , also is that actives kit or is the Eurosports?
I have reed in the past posts that with ESS T.S kit , they have worked on the top end issue , does ESS have anything to say on the loss of the top end ?

[TaZaM3]

Active also has the T.S kit for the S50s and M50s by the way when I say 50s I am talking about the 52s also .
It doesnt seem like there has been a lot of those kits on the market , also is that actives kit or is the Eurosports?
I have reed in the past posts that with ESS T.S kit , they have worked on the top end issue , does ESS have anything to say on the loss of the top end ?

AA has the T.S kit for the E36 M3's only. They released it only recently. I would either go turbo or T.S. on the E36 M3.

[jdm3]

AA has the T.S kit for the E36 M3's only.
Really why only the M3 ?

[Sales@ESS]

Would you care to explain even at lower boost let say 5.5 psi , sorry for all the questions but when ever you guys are on line its very educating especially when it comes to F.I or software. :thumbup:

It has to do with boost not letting the valves close in the required amount of time to not fault the Valvetronic. It is not impossible however. :thumbup: The Valvetronic is an amazing system, just not boost friendly.

I like T.S. but always thought they lost some power up top. How does the boost come and and peak at?

Also i heard a T.S. would be very difficult on a S54, is that not correct?

The TS boost comes up fast and stays steady max from about 2k to redline. No drop off. You may be thinking of a Whipple/Roots blower which have very low top end efficiency. Roots blowers like those used in professional drag racing are very, very different from the Lysholm Twin Screw we use.

The S54 actually loves the twin screw and makes crazy power on stock internals but playing with the MSS54 throttle system is very delicate work to keep stock or better drivability with positive displacement. And as always, if it is not perfect, we won't release it.

[jdm3]

Whipple/Roots blower, Roots blowers , Lysholm Twin Screw


Do you have any pics or sources that we can actually see the internals of these blowers ?
Thanks In advance . :thumbup:

[OCswedishM3]

True true , but Vic even though we know your using the Active S/C and how devoted you are to AA , if you didnt have Actives kit and you had a choice . Would you go with the T.S or would you stay with the centrifugal kit .
Be honest and I really would like to hear your pros and cons on it ?

I agree with Vik's comment too. When i was deciding the last 2 that it came down to was AA and ESS. I also wanted the most power for my money as well as reliability, and AA's stage II kit is more powerful than ESS's stage II kit. I know from dyno sheets and i know from real life experience. Also AA's in Miami while ESS was in Norway. Im glad they decided to open shop in SD, i live there. Cant wait to see the T.S. kits but it would be nicer if they came out with the kit for the M3 first...haha. Anyways if i had an e46 330 i know what T.S. kit i would go with.

[stimpee]

The TS boost comes up fast and stays steady max from about 2k to redline. No drop off. You may be thinking of a Whipple/Roots blower which have very low top end efficiency. Roots blowers like those used in professional drag racing are very, very different from the Lysholm Twin Screw we use.


Whipple compressor = Lysholm compressor since about 1999-2000 and up until about 6 months ago. Whipple was the exclusive North American Distributor of the Lysholm compressors. So, if the Whipple "blower" has low top end efficiency, then so does your Lysholm, since they are identical save for possible modifications to the outlet porting that you mentioned... :D

Eaton blowers are a modified roots type though.


AA has the T.S kit for the E36 M3's only. They released it only recently. I would either go turbo or T.S. on the E36 M3.

The Active TS will fit all US based E36 engines. We currently have tuning and testing done on the S52B32 US OBDII M3 engine, and the M50tu 2.5L engine used in the US OBDI 325s. We will be completing the S50B30US tuning in the very near future, and likely that the M52 will follow as soon as we get the software done. The hardware is identical and has been in development for over 5 years, and in testing for over 3 years FWIW...

Steve

[noBenz]

Whipple compressor = Lysholm compressor since about 1999-2000 and up until about 6 months ago. Whipple was the exclusive North American Distributor of the Lysholm compressors. So, if the Whipple "blower" has low top end efficiency, then so does your Lysholm, since they are identical save for possible modifications to the outlet porting that you mentioned... :D

Steve

I think they are doing the testing in Norway... So that negates your equation.

[stimpee]

I think they are doing the testing in Norway... So that negates your equation.

Wrong.

It has NO impact on my equation.

FACT: ESS is using a 1.6L Lysholm compressor

FACT: Whipple was the Exclusive North American Distributor for the SRM/Lysholm compressors until 6-9 months ago

FACT: The Whipple compressor isn't or wasn't EVER a Roots type blower.

The only impact the location of the testing has on this particular discussion, is that if ESS sourced their compressors from Europe, they would not have purchased them thru Whipple, but directly from SRM/Lysholm, or perhaps through another (European) distributor.

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/content.asp?PageID=80

http://www.opconab.com/index.asp?cID=10&langID=2&sPage=1

Please continue to think I am wrong if you like....

[noBenz]

Whipple compressor = Lysholm compressor since about 1999-2000 and up until about 6 months ago.

Steve


Whipple = Lysholm IF it is imported into the US, b/c whipple has sole distribution rights.

ESS is NOT importing them into the U.S. and then exporting them out to Norway. Directly from Lysholm

Therefore Lysholm != whipple.

Its a technicality but true... stop getting so upset

[Active Autowerke II]

To keep everybody udated Active does have the Twin Screw system for the E36 models. The kits are being offered at introductory prices of $5900 for level I 360 BHP and $7900 Level II 418 Bhp. Avoid disappointment and order now...Here is the link for more information http://activeautowerke.com/supercharger/tse36m3/main.php .

[stimpee]

Mr. NoBenz,

Your point is taken, and that is fine. My original statement was to clarify the incorrect statement that the Whipple was a Roots.

Also, my original statement was that the Whipple is/was the same as the Lysholm, which is true. It does not imply that ALL Lysholms are Whipples.

I am not upset either. I am making a point.

[TxZHP04]

To keep everybody udated Active does have the Twin Screw system for the E36 models. The kits are being offered at introductory prices of $5900 for level I 360 BHP and $7900 Level II 418 Bhp. Avoid disappointment and order now...Here is the link for more information http://activeautowerke.com/supercharger/tse36m3/main.php .

Good to know but here in the e46 forum we would be more interested in your future plans for the e46.

[Sales@ESS]

To clarify, I did mean Eaton/Roots, not Whipple/Roots. We do not deal with Whipple now nor in the past. Our Lysholms are custom built to our specifications and are not available off the shelf.

And AA, this:

To keep everybody udated Active does have the Twin Screw system for the E36 models. The kits are being offered at introductory prices of $5900 for level I 360 BHP and $7900 Level II 418 Bhp. Avoid disappointment and order now...

is unprofressional. If you would like, We can make sure we use your product threads to sell our products as well.

[jdm3]

To keep everybody udated Active does have the Twin Screw system for the E36 models. The kits are being offered at introductory prices of $5900 for level I 360 BHP and $7900 Level II 418 Bhp. Avoid disappointment and order now...Here is the link for more information http://activeautowerke.com/supercharger/tse36m3/main.php .
WOW .
That is so RUDE and shows no RESPECT .
I have to admit , coming on here on another sponser's thread and posting like this .
Also as TxZHP04 said , we can care less about the E36 .
This is a E46 board , very unprofessional .

[Active Autowerke]

To clarify, I did mean Eaton/Roots, not Whipple/Roots. We do not deal with Whipple now nor in the past. Our Lysholms are custom built to our specifications and are not available off the shelf.

And AA, this:

To keep everybody udated Active does have the Twin Screw system for the E36 models. The kits are being offered at introductory prices of $5900 for level I 360 BHP and $7900 Level II 418 Bhp. Avoid disappointment and order now...

is unprofressional. If you would like, We can make sure we use your product threads to sell our products as well.

We were simply clarifying an issue. I have no nead to go under your thread to sell your products. We have a twin screw available for E36 models not E46. Congrats on the new kit and I hope you guys can bring something new to the market for everyone here.

[dave12345]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh sssschhhnaaaaaaaaaaap..... v dub

[jdm3]

We have a twin screw available for E36 models not E46 .
A simple apology would have been appropriate , but then here is another post letting E46 owners know that there is a T.S kit for the E36 cars which again has nothing to do with this forum or this thread .
Again thanks for letting us know that there is a e36 T.S kit available but I dont think anyone really cares on this board .
To keep everybody udated Active does have the Twin Screw system for the E36 models. The kits are being offered at introductory prices of $5900 for level I 360 BHP and $7900 Level II 418 Bhp. Avoid disappointment and order now...Here is the link for more information http://activeautowerke.com/supercharger/tse36m3/main.php .
Also this to me looks like a promtion not clarification of a an issue.

[noBenz]

A simple apology would have been appropriate , but then here is another post letting E46 owners know that there is a T.S kit for the E36 cars which again has nothing to do with this forum or this thread .
Again thanks for letting us know that there is a e36 T.S kit available but I dont think anyone really cares on this board .

Also this to me looks like a promtion not clarification of a an issue.

LOL Tell them JDM3!!!
Back on topic! Ess I hope you know I'll probably be satisfied with the TX2 kit I'm getting installed but that doesn't mean a year from now I won't sell this kit and get the TS!!! Great job fellas!

[DAI Msports]

LOL Tell them JDM3!!!
Back on topic! Ess I hope you know I'll probably be satisfied with the TX2 kit I'm getting installed but that doesn't mean a year from now I won't sell this kit and get the TS!!! Great job fellas!
Benzo , How is everything going .
Good I hope , you do need to posts some pics of your beast .
Also you have an awsome kit right now , but when you are ready for the T.S .
Talk to me and let see what we can do for you .
I cant wait to get this bad boy on my car . :drool:

[kujo]

I just picked up a like new 330iZHP.
I'm really looking forward to a nice Stage II set up for her.
Hope this comes sooner, rather than later.

This unit wouldn't have any issues running with a Gruppe M cai would it ?

If you are ever in need of Photography / Cinematography services in So Cal, let me know. I'll be glad to help out, if I'm not working on my TV series.

kj

[TaZaM3]

A simple apology would have been appropriate , but then here is another post letting E46 owners know that there is a T.S kit for the E36 cars which again has nothing to do with this forum or this thread .
Again thanks for letting us know that there is a e36 T.S kit available but I dont think anyone really cares on this board .

Also this to me looks like a promtion not clarification of a an issue.

Not really. ESS is doing the same..

[///ACS330Ci]

Subtle, but you know it is there when you step on it.

:thumbup:

[SHV]

T Avoid disappointment and order now...Here is the link for more information http://activeautowerke.com/supercharger/tse36m3/main.php .

This is like implying that you would be disappointed if you waited for the ESS kit.

I must say I'm quite surprised by this post coming from a well respected company as AA.

But oh well, back to topic!

[OCswedishM3]

This is like implying that you would be disappointed if you waited for the ESS kit.

I must say I'm quite surprised by this post coming from a well respected company as AA.

But oh well, back to topic!

I think alot of you need to look into the context more carefully. ESS has nothing to do with e36M3's. AA has mentioned nothing about e46's and therefore has not insulted nor highjacked ESS's thread. If anything they simply made an off-topic post because we are talking about the e46 but then again u can argue that becasue the topic is about the T.S. which AA has for the e36. Clearly some of you need a lesson in marketing, AA was talking about apples while ESS is discussing Oranges. In all honesty who really gives a shite.

[Sales@ESS]

I think alot of you need to look into the context more carefully. ESS has nothing to do with e36M3's. AA has mentioned nothing about e46's and therefore has not insulted nor highjacked ESS's thread. If anything they simply made an off-topic post because we are talking about the e46 but then again u can argue that becasue the topic is about the T.S. which AA has for the e36. Clearly some of you need a lesson in marketing, AA was talking about apples while ESS is discussing Oranges. In all honesty who really gives a shite.

Actually, our kit does have to do with E36s as well. Read the release again...

"ESS Twin Screw kits will then soon follow for M52/S52 engines used in the Z3 2.8/M-Roadster/M-Coupe, E36 323/328/M3 3.2 and E39 528 based on the same Twin Screw technology."

[OCswedishM3]

Actually, our kit does have to do with E36s as well. Read the release again...

"ESS Twin Screw kits will then soon follow for M52/S52 engines used in the Z3 2.8/M-Roadster/M-Coupe, E36 323/328/M3 3.2 and E39 528 based on the same Twin Screw technology."

I was just going off of the topic title M52TU/M54 which is what everyone was talking about. Now that i went back i do see the ladder part of your topic. Anyhow goodluck with the project and keep us posted, maybe even a little insight for the T.S. for the e46M3:dunno: :thumbup:

[m3cabrio]

I was just going off of the topic title M52TU/M54 which is what everyone was talking about. Now that i went back i do see the ladder part of your topic. Anyhow goodluck with the project and keep us posted, maybe even a little insight for the T.S. for the e46M3:dunno: :thumbup:
I do have to agree with the last few posters .
I was also disappointed to see AAs post on here it is very unprofessional of Active .
The again a lot of sponsers on here take cheap shots or **** Block other sponsers thread trying to make a buck and this is a very good example of it .
May be they are a little worried about ESS . :cry:
Just a little , please dont flame at me :argue: , Im only being real. Whoever it applies to .

[Sales@ESS]

This unit wouldn't have any issues running with a Gruppe M cai would it ?

If you are ever in need of Photography / Cinematography services in So Cal, let me know. I'll be glad to help out, if I'm not working on my TV series.

If your particular CAI attaches to the stock MAF location upon removing the stock airbox, it will work on our TS kits just fine. We do not move the MAF.

We will keep you in mind if we need your services, thank you!

[JCz04Bimmer]

Well it looks like there's yet another thing for me to start saving for. If I can have some self-control and the price (installed and everything) comes in at a good point then this is something i'll seriously consider

This will be available for the MS45 computer systems, right?

[Sales@ESS]

This will be available for the MS45 computer systems, right?

Of course.

[BayerischeMW]

will this kit be "easier" on steptronics?

[Sales@ESS]

"Easier"

The real answer I think you are looking for lies in the steadfast torque rating of the Steptronic and in response, the TS will be boost limited on automatics. There is no way to exceed this limit without a new transmission rated for more power.

As for the difference, the max torque is created much earlier in the power band with a twin screw versus a centrifugal, but still within the limits of the automatic. Hence, faster.

[KOTHB]

...and will it also be available for a ZHP? Software and everything?

[Sales@ESS]

...and will it also be available for a ZHP? Software and everything?

Absolutely.

[davidwarren]

can't wait for some pics on an e46! hint hint:shhh:

[ADA]

so does this kit still requires an inter-cooler and stuff?

[Mike Benvo]

so does this kit still requires an inter-cooler and stuff?

From what I understand, the kit is water/alcohol cooled but also has a heat exchanger/intercooler up front (stage II only) to keep the intake temperatures low for more power and less chance of pre-ignition. Of course as more boost is introduced to the motor, intake air temperature (at the manifold) will become hotter because the act of compression creates heat.

Sounds like this kit is going to put the smack down on everything else.

Keep up the good work and R & D ESS :thumbup:.

[TxZHP04]

so does this kit still requires an inter-cooler and stuff?

Stage 1 @ 6psi does not come with an intercooler.
Stage 2 @ 8psi comes with an intercooler.

This has all been covered before. :read:

[TxZHP04]

From what I understand, the kit is water/alcohol cooled

Are you talking about water/alcohol injection into the intake here?

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall seeing this as part of the ESS kits. Are you maybe thinking of another vendor's e36 Stage 1 TS?

[Mike Benvo]

Are you talking about water/alcohol injection into the intake here?

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall seeing this as part of the ESS kits. Are you maybe thinking of another vendor's e36 Stage 1 TS?

Nope, I mixed it up w/ another kit.

There is no W/A injection into the intake... Rather there is a charge cooler (water cooling), and a heat exchanger in the front as well for the 8PSI applications only. I think this is correct. :thumbup:

[TxZHP04]

Nope, I mixed it up w/ another kit.


Kinda nice that the FI market for BMWs has grown enough to have that sort of problem these days! :thumbup:

[Sales@ESS]

To clarify:

The Stage 1 TS system is 6psi and not charge cooled, but is ready to accept the Laminova Core water cooling system at any moment. The manifold is pre-built for the water cores across all power stages (the three holes you see in the manifold image in the initial post of this thread.)

You can upgrade to Stage 2 and 8psi by simply later inserting the Laminova cores into the manifold, run the water lines and pump, mount the heat exchanger, load new software, and mount a different pulley.

Or, you can get Stage 2 from the getgo.

[Sales@ESS]

We don't use Water/Alcohol injection. While the systems are decent, we feel that anything that has to be refilled and can run out when you need it -- will.

[Mike Benvo]

We don't use Water/Alcohol injection. While the systems are decent, we feel that anything that has to be refilled and can run out when you need it -- will.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like it would be needed for this application, as this is low boost in the grand scheme of FI (especially with an air-air heat exchanger and a water cooled system)

I really like how nothing extensive has to be done when moving from Stage I to II. Good (and easily upgradeable!) design goes a long way in this market :thumbup:.

[Sales@ESS]

I really like how nothing extensive has to be done when moving from Stage I to II. Good (and easily upgradeable!) design goes a long way in this market :thumbup:.

You actually go all the way to Stage 4 on the same compressor and manifold as Stage 1. The beauty of a properly sized and designed twin screw is no need to change the main hardware of the system itself to move up through the power stages.

[JCz04Bimmer]

General price point of the stage 1 or 2 available yet?

[kujo]

Hey Sales@ESS,

I've sent 3 emails now to the email addy from your site.
Regarding ZHP software info.

I've not received any return email contact.

Can you please email me ?
kjpix@mac.com

thanks,

Kurt

[Sales@ESS]

Hey Sales@ESS,

I've sent 3 emails now to the email addy from your site.
Regarding ZHP software info.

I've not received any return email contact.

Can you please email me ?
kjpix@mac.com

thanks,

Kurt

Feel free to send me a PM.

[bimmer328ci]

what is going to be the difference between the stage 2 and the stage 4 because i already have headers and exhaust so i hope those wont be being removed but i would hope that the difference would be more boost or something like cams

[bernstem]

I would hope that stage 4 would be higher boost 14+PSI with lowered compression.

[Sales@ESS]

I would hope that stage 4 would be higher boost 14+PSI with lowered compression.

:clap:

[Mike Benvo]

I would hope that stage 4 would be higher boost 14+PSI with lowered compression.

Oh, it will be :shhh:.

Trussst me.

[Bim Growl]

Wow! Sounds awesome. Can't wait to see this on the market! ;)

(maybe some of my friends here know what this could mean...) :evil:

[xS3x]

subscribe:thumbup:

[bernstem]

So is the plan for lowering compression on the stage IV kit a built bottom end with low compression pistons or a thicker head gasket?

[Mike Benvo]

So is the plan for lowering compression on the stage IV kit a built bottom end with low compression pistons or a thicker head gasket?

Oh, quite a bit more than that.

[BMWintoxication]

can you post pix of the SC installed on the z4? :D

[bernstem]

Oh, quite a bit more than that.

I would expect that there would be a fair number of supporting changes made to the engine including exhaust, headers, etc. (maybe even head work as an option).

I'm still curious, though, how they are planning to lower compression. In my opinion, a better option would be to rebuild the bottom end with balanced crank, rods and low compression pistons rather than go with a thicker head gasket. A fully built bottom end, however, costs a lot more in both labor and parts than a head gasket does and the 328/330 already have forged components. Depending on their horsepower goals, the stock components may be strong enough.

[Dirtboy]

:eeps: Here's a dumb question: with the TS installed, will you still be able to have underdrive pullies installed?






I know, dumb - but I'm subscribed now :D

[crazy1323]

i dont see why not, you would just have to find the right size belt in order to drive the pullies.

[Mike Benvo]

i dont see why not, you would just have to find the right size belt in order to drive the pullies.

With the ASA centri kits, you can't because there isn't enough clearance.

On this kit you might be able to, but there are also problems of shreding etc.. if the belt is too small or if there is too much turbulence.

Honestly though, I wouldn't want to underdrive the water pump on a blown application, and the benefits of underdriving the power steering pump are very slight... It's not even really worth it.

[Dirtboy]

With the ASA centri kits, you can't because there isn't enough clearance.

On this kit you might be able to, but there are also problems of shreding etc.. if the belt is too small or if there is too much turbulence.

Honestly though, I wouldn't want to underdrive the water pump on a blown application, and the benefits of underdriving the power steering pump are very slight... It's not even really worth it.


Yeah, I was just asking cuz I already have them installed... :D

[Sales@ESS]

So is the plan for lowering compression on the stage IV kit a built bottom end with low compression pistons or a thicker head gasket?

The details will be released soon, but custom lower CR Pistons are included in stage 3 and above. Using a head gasket to lower CR means messing with the squish space in these engines and is simply a bad idea.

The rod and crank are actually quite strong in the M54B30. Upgrades will be available for the higher stages in the 2.5L.

Stage 4 will likely includes headers, race cats, port/polish/headwork, but with optional cams.

UD Pullies will work fine, but we never found much gain from using them. They can be pretty on the eyes though.

Pics (the ghosted teaser photos in the dyno not enough? :) ), prices, power figures, and more -- coming soon.

[Dirtboy]

Stage 4 will likely includes headers, race cats....


I already have those :D

...so would I actually be getting a Stage 2.5? :lmao:

[Mike Benvo]

Yeah, using a thicker gasket instead of low comp. pistons themselves is a cheap and less effective way (I could even go as far as "ghetto") to boost more on these motors.

Does stage IV entail different rods? I know the factory rods are decently strong (and forged in the 330), but are they strong enough to hold 15+ PSI.

The details will be released soon, but custom lower CR Pistons are included in stage 3 and above. Using a head gasket to lower CR means messing with the squish space in these engines and is simply a bad idea.

The rod and crank are actually quite strong in the M54B30. Upgrades will be available for the higher stages in the 2.5L.

Stage 4 will likely includes headers, race cats, port/polish/headwork, but with optional cams.

UD Pullies will work fine, but we never found much gain from using them. They can be pretty on the eyes though.

Pics (the ghosted teaser photos in the dyno not enough? :) ), prices, power figures, and more -- coming soon.

[bernstem]

It is good to hear that you are going to go with low compression ratio pistons even though it will cost more. I am interested to see what the Stg 4 numbers look like (any teasers...?). I would also be curious to know how high you can push the boost with the current compressor and if you have seen any evidence of a head gasket leak at higher boost.

[Mike Benvo]

It is good to hear that you are going to go with low compression ratio pistons even though it will cost more. I am interested to see what the Stg 4 numbers look like (any teasers...?). I would also be curious to know how high you can push the boost with the current compressor and if you have seen any evidence of a head gasket leak at higher boost.

Well, you have to take it in terms of Effective compression ratio to see how hard the motor is really working.

My stage IV numbers should be well over 400whp, on a conservative tune (14 or 15 PSI). The engine internals themselves (especially on higher octane fuels) should be able to handle ~20-25 PSI. The TM17 compressor I believe is good to this amount of boost pressure.

[///ACS330Ci]

I already have those :D

...so would I actually be getting a Stage 2.5? :lmao:

:blah: :slap:

[jonny-Q]

subscribed :) :clap:

[Dirtboy]

:blah: :slap:

S T F U Steve!:P




:spit:

[OCswedishM3]

Well, you have to take it in terms of Effective compression ratio to see how hard the motor is really working.

My stage IV numbers should be well over 400whp, on a conservative tune (14 or 15 PSI). The engine internals themselves (especially on higher octane fuels) should be able to handle ~20-25 PSI. The TM17 compressor I believe is good to this amount of boost pressure.

Mike i dont think you are going to hit 20psi on your 330 stage 4 motor. You would be well over 500whp and im sorry your car will be fast but not that fast.IMO of course

[pirouzn]

How many HP should we expect with the Stage II kit?

[Mike Benvo]

Mike i dont think you are going to hit 20psi on your 330 stage 4 motor. You would be well over 500whp and im sorry your car will be fast but not that fast.IMO of course

Umm... okay... It's going to be a whole different ball game, especially because I'll be able to rev to 7500RPM. Fast is a relative term, and it will be fast for me. I'll let the car speak for itself when it is complete.

[rracerrx]

The S54 actually loves the twin screw and makes crazy power on stock internals but playing with the MSS54 throttle system is very delicate work to keep stock or better drivability with positive displacement. And as always, if it is not perfect, we won't release it.Thank you Vik. Actually, the TS has been running through development on our Z4 (now wearing Stage 4 by the way) for over 2 years to get it perfect. And it is definitely coming to market, otherwise we are wasting a lot of money! :yikes:So from the two previous quotes, is it safe to say that ESS is working on a Twin Screw SC for the E46 M3?!?!?! I can see that if it's not perfect, that it won't be released, but I would also think that your company wouldn't be wasting valuable time and money for R&D on a potential product that wouldn't be coming to market. Again, I'm just assuming that ESS is doing some R&D on the E46 M3. I'll be in the market for some type of FI for my M3 in exactly one year from now. That's when my warranty expires. :thumbup:

[///ACS330Ci]

S T F U Steve!:P




:spit:

http://www.dynamicminicollective.com/board/images/smiles/wedgie.gif

[Dirtboy]

http://www.dynamicminicollective.com/board/images/smiles/wedgie.gif

:yikes:

[sheefo2k]

yay

[OCswedishM3]

Umm... okay... It's going to be a whole different ball game, especially because I'll be able to rev to 7500RPM. Fast is a relative term, and it will be fast for me. I'll let the car speak for itself when it is complete.

Cant wait to see it. Given a 7500redline with 20spi should yield u somewhere between 550-600whp, if i had to guess. :thumbup:

[DAI Msports]

Cant wait to see it. Given a 7500redline with 20spi should yield u somewhere between 550-600whp, if i had to guess. :thumbup:
I would say so. Especially with a stage 4 .

[davidwarren]

how's this thing doing? any updates?

[redronin]

for real im getting excited about this!!!

[JCz04Bimmer]

To be honest, what excites me the most about this is the clear upgrade path that you can take. You can start off with a relatively modest Stage 1 or 2 and just run from there without having to change the major (and most expensive) components. I'm in no position to drop $$ on a stage 4 but I may be able to pull off a stage 1 and eventually get more extreme with it.

[Dirtboy]

To be honest, what excites me the most about this is the clear upgrade path that you can take. You can start off with a relatively modest Stage 1 or 2 and just run from there without having to change the major (and most expensive) components. I'm in no position to drop $$ on a stage 4 but I may be able to pull off a stage 1 and eventually get more extreme with it.


:werd:

[dave12345]

Umm... okay... It's going to be a whole different ball game, especially because I'll be able to rev to 7500RPM. Fast is a relative term, and it will be fast for me. I'll let the car speak for itself when it is complete.


mike your insane :yikes:

[Dirtboy]

:shhh: I heard from someone that this kit will be available next month here in europe...:eeps:

[Mike Benvo]

mike your insane :yikes:

:hi: I love to push the envelope.

[maxnathan]

I heard from someone that this kit will be available next month here in europe...


My dealer ( lydney, UK) is just about to get his hands on the Twin screw....:yikes:

Trying to work out the price difference between upgrading to TX2 and buying the TS :rolleyes:

[cncmastr]

Oh lordy! This looks sweet!

[Genie]

any updates, pics, prices, availability yet ?

[spartanwarrior]

Just wanting to know how the new kit is coming along can't wait to order..

[kujo]

ESS,

Thank you for causing me many, many nights of restless or NO sleep !!!

WHEN, WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN
WHEN, WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN
WHEN, WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN
WHEN, WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN
WHEN, WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN
WHEN, WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN
WHEN, WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN,WHEN

Just give me a Stage I kit for my ZHP !!!! Please..........
That'll be enough...................
.......... for a while........................

ps: will it work with my Dinan CAI and Throttle body ? :jfj:

OK. I vented.......:bawling:

kj

[spartanwarrior]

Really i'm worse than little kids,, when i wan't something don't like waiting...

[Genie]

There has been no response from ESS in weeks. Maybe they have gone out of business ? the TS project ruined their company ?
ASA bought the idea, just to stop the process ?

speculations... speculations..

[spartanwarrior]

No, they have not gone out of businuss! ESS is a great company,

[Dirtboy]

Is it done yet?..... no......

Is it done yet?..... no......

Is it done yet?..... No!......

Is it done yet?..... NO!......

Is it done yet?..... NO!!......

Is it done yet?..... NO!!......



:lmao:

[spartanwarrior]

When it is done which will be very soon, it will smack all other company's in the face there will be no other supercharger like it NONE...................

[KOTHB]

See, that's the thing: it is too done. They're just not ready--for whatever reason--to release it.

which suxxors.

OTOH, they could always do the "let's give away a not-yet-complete freebie kit to some poor bastard who will spend untold hours grinding away at an installation that is doomed to failure" approach.

For me, the choice will be a cost-benefit analysis. Is the ESS system stage 1 or 2 system going to cost more than, say, the VF stage 2 system... to make what power?

If it's for the same scratch, or if the power proves to be more usable in daily driving (as it seems, with the ts seeming to come on earlier in the power band than the centri) then the only factor would be customer service, and whether the US office of ESS is up to taking care of issues without everything having to go back to the home country.

The VF install pix we've seen are pretty sweet; haven't really gotten evidence from ESS on this unit.


OKAY, ESS, YOU'VE FLOATED THE TRIAL BALLOON. YOU'VE GOTTEN YOUR FAVORABLE RESPONSE...

NOW GIVE!

[kujo]

agreed, as I was waiting for VF's kit too.
Having come from the Audi/VW/Pcar world, I trust them and I trust Garret for the software !
My last 4 cars were all flashed with Garrets stoftware !!!

We'll just have to see........and WAIT !!!!!!!!!!!!

kj

[kujo]

agreed, as I was waiting for VF's kit too.
Having come from the Audi/VW/Pcar world, I trust them and I trust Garret for the software !
My last 4 cars were all flashed with Garrets stoftware !!!

We'll just have to see........and WAIT !!!!!!!!!!!!

kj

[BayerischeMW]

i think this speculation has gone too far.. almost turning into a flame-fest. i realize that "Maybe they have gone out of business ? the TS project ruined their company ?" was a joke though :P

after talking to them today, their current plans is releasing pricing, info etc. in about a month and a half. wheter that means that the kit will be available in a month and a half, i don't know.

[Bim Growl]

A month and a half!!!! :omg:



This thread is the biggest c0ck-tease on E46Fanatics!!! :spit: WTF!?!?!?

[spartanwarrior]

Great another month and a half anxiety perfect...

[///ACS330Ci]

Is it done yet?..... no......

Is it done yet?..... no......

Is it done yet?..... No!......

Is it done yet?..... NO!......

Is it done yet?..... NO!!......

Is it done yet?..... NO!!......



:lmao:


:spit:

[Genie]

What exactly DOES ESS give us ? nothing.. just a tease , a dyno without specs , no info,***180;no nothing. ..

Its a "brilliant" way to market a "maybe to be released" product. Brilliant in the way, that it put the competition on a hold, who whants todays technology, when someone is just around the corner with a "new and better" !

If i had a dollar for every hyped up product ive seen, ill be a rich man today..

ofcause its interesting that ESS is sharing their R&D with us, but with what other purpose do they do it, if not to hurt te competition ?

[DILYSI]

What exactly DOES ESS give us ? nothing.. just a tease , a dyno without specs , no info,***180;no nothing. ..

Its a "brilliant" way to market a "maybe to be released" product. Brilliant in the way, that it put the competition on a hold, who whants todays technology, when someone is just around the corner with a "new and better" !

If i had a dollar for every hyped up product ive seen, ill be a rich man today..

ofcause its interesting that ESS is sharing their R&D with us, but with what other purpose do they do it, if not to hurt te competition ?

The answer to your question could be ego. Another suspicious question: how long will they hold off on this release in order to sell their inventory of current and yet soon to be outdated SC systems? It could be a while. Just a thought. I still want one.

[K330iZHP]

What exactly DOES ESS give us ? nothing.. just a tease , a dyno without specs , no info,***180;no nothing. ..

Its a "brilliant" way to market a "maybe to be released" product. Brilliant in the way, that it put the competition on a hold, who whants todays technology, when someone is just around the corner with a "new and better" !

If i had a dollar for every hyped up product ive seen, ill be a rich man today..

ofcause its interesting that ESS is sharing their R&D with us, but with what other purpose do they do it, if not to hurt te competition ?

Nearly every product in just about every industry is announced well before it is released. That's just how product marketing, development, and deployment works. Why else would there be numerous conferences and conventions in every imaginable industry throughout the year? To announce new products. This is especially true in the automotive and consumer electronics fields. Creating buzz keeps consumers excited and makes sure that the competition continues to innovate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with ESS's approach here - there are countless examples of the same technique being used with thousands of products over the course of many years.

[SHV]

As announced today at Bimmerfest:

ESS Performance Products USA is proud to announce our TWIN SCREW supercharger system for the M52TU/M54 engines!

After 3 years of extensive research, development, and tuning, we will soon release the first and only TWIN SCREW (TS) Supercharger system for the BMW M52TU/M54 engines used in the E46 as well as the E39, E53, E60, E83, and E85 chassis.

Systems are already complete and are currently in 50,000 mile durability testing. They will be available by summer 2006!




I don't understand why you guys are so impatient, ESS said it would be released during this summer not way before. Offcourse they want to finish the testing before they release the kit. :rolleyes:

[DILYSI]

I don't understand why you guys are so impatient, ESS said it would be released during this summer not way before. Offcourse they want to finish the testing before they release the kit. :rolleyes:

To answer your question, if ESS was engineering hotdogs with cheese on the inside, I would not be nearly this impatient. But this here TS supercharger gizmo sounds pretty wicked and I'm having a hard time restraining myself.

[redronin]

in response to the last few posts, i love the information and im getting really excited, but i understand your pain

weve all seen similar dislplays crash and burn. with ESS' reputation im SURE this will not be the case.

patience is a virtue.

[ATLZHP6M]

Is it done yet?

[russ330]

patience is a virtue.

Exactly. :thumdup: How 'bout everyone just sit back, relax, save their coins, and prepare for the official release.

BTW if anyone hasn't noticed, ESS is a 'Past site sponsor' so the chances of them updating this thread until they have "re-upped" their sponsorship is slim.

[MarvelPhx]

While ESS is in negotiations regarding their sponsorship here at E46, maybe I can help with the timeline and schedule for everyone based on what I know from talking with them.

Back in the late months of 2005, when the twin screw design was completed and the reliability test well underway on the Z4, the final intake manifold CAD specs were sent to the foundry. There are only two foundries in the world that can cast these extremely complex intakes the right way and one of them is OEM only. Getting the production manifolds back from them has been the longest wait so far and they should arrive any day now.

Once the intakes are received from the foundry, ESS will go back and tweak tune the existing prototype twin screw software for the production manifolds versus the hand-built prototype manifold. The production software will be programmed for 50-state emissions and therefore be able to pass the CARB certification process already underway. This tweaking will also provide even better horsepower/torque gains from smoother, more efficient airflow in the production manifold (<b>also the reason we have not seen final power numbers released yet</b>).

During this software tweaking period, I will receive a pre-release production ESS Twin Screw Stage 2 system and install it on the my330i.com Project Car. ESS asked me to assist with writing the installation manual based on my experience with the DIYs I have done. The ESS manuals have been known to leave a lot out since they are written for certified technicians, not people like us. I will create the new DIY manual in a HTML and PDF format with color photos and send it back to ESS. They will use the manual to see if they can change anything to make the installation even simpler based on my feedback. This step won't take me any longer than a week and I will put some pics up for everyone to see in the process.

Once the US software is ready (around 3-4 weeks from manifold arrival), the system will be released to the public. And it is <u>definitely</u> coming. Barring any unforseen circumstances in the timeline, we should be able to order these systems late June.

<b>Prices have not been announced due to the heavy fluctuation of the Euro vs Dollar recently.</b> Closer to release, they will have a better idea of what the systems will cost in the US and set the official prices and lock them there.

The 325/330 engines come first (MS43, MS45 and MS45.1) for all M54 applications, e.g. X3, X5, Z4, 330, 525, etc.

Then 323/328 engines (MS42) immediately following for all M52TU applications (later this year).

Then the S52, M52, S50, M50 applications (end of year/early next).

[BMWintoxication]

thanks for the info,

what other cars are using TS S/C ?

[arcticool]

Seems to me this won't be a good deal, which is probably what they are struggling with now. This thing will most likely cost more than 5Gs which is where most folks would rather just kick the extra nickle and get an M3. They go much over 5 and sales plummet, and with having to provide an intake manifold as well as a TS, the package will be spendy. I don't think it will be such a bang/buck deal in the end, we'll see...

[HighBoostin330]

Seems to me this won't be a good deal, which is probably what they are struggling with now. This thing will most likely cost more than 5Gs which is where most folks would rather just kick the extra nickle and get an M3. They go much over 5 and sales plummet, and with having to provide an intake manifold as well as a TS, the package will be spendy. I don't think it will be such a bang/buck deal in the end, we'll see...

Which supercharger isn't more than $5k now? Its true that $5k will get a VF, but how much more power do other kits put out with cooling? ESS moved from Vortech to ASA blowers for the non-M3s for a reason...

[arcticool]

Which supercharger isn't more than $5k now? Its true that $5k will get a VF, but how much more power do other kits put out with cooling? ESS moved from Vortech to ASA blowers for the non-M3s for a reason...

All kits are 5Gs or more, that's my point, and that's the problem- it alienates most of the potential market b/c most people (non-fanatics :) would rather drop the extra few bucks and just get an M3 and all the extra goodies that come with it. After all, engine aside it is still 20Gs more car...

So these guys are stuck in the unenviable position of probably having to price it even higher than other SC kits, thus even further shrinking their potential market. I'm sure this pricing issue is what they're grappling with now. If they undercut the competition, say 3-4Gs, they'd sell thousands of em, open up a whole new market and probably in the end make a killing, but if they come in high (as I expect) they will have trouble selling to anyone other than ultra-enthusiasts and with costs considered have a hard time seeing the black. Remember a more complex turbo kit for an Acura is only 2500 bucks. These SC kits for bimmers have been overpriced for a long time because of their failure to ever reach mass production and returns to scale. The main reason C&D kept their favorite car (caugh caugh BMW) out of their forced induction special last year. Everyone thought the AA car submitted would make it but in the end the mag's stance- for that price, just get an M. But if the price was lower...

Edit: no I still can't spell

[rracerrx]

The 325/330 engines come first (MS43, MS45 and MS45.1) for all M54 applications, e.g. X3, X5, Z4, 330, 525, etc.

Then 323/328 engines (MS42) immediately following for all M52TU applications (later this year).

Then the S52, M52, S50, M50 applications (end of year/early next).
Awwwww......no S54 for the M3???:bawling:

[MarvelPhx]

All kits are 5Gs or more, that's my point, and that's the problem- it alienates most of the potential market b/c most people (non-fanatics :) would rather drop the extra few bucks and just get an M3 and all the extra goodies that come with it. After all, engine aside it is still 20Gs more car...

Remember a more complex turbo kit for an Acura is only 2500 bucks.

Did you just compare a BMW to an Acura?

Let's take some basic estimated numbers on say a regular Vortech kit...

V2SQ $2000
Mounting Bracket $100
Injectors $600
Intake Pipes/Adapters $300
Filter $50
Hoses, Clamps, Fittings $400
Bypass Valve $80
Packaging $30
Software PRICELESS... per unit say $600
R&D labor per unit say $500

You are looking at a estimated COST of 4660 alone... and this is conservative for time in design, testing, tuning, etc.

So 5k is a pretty good deal for the customer. Biggest bang for the buck.

It bugs me when people compare the cost of a supercharged non-M versus an M3. You say an M3 is a "few extra bucks". I see a base price difference of over $11,000 both new and similiarly used.

If people want M power, they should have bought an M3 in the first place. Of course, then they would probably look to boost the M3 as well, which is even MORE expensive.

IMO, I didnt want an M because I like 4 doors, and the sedan is stiffer, lighter, and more aerodynamic. It is more affordable, looks better to me, and I can beat an M3 quite easily and still have cheaper payments and insurance.

What could *you* do with $11,000 on a non-M?

[Bim Growl]

If people want M power, they should have bought an M3 in the first place. Of course, then they would probably look to boost the M3 as well, which is even MORE expensive.

IMO, I didnt want an M because I like 4 doors, and the sedan is stiffer, lighter, and more aerodynamic. It is more affordable, looks better to me, and I can beat an M3 quite easily and still have cheaper payments and insurance.


Big fat focking :werd: to this!!! It bugs the hell out of me when people say, "Why didn't you just buy an ///M3? They just don't get it. I hear it all the time at the track. Then when I force the M3's to give me a point-by, people think twice. I love being underestimated! :lmao:

[tas]

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[m3cabrio]

Big fat focking :werd: to this!!! It bugs the hell out of me when people say, "Why didn't you just buy an ///M3? They just don't get it. I hear it all the time at the track. Then when I force the M3's to give me a point-by, people think twice. I love being underestimated! :lmao:
WOW . O.K thanks for that interesting post .

[KrzyBum420]

:popcorn: I want to supercharge my ZHP, will this Twin Screw SC be the best on the market when it's released? In terms of power, and reliability?

[m3cabrio]

:popcorn: I want to supercharge my ZHP, will this Twin Screw SC be the best on the market when it's released? In terms of power, and reliability?
I personally think so , but then again everybody is intitle to their own opnion.
Also why dont you guys relax and take it easy .
You have to give ESS credit that they are actually waiting and investing a lot of time on R&D to make sure that they provide the market with a good , dependable , reliable product , unlike a lot of other companies .
As far as their due date , the last time I checked they said by this summer , so I dont see what the big deal is .
Its not like they failed to come through on their due date , because as far as I know its still spring here in the U.S .

[BayerischeMW]

well, that remains to be seen, as the kit is not on the market yet. but in terms of power, you can take a look at the dyno graph in post #1 in this thread.

[MarvelPhx]

well, that remains to be seen, as the kit is not on the market yet. but in terms of power, you can take a look at the dyno graph in post #1 in this thread.

Also remember, that posted dyno is the TS prototypes running 7psi. The actual production manifolds will flow better and run 8psi for stage 2 so count on even better numbers. I would bet that even stage 1 at 6psi will come close matching the posted dyno for 7psi due to the cast manifold. We'll see!

[BayerischeMW]

you're right, i should've mentioned that :thumbup: and as you said in an earlier post, the software tuning based on the final manifold and everything should help too :)