||Performance Gearing (Jim Blanton) LSD Review||

[HighBoostin330]

About three months ago, I became interested in purchasing a limited-slip differential from all the positive feedback on how an LSD enhances the car's driving characteristics. After a while of research, I found that for the E46 chasis, there are two types of limited slip units available: Torsen (Qualife-like) and Clutch-Type (Kaaz and Performance Gearing). After asking certain people and reading some websites on the basic characteristics between the two limited slip units, I found that a clutch-type LSD would suit me best. I would have chosen KAAZ, but they didn't make custom LSDs like Jim Blanton at Performance Gearing did. Specifically, I wanted a 3.38 LSD; however, after further discussion with Jim, he said a 3.46 would best compliment by supercharger and six-speed transmission.

Jim Blanton is very professional and very laid back, who is happy to answer any of your questions. I think I spent a good hour talking to Jim Blanton about my LSD setup. Jim Blanton kept me up to date on the building of my limited-slip differential throughout the entire process from building the limited-slip unit to installing it into my 3.46 rear differential to shipping the limited-slip differential to my door. I was quoted $3100 by Jim Blanton to build the limited slip unit, to install it into the differential, install a differential fin cover, and to ship it to my door with the return shipment of my differential unit included.
Too bad I do not have the pictures of the box when the differential unit came. It is stuck in my cell phone and I don't have the cable to sync it with my computer to get it out. The differential was boxed very nicely and secure. It is more than durable enough for the return trip for the core differential back to Jim Blanton. The UPS guy almost broke his back trying to get the differential box off his truck. :rofl:

If you go to Turner Motorsport, they sell the LSD unit for about $2500 and that is for just the limited-slip unit itself. In my opinion, Jim Blanton's price quote came out to be a bargain. From what I have been told, Jim Blanton also builds LSD units for Turner Motorsport and Koala Motorsport. FWIW, Jim Blanton uses a Salisbury style LSD unit with four friction plate/discs for our six-cylinder models.

Moreover, Jim Blanton is able to customize a LSD unit for the specific user's specification, which is probably why most race car teams go to him for a LSD unit. I chose the street/race setup with the angles of the ramp housing being 30 acceleration degrees and 90 deceleration degrees and the static lock percentage to be 40%. This was recommended by Jim Blanton, so I just listened to the professional that has built plenty of LSDs for track cars.

The first 500 miles has a bit of noise coming from the rear axel when making shape turns. It is just the clutch inside the limited-slip unit just breaking-in. The noise will slowly go away as the miles start to increase. I currently have 3,000 miles on my limited-slip differential and the noise is only slightly audible when making very sharp turns. For the performance the limited-slip differential gives me, a little noise is more than tolerable.

The driving experience with the LSD is a whole new experience. The car is actually two rear-wheel drive now! When you accelerate, you can feel the car push you evenly forward. The LSD gives you a bit faster acceleration and allows you to feel more in control with the car. Also, it feels great when the car just hugs the corner and just accelerates right through it. Some may say that this mod is unnecessary and expensive. It is expensive, but it changes the characteristic of how the car drives. If you can afford a limited-slip differential, buy one! :thumbsup:

I would like to also thank Todd and Daniel for helping me with my research into limited slip units. If you want the KAAZ 3.46 LSD, contact Daniel (Bim Growl). I believe his LSDs are about $500-600 less than what Jim Blanton charges.

Picture 1 - All the internal limited slip components plus the external carrier (with ring gear) and end cap
Picture 2 - Closer view of carrier, ramps and friction discs
Picture 3 - Closer view of tabbed plates, bevel gear assembly and end cap
Picture 4 - All the parts that Jim Blanton fabricates (except ring gear)
Picture 5 - The stock "open" differential compared to the limited slip unit
Picture 6 and 7 - Installed limited slip unit

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2930/se46ls0018ct.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8895/se46ls0045dv.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5770/se46ls0059br.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6981/se46ls0069xc.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6491/se46ls0081oc.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8890/se46ls0114rn.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/416/se46ls0123mc.jpg

[HighBoostin330]

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/6646/dsc017231ot.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5903/dsc017241yt.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4189/dsc017258pn.jpg

[KP]

Excellent review B. Good to see you're enjoying it!
I can definitely get away with more things on my miata with an lsd than my e46.

[Shinobi]

:thumbsup: Awesome! Congratulations. Great info here. I just bought the Turner Motorsports LSD and I do know that Jim Blanton does build their units too. I can't wait to get it in! Its going to make a big difference for me autocrossing. With my supercharger on now, I'm having wheel spinning issues and I'm losing time out there. It might also help me get my 0-60s under 5 seconds as I'm just over it right now.

So, you did your own install? and are you taking your car out to the track?

[Shinobi]

Oh, and I'm going to throw this out there...

it just cracks me up how alot of people here talk about performance and "beating cars in the twisties", but when you give info about LSDs, it gets few responses. LSDs aren't cheap, but many Fanatics spend easily $4,000+ on heavy 19" and 20" wheels and even more on ICE that adds weight...then complain about getting beat. LOL - and who needs DSC if you know how to control your car? Active Differential Braking is supposed to act as a pseudo-LSD, but I've learned that there is a *HUGE* difference between keeping it on and turning everything off. Moreso with the extra power of the supercharger.

Have fun with your LSD and I'm happy to soon be joining you as one of the few non-M e46s to have one.

[vaio76109]

nice

[redronin]

LSD :drool: i want one badly.

[HighBoostin330]

Excellent review B. Good to see you're enjoying it!
I can definitely get away with more things on my miata with an lsd than my e46.

Thanks KP! We all know the miata has a shorter wheelbase and is lighter than our fat ladies. Miatas are so fun to play around with though. :)

[HighBoostin330]

:thumbsup: Awesome! Congratulations. Great info here. I just bought the Turner Motorsports LSD and I do know that Jim Blanton does build their units too. I can't wait to get it in! Its going to make a big difference for me autocrossing. With my supercharger on now, I'm having wheel spinning issues and I'm losing time out there. It might also help me get my 0-60s under 5 seconds as I'm just over it right now.

So, you did your own install? and are you taking your car out to the track?

Partially. I had to borrow my friend's lift. I don't feel like installing this on jackstands. :( So we just lifted the car up and used a transmission jack to jack the LSD up into position. The LSD's weight on UPS's site was 110lbs. :rofl: It was a quick two man job. I think it took less than one hour from uninstall to install. Track might come later.

[bernstem]

This is next on my list of mods. A definite must have for any performance car. Congrats.

[wyu]

:drool: So nice! :bow:

[stylinexpat]

I have one in my 1 series BMW and one in my 3 series BMW both are awesome and I am very happy with both of them. I coudln't imagine driving either one with power going to one rear wheel.

[HighBoostin330]

I have one in my 1 series BMW and one in my 3 series BMW both are awesome and I am very happy with both of them. I coudln't imagine driving either one with power going to one rear wheel.

:werd:

[HighBoostin330]

I forget to mention that Jim Blanton offers a 3 year, unlimited mileage warranty on his LSDs. It takes real confidence in your product to offer such a long warranty period. :thumbsup: to Jim Blanton! :)

[stylinexpat]

:werd:


What's :werd: ? I was happy with the first LSD I had bought and had installed on my 330 that first thing I did to my new 1 series was install a new LSD as well..

[HighBoostin330]

What's :werd: ? I was happy with the first LSD I had bought and had installed on my 330 that first thing I did to my new 1 series was install a new LSD as well..

:werd: means that I agree with your statement. I didn't know what driving experience I was missing without an LSD. After driving the car with a LSD, I now understand what the benefits of a LSD are. :)

[stylinexpat]

:werd: means that I agree with your statement. I didn't know what driving experience I was missing without an LSD. After driving the car with a LSD, I now understand what the benefits of a LSD are. :)

Nothing like it:thumbup:

[Lexie330ci]

WHats the guys again that did this...? keke jk ^_^ lol as I was reading i was like- "man, he mentions Jim Blanton a lot"

LSD FTW ^_^

[HighBoostin330]

WHats the guys again that did this...? keke jk ^_^ lol as I was reading i was like- "man, he mentions Jim Blanton a lot"

LSD FTW ^_^

I could say Jim, but then it could mean Jim Confronti or Jim Blanton or the millions of other Jim's out there. :rofl: jkjk.:P Thanks for your props! :)

[Bm3238u]

how much would one benefit from a lsd for 1/4 mile.I have been thinking about getting it but how much of a gain for so much money?I am running a 13.5 sec pass but have launching issues.

[Mike Benvo]

Think I might have to get one of these. What's the difference between Blanton's unit and a KAAZ one?

Have you done any launches yet?

BTW Brian- tried to call you but lost your number. I'm stuck at the airport in SF right now :lmao:.

[HighBoostin330]

how much would one benefit from a lsd for 1/4 mile.I have been thinking about getting it but how much of a gain for so much money?I am running a 13.5 sec pass but have launching issues.

It would benefit you slighty, since it allows close to equal traction to both wheels. Our non-M3 cars do not have an LSD, so with traction issues, we would be spinning one tire more than the other. Equal power distribution to both wheels will most likely allow for quicker launches. I think an LSD benefits you more on the road track than a quarter mile.

[HighBoostin330]

Think I might have to get one of these. What's the difference between Blanton's unit and a KAAZ one?

Have you done any launches yet?

BTW Brian- tried to call you but lost your number. I'm stuck at the airport in SF right now :lmao:.

I think the difference between Blanton's and KAAZ's is the customization factor. Most thread I have read, the KAAZ LS unit was designed around the 3.46 with a preset static locking percentage and preset ramp angles. I could be wrong on that. Blanton can customize everything to your specifications into any differential unit. Thus, enables you to keep your 3.64. Blanton offered to make me a 3.91/4.10/4.33 if I wanted to feel an extra kick in torque. :lmao: KAAZ or Blanton, it is your choice. The major of BMW track drivers pick Blanton, so I went with what most track drivers chose. A 3 year/unlimited mileage warranty also helped swayed me to Blanton too. :P But if money is your concern, you can save $500 by going with KAAZ.

I haven't done launches cause I got a new clutch put in. Soon soon.

SFO sucks. PERIOD. :rofl:

[njoni007]

I had Jim B contacted to get one built for me but I never got a response. Maybe he thought I was not serious enough. Now, I am getting the Quaife LSD complete with 3.46:1 ;)

[TxZHP04]

I had Jim B contacted to get one built for me but I never got a response. Maybe he thought I was not serious enough. Now, I am getting the Quaife LSD complete with 3.46:1 ;)

Or maybe he just didn't get your email - sometimes messages do get lost or filtered as spam. Your loss.

[kevinterkelsen]

just 2 cent on the Quaife LSD - have had it installed for 2000 miles on a TS3 e46 setup - and it works beautifully! No noises - no hazzels - just grip! Haven't seen the DSC light up yet even though I have been is several stoplight duels ;o) and pushed the car beyond 165 mph.

Unlimited waranty by quaife and Kevin Bird Garages in the UK have 28 years of BMW track/rod experience.

Chose them because it was well reputed in Danish racing circles and easier ordering from another European Union country.

Please not I'm not trying to stir up any trouble - just my 2c

Best,

Kevin

[dlopez]

Sad how new BMW don't have an LSD! My e30 318iS has an LSD from the factory and I can feel the difference in the street over my 330i. That is the only real mod our cars need... I wish I had the spare money to do it!

[HighBoostin330]

I had Jim B contacted to get one built for me but I never got a response. Maybe he thought I was not serious enough. Now, I am getting the Quaife LSD complete with 3.46:1 ;)

Or maybe he just didn't get your email - sometimes messages do get lost or filtered as spam. Your loss.

I would consider re-emailing him again. He will respond to your email. Sometimes he is backed up with orders he must fill. I remember one time his shop had issues and he didn't respond to his emails for two days. His quality is top notch, which is the reason BMW race drivers use his LSDs. :thumbsup:

Never hurts to re-email him. If not, call him and leave a call back number for him to contact you at.

[njoni007]

Or maybe he just didn't get your email - sometimes messages do get lost or filtered as spam. Your loss.

Quaife LSD is the same as Torsen just different setup with the gears...and as we know nothing beats Audi on their Quattro system...partly to their Torsen LSD dynamic lockup.

I agree with the Jim B diff because it is fully custom and that gives you what you want...and that Clutch Diffs are very nice, but Torsen style do not heat up under heavy usage as there is little to no friction and no rebuild is required. I don't like Kaaz only because it involves "clutch pack" style and it is the "easy" way to LSD. Torsen style for serious drifters is not the best option as it does not provide "abrupt" luckup that drifters like to have (low powered cars need this abrupt lockup).

To my research I have come up with rating order from Torsen style, Clutch pack (BMW M3 uses this), Viscous (causes some loss of power) or Ferguson style.

[SPDu4ea]

I agree that for all-purpose, helical diffs (of which Torsen is one brand) are nearly always the best bet. However, they do have some disadvantages. They generally are not as strong as a clutch-type LSD so for some high power/torque applications with limited differential casing size, they will often have a high failure rate. They also do not like to have a wheel unweighted while applying power (they won't function properly unless both wheels have significant weight on the ground, and they are for more likely to break when applying power in this condition). So if you have certain types of suspension setups (soft springs, stiff swaybars for example) you want to avoid helical.

Examples of poor car setup for helical (inside rear tire has little weight on it):
http://nickgalanteracing.blogs.friendster.com/nick_galante_racing/images/m3_marina_right_side.jpg
http://rwdandslow.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/autocross.jpg

That said, their "torque sensing" ability usually is a great choice for autocross and road racing -- and their lack of clutch packs means they don't wear out any faster than an open diff.

[njoni007]

For break/failure under heavy load that is debatable because there are one to none ATB/Torsen LSD that have failed. ATB is used by Ford, GM, and Chrysler and Torsen mostly by Audi/VW (Although VW uses clutch type as well with electronic activation clutch where computer controlls torque 0-100%...something the new M3 has been talked about as might have as well?).

[SPDu4ea]

For break/failure under heavy load that is debatable because there are one to none ATB/Torsen LSD that have failed.

I beg to differ. Here are some broken Torsen T1 diffs (from Supras):


http://mkiiitech.com/brokenparts/deadtorsen.jpg
http://mkiiitech.com/brokenparts/deadtorsen2.jpg

Another:
http://www.echowavepro.com/supraphotos/torsen%20break.jpg
http://www.echowavepro.com/supraphotos/torsen%20break2.jpg


I can't find some of the other pictures of broken worm gears, but the larger Supra 6-speed Torsen T2 diffs fail that way (rather than the casing).


Immediate cause of failure is pretty standard: Impact load (hard launch, hard shift, wheel hop, etc). Subsequent analysis shows significant fatigue, so they can handle that type of action for a while before finally giving up...

Additionally, many of the high-hp drag guys switch from Torsens before they fail because the torsens have more of a tendency to pull to the left when launching...



Broken Rx7 T2 torsens:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/blacksi/000_0630.jpg
http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212537&stc=1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/blacksi/000_0631.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/blacksi/000_0632.jpg

[Tazlord]

LSD!
My 1999 Dodge Neon R/T came with an LSD. I was so shocked to find out my ZHP didn't have one. Hopefully I can find enough pennies to cover the cost of a good LSD after going broke installing a S/C.

Thanks for the info Brian. Very helpful!

[HighBoostin330]

Nice thread revival. No need to thank me, thank you all to the people on the thread bringing insightful information regarding the different types of LS units on the market. :bow:

Learn by doing. :)

[njoni007]

Anything is possible when you go nuts. But in general Torsen (Torque Sense) type LSD is allways much more reliable and needs no attention. If a military vehicle has it (all Humvies do), they must be reliable to make it into the arsenal lol

Like I said above Torsen is for everyday use including racetrack. Clutch type is better for serious drifting.

I know a Diff sub frame was torn apart when a friend down shifted into the wrong gear...and his drive shaft broke...so you get the idea ;)

[HighBoostin330]

Anything is possible when you go nuts. But in general Torsen (Torque Sense) type LSD is allways much more reliable and needs no attention. If a military vehicle has it (all Humvies do), they must be reliable to make it into the arsenal lol

Like I said above Torsen is for everyday use including racetrack. Clutch type is better for serious drifting.

On the racetrack, sometimes you get wheels lifted off the ground. How does the Torsen do its torque multiplication shifting to the other wheel in that case? :dunno:

[njoni007]

On the racetrack, sometimes you get wheels lifted off the ground. How does the Torsen do its torque multiplication shifting to the other wheel in that case? :dunno:

It needs a brake...all BMW have traction control (DSC off--traction on). This is for Torsen where it uses a cam to transfer torque evenly. Again with traction control this is still very well effective (Audi for instance uses traction on top of its center LSD)

Let me just add...the ATB style for this case (when the tire off the ground and no traction control is available) it actually still provides torque to the wheel with traction. It is only 0-80%. Inside the ATB LSD there is preload spring washer that creates an initial amount of torque (between the axle ends) that can be multiplied and transferred even with one wheel off the ground.

[HighBoostin330]

It needs a brake...all BMW have traction control (DSC off--traction on)

Let me just add...ATB style for this case (when the tire off the ground) actually still provides torque to the wheel with traction. It is only 0-80%. Inside the ATB LSD there is preload spring washer that creates an initial amount of torque (between the axle ends) that can be multiplied and transferred even with one wheel off the ground.

Okay, I'm a bit loss now...DSC is traction control. If you turn off DSC, you turn off traction control. :dunno:

In addition, we are talking about Torsen style LSDs right? I thought...

However, if one set of wheels loses traction completely, the Torsen differential will be unable to supply any torque to the other set of wheels. The bias ratio determines how much torque can be transferred, and five times zero is zero.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential6.htm

[njoni007]

Okay, I'm a bit loss now...DSC is traction control. If you turn off DSC, you turn off traction control. :dunno:

In addition, we are talking about Torsen style LSDs right? I thought...

No, that is the case for ASC (pre 2000 i think). DSC has 3 stages. Traction+Throtle control, Traction+No Throtle contorl (u have lots of power ;) still) , No control (hold it 3 seconds untill brake warning is on).

Yes we were talking about Torque Sense (gear type LSD :D) so Torsen and ATB LSD both work with gears (similar idea) but the difference between them is ATB does what Torsen can't (like the wheel off the ground).

[HighBoostin330]

No, that is the case for ASC (pre 2000 i think). DSC has 3 stages. Traction+Throtle control, Traction+No Throtle contorl (u have lots of power ;) still) , No control (hold it 3 seconds untill brake warning is on).

That is what I am saying.

You said DSC off, traction on. That would imply DSC off means traction control on.

But, I would agree DSC has three stages. I believe the first stage is full traction control. Second stage is traction control off and ABS on. Third stage is traction control off and ABS off.

[njoni007]

I donno but my 330Ci with its DSC when I press once (the warning light comes on) I have traction still on but allows me to go nuts with the gass but still tries to fix my traction when I am stuck I do that and it says so in the manual (ASC off - DTC on). The last stage then ABS never tries to do anything (ASC off DTC off)

[njoni007]

I will add this info from Quaife LSD:

Hello,



We can confirm that the ATB will become open of you lift a wheel.



Kind regards

Matt Simmons
Quaife Technical Sales


So the information is somewhat conflicting with another source I read and posted on this thread about Torsen vs. ATB LSD.

But, I guess if you are worried about one wheel getting off the ground, then DSC should help you there to apply brake to the wheel on the air hehe :D

Further, as for the previous comment for failure possibility, Quaife says ir has Lifetime warranty even when you race.

So, I hope those who read these threads will help them to decide :)