The quest for 50 additional rwhp...

[russ330]

So... I've slowly become used to the ~300rwhp I have now (Technik Stage I w/ 8 PSI pulley) and am wondering if getting an additional 50rwhp is feasible. I've seen dyno plots with cams and headers and it looks like it's around 325rwhp, so it seems like getting 25rwhp on top of that won't be easy.

A few notes here:

1. I don't want a fuking M3
2. I'm not the first national bank of Russell, so an M3 engine swap and then SC it ain't going to happen
3. Right now all I have for performance is the SC, no ceramic coated muffler bearings, no speed holes, nada
4. If possible I'd like to keep the TM-12, if not well then I'd have to put my plans on hold longer, no biggie
5. If raising the redline to help to reach that goal is an option I'm cool with that

Meh, that's about all I can think of, NCIS is coming on CBS right now so I'll check back later. Thanks fellas. :thumbup:

[2003330i]

So... I've slowly become used to the ~300rwhp I have now (Technik Stage I w/ 8 PSI pulley) and am wondering if getting an additional 50rwhp is feasible. I've seen dyno plots with cams and headers and it looks like it's around 325rwhp, so it seems like getting 25rwhp on top of that won't be easy.

A few notes here:

1. I don't want a fuking M3
2. I'm not the first national bank of Russell, so an M3 engine swap and then SC it ain't going to happen
3. Right now all I have for performance is the SC, no ceramic coated muffler bearings, no speed holes, nada
4. If possible I'd like to keep the TM-12, if not well then I'd have to put my plans on hold longer, no biggie
5. If raising the redline to help to reach that goal is an option I'm cool with that

Meh, that's about all I can think of, NCIS is coming on CBS right now so I'll check back later. Thanks fellas. :thumbup:


it wont be 50 rwhp but raise your boost, get headers and FI cams

[BayerischeMW]

a few ideas:

1. aggressive S/C cams (such as 260/268) will probably give you the biggest gain
2. headers are restrictive on these cars, so new free-flowing headers will give a good gain
3. a ported & polished head will work nicely together with headers and cams and give a decent gain
4. increased redline with the above should allow the powercurve to keep rising beyond 6000-6500 rpm
5. straight pipes and no cats
6. perhaps the new intake manifold Technik is working on?

if you wanna go real crazy though, lowering the compression and upping the boost is an idea. but you'd have to get the tm15/17 compressor unit for this to be truly effective.. and the piston kit for lowering the compression is quite expensive.

i think the easiest way of getting close to 350 rwhp is the one you've said you won't, getting a bigger compressor with more boost and team that up with suggestions 1-6 above.

[2003330i]

a few ideas:

1. aggressive S/C cams (such as 260/268) will probably give you the biggest gain
2. headers are restrictive on these cars, so new free-flowing headers will give a good gain
3. a ported & polished head will work nicely together with headers and cams and give a decent gain
4. increased redline with the above should allow the powercurve to keep rising beyond 6000-6500 rpm
5. straight pipes and no cats
6. perhaps the new intake manifold Technik is working on?

if you wanna go real crazy though, lowering the compression and upping the boost is an idea. but you'd have to get the tm15/17 compressor unit for this to be truly effective.. and the piston kit for lowering the compression is quite expensive.

i think the easiest way of getting close to 350 rwhp is the one you've said you won't, getting a bigger compressor with more boost and team that up with suggestions 1-6 above.

samir had told me that you wont see a big gain with the intake manifold unless you running a nice amount of boost.

[russ330]

Thanks for the inputs thus far, keep 'em comin' fellas. :harv:

[HighBoostin330]

From what I have read, the TM15 flows alot better for higher boost - which would give you more power. So that should be factored into your options. With higher boost you should uncork the exhaust side of the car with cams, P&P heads, and headers. Just a thought. :)

[jdm3]

If you replace the dual resonance intake manifold with a custom piece manufactured for high RPM power, will you not loose a ton of torque when combined with a centrifugal SC that don't boost much low in the RPM range? I mean, there must be a reason BMW put the dual resonance system there?:dunno:

[samir@technik]

If you replace the dual resonance intake manifold with a custom piece manufactured for high RPM power, will you not loose a ton of torque when combined with a centrifugal SC that don't boost much low in the RPM range? I mean, there must be a reason BMW put the dual resonance system there?:dunno:

No, that's the whole point. The 2-stage was designed to work with natural aspiration, since nothing is forcing air into the engine. With boost, the 2-stage is somewhat irrelevant and becomes a restriction (especially with high-boost).

[jdm3]

I can understand that on high airflow conditions, but on a cf system, the boost under 3K is virtually nothing, and the elimination of the long intake path of the dual resonance under these conditions must mean a loss of low end torque compared to a cf running on a stock manifold. Airspeed will be higher in the low RPM range with the factory manifold? I see the point with high RPM power increase, but the engine is already quite high RPM happy with little low end torque on a normal cf setup, will this new manifold not just increase that characteristic with even lower bottom end torque traded for more top end?:dunno:

[samir@technik]

I can understand that on high airflow conditions, but on a cf system, the boost under 3K is virtually nothing, and the elimination of the long intake path of the dual resonance under these conditions must mean a loss of low end torque compared to a cf running on a stock manifold. Airspeed will be higher in the low RPM range with the factory manifold? I see the point with high RPM power increase, but the engine is already quite high RPM happy with little low end torque on a normal cf setup, will this new manifold not just increase that characteristic with even lower bottom end torque traded for more top end?:dunno:

We verified this on the dyno by turning DISA on and off. The loss in low-end torque was negligible even with a CF. Granted, the ASA unit spools a lot quicker than a traditional CF, but in this case (ASA CF), having the 2-stage doesn't really benefit that much. That being said, I wouldn't recommend switching out to a straight shot manifold unless you're going to run upwards of 9-10psi and cams. It's not really worth the effort or cost to switch it out with low boost. Just like the cams, the higher the boost, the more you will gain.

[Mike Benvo]

russ, I would definitly go with the Technik cams. Although it's not going to give you 50WHP, it will give you a nice noticeable gain and really opens the car up on top.

Also, increasing the boost with those cams creates more and more power on top, so you mayu be able to reach your goal with those cams, and a Tm15. The TM12 I belive is most efficient around 6-8PSI?

[2003330i]

russ, I would definitly go with the Technik cams. Although it's not going to give you 50WHP, it will give you a nice noticeable gain and really opens the car up on top.

Also, increasing the boost with those cams creates more and more power on top, so you mayu be able to reach your goal with those cams, and a Tm15. The TM12 I belive is most efficient around 6-8PSI?

when you dynoed your car at like 340 or so didn you have the tm15 or tm17?
what boost?
i know you had cam and headers.

[Reno]

post pics of your car! :eeps:

[Mike Benvo]

when you dynoed your car at like 340 or so didn you have the tm15 or tm17?
what boost?
i know you had cam and headers.

I've always had the Tm17, but the older version of it. I made around ~330 rwhp before the FI cams, and ~360whp after the cams. With racing gas and the new metal BPV's I installed (because the POS Bosch ones were leaking), my car would definitly put down 400whp in the right conditons.

Regardless, the car currently has no motor in it. I'm done with stage III and Samir and I are taking this car to a new level with prototyping of the Stage IV system. It's going to be one monster of a vehicle :thumbup::


http://exservers.com/stgivnomo.JPG


:P Can't wait.

[russ330]

Thanks for the tips Mike, do you have the 260/268 Cams?

[Mike Benvo]

Thanks for the tips Mike, do you have the 260/268 Cams?

Anytime.

I dont have the 260/268 cams on the Stg III setup, just the 248/256 ones. The 260/268 cams are too agressive for boost pressures under 14psi or so. The new motor getting dropped in already has the newer 260/268 cams installed because it will be running 15+ psi.

[2003330i]

Anytime.

I dont have the 260/268 cams on the Stg III setup, just the 248/256 ones. The 260/268 cams are too agressive for boost pressures under 14psi or so. The new motor getting dropped in already has the newer 260/268 cams installed because it will be running 15+ psi.

so when i get cams i should get the 248/256 ones. i eventualy am going to go inside the engine as soon as samir tell me what heads and rods to get. he told me that they dont have a kit for my car yet

[GBX330ci]

I'm running the TM-12 blower on my 330 with TEchnik stage 1 sw and injectors, as well as some mods to my stock fuel pressure reg, and my car is putting down 351whp. The engine is stock. Its doable.....

[Mike Benvo]

russ, I also suggest upgrading to the Hyperboost HX valves as well. This will yield a worthy gain (especially if your current plastic ones are leaking like mine were)

[e330zhp46]

mike....on the stock motor what has been found as the upper limit of power before the internals have to be changed......rods, pistons, lifters etc...at what point is it better to seek an engine rebuild than push the strength of the factory internals.......

[Genie]

very easy:

ad a 65 shot NOS to your intake, ita a 4 hour DIY and only sets you back 800$ or less with the best kit available.

[russ330]

^I've heard from reputable sources that they're not comfortable using nitrous. Something about the ECU freaking out seeing the sudden onset of additional O2 at high RPM, I guess there's a danger of the car running lean. One may be able to escape that potential by going with a wet set up and using high (race gas) octane fuel to limit the danger of running lean. If one were go go with such a wet set up, it would cost more than $800 and 4 hours of labor, not to mention I'm not even sure where I would get those two items (nitrous and race gas) around here.

Thanks for the suggestion though. :thumbup:

Mike Are there any signs of the bypass valves leaking?

[Custom3]

Were you get your boser hood from?.....:bow:


So... I've slowly become used to the ~300rwhp I have now (Technik Stage I w/ 8 PSI pulley) and am wondering if getting an additional 50rwhp is feasible. I've seen dyno plots with cams and headers and it looks like it's around 325rwhp, so it seems like getting 25rwhp on top of that won't be easy.

A few notes here:

1. I don't want a fuking M3
2. I'm not the first national bank of Russell, so an M3 engine swap and then SC it ain't going to happen
3. Right now all I have for performance is the SC, no ceramic coated muffler bearings, no speed holes, nada
4. If possible I'd like to keep the TM-12, if not well then I'd have to put my plans on hold longer, no biggie
5. If raising the redline to help to reach that goal is an option I'm cool with that

Meh, that's about all I can think of, NCIS is coming on CBS right now so I'll check back later. Thanks fellas. :thumbup:

[russ330]

M1Autobody/DTM Autohaus :thumbup: I don't think they make them any more though. :(

[Custom3]

yeah i heard they dont make them anymore...i seen it on some website the other day...they wanted $1,200 for it...:thumbdwn:...plus it was carbon fiber and i dont want it carbon :bawling: ...thanks for the quick reply:thumbup:

[russ330]

^No problem. :) FYI, carbon fiber can always be painted. My hood is CF but painted (somewhat ;) ).

[sheefo2k]

ahhhhhhhhh i want booost.....
Mike check pm...

[Mike Benvo]

mike....on the stock motor what has been found as the upper limit of power before the internals have to be changed......rods, pistons, lifters etc...at what point is it better to seek an engine rebuild than push the strength of the factory internals.......

On a 330/325, 10PSI should be the limit. If you decide to run more than 7 or 8 on the stock motor, I highly suggest changing your head bolts because with that amount of boost the head has a tendency to lift up. This may cause problems such as bleeding boost into the coolant system, and loss of power/compression. But as far as the internals themselves, 10PSI.

Russ: If you are talking about the Hyperboost ones, no sign of leakage whatsoever. Night and day difference over the Bosch 710C/710N valves.

[e330zhp46]

thanks for the reply on the boost question.....j/w...have you heard of the new 330 ZHP software that AA has some out with......it raises the rev limiter to 7200....although "only" 400 higher than the standard rev limiter on the ZHP.....im not sure how hard BMW pushed this setup to have the 6800 limiter from stock....how will the engine hold up with the extra 400 tacked on there.....mind you that only on special occations will i be reving to 7200.........:thumbup:

[GBX330ci]

On a 330/325, 10PSI should be the limit. If you decide to run more than 7 or 8 on the stock motor, I highly suggest changing your head bolts because with that amount of boost the head has a tendency to lift up. This may cause problems such as bleeding boost into the coolant system, and loss of power/compression.

Have anyone experienced this problem. My car is running great, but wondering if its something i should keep a close eye on.

[Mike Benvo]

Have anyone experienced this problem. My car is running great, but wondering if its something i should keep a close eye on.

Yes, Me.

But I can't say it wasn't improper installation of the head.... It's possible that the shop that installed my head after my first set of cams (not technik) used the same head bolts, instead of replacing them.

If you don't have coolant venting out the coolant cap then you are fine... Plus, you aren't revving to almost 7k, so you really don't have much to worry about.

[GBX330ci]

Yes, Me.

But I can't say it wasn't improper installation of the head.... It's possible that the shop that installed my head after my first set of cams (not technik) used the same head bolts, instead of replacing them.

If you don't have coolant venting out the coolant cap then you are fine... Plus, you aren't revving to almost 7k, so you really don't have much to worry about.

Good to hear! Thanks Mike.