UUC - Breaking the $1000 Big Brake Kit price.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

NEW BRAKE PACKAGES FOR 1992-2005 3-series:
(Coming soon for E46 M3!)

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/s6f300.jpg (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/s6f700.jpg)

STAGE 2 KIT: Front-only Superlite 4-piston (choice of 1-piece or floating 325mm rotor). Recommended for DE and BMW CCA Prepared* class racing. Retains correct front/rear brake bias with original rear brakes (must specify model when ordering).

STAGE 3 KIT: Four-wheel kit using Superlite 4-piston (optional 6-piston) front and matching Superlite 4-piston rear (choice of 1-piece or floating rotors, 325mm front and 328mm rear). Ideal for Prepared*/Enduro racing, maximum amount of brake torque and pad thickness front and rear. Correct front/rear bias retained (must specify model when ordering).

* BMW CCA Club Racing Prepared class rules specify that 4-piston version is legal.

For more details, options, pricing, and pad options, please visit our website:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc

Pricing starts at $1099... subtract $100 with the introductory offer for E46Fanatics members for the $999 Big Brake Kit special!

Incorporating the real-world needs of racers and street car enthusiasts, UUC offers a "rationalized" brake package that uses premium Wilwood Engineering components for better braking, lighter weight, and idealized front/rear brake bias, all in an affordable package with the largest offering of performance street and race pads available.

The latest innovation in our Stage2 and Stage3 brake kits is the use of the larger E46 M3 rotors. This gives you the choice of affordable 1-piece "standard" rotors or race-ready genuine BMW Motorsport floating rotors... and replacement rotors are never further away than your local BMW dealer or favorite parts reseller!

SPECIAL FOR E46FANATICS.COM MEMBERS!

Take $100 off any UUC/Superlite E46 brake package until 6/14/2006. Use coupon code "SL100" or click this link to activate coupon:

http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/?Coupon=SL100

Wilwood incorporates a variety of innovative and time proven performance enhancements in its caliper designs. They include forged or high-strength billet construction, differential piston bores, high temperature seals, SRS Squeal Reduction and bridge reinforcement plates, internal heat shields, quick access pad retention, shock dampened fluid tubes, and center bridge bolts (features vary by model).

For more details, options, pricing, and pad options, please visit our website:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc

[netengwiz]

Rob, what is the difference between Stage 2/3 and Stage 1? Is it just the calipers? I'm just curious why Stage 1 costs more.

Also, it appears these kits are tailored to track use. How well do these fit street use?

[Nico3k]

I am soooo getting these... call me crazy, but I went through 5 rotors in 1 year via BMW warranty. The 325 brakes are rediculously crappy

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob, what is the difference between Stage 2/3 and Stage 1? Is it just the calipers? I'm just curious why Stage 1 costs more.

Also, it appears these kits are tailored to track use. How well do these fit street use?

Stage1 is being phased out... the added expense of that kit was the 2-piece rotors that were outsourced, the cost for the hats effectively doubled the price of the rotor assembly.

With the Stage2/3 kits using the E46 M3 rotor design, we can source the genuine BMW Motorsport 2-piece/floating rotors at price lower than simple 2-piece aftermarket rotors. Effectively, we're piggybacking on BMW factory Motorsport technology and lowering the cost at the same time. Win-win.

The difference between Stage2 and Stage3 is that Stage2 is offered as a "front only" kit and is set up for perfect bias with the original rear brakes. Stage3 is offered as a "four wheel" kit with perfect bias incorporating larger rears also.

- Rob

[netengwiz]

I am soooo getting these... call me crazy, but I went through 5 rotors in 1 year via BMW warranty. The 325 brakes are rediculously crappy

Yeah, my rotors are done also, that's why I'm debating about these. My only concern is whether or not it's worth it for street application. In my case it would be for looks :)

[russ330]

Aren't those the same size rotors as the 330? Also, I've looked at some of the pics on the website, but I haven't seen one that had nice sideways (or like a pic similar to the 6 piston caliper BBK shown in your post) shot of the Superlite 4 piston caliper.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Also, it appears these kits are tailored to track use. How well do these fit street use?

Sorry, missed the second part of that question.

They work great for street use, better pedal feel than the OE brakes. We've been using various configurations on several cars now for street and track use continuously for the better part of a year to test durability in real-world conditions.

There are a number of very good street pad choices; my personal favorite is Wilwood's BP-10 pad, a ceramic-base pad with low dust characteristics similar to the Akebono ProACT Ceramic or Hawk Performance Ceramic.

- Rob

[xS3x]

NEW BRAKE PACKAGES FOR 1992-2005 3-series:
(Coming soon for E46 M3!)

STAGE 3 KIT: Four-wheel kit using Superlite 4-piston (optional 6-piston) front and matching Superlite 4-piston rear (choice of 1-piece or floating rotors, 325mm front and 328mm rear). Ideal for Prepared*/Enduro racing, maximum amount of brake torque and pad thickness front and rear. Correct front/rear bias retained (must specify model when ordering).


how come the rear rotors are bigger than the fronts?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Aren't those the same size rotors as the 330?

330 rotors are 3mm narrower and not available with the true floating design.

The significant performance advantages come from the Superlite pad size (and depth), the stiffness of the fixed caliper, and the weight.

Also, I've looked at some of the pics on the website, but I haven't seen one that had nice sideways (or like a pic similar to the 6 piston caliper BBK shown in your post) shot of the Superlite 4 piston caliper.

We haven't completed "for publication" photography, but this gives you an idea:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/super4x.jpg

Obviously, the black plating on the rotor wears off in the pad sweep area when used.

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

how come the rear rotors are bigger than the fronts?

That's how BMW fits them to the E46 M3, and is part of a move on the part of BMW's engineering to "beef up" the rear brakes which have historically had substantially smaller rear rotors.

- Rob

[XoDuZz]

Great Deal!

[zulu4]

thank goodness i pre-ordered or i'll be at the end of a long waiting list!

get me my brakes quick and i'll post a review!

[T3LU_03]

Do you think it will fit 325XI?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Do you think it will fit 325XI?

It should... 325Xi uses all the same original brake components as the non-Xi models.

Tell you what - because we don't have an Xi to test, I'll offer you a "fitment guarantee" for your Xi. If they don't fit, 100% refund.

- Rob

[Asterisk*]

WOW! Sweet BBK + sweet price!! :bow: I'm all after them when I get my suspension and wheels done.

[silver330ciman]

Hey Rob,
Sorry to ask on this thread, but are tse3 going to be available again soon for a 330ci? I noticed your website says it's backordered...

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Hey Rob,
Sorry to ask on this thread, but are tse3 going to be available again soon for a 330ci? I noticed your website says it's backordered...

Should be in stock again next week.

- Rob

[advantyper]

Hi Rob

Could we get larger rotors with this kit? or is the rotors the only size u can pick from for an Z4 3.0?

Tks

[crazy01]

Hey Rob, i have 18x8.5 BBS RGR's. Will these brakes clear my wheels?

[T3LU_03]

why the red caliper is more expensive than the black caliper?

[ADA]

why the red caliper is more expensive than the black caliper?

Because the Red is powder coated and the black is anodized.:shhh:

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Good deal guys, happy to start seeing prices coming down on these things. Have you done any tests to quantify the difference in stopping power from the 6-pot vs 4-pot calipers on two identical cars.

I think a couple benchmark 60-0 tests (in case the cars are a bit different) and a bunch of 100-0, or 120-0 tests (say 10 in a row) would give a great benchmark for the difference between the kits. Obviously on a track 100-40 would be more normal than 100-0, but its harder to measure a distance that way.

Basically I'm trying to figure out where it becomes just for the bling factor to keep adding pistons to these things.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Could we get larger rotors with this kit? or is the rotors the only size u can pick from for an Z4 3.0?

To offer larger front rotors, you would have to get a 4-wheel kit so that we can maintain good front/rear bias.

Hey Rob, i have 18x8.5 BBS RGR's. Will these brakes clear my wheels?

You should not have a problem, the BBS wheels are very generous in terms of brake kit clearance. The fronts are the only concern as the rears have about another 1" of clearance due to the design of the BMW rear hub.

We offer wheel fitment diagrams...

Four piston:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/SUPERLITE4_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

Six piston:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/SUPERLITE6_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

Simply print out, glue to a piece of cardboard, cut out the profile, and fit it into your wheel. That will tell you exactly if they fit, you can do that with any wheel.

Because the Red is powder coated and the black is anodized.

That's exactly right. It simply costs more to do the powdercoating.

Good deal guys, happy to start seeing prices coming down on these things. Have you done any tests to quantify the difference in stopping power from the 6-pot vs 4-pot calipers on two identical cars.
...
Basically I'm trying to figure out where it becomes just for the bling factor to keep adding pistons to these things.

It's not a question of stopping distances or bling at all - in fact, the 4-piston and 6-piston perform almost identically.

The advantage to the 6-piston primarily has to do with additional wheel clearance, about 5mm... which is critical for some wheel fitments if the owner does not wish to (or simply cannot) use spacers.

The 6-piston is a special Wilwood "narrow body" design for this reason - and that's also why the pad is different than the 4-piston. Same profile, but the 6-piston's pad is 4mm shallower (still an impressive 16mm!) than the 4-piston's version.

I think a couple benchmark 60-0 tests (in case the cars are a bit different) and a bunch of 100-0, or 120-0 tests (say 10 in a row) would give a great benchmark for the difference between the kits. Obviously on a track 100-40 would be more normal than 100-0, but its harder to measure a distance that way.

As always, the important reason to buy a brake kit is not for increased stopping distances - the reason to buy a brake kit is for improved heat management. Specifically, heat absorption and dissipation properties.

Heat management is the key to getting the most out of brakes in a track or race environment where repeated hard braking can rapidly overheat OE-size brakes and OE-type pads. The important data to collect is how the rotor and caliper temps change with repeated use... which of course leads to shorter (or at least maintained) stopping distances when hot, where the OE system will lengthen.

Summing it up best from a data perspective is this quote from European Car magazine's article on our Mini Cooper S brake package (data on the BMW kits is currently be compiled with production components):

"UUC established a baseline for the stock system with 20 60-to-0-mph ABS-assisted stops in a row with a 2-min. break after 10 stops to measure rotor and caliper temperatures. After 10 stops, the distance jumped from 120 feet to 158 ft (average 135 ft) with smoking pads and a spongy pedal. The rotor temperature was past the Raytek MiniTemp MT Pyrometer's 525degreesF max and the caliper showed 275degreesF.

The short break helped, but the second 10 runs still averaged 141 ft with the rotor temp still off the scale and the caliper temperature climbing to 410degreesF. Pedal feel was described as 'wooden' and the fluid had been boiled, necessitating bleeding the system.

The UUC upgrade on the other hand, averaged 128 ft over the first 10 stops with rotor and caliper temps of 380degreesF and 220degreesF respectively and no change in pedal feel. The average stopping distance climbed slightly to 132 ft for the second set of 10 runs with the rotor temps climbing to 485degreesF and the caliper to 280degreesF but the pedal feel never changed. In fairness, it should be noted, Sabnani also installed matching rear pads. He also noted braking was more linear, stayed very consistent and the sometimes twitchy Cooper S was even more controllable than stock."

- Rob

[ice330ci05]

damn, finally a BBK thats not OVERKILL on price :thumbup: .... there are lots of people interested, maybe we should start a GB :)

[advantyper]

Thanks Rob, can we start a GB for the 4 wheel kit?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Thanks Rob, can we start a GB for the 4 wheel kit?

Sheesh - that's why we did the $100 off coupon, to head off that kind of request! :D

- Rob

[ADA]

Sheesh - that's why we did the $100 off coupon, to head off that kind of request! :D

- Rob


Or you can wait once a year for the annual "UUC BYODP Sale." :yikes:

BYODP = By your own damn present

[///OSS]

so let me get this straight is there going to be another option with even larger front rotors?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Or you can wait once a year for the annual "UUC BYODP Sale." :yikes:

BYODP = By your own damn present

Yep - only seven more months! :D

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

so let me get this straight is there going to be another option with even larger front rotors?

There may be in the future, but it's not in current development. Cost would be at least a few hundred dollars higher.

- Rob

[Ack]

Rob,

I was looking at pricing on the site and noticed an error with the four wheel set:

The Red 6 piston Slotted 1 Piece are listed as $2,748:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/pacampora/Red_6Piston.jpg







While the same config in Black is $3,618






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/pacampora/Black_6Piston.jpg

Could you let me know what the price is for the black for a 330Ci?

Thanks!

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob,

I was looking at pricing on the site and noticed an error with the four wheel set:
The Red 6 piston Slotted 1 Piece are listed as $2,748:
While the same config in Black is $3,618
Could you let me know what the price is for the black for a 330Ci?
Thanks!

Oops! Sorry about that, a mistake in the database. It's been corrected to $2498:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/6blcorrected.jpg

- Rob

[Ack]

Oops! Sorry about that, a mistake in the database. It's been corrected to $2498:

- Rob

Thanks Rob! :thumbup:

[vaio76109]

Summing it up best from a data perspective is this quote from European Car magazine's article on our Mini Cooper S brake package (data on the BMW kits is currently be compiled with production components):

"UUC established a baseline for the stock system with 20 60-to-0-mph ABS-assisted stops in a row with a 2-min. break after 10 stops to measure rotor and caliper temperatures. After 10 stops, the distance jumped from 120 feet to 158 ft (average 135 ft) with smoking pads and a spongy pedal. The rotor temperature was past the Raytek MiniTemp MT Pyrometer's 525degreesF max and the caliper showed 275degreesF.

The short break helped, but the second 10 runs still averaged 141 ft with the rotor temp still off the scale and the caliper temperature climbing to 410degreesF. Pedal feel was described as 'wooden' and the fluid had been boiled, necessitating bleeding the system.

The UUC upgrade on the other hand, averaged 128 ft over the first 10 stops with rotor and caliper temps of 380degreesF and 220degreesF respectively and no change in pedal feel. The average stopping distance climbed slightly to 132 ft for the second set of 10 runs with the rotor temps climbing to 485degreesF and the caliper to 280degreesF but the pedal feel never changed. In fairness, it should be noted, Sabnani also installed matching rear pads. He also noted braking was more linear, stayed very consistent and the sometimes twitchy Cooper S was even more controllable than stock."

- Rob
What pads were the stock and the UUC kit using?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

What pads were the stock and the UUC kit using?

Stock was with OE pads, UUC was with Akebono ProACT Ceramic (similar to Wilwood BP-10).

- Rob

[vaio76109]

Stock was with OE pads, UUC was with Akebono ProACT Ceramic (similar to Wilwood BP-10).

- Rob
Well that pretty much voids any conclusion the results of your test were. They really need to have the same pads for it to be a fair comparison worth any merit. We all know the stock pads suck.

I mean are we comparing BBK to no BBK, or pad vs pad here?

Were the cars even the same? tires?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Well that pretty much voids any conclusion the results of your test were. They really need to have the same pads for it to be a fair comparison worth any merit. We all know the stock pads suck.

Actually, it's an extremely valid test. As long as the pads are not run to the point of complete failure, they're still converting kinetic energy into thermal engergy (heat), and you are relying on the surface area and mass of the rotors to absorb and then dissipate that heat.

The same amount of thermal energy is created in the conversion of kinetic energy (the deceleration of X amount of mass from Y to Z speed) regardless of what pads and rotors are being used. Energy is energy.

Looking at the components as heat sinks working within their acceptable temperature range, the inability of the smaller OE components to dissipate that heat exhibits their inferiority in the performance application. The fact that OE pads were used is immaterial; enough heat was generated that the rotor temp went excessively high - in fact, had the pad overheated and could not generate more heat, the rotor would have been cooler... and with a pad capable of generating greater temps, the rotor temp would have been even higher!

The Akebono ProACT used in the test is a street pad. It's cefficient of friction is indeed very similar to the OE pad in the test car... the principle claims to fame of the Akebono are lower dust and greater longevity. It doesn't claim to be an "aggressive" pad like a Hawk HP-Plus or any type of race pad.

What was shown to fail as it was taken beyond it's acceptable temperature range was the fluid; the fluid was boiled by the caliper design, specificaly the OE caliper's failure to keep the heat out of the fluid.

So the test was completely valid no matter how you look at it. Even moreso, what you will note is that unlike other brands' published tests, our test was done with the exact same car, the exact same tires, on the exact same test road surface, with the same ambient temperature. The testing is repeatable and was performed with the European Car magazine writer present. Any irregularities would certainly have been noted!

- Rob

[vaio76109]

Actually, it's an extremely valid test.

... the rotor temp would have been even higher!

The Akebono ProACT used in the test is a street pad. It's cefficient of friction is indeed very similar to the OE pad in the test car... the principle claims to fame of the Akebono are lower dust and greater longevity. It doesn't claim to be an "aggressive" pad like a Hawk HP-Plus or any type of race pad.

What was shown to fail as it was taken beyond it's acceptable temperature range was the fluid; the fluid was boiled by the caliper design, specificaly the OE caliper's failure to keep the heat out of the fluid.

So the test was completely valid no matter how you look at it. Even moreso, what you will note is that unlike other brands' published tests, our test was done with the exact same car, the exact same tires, on the exact same test road surface, with the same ambient temperature. The testing is repeatable and was performed with the European Car magazine writer present. Any irregularities would certainly have been noted!

- Rob
It's extremely valid from your point of view as the seller. The bigger the difference the more impressive your kit looks.

So what if the rotor temp would have been higher? Rotors can glow red, I fail to see your point.

Very similiar maybe, but not identical. Alot of street tires are "very similiar", but they're not the same.

HAHA, funny you should say such a thing. I have a friend who has one of your BBK(not the wilwood, the previous one) and his fluid will boil out of the resevoir. I guess it's a poor caliper design.

Funny how you took so much time to run the same car, same tires, same surface, same temperature, yet a different pad. What you did is NO different from running the same car, same pads, same surface, same temperature, but different tires.

Your results are absolutely USELESS because you compared them using different pads. If you're so confident in your BBK(or PBK or wtf you call it) then compare them as I've noted. But untill then, this is a false comparo.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

With all due respect, I don't think you really understood the points I made in my previous post.

Please re-read that post as I think it answers all of your points.

However, I will point out one other thing - "similar" pads and "similar" tires produce "similar" results, often to the point of being interchangeable. For example, there was a recent performance tire test in one of the magazines, testing about 10 different manufacturer's tires. All were in the "max performance" category, and all performed quite similarly... slalom tests and other measurements were within scant decimal places of each other. The ranking determination had to be done subjectively, how one "felt" in certain conditions versus another... the actual objective measurements, if ranked, were of less importance.

Again, what you will see (and what you really should be ranting about), is some of the "big name" BBK manufacturers who do indeed test different cars with different tires and are quite happy to publish their results as gospel.

The UUC test was one of the fairest tests around.

If you would prefer to discuss this further, please feel free to call me during the day at 908-874-9092. That way, we can avoid any further misconceptions being posted that would confuse the people reading the thread.

- Rob

[vaio76109]

With all due respect, I don't think you really understood the points I made in my previous post.

Please re-read that post as I think it answers all of your points.

However, I will point out one other thing - "similar" pads and "similar" tires produce "similar" results, often to the point of being interchangeable. For example, there was a recent performance tire test in one of the magazines, testing about 10 different manufacturer's tires. All were in the "max performance" category, and all performed quite similarly... slalom tests and other measurements were within scant decimal places of each other. The ranking determination had to be done subjectively, how one "felt" in certain conditions versus another... the actual objective measurements, if ranked, were of less importance.

Again, what you will see (and what you really should be ranting about), is some of the "big name" BBK manufacturers who do indeed test different cars with different tires and are quite happy to publish their results as gospel.

The UUC test was one of the fairest tests around.

If you would prefer to discuss this further, please feel free to call me during the day at 908-874-9092. That way, we can avoid any further misconceptions being posted that would confuse the people reading the thread.

- Rob
I don't think you understood the points I made either... with all due respect.

This isn't about how other manufacturers test and compare, this is about your BBK. Stop trying to change the subject.

"One of the fairest", congratulations, but it still wasn't as fair as it should have been. Do you want a medal? Like I said, if you're so confident compare them with the same pads, simple as that.

You just want me out of the thread because you think I'm hurting any potential sales, when in reality I'm trying to inform the public. I never downplayed your BBK, just your comparison numbers.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

I don't think you understood the points I made either... with all due respect.

Okay, then - let's play it your way and deconstruct your post:

You wrote:
It's extremely valid from your point of view as the seller. The bigger the difference the more impressive your kit looks.

Besides being insulting and inflammatory, it's been historically proven from my years on this (and other) message boards that I don't need to "sell". UUC offers the best (or best for a specific use) components, explains the differences that affect actual results, and we let the potential user decide if he wants it. "Selling" is mindless "this is the best!!!!" advertising with nothing but a low-low-low!!! price to entice the customer. Whis something we most definitely do not do.

You wrote:
"So what if the rotor temp would have been higher? Rotors can glow red, I fail to see your point."

This is exactly where I knew you did not understand.

I'll simplify the earlier explanation; braking is all about energy... mechanical energy (forward motion of the car) is converted to thermal energy (heat) by the process of friction within the brake assembly. Your car slows down as heat is created.

A brake system's capability is limited by heat. If it cannot get rid of the heat, it overheats (simple enough). The brake system is working as designed as long as it is dissipating (getting rid of) the heat fast enough to avoid failure. Get the brakes hot enough, no more heat energy is created because the thermal limit has been exceeded, and no more slowing happens.

So to the point about the rotor temperature as affected by the pads - the more "aggressive" the pad, the more rapidly it generates friction. Slowing a car a specific amount (60mph to 0mph) means dissipating a fixed amount of energy. An aggressive pad can convert that energy faster, generating the same heat in a shorter period of time.

Measuring the rotor temperature immediately upon stopping reveals the thermal conversion, in that more heat (same heat over a shorter time) is retained in the rotor as the rotor has not been able to dissipate that heat yet.

The fact that the rotor temps rose at a similar rate shows that both brands of pads had similar coefficients of friction - one was not "more aggressive" than the other. The fact that it was the smaller OE rotor's heat continued to rise is proof that it could not dissipate the heat, while the UUC rotor's temp levelled off... the rotor was able to dissipate heat at a sufficient range that "new" heat from repeated stops did not overwhelm it's capabilities.

You wrote:
"I have a friend who has one of your BBK(not the wilwood, the previous one) and his fluid will boil out of the resevoir. I guess it's a poor caliper design."

That doesn't show "poor caliper design". In fact, it doesn't show anything specific at all without further examination. It could be showing bad fluid (old and full of moisture, which lowers boiling point), it could be showing that he was actually using the components to the point of heat soak, and transferring excess heat to the fluid. And, to those with suffucient experience, it's something that happens quite often in extreme use, even when all the components are in good shape.

But the one thing we definitely know is that it has no bearing on this discussion as they are completely different components.


You wrote:
"Funny how you took so much time to run the same car, same tires, same surface, same temperature, yet a different pad. What you did is NO different from running the same car, same pads, same surface, same temperature, but different tires.

As proven above, the pads were not of any practical difference in the test.

Also, something you might not be aware of, the Akebono pad material is OEM for VW, Ford (and possibly Mercedes), and has practically interchangeable characteristics to the Jurid and Textar pads that BMW/MINI uses.

You wrote:
"Your results are absolutely USELESS because you compared them using different pads. If you're so confident in your BBK(or PBK or wtf you call it) then compare them as I've noted. But untill then, this is a false comparo.

A critically important part about understanding tests is understanding the test parameters - and specifically knowing what minor differences affect the results, and which ones do not. We've proven that your fixation on the only factor of pad brand is a non-issue.


This isn't about how other manufacturers test and compare, this is about your BBK. Stop trying to change the subject.

I'm not changing the subject at all. I'm pointing out that of the many tests that E46Fanatics.com has had presented on linked manufacturers' websites, that I know you personally have been a member at the time (and likely have read), that I have not seen you so vigorously attack those obviously invalid tests.

"One of the fairest", congratulations, but it still wasn't as fair as it should have been. Do you want a medal? Like I said, if you're so confident compare them with the same pads, simple as that.

Besides being antagonistic (although semi-accurate - our products do win awards :D ), that comment has already been refuted. The tested pads were, for all practical purposes, interchangeable.


You just want me out of the thread because you think I'm hurting any potential sales, when in reality I'm trying to inform the public. I never downplayed your BBK, just your comparison numbers.

No, I'm just trying to explain why you should not be presenting your misunderstanding as any sort of valid complaint about the test. The problem with message boards, and more specifically the reason why many manufacturers simply do not post, do not assist their customer base, and simply "give up" is that it's an environment where a layperson can, intentionally or otherwise, throw a product or company into an underserved bad light. That your misunderstanding of test parameters can be mistakenly seen by other readers of the thread as accurate is a complete disservice to those people.

The offer to discuss this personally on the phone is always open - to anyone.

- Rob

[vaio76109]

I'm gonna keep this short
You wrote:
"So what if the rotor temp would have been higher? Rotors can glow red, I fail to see your point."

This is exactly where I knew you did not understand.

So to the point about the rotor temperature as affected by the pads - the more "aggressive" the pad, the more rapidly it generates friction. Slowing a car a specific amount (60mph to 0mph) means dissipating a fixed amount of energy. An aggressive pad can convert that energy faster, generating the same heat in a shorter period of time.

Measuring the rotor temperature immediately upon stopping reveals the thermal conversion, in that more heat (same heat over a shorter time) is retained in the rotor as the rotor has not been able to dissipate that heat yet.

The fact that the rotor temps rose at a similar rate shows that both brands of pads had similar coefficients of friction - one was not "more aggressive" than the other. The fact that it was the smaller OE rotor's heat continued to rise is proof that it could not dissipate the heat, while the UUC rotor's temp levelled off... the rotor was able to dissipate heat at a sufficient range that "new" heat from repeated stops did not overwhelm it's capabilities.

You're looking way too far into this. You showed how the stock rotors were hotter than yours, so what? Were the stock rotors failing? No, nothing was wrong with them getting to that temperature. "Similiar" is a very vague word. Hoosiers and Sears 4 wheel $99 special are "similiar" in the fact that they're both tires. One one hundreth difference is a pads friction coefficient is noticeably different, although maybe not to you or me. And that's not a pads only determinig factor either. Also, how were you measuring the heat?
You wrote:
"I have a friend who has one of your BBK(not the wilwood, the previous one) and his fluid will boil out of the resevoir. I guess it's a poor caliper design."

That doesn't show "poor caliper design". In fact, it doesn't show anything specific at all without further examination. It could be showing bad fluid (old and full of moisture, which lowers boiling point), it could be showing that he was actually using the components to the point of heat soak, and transferring excess heat to the fluid. And, to those with suffucient experience, it's something that happens quite often in extreme use, even when all the components are in good shape.

Perhaps you forgot you wrote this:
What was shown to fail as it was taken beyond it's acceptable temperature range was the fluid; the fluid was boiled by the caliper design, specificaly the OE caliper's failure to keep the heat out of the fluid.
I said "I guess it's a poor caliper design." very sarcastically which I guess you didn't pick up on. It was my point that fluid boiling has more to do with than just a calipers design.
You wrote:
"Funny how you took so much time to run the same car, same tires, same surface, same temperature, yet a different pad. What you did is NO different from running the same car, same pads, same surface, same temperature, but different tires.

As proven above, the pads were not of any practical difference in the test.

They were not the same pads PERIOD, end discussion!

Also, something you might not be aware of, the Akebono pad material is OEM for VW, Ford (and possibly Mercedes), and has practically interchangeable characteristics to the Jurid and Textar pads that BMW/MINI uses.

You said it best yourself:
But the one thing we definitely know is that it has no bearing on this discussion as they are completely different components.

You wrote:
"Your results are absolutely USELESS because you compared them using different pads. If you're so confident in your BBK(or PBK or wtf you call it) then compare them as I've noted. But untill then, this is a false comparo.

A critically important part about understanding tests is understanding the test parameters - and specifically knowing what minor differences affect the results, and which ones do not. We've proven that your fixation on the only factor of pad brand is a non-issue.

Pads(stock especially) 100% affect the results as stock pads overheat very quickly from repeated hard stops. In fact if you're fading your brakes knowledgeable(such as racers on BF.C) peoples number one advice is changind the pads. Proven that it's a non issue? You haven't proved anything. You're jumping to your own conclusions.

I'm not changing the subject at all. I'm pointing out that of the many tests that E46Fanatics.com has had presented on linked manufacturers' websites, that I know you personally have been a member at the time (and likely have read), that I have not seen you so vigorously attack those obviously invalid tests.

Untill recently there haven't been any brake sponsors. I call it as I see it regardless of company, It's nothing personal. Hell, I've bought close to if not over $2,000 worth of UUC products.


That your misunderstanding of test parameters can be mistakenly seen by other readers of the thread as accurate is a complete disservice to those people.
Misunderstanding? If anything it seems I'm the first person to understand this by asking if the pads were indeed the same.

[Dooly]

uhh.. don't mean to burst the bubble here between you guys:argue: , but any plans for an e46 m3 kit in the near future? :shhh:

[ADA]

As much as I hate vendor bashing, I love it when people come in here and try to "sharp shoot" UUC. I love it because it allows Rob from UUC to come in here and shed his technical knowledge and silcence all of these "tree shade mechanics" with a Mechcanical/automotive engineering degree from Phoenix Online.

UUC products speak for itself. As for me, "If it isn't UUC then it doesn't belong in my car."

Rob, don't take vaio76109 post personal. If you follow his post history, he likes attacking vendors and other members on their mods and products

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

I'm gonna keep this short

So will I... I am sorry that I have failed in my effort to give you an explanation that you can understand or accept.

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

uhh.. don't mean to burst the bubble here between you guys:argue: , but any plans for an e46 m3 kit in the near future? :shhh:

Yes... in the very, very near future! Literally, just a couple of weeks.

- Rob

[russ330]

What would be the benefit of an M3 owner going with this kit? Assuming (yeah I know, that never turns out well) that Euro floating rotors are a direct swap for them, then the only "benefit" they would see is that of the new caliper, correct?

Isn't it up to the rotor to dissipate the heat and all that, the caliper is simply what grabs on to the rotor, so how much better can the Wilwood calipers be than the BMW ones? :dunno:

I'm just looking to learn, it's rare to pick up technical knowledge around here anymore. Thanks. :)

[JCz04Bimmer]

So will I... I am sorry that I have failed in my effort to give you an explanation that you can understand or accept.

- Rob

Its OK Rob, we still appreciate all the usefull information you post up here. Don't give up!

OK, so the brakes seem awesome. What I have a question about is simple. One of the neatest feature, I thought, on the previous Wilwood model offering was that the pads basically slide in from the top without having to remove anything. Is that retained in this newer caliper design?

Oh and to make a quick comment to Greg (vaio). Skeptisism is appropriate when a company's track record is either unproven or it is inconsistent. UUC, I'm sorry, is not one of those companies that fits into either category. So perhaps in the future you should be more mindful of your comments especially when they're so unfounded. You're still harping on the difference in the pads as the SOLE source of your disagreement with UUC's advertising of their new product. To use ONE point as the launching point to such long winded, insulting, and inflamatory comments is immature and damaging to ANY information that ANYONE puts forth on a modification. Not only that, to continue to be so obstinant is also immature. Rob is pretty consistent in his posts. He's not trying to sell anything. He's using information NOT about UUC's products in his replies to you, but he's rather using actual scientific understandings of what's going on. Don't be so stupid as to immediately dismiss comments made by a vendor; likewise, as Rob warned, don't be so stupid as to blindly accept them either. But I think we can all agree that Rob never asked for blind acceptance; merely informed conversing of the subject in an attempt to arrive at a common understanding independent of any product offering.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

What would be the benefit of an M3 owner going with this kit? Assuming (yeah I know, that never turns out well) that Euro floating rotors are a direct swap for them, then the only "benefit" they would see is that of the new caliper, correct?

I didn't mean to give the impression that it is the same kit!

All of the E46 M3 kit parts are different except the rear rotors... 345mm floating front rotor, standard 6-piston calipers front, different 4-piston calipers rear.

Isn't it up to the rotor to dissipate the heat and all that, the caliper is simply what grabs on to the rotor, so how much better can the Wilwood calipers be than the BMW ones?

There's a lot more to it than that. All of these factors are critical in terms of heat management, pedal feel, and track/race-use durability:

1) Pad dimensions (surface area and thickness).

2) Total piston area.

3) Caliper construction:
a) fixed or floating (in calipers, fixed is better than floating - in rotors, the opposite). Floating has more caliper "squirm" and the slider bushings are adversely affected by heat and wear. Fixed does not have any of those issues.
b) body materials used - affects weight and stiffness.
c) piston materials used - affects heat transfer to fluid.
d) body construction - affects stiffness.

4) Pad options/cost - many more track/race options for the Wilwood, all at a lower cost (thanks to volume) than BMW-fitment pads.

What this means is that the Wilwood Superlite caliper, in comparison to the OE BMW caliper (of any E46 model) will have better pedal feel and modulation, will be resistant to the heat issues that affect the OE caliper, will have greater thermal capacity, will protect the fluid better, and it will be easier/cheaper to find replacement competition pads.

I'm just looking to learn, it's rare to pick up technical knowledge around here anymore. Thanks. :)

We try to have the bulk of information pertaining to this product (and all of our products) on the website, but it's a tough call where to draw the line between the most commonly-asked questions' answers... and complete information massive overkill, which can be difficult to sort through. Nevertheless, we'll be adding to the FAQ on the website as more unanswered questions are asked.

- Rob

[russ330]

- Rob

:blink: Thanks for the explination... well the parts I understood. : :thumbup:

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

OK, so the brakes seem awesome. What I have a question about is simple. One of the neatest feature, I thought, on the previous Wilwood model offering was that the pads basically slide in from the top without having to remove anything. Is that retained in this newer caliper design?

Exactly the same concept, but even easier on the Superlite calipers.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/SUPER6RED.jpg

- Rob

[ice330ci05]

Exactly the same concept, but even easier on the Superlite calipers.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/SUPER6RED.jpg

- Rob


yeah right, thats all you have to do to put in new pads? damn thats a FAST swap... :drool: ..even the rears are like that??. cant wait till my stock brakes wear out :lmao:


well these fit 17' rims? i got the stock M68's right now but want to upgrade to lighter ones in the future.....

[vaio76109]

I am sorry that I have failed in my effort to give you an explanation that you can understand or accept.

- Rob
I understood exactly what you said :rolleyes: . It's just that... nevermind I don't even care.

Thanks for trying to insult me though :rolleyes: .

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

yeah right, thats all you have to do to put in new pads? damn thats a FAST swap... :drool: ..even the rears are like that??. cant wait till my stock brakes wear out :lmao:

That's it! Rears are the same.

well these fit 17' rims? i got the stock M68's right now but want to upgrade to lighter ones in the future.....

Yes, they will. Some OE rims may require a small spacer (as they would with most BBKs), but many aftermarket rims do not.

Fitment diagrams available on the website.

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

I understood exactly what you said :rolleyes: . It's just that... nevermind I don't even care.

Thanks for trying to insult me though :rolleyes: .

Greg, I did not mean to insult you and apologize if it was interpreted that way. I simply do not see that you are understanding the concept. There are "different" brake pads, and there are "interchangeable" brake pads. What was used in the test, and what I've been trying to explain, falls into the latter category. That's all there is to it. When people on Bf.c suggest a "different" pad to cure a braking problem (as opposed to a dust or noise problem), they are referring to a more aggressive pad.

If we had been using a radical or aggressive pad like a Hawk HP-Plus, your points would be valid. We were not.

- Rob

[JCz04Bimmer]

yeah right, thats all you have to do to put in new pads? damn thats a FAST swap... :drool: ..even the rears are like that??. cant wait till my stock brakes wear out :lmao:


well these fit 17' rims? i got the stock M68's right now but want to upgrade to lighter ones in the future.....

Is it really that fast? Because I mean wow, that right there is a huge plus. You can get a set of track pads and street pads and have them in and out in under 30 minutes! I assume you need to pull that pin and then compress the pistons but is that all there is?

[ice330ci05]

Is it really that fast? Because I mean wow, that right there is a huge plus. You can get a set of track pads and street pads and have them in and out in under 30 minutes! I assume you need to pull that pin and then compress the pistons but is that all there is?


i dunno, but it seems easy,(by looking at the pic) hehehe

[ice330ci05]

That's it! Rears are the same.



Yes, they will. Some OE rims may require a small spacer (as they would with most BBKs), but many aftermarket rims do not.

Fitment diagrams available on the website.

- Rob
nice, so where can i buy replacement pads, just from you guys(UUC) or ?? sorry i dont know too much about BBK, thanx

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Is it really that fast? Because I mean wow, that right there is a huge plus. You can get a set of track pads and street pads and have them in and out in under 30 minutes! I assume you need to pull that pin and then compress the pistons but is that all there is?

It really is that fast. This pic of the 4-piston caliper has a better top view:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/fsl_big.jpg

See that cylinder across the top? That's the bridge bolt, which serves two functions: 1) stiffens the calipers, and 2) keeps the pads in place.

Simply undo the nut at the backside of the bolt, slide the bolt out of the tube, pop the tube off the top of the caliper, and the pads come out like toast from a toaster. You can use a caliper spreader, but often you can just wiggle the pads out by hand.

That won't take 30 minutes. Including removing the wheels, you should be able to swap all four wheels' worth of pads in about 10 minutes.

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

nice, so where can i buy replacement pads, just from you guys(UUC) or ?? sorry i dont know too much about BBK, thanx

You can buy pads from us, or from any major brake pad vendor or race part supply house.

- Rob

[JCz04Bimmer]

Simply undo the nut at the backside of the bolt, slide the bolt out of the tube, pop the tube off the top of the caliper, and the pads come out like toast from a toaster. You can use a caliper spreader, but often you can just wiggle the pads out by hand.

That won't take 30 minutes. Including removing the wheels, you should be able to swap all four wheels' worth of pads in about 10 minutes.

- Rob

Honestly, that alone is enough to make me heavily consider these. Right after the lightweight flywheel & clutch :)

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Whats always intrigued me about brakes, and is something that I've frankly never been able to understand (if we're having a tech fest I might as well jump in) is how the total piston area effects the stopping distance.

Now I understand the physics behind breaks, even understand how cross drilled rotors can hurt performance significantly, what I don't understand is how adding pistons helps a caliper. I've seen plenty of twin piston OE calipers (2 pistons on one side, clamping to the other) and it applies the same amount of force to the rotor as a 4 piston would, the caliper just has to be able to slide on the pad carrier. Is the advantage of the pistons on each side the elimination of this sliding mechanism and thus less play in the caliper?

If I can lock my tires at any speed, and achieve lockup at a rather speedy rate, have SS lines (all hypothetical) and don't see much fade in my brakes, what would be the purpose of a BBK such as this one other than purely cosmetics. I've got axxis ultimate pads at the moment and will probably go to a slightly more aggressive pad on my next brake job if I don't buy a BBK. Is there any real advantage (especially considering lighter rotors helps acceleration etc. etc.) for no more than light track use?

Thanks Rob.

As for the pad thing, I see the point thats being made on each side. I don't think running the test on the same brand of pads is a bad idea. I know my OE pads didn't have near the initial bite my current pads do, on the same token, if the BBK has a weaker biting pad then it would benefit you in a retest situation. Not saying your tests are invalid, they still demonstrate a basic point - but a retest with the same pads would give more specific information.

I'm surprised noone has brought wheel design into this. I won't get too involved but what is your opinion of a bladed wheel such as the E34 M5 throwing stars, or the SLR Mclaren wheels?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Whats always intrigued me about brakes, and is something that I've frankly never been able to understand (if we're having a tech fest I might as well jump in) is how the total piston area effects the stopping distance.

Total piston area is directly related to "brake torque", basically how much "anti-rotational" force the brake can apply to the rotating assembly.

I'll repeat one very critical thing that should be used to adjust everyone's concepts of "big brakes" - you DO NOT buy them for increased stopping distances (although a properly-designed system can reduce the distance somewhat)... the reason to buy big brakes is for repeatability of successive hard braking without brake fade or overheating of the elements.

Back to the question, total piston area is a specific part of the brake torque formula. There are many factors which affect brake torque, and you can adjust the outcome by changing any of the specific factors (although there are ramifications and consequences if the changes are made imprudently). These factors include rotor diameter, pad height, effective rotor diameter (which is a sub-calculation of overall diameter and pad height), piston area, brake line pressure, brake pad coefficient of friction, and a few other contributory factors.

So let's use a hypothetical model of a typical BMW front brake system where you have a 12" rotor, typical 55mm size piston, and typical street pads. With some variability due to a few factors, the brake torque applied is about 1400lb-ft at full brake application.

If we increase that piston diameter just 5mm to 60mm, brake torque jumps to just over 1700lb-ft.

If the OE rear brake factors have not been adjusted accordingly, that increae in front brake torque results in almost 5% more front brake bias.

... what I don't understand is how adding pistons helps a caliper.

First, to explain to those reading along, OE brakes are often a single-piston floating caliper. The floating caliper design uses pistons on one side of the caliper which, when pressing against the rotor, simultaneously pull the other side of the caliper body (and the pad it holds), effectively clamping both sides.

A fixed caliper body (such as aftermarket BBKs) does not move. Pistons on either side extend, pressing the pads against the rotor and applying clamping force.

Floating calipers are much less expensive - fewer parts! In general, the single piston caliper uses an almost square pad (or roughly square segment of a pie slice shape):

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/pad_1.gif


Aftermarket multi-piston calipers usually use a longer rectangular pad:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/pad_2.gif

This type of design allows more pad surface area, even when using a smaller diameter rotor.

Finally getting to the point, more than just one piston per side (2 per side or 3 per side) performs a few functions all together:

1) Even distribution of clamping pressure across wide pad (single piston can "gimbal" if bore is worn, causing uneven pad wear).

2) More fine control brake application.


I've seen plenty of twin piston OE calipers (2 pistons on one side, clamping to the other) and it applies the same amount of force to the rotor as a 4 piston would, the caliper just has to be able to slide on the pad carrier. Is the advantage of the pistons on each side the elimination of this sliding mechanism and thus less play in the caliper?

Exactly!

If I can lock my tires at any speed, and achieve lockup at a rather speedy rate, have SS lines (all hypothetical) and don't see much fade in my brakes, what would be the purpose of a BBK such as this one other than purely cosmetics.

Your advantages:

1) Less weight.

2) Improved brake pedal feedback and fine control.

3) Greater longevity of rotors and pads.

But remember, as above, the biggest advantages are for "sporting" driving, whether track or race, and with some people street, where heat management is indeed a problem.



As for the pad thing, I see the point thats being made on each side. I don't think running the test on the same brand of pads is a bad idea. I know my OE pads didn't have near the initial bite my current pads do, on the same token, if the BBK has a weaker biting pad then it would benefit you in a retest situation.

This is the critical point: "bite" has nothing to do with it. Bite is a factor simply of modulation, of light-to-medium braking control. Once you are at full brake pressure and braking repeatedly, it's a heat maangement issue, and that is specifically what the test was showing. With two pads of similar or interchangeable coefficients of friction, the rate of heat transfer and subsequent dissipation the pad and rotor sizing, and the point of the entire test. All that identical pads would have done is silence the criticism of those not understanding the distinction.

I'm surprised noone has brought wheel design into this. I won't get too involved but what is your opinion of a bladed wheel such as the E34 M5 throwing stars, or the SLR Mclaren wheels?

That can indeed make a significant difference. I've seen the E34 M5s run at the track, same tires, same pads, and same day where the owner has tried running with and without the turbine covers (the turbine covers were the earlier and more efficient (although less attractive) cover available before the throwing star style. Without the covers, the brakes overheated noticeably sooner. Unfortunately, I think you just listed the only wheels styles ever designed specifically for enhanced brake cooling. Not many purpose-built wheels like that for the 3-series.

- Rob

[Bartacus]

Holy crap, I just learned a LOT about brakes that I didn't know before! Thanks Rob!

Bart

[zulu4]

Unfortunately, I think you just listed the only wheels styles ever designed specifically for enhanced brake cooling. Not many purpose-built wheels like that for the 3-series.

- Rob

Rob,

are the style 106 rims considered turbine rims as well? pity they have such poor clearance for larger sized calipers

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

are the style 106 rims considered turbine rims as well?

I'd say in nothing other than a cosmetic way - not functional by design. Here's an interesting thing to look at... are these wheels the same on both sides of the car (one side leaning forwards, the other side backwards), or are they side-specific? It's interesting to note many manufacturers that use a wheel with a "twist" use the same wheel on both sides, which makes the car look different depending on the side viewed.

Here's the data on the E34 M5 wheel cover specifically designed for brake cooling purposes:

http://www.bmwe34m5.com/img/pics/AVATAR/turbine.jpg

- ROb

[zulu4]

hmm, you're right, they're not side-specific.... still love the turbine look though.

[h22a1]

Any news on when the e46 m3 kit will be available?

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Thanks for the awesome explanation. I think I am finally starting to grasp all of this stuff. I wish I could fit the BBK in my stock wheels because I'd order it today, totally lost brakes to an overheat yesterday just doing some .... rather spirited street driving across town. I guess I'll just wait for the buy your own damn present sale, I should have new wheels on by then :)

Now to look for a wheel that I can clamp a fan too like those turbines :shhh:

[sublimey]

Is the brake kit ready for delivery if I order a 4 piston kit in black for a E46 325? Would really hate to wait for a long period of time, like I did with my UUC SSBC brakes.

[zulu4]

the brake kit is ready. i received mine last week. thanks rob! :clap:

haven't mounted them yet as there are a few issues i have to work out first. rob's providing me with full assistance though. excellent sponsor with great service!:thumbup:

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Any news on when the e46 m3 kit will be available?

Very soon; the holdup right now is simply a caliper component delay. Will have a better idea this week as to when Wilwood can ship us parts.


Is the brake kit ready for delivery if I order a 4 piston kit in black for a E46 325? Would really hate to wait for a long period of time, like I did with my UUC SSBC brakes.

We expect to catch up on all backorders this week for 330/325/323 kits and will be able to ship new orders after that.

- Rob

[ADA]

*cough *cough *

today is the last day before the special expires. The next special is NOT until X-Mas 2006.

[ADA]

Here is a good picture of the 4 piston caliper

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9056/wilwooduuc19xz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[russ330]

^WOW! :yikes: That caliper looks tons better than the others. I don't know if it's the color, UUC being stamped on there, or if the 4 piston is shaped differently.

Looks really good. :thumbup:

[ADA]

^WOW! :yikes: That caliper looks tons better than the others. I don't know if it's the color, UUC being stamped on there, or if the 4 piston is shaped differently.

Looks really good. :thumbup:

Russ, for once you and I finally agree on something :)

The caliper was specially made for me because Rob and I are just cool like that =) The above caliper is unqie because is painted in TiAg and I had Rob put the UUC logo on there instead of the Willwood.

Hopefully everyone should JUMP on to this board and tell Rob to start offering TiAG (or other colors) as an option. Also convince Rob about putting the UUC logo as a standard feature. the black UUC logo on a TiAg background is just pure sex

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

SPECIAL OFFER EXTENDED THROUGH 7/27/06!

[russ330]

Any chance some of us normal folk could get some ADA style calipers?

[zulu4]

Here is a good picture of the 4 piston caliper

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9056/wilwooduuc19xz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

wow, that looks good!

i requested for a UUC logo as well but i guess that wasn't an option back when mine were delivered. awesome finish on your paintwork too! :bow:

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Any chance some of us normal folk could get some ADA style calipers?

Absolutely, now that we've worked out the process.

I'll post custom-color pricing options shortly.

wow, that looks good!

i requested for a UUC logo as well but i guess that wasn't an option back when mine were delivered. awesome finish on your paintwork too! :bow:

Thanks!

The logo was the most difficult part - or more specifically, removing the original logo was difficult, and then finding a way to apply the UUC logo with the high temp requirements.

- Rob

[russ330]

^Awesome. Can't wait to see the options & pricing. This would be perfect timing since my brake pads seem to be wearing thin.

Nothing like spending $1K+ on a BBK because my old brake pads are about shot. :lmao: Damn this modding addiction. :D

[fu98]

[quote=russ330]What would be the benefit of an M3 owner going with this kit? [/quote


it looks sweeter than balls... ... duhhh.. :clap:


also.. are you using the zcp competition rotors or the euro rotors.. for the m3 application.. if so i am in love and want to order a set immediately... for the e46 m3 when available....

thanks so much for what on paper has alot of potential...

[RANE2001]

Rob,
Any news on when you will have rear 4 pots for the 8 series? i heard you were working on something or had soomething done.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

[quote=russ330]What would be the benefit of an M3 owner going with this kit?

The M3 will be getting a different kit entirely, 6-piston front as standard with a 345mm front rotor size. Rear remains the same at 328mm.

also.. are you using the zcp competition rotors or the euro rotors.. for the m3 application.. if so i am in love and want to order a set immediately... for the e46 m3 when available....

Standard Euro M3 front rotors are 325mm (and that's what we use as the floating rotor option for the standard 3-series models). Competition Package rotors are the same as the Euro CSL rotors, 345mm, and that's what our M3 kit will use.

As for pre-ordering, we have not set exact pricing yet on the M3 kits - but please send me an e-mail with your daytime phone number so we can let you know exactly when pre-ordering will be available (send to rob@shortshifter.com).


Rob,
Any news on when you will have rear 4 pots for the 8 series? i heard you were working on something or had soomething done.

Soon, probably within 4-6 weeks. We're catching up to the 5/7 series soon, and only the rear of the 8-series is unique.

- Rob

[zulu4]

The logo was the most difficult part - or more specifically, removing the original logo was difficult, and then finding a way to apply the UUC logo with the high temp requirements.

- Rob

has mike updated you on my "issues"? if you've got red calipers with the UUC calipers lying around, i wouldn't mind those instead of the wilwood logos...

i'm not from the US military, but i hope the finishing on my new set of calipers will be as good as ADA's nonetheless...n:)

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

has mike updated you on my "issues"? if you've got red calipers with the UUC calipers lying around, i wouldn't mind those instead of the wilwood logos...

We could do a "UUC" set for you - it's going to add a couple of days (otherwise your order was going to ship out today) - let me know ASAP if you can wait.

- Rob

[jacobo]

We could do a "UUC" set for you - it's going to add a couple of days (otherwise your order was going to ship out today) - let me know ASAP if you can wait.

- Rob

Rob, do you guys offer an option to get the calipers in special colors, and with the UUC logo. I've always wanted calipers in Blue (something close to my Topaz, or whatever the closest is that you guys could do) and it would look sick with a White UUC logo (over the Willwood).

If so, how much extra would it cost?

And how much for the look ADA has? Not trying to copy him, but those black/silver calipers look sick.

[fu98]

[quote=fu98]

The M3 will be getting a different kit entirely, 6-piston front as standard with a 345mm front rotor size. Rear remains the same at 328mm.



Standard Euro M3 front rotors are 325mm (and that's what we use as the floating rotor option for the standard 3-series models). Competition Package rotors are the same as the Euro CSL rotors, 345mm, and that's what our M3 kit will use.

As for pre-ordering, we have not set exact pricing yet on the M3 kits - but please send me an e-mail with your daytime phone number so we can let you know exactly when pre-ordering will be available (send to rob@shortshifter.com).




Soon, probably within 4-6 weeks. We're catching up to the 5/7 series soon, and only the rear of the 8-series is unique.

- Rob


freakin awesome... that is the exact combination i was hoping for... email sent....i believe the stock zcp rotors are a great balance between weight and performance... only the calipers sucked an ass.. but now... uuc makes the perfect uuc oem upgrade...

nicely done...

[zulu4]

We could do a "UUC" set for you - it's going to add a couple of days (otherwise your order was going to ship out today) - let me know ASAP if you can wait.

- Rob

is the UUC logo painted on or raised like on the original wilwoods?

i will wait if it means i can get a good finishing on my paint job this time,i pre-ordered in december so a few extra days won't kill me.

my primary concern is the paint finish on the calipers, especially around the hard to reach corners which are prone to cracking and peeling..... whichever "logo"-ed calipers have the current best finish, whether they say wilwood, UUC or even "Rob" :lmao: , just mail them to me. you guys have incurred enough additional expenses for me, i appreciate it and don't want to make things too difficult for you either

[fu98]

is the UUC logo painted on or raised like on the original wilwoods?

i will wait if it means i can get a good finishing on my paint job this time,i pre-ordered in december so a few extra days won't kill me.

my primary concern is the paint finish on the calipers, especially around the hard to reach corners which are prone to cracking and peeling..... whichever "logo"-ed calipers have the current best finish, whether they say wilwood, UUC or even "Rob" :lmao: , just mail them to me. you guys have incurred enough additional expenses for me, i appreciate it and don't want to make things too difficult for you either

omg.. i want the "rob" ones also... :clap:

[zulu4]

omg.. i want the "rob" ones also... :clap:

er... you know i was kidding right? please don't send me one that says ROB....

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

is the UUC logo painted on or raised like on the original wilwoods?

It's a high-temp applique material that is then covered with a high-temp clear. It's not raised like the cast-in Wilwood logo, but there is a very slight edge that you can feel with your finger. It looks flat.

i will wait if it means i can get a good finishing on my paint job this time,i pre-ordered in december so a few extra days won't kill me.

We already started on a "UUC" set for you - might ship Friday, but possibly not until next Wednesday (closed Monday and Tuesday for July 4th).

I think you'll love the new finish!

whichever "logo"-ed calipers have the current best finish, whether they say wilwood, UUC or even "Rob" :lmao:

Oh, please don't say that - we'll be getting requests for "Rob" calipers. People will start referring to them as the "RBK". I can't allow that. :lmao:

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob, do you guys offer an option to get the calipers in special colors, and with the UUC logo. I've always wanted calipers in Blue (something close to my Topaz, or whatever the closest is that you guys could do) and it would look sick with a White UUC logo (over the Willwood).

If so, how much extra would it cost?

And how much for the look ADA has? Not trying to copy him, but those black/silver calipers look sick.

We may offer the silver as a standard option - but that's not 100% determined yet.

We have worked out the details for custom colors:

1) Custom color upcharge is $300 per pair (axle kit) added to standard black price. 100% pre-payment required, non-refundable once work has begun.

2) Colors cannot be metallic / metal flake. Solid colors only. If you specify a match for a metallic color, we can come very close - but no guarantee on a perfect match - high temp finishes may be slightly different than standard automotive colors.

3) You must specify an exact paint code or provide a sample of the color.

4) Your choice of logo and logo colors; 4-piston can retain raised Wilwood logo, or any solid color flat Wilwood or UUC logo. 6-piston only has flat logo options.

5) Order fulfillment may be extended 2-3 weeks.

- Rob

[zulu4]

thanks rob!

great customer service! i'll definitely turn to you guys again for my other mods.

please take your time to get the finishing and paintwork perfect! if it ain't up to par and you need more time to refinish, just drop me an email.

i've rescheduled my BBk installation to the week after, possibly thurs or friday, to give UPS some allowance for bad weather delay.

just a suggestion: you should consider offering custom wordings for the logo.... maybe "BMW" or "Z4" or perhaps a design etc, like what whalen shift knobs offer; would help differentiate these brake kits from the others out there.

cheers and enjoy your 4th of July celebrations!

zulu4

p.s. like i told mike, please be generous with the bubble wrap when shipping the calipers over.

p.p.s. please remember that my calipers are RED, not silver like ADA's.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

just a suggestion: you should consider offering custom wordings for the logo.... maybe "BMW" or "Z4" or perhaps a design etc, like what whalen shift knobs offer; would help differentiate these brake kits from the others out there.

No thanks, we're not interested in copyright infringement.

p.p.s. please remember that my calipers are RED, not silver like ADA's.

Yep, purple, right? :lmao:

- Rob

[zulu4]

No thanks, we're not interested in copyright infringement.

- Rob

ooh, didn't think about that. :hmm:

come on folks, these are awesome brakes at a very reasonable price, get them! :thumbup:

[JCz04Bimmer]

Fully plan to. Once my rotors/pads needs replacing again I will certainly spend the $1000 on a front kit instead of $500 on regular rotors and pads and whatnot.

The silver caliper is so damn sexy.

[fu98]

Fully plan to. Once my rotors/pads needs replacing again I will certainly spend the $1000 on a front kit instead of $500 on regular rotors and pads and whatnot.

The silver caliper is so damn sexy.

i hope the silver is standard too... please please....

[jacobo]

We may offer the silver as a standard option - but that's not 100% determined yet.

We have worked out the details for custom colors:

1) Custom color upcharge is $300 per pair (axle kit) added to standard black price. 100% pre-payment required, non-refundable once work has begun.

2) Colors cannot be metallic / metal flake. Solid colors only. If you specify a match for a metallic color, we can come very close - but no guarantee on a perfect match - high temp finishes may be slightly different than standard automotive colors.

3) You must specify an exact paint code or provide a sample of the color.

4) Your choice of logo and logo colors; 4-piston can retain raised Wilwood logo, or any solid color flat Wilwood or UUC logo. 6-piston only has flat logo options.

5) Order fulfillment may be extended 2-3 weeks.

- Rob

Hmmm.........What about them saying BMW or the roundel or something like that? Is that possible? I think I might be getting to demanding, as the UUC logo does look very nice.

*Edit* Nevermind, just read the above few posts.

[LakeShow]

Rob..is there anyway to make me a 4 piston Caliper with the UUC logo (like ADA) and paint it Orient Blue? If you could, I'll be making my order on Monday for fronts and rear with Floating rotors. Let me know if the custom color is possible! TIA-Merwin

[shark328]

I'm dieing here! WHen can I get them? I don't care what color nad they can say BCH on them for all I care. I need race pads on them too.

[aaronu]

Howdy,

1. I've printed the clearance template but it's the middle of (an admittedly short) work week. You wouldn't happen to know if the Stage 2 brake kit fits under a Style 44 17" x 8", wouldja? :)

2. The site talks about being careful not to dink with brake bias with stock rear brakes. Does it make sense to upgrade the rear with better rotors & pads along with the stage 2 kit, or would that screw up the brake bias?

Thanks man.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob..is there anyway to make me a 4 piston Caliper with the UUC logo (like ADA) and paint it Orient Blue? If you could, I'll be making my order on Monday for fronts and rear with Floating rotors. Let me know if the custom color is possible! TIA-Merwin

We can definitely do Orient Blue, not a problem.

I'm dieing here! WHen can I get them? I don't care what color nad they can say BCH on them for all I care. I need race pads on them too.

Very, very soon! Should be available toward the end of July '06.


1. I've printed the clearance template but it's the middle of (an admittedly short) work week. You wouldn't happen to know if the Stage 2 brake kit fits under a Style 44 17" x 8", wouldja? :)

Can't tell you right now - we don't see many Style 44 wheels lately (seems that their tendency to bend easily has caused most of them to be replaced). I'll get ahold of one in a couple of days and do a test-fit.

2. The site talks about being careful not to dink with brake bias with stock rear brakes. Does it make sense to upgrade the rear with better rotors & pads along with the stage 2 kit, or would that screw up the brake bias?

Changing brands of rotors is nothing to be concerned about, Cf does not change with rotor brand... although you should use the same type front and rear - if you have drilled fronts, use drilled rears. Diameter is the rotor factor that affects bias.

To make sure we all understand what the website says, we're saying that the Stage2 front-only kit is designed to provide correct bias with the OE rear brakes. This assumes using a pad with a similar coefficient of friction ("Cf").

For example, if you're using an OE pad or a pad with similar characteristics (Hawk HP-S, Hawk Ceramic, Axxis, Akebono Ceramic, Satisfied, etc.), you're not changing the Cf significantly. Practically all brands of pads that fall into the "Premium Street" pad category are within .015 Cf of each other, which changes the bias less than 1%, most less than .5% - an insignificant difference, which is dwarfed by other contributing factors. The Wilwood BP-10 pads which we include with the Stage2 kit are of the same "Premium Street" category with a matching-range Cf.

If you are changing the type of pads, for example to a Hawk HP-Plus (designed for street, auto-x, and light track), then you should also use the same type in the rear.

However, this is not to say that you "must" always use the same pad type... the concept of "pad tuning" to adjust bias is quite common, particularly for track use where your particular car's suspension or tire setup, as well as the particular type of use or specific track, may warrant a non-standard bias shift. Racers will regularly run different pads with different Cf front and rear precisely for this reason.

For more details and info on brake bias and "pad tuning", please see:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/BIAS.htm

- Rob

[emayers04]

hey rob. . . this might be out of context w/ this thread but I had a quick question. I'm currently deployed to Iraq and won't be back till the fall. It doesnt' make sense for me to mail anything to my APO out here to get the 10% discount. Is there anyway I can mail it to my house, and still get the discount? I want to get the Stage 3 kit for my 2000 323i. thanks in advance.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

hey rob. . . this might be out of context w/ this thread but I had a quick question. I'm currently deployed to Iraq and won't be back till the fall. It doesnt' make sense for me to mail anything to my APO out here to get the 10% discount. Is there anyway I can mail it to my house, and still get the discount? I want to get the Stage 3 kit for my 2000 323i. thanks in advance.

Not a problem as long as you can provide some type of proof of military service. Send me a pic of you in front of a tank with a UUC sticker or something. :D

- Rob

[shark328]

sorry but I am in a pinch here.

[aaronu]

Changing brands of rotors is nothing to be concerned about, Cf does not change with rotor brand... although you should use the same type front and rear - if you have drilled fronts, use drilled rears. Diameter is the rotor factor that affects bias.

For more details and info on brake bias and "pad tuning", please see:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/BIAS.htm

- Rob

Thanks for the detailed response, Rob. So basically I should upgrade the rear pads to match whatever pads go in the front.

Hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to check the front brake fit. It seems like the worst case is that I'll need spacers with the stock rims.

Cheers,

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

sorry but I am in a pinch here.


If you can wait a week or so... I need pre-production field-install testers. :D

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Thanks for the detailed response, Rob. So basically I should upgrade the rear pads to match whatever pads go in the front.

Exactly. As we send out new rear SS lines even with the front-only kits, you're already servicing the rear brakes. Popping in new pads is no biggie.

- Rob

[bagher]

when do the M3 guys get some love?!

[aaronu]

when do the M3 guys get some love?!

Coming from a guy with a 325 -- you have an M3, that's all the love you need! :read:


Hopefully these ain't dumb questions -- I've done plenty of brakes before but I don't know much about performance brake stuff.

1. what's the advantage of the floating Motorsports rotors over the 1-piece?

2. Can the front calipers be revalved if I were to buy the fronts now and the UUC rears later? Or is that even possible (or necessary)?

Cheers,

Aaron

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

1. what's the advantage of the floating Motorsports rotors over the 1-piece?

A floating rotor seperates the rotor disk from the rotor hat (center part) in a way that allows the disk to expand with heat unhindered by a fixed center section. Theoretically, under extreme heat conditions, this will result in a disk that stays "true" and gives better performance.

2. Can the front calipers be revalved if I were to buy the fronts now and the UUC rears later? Or is that even possible (or necessary)?

Not possible. It's not a "valving" but rather the actual piston size. You can't change piston sizes in a caliper, the caliper is made to accept just a specific size.

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Guess who is getting this set? :D

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/IMG_8145.jpg

- Rob

[JCz04Bimmer]

So... so... perty...

I sent you an email yesterday.

[zulu4]

Guess who is getting this set? :D



OOH OOH,

I know... i know!!

p.s. rob, sent you another email about my rear brake lines. please acknowledge so i know you received it

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

p.s. rob, sent you another email about my rear brake lines. please acknowledge so i know you received it

Just got it, no worries - already packed and awaiting UPS. Thanks again!

- Rob

[zulu4]

Just got it, no worries - already packed and awaiting UPS. Thanks again!

- Rob

cheers for a prompt reply! can't wait to have these installed. track day in sept so look out for some track reviews as well.

[dave12345]

anyone got pics on the car?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/pics.htm

[zulu4]

anyone got pics on the car?

i'm getting mine installed in 8 hours time! it'll take at least 2 days as i'm customising some spacers to fit these gorgeous calipers within my OEM rims

stand by for pics within the next one or two days!

[zulu4]

i'm getting mine installed in 8 hours time! it'll take at least 2 days as i'm customising some spacers to fit these gorgeous calipers within my OEM rims

stand by for pics within the next one or two days!

sorry guys, no pics possible. it turns out that the template provided by rob is somehow not accurate...

just got a call from the mechanic, these brakes WILL NOT FIT with OEM rims without spacers of at least an inch, camber adjustment and having my fenders rolled. :tsk:

that's crazy! i just had new tires put on and it'll be a real stretch to get a set of rims and tires that'll fit. :ben:

bummer

[ADA]

sorry guys, no pics possible. it turns out that the template provided by rob is somehow not accurate...

just got a call from the mechanic, these brakes WILL NOT FIT with OEM rims without spacers of at least an inch, camber adjustment and having my fenders rolled. :tsk:

that's crazy! i just had new tires put on and it'll be a real stretch to get a set of rims and tires that'll fit. :ben:

bummer


nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Just drive without tires and rims. I heard all you need is your rotor and caliper anyway. The rest is just pure comestic stuff

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

sorry guys, no pics possible. it turns out that the template provided by rob is somehow not accurate...

just got a call from the mechanic, these brakes WILL NOT FIT with OEM rims without spacers of at least an inch, camber adjustment and having my fenders rolled. :tsk:

that's crazy! i just had new tires put on and it'll be a real stretch to get a set of rims and tires that'll fit. :ben:

bummer

I don't believe the templates are inaccurate at all... maybe he made a mistake with them, or used the wrong one?

4-piston:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE4_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

6-piston (has about 5mm more wheel clearance):
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE6_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

My guess is that you will not need more than a 12mm-20mm spacer. With most normal suspension setups, you will not need fender rolling, and no camber correction is required with moderate spacers.

The fitment requirements of the UUC/Wilwood brakes are similar or better than the clearances required with any other 4-piston setup such as Brembo, AP, ST, etc.

Let me know if I can help.

- Rob

[zulu4]

rob,

help would be deeply appreciated but i'm really not sure what you can do to help from where you are short of sharing the cost of new rims or sending me some that will fit without problems. i was equally shocked especially since i've spoken with you about this issue several times and the reassurance was that i would not need more than a 20mm spacer on an OEM rim.

perhaps if you're still up later tonite, you could give my mechanic a call to clarify? His name is Billy and the shop's called Juzz For Cars. i believe they distribute UUC products as well so they should not be unfamiliar to you. its 2320hr on friday night right now. they should open at 0900hr local time(9.5 hrs from now) i'll email you their contact number.

anyhow, the templates you sent me were different from the ones you just posted but i believe the measurements are essentially the same.

my suspension is the factory fitted m suspension and my rim style is style 106, also factory fitted. these are 17x8" and on 225/45/17 goodyear f1 gsd3.

[zulu4]

nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Just drive without tires and rims. I heard all you need is your rotor and caliper anyway. The rest is just pure comestic stuff

i wish that were true. i'm guttered! :( i sent my car in on thursday thinking that would be plenty of time to get the kit fitted before our local BMW club's meet-up on sunday.

[bigjae1976]

It really is that fast. This pic of the 4-piston caliper has a better top view:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/fsl_big.jpg

See that cylinder across the top? That's the bridge bolt, which serves two functions: 1) stiffens the calipers, and 2) keeps the pads in place.

Simply undo the nut at the backside of the bolt, slide the bolt out of the tube, pop the tube off the top of the caliper, and the pads come out like toast from a toaster. You can use a caliper spreader, but often you can just wiggle the pads out by hand.

That won't take 30 minutes. Including removing the wheels, you should be able to swap all four wheels' worth of pads in about 10 minutes.

- Rob

That is f'ing sweet. That's almost worth the upgrade in itself!

I know its been asked, but will the 4 piston front and rear kit fit OEM M68 wheels? 17x7 fr, 17x8 rr (I think).

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

rob,

help would be deeply appreciated but i'm really not sure what you can do to help from where you are short of sharing the cost of new rims or sending me some that will fit without problems. i was equally shocked especially since i've spoken with you about this issue several times and the reassurance was that i would not need more than a 20mm spacer on an OEM rim.

We're conversing now via private e-mail.

I just double-checked, the posted wheel fitment diagram is the same as the one I e-mailed you on 5/22/06. That diagram also showed the front-face dimensional view.

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

That is f'ing sweet. That's almost worth the upgrade in itself!

I know its been asked, but will the 4 piston front and rear kit fit OEM M68 wheels? 17x7 fr, 17x8 rr (I think).


See wheel fitment diagrams:

4-piston:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE4_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

6-piston (has about 5mm more wheel clearance):
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE6_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

The fitment diagram is spot-on:

Side view of the 4-piston front assembly:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/SIDE1.jpg

Side view of the 4-piston front assembly with fitment diagram overlaid:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/SIDE2.jpg

- Rob

[zulu4]

sure looks that way rob... i can't explain why it doesn't seem to work for me. i've gone and measured my template and the figures given by you and the actual measurements all match up nicely.

regardless, this still doesn't solve my problem. which is that the kit can't fit within my OEM rims, even with 20mm spacers. this was determined not with the template, but by actually fitting the rotors and calipers on and then test fitting the rims over.

do you have access to a Z4 to try it yourself?

oh yeah, and some knuckle thingy had to be machined to fit your caliper holders. could that be the reason why your kit doesn't fit as advertised?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

regardless, this still doesn't solve my problem. which is that the kit can't fit within my OEM rims, even with 20mm spacers. this was determined not with the template, but by actually fitting the rotors and calipers on and then test fitting the rims over.

Has your shop done a precise evaluation to determine that you need 20mm? I would still be really surprised if you could not use 20mm.

do you have access to a Z4 to try it yourself?

Unfortunately, not at this moment... and not with the OE rims that you have.

oh yeah, and some knuckle thingy had to be machined to fit your caliper holders. could that be the reason why your kit doesn't fit as advertised?

That's totally normal and is covered in the installation guide. There's a small bit of extra non-structural casting flash on one of the spindle points that is ground off for bracket clearance. If that were not done properly, your shop would not have been able to mount up the brakes. Actually, that's a good question - did they actually mount up the brakes in the final position?

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

One other thought... technically, we can use the 6-piston on the front of your car IF we run a 1-step more aggressive rear pad to tune the brake bias. The 6-piston would give you another 5 or 6mm of clearance. Download the 6-piston diagram to check against your wheels.

- Rob

[zulu4]

Has your shop done a precise evaluation to determine that you need 20mm? I would still be really surprised if you could not use 20mm.



Unfortunately, not at this moment... and not with the OE rims that you have.



That's totally normal and is covered in the installation guide. There's a small bit of extra non-structural casting flash on one of the spindle points that is ground off for bracket clearance. If that were not done properly, your shop would not have been able to mount up the brakes. Actually, that's a good question - did they actually mount up the brakes in the final position?

- Rob

rob,

yes, the brakes are up on one side already. as for the technical details of what they have or have not done, i think it might be best if you did me a favour and call them to chat?

i mean, the whole reason i bought this kit was because i thought it was a simple bolt on... so clearly, i'm not big on these nitty gritty tech stuff.

the shop tried 18" oem M3 rims as well and said that 20mm were needed for those. the first time billy spoke to me about this issue, he said that even 30mm spacers would not clear these spacers and even if they did they would stick out too far. you saw the pic i sent you right?

again, do me a big favour and call them later please?

cheers

[zulu4]

here they are!

rob didn't call my mechanic so we had to figure it out ourselves. spent lots of time running around looking for rims that wouldn't tip me beyond budget and all.

in any case, only certain OEM rims can clear these kits and the style 106 i had was certainly not one of them, EVEN with 20mm spacers.

some issues my mechanic highlighted to me:

1) the UUC calipers are positioned differently from stock or stoptechs/brembos. they are mounted higher and tilted at an angle. not sure what the advantages of doing so are, but aesthetically, still acceptable to me although some of my mates didn't quite like it.

2) the calipers and pads do not cover the entire surface of the rotors. look at the pics and you'll know what i mean. i'm a little concerned about this. will the eventual uneven wear somehow weaken the rotors and make them more prone to cracking?

3) no installation instructions came with the kit, no biggie i suppose, any competent mechanic should know what to do but instructions would certainly reduce any ambiguity

4) instructions on how to bed in the kit would be nice too.

cheers

p.s. track reviews to follow in september.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

here they are!

rob didn't call my mechanic so we had to figure it out ourselves.

Sorry - with the 12 hour difference, I was on a trip and my cell can't call Singapore.

1) the UUC calipers are positioned differently from stock or stoptechs/brembos. they are mounted higher and tilted at an angle. not sure what the advantages of doing so are, but aesthetically, still acceptable to me although some of my mates didn't quite like it.

With 13" brake kits on the 3-series and Z-series cars, the larger caliper design often prohibits mounting the caliper in the exact same position as the OE caliper... the OE mounting lugs interfere with the caliper body. So the designer has to choose mounting the caliper a few degrees to the left or right to clear the lugs. Effectively, this means the new caliper is higher or lower than the old one. The difference is inconsequential. Higher (our design) keeps the caliper further away from ground level debris and from the steering knuckle.

2) the calipers and pads do not cover the entire surface of the rotors.

They're not supposed to. The brake torque calculations are based on very specific swept radius/pad height and total diameter dimensions. Durability is actually enhanced as you have a greater "heat sink" area.

The rotors ship with a black high-temp coating so only the actual swept area shows as silver. Looking at your pics, did someone use some solvent to remove it from the rotor disk?

3) no installation instructions came with the kit, no biggie i suppose, any competent mechanic should know what to do but instructions would certainly reduce any ambiguity

4) instructions on how to bed in the kit would be nice too.

Complete installation and pad bedding directions should have been in the package! They can also be downloaded from the website:

www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/SUPERLITE_325_FRONT_3er.pdf

p.s. track reviews to follow in september.

Looking forward to it!

- Rob

[bigjae1976]

Looks great! Maybe he couldn't call because your in Singapore:dunno:

[zulu4]

rob,

not sure what they did to my rotors but yes, they had the high temp coating when i received them. should i get them to repaint the areas? *edit* just read your installation guide, which i didn't get in the box, didn't say anything about the coating either.

also, are there options for replacement rotors with a larger hat and narrower disc? wouldn't this shave even more weight off the kit without compromising your brake torque calculations?

bigjae1976,

this is the 21st century. if i can call rob, i'm sure he can call me too.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

not sure what they did to my rotors but yes, they had the high temp coating when i received them. should i get them to repaint the areas?

I would recommend it, at least for cosmetic reasons. They can do a quickie job with high-temp caliper paint or even barbecue paint. It's okay to get a little into the swept area, it will wear off right away.

also, are there options for replacement rotors with a larger hat and narrower disc? wouldn't this shave even more weight off the kit without compromising your brake torque calculations?

It could be done, but would not save anything. The Motorsport rotor you have already has an aluminum center and a space between the hat and the iron disk. A custom-built bolt-together setup would likely weigh about the same as the material would be continuous, and I have not seen a better floating mechanism that what BMW Motorsport designed into this rotor.

this is the 21st century. if i can call rob, i'm sure he can call me too.

US cell phones have to be set for overseas capability... mine is not, and I was not near a land-line during the hours your shop was open. Sorry!

- Rob

[ADA]

Rob,

As per your instruction you said something about rearward caliper uppoer mounting lug must be "grounded off." Do you mean that I have to dremel/cut the portion in my attached picture (blue circle)

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob,

As per your instruction you said something about rearward caliper uppoer mounting lug must be "grounded off." Do you mean that I am to dremel/cut the portion in my attached picture (blue circle)

Yes, that one.

[bigjae1976]

See wheel fitment diagrams:

4-piston:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE4_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

6-piston (has about 5mm more wheel clearance):
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE6_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

- Rob

Maybe I'm retarded but I'm not sure what I'm reading or looking at. So the inner diameter is 13" for the 4 piston model?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Maybe I'm retarded but I'm not sure what I'm reading or looking at. So the inner diameter is 13" for the 4 piston model?

You're looking at a profile view of the rotor and caliper assembly with one side of the rotor half cut off to make printing easier.

In the middle, you can see the profile of the rotor hub that fits into your wheel.

- Rob

[bigjae1976]

You're looking at a profile view of the rotor and caliper assembly with one side of the rotor half cut off to make printing easier.

In the middle, you can see the profile of the rotor hub that fits into your wheel.

- Rob

So the brake rotor and caliper have a total diameter of 16"? So if my rim has an inner diameter greater than 16", the rims should work with the BBK?

Again, sorry for the stupid questions.:eek:

:)

[vaio76109]

So the brake rotor and caliper have a total diameter of 16"? So if my rim has an inner diameter greater than 16", the rims should work with the BBK?

Again, sorry for the stupid questions.:eek:

:)
Not necessarily, you wheel offset might not work with them. You'll have to take off one of your front rims to make sure.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

So the brake rotor and caliper have a total diameter of 16"? So if my rim has an inner diameter greater than 16", the rims should work with the BBK?

Again, sorry for the stupid questions.:eek:

:)


No... the 8" ruler there is for scale so you can make sure you printed the diagram to life-size (1:1) scale. The 8" scale does not start at the centerline of the assembly, that's the dotted line.

Don't know if you saw these pics in a previous post...

Side view of the caliper and rotor, easy enough to recognize:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/SIDE1.jpg

Now you can see how the fitment diagram matches:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/SIDE2.jpg

Don't make any assumptions about fitment; print out the diagram life-size, glue it to a piece of cardboard, cut it out and fit it within your wheel. It's a profile view so you can tell if it hits the wheel spoke or barrel.

- Rob

[bigjae1976]

Ahhhh, I get it now. Thanks for the explantion. I want to get the 4 wheel kit next year but I would like to still have the option of using my 17" M68s.

[zeshon]

ignore this post

[zulu4]

update: it seems like i now have some rubbing issues when my wheels are turned close to, but not at, full lock in either direction.

this rubbing is not against my fenders but the inner side of my rims/tires rubbing against my shocks. does the BBK alter the wheel hub in anyway such that my rims sit more inside now?

my new rims are style 89, 17x8 with offset +47, shod with goodyear F1 225/45/17. this is of the exact same spec as my style 106 rims with the same set of tires. never had any rubbing issues then...

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

update: it seems like i now have some rubbing issues when my wheels are turned close to, but not at, full lock in either direction.

this rubbing is not against my fenders but the inner side of my rims/tires rubbing against my shocks. does the BBK alter the wheel hub in anyway such that my rims sit more inside now?

The BBK does not alter the hub in any way whatsoever. The rotor hat thickness is OE-spec, so the wheel position is unchanged compared to original.

Are these brand-new tires, and a different brand/model than you had before? It's very common for tires to be a different size than their rating - all 225s are not 225mm thick, they can vary from 215 to 235. Goodyears are typically "thick" and have a square shoulder.

BMW tolerances for clearance between tire and strut or fender liner are extremely tight - on some models, we see "right size" tires not properly fit quite often. The tolerances are so close that a miniscule 3mm spacer may be all you need to alleviate the problem.

- Rob

[zulu4]

it was the same tire, transfered over to my new rims. didn't give me problems before, even when i took the car to the track.

something's amiss.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

it was the same tire, transfered over to my new rims. didn't give me problems before, even when i took the car to the track.

something's amiss.

Doesn't make sense.

The only thing that affects tire clearance is wheel offset. Wheel offset is unaffected by the BBK install - the rotor hat is the only part in the "stack" of components (hub, bearing face, rotor hat, wheel) that affects tire position. BMW rotors do vary hat thickness between models, but even so the maximum difference across the entire range is barely 3mm... and comparing the E46 M3 rotor to the Z4 rotor, the difference is negligible.

Were there any camber or alignment changes made?

I am also trying to compare the actual specs of the wheels in question. The Style 106 comes up as a 17x8 et47 for the Z4. For some reason, I cannot find the Style 89 in the ETK or realoem.com... do you have the BMW part number for the wheel you have?

- Rob

[zulu4]

no camber nor alignment changes were made.

i don't have part numbers for this set of rims right now but i've seen it hanging off the wall at the dealers and i recall that it was 17x8 offset +47.

so are you saying it could well be the difference in rotor hat thickness?? like you said, tolerances are so tight that all that is needed for rubbing to occur is a variation of a few mm...

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

so are you saying it could well be the difference in rotor hat thickness?? like you said, tolerances are so tight that all that is needed for rubbing to occur is a variation of a few mm...

No, I'm saying that the difference (if any) should not be causing this problem.

But what I am saying is that adding a few mm of offset with a small spacer will move the tire away from the shock. Clearly, your wheel is too far inboard. Adding a small spacer will be a corrective action to put the wheel where it is supposed to be, regardless of the brakes.

- Rob

[zulu4]

but then my question would now be: why is my wheel too far inboard?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

but then my question would now be: why is my wheel too far inboard?

Not sure... is there a chance that wheel is 8.5" instead of 8"? No matter what, too far inboard is more easily correctable than too far outboard!

- Rob

[zulu4]

Not sure... is there a chance that wheel is 8.5" instead of 8"? No matter what, too far inboard is more easily correctable than too far outboard!

- Rob

think they're 8" rob but i'll get it triple-checked when i'm at the shop. i'm sure the problem is easily correctable, but it seems like this kit's giving me one issue after another, requiring one expense after another. not really what i bargained for.:tsk:

why should i go out and pay for 3mm spacers if thicker rotor hats would have solved this issue to begin with? i mean: everything else, alignment, camber, rest of the suspension set up, rim size, even the tires have remained unchanged... that kinda leaves the brake kit as the most probable cause doesn't it?

besides, the whole point of getting these new 17x8" rims with a thinner spoke design, was to stay within OEM spec and yet fit your brakes without the use of spacers to avoid any rubbing issues.

and now i once again need spacers so i'm back at square one ain't i?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

The rotor hats are not supposed to be thicker - please re-read what I wrote earlier, the hats are the correct thickness, just like the OE hats. And still, the wheel fitment diagram is dead-on accurate.

In all fairness, the "issues" have nothing to do with the kit... First, we had a damage in shipping. Second, somebody at your shop mis-read the wheel fitment diagram. What's going on now is just plain weird, and possibly something odd with those wheels... but easily fixed no matter what.

The UUC/Wilwood brake kits are working great - in fact, at the Summit Point BMW CCA Club Race on 8/5 and 8/6, the 1st place and 3rd place IP class (the class that E36 M3s dominate) were both using our brakes. :D

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Sorry, missed this part:

and now i once again need spacers so i'm back at square one aren't i?

No, this is the whole point. Your original wheels had insufficient space behind the thick spokes. The new wheels have thinner spokes and are supposed to be the right offset - but obviously they are not. I'm saying that even if you put your OE brakes back on, you would likely have the exact same problem. The brakes themselves are not part of the equation, they are not changing the offset of the wheels! I think we're going to find the wheels you have are the wrong offset or width.

- Rob

[fu98]

Sorry, missed this part:



No, this is the whole point. Your original wheels had insufficient space behind the thick spokes. The new wheels have thinner spokes and are supposed to be the right offset - but obviously they are not. I'm saying that even if you put your OE brakes back on, you would likely have the exact same problem. The brakes themselves are not part of the equation, they are not changing the offset of the wheels! I think we're going to find the wheels you have are the wrong offset or width.

- Rob
<TABLE borderColor=#ffffff height=386 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=0>*******><TR><TD class=text vAlign=center align=middle height=32>2001-2005</TD><TD class=text vAlign=center align=left height=32>E46 M3 - coming soon!</TD></TR>********></TABLE>


:rolleyes:

:read: it even said in euro tuner they were available for the e46 m3.. cmon guys what is up...

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

:rolleyes:

:read: it even said in euro tuner they were available for the e46 m3.. cmon guys what is up...

Ad deadlines are six months before publication. We fully expected to have E46 M3 completed and ready to ship by the time the ad was released. Unfortunately, minor delays caused us to miss that deadline.

The reality is that E46 M3 is 99.99% done (a few customers have already received pre-production kits). We're just about to start regular production, but that can still put us off another two weeks as part of the bracket manufacturing time includes material heat-treating which adds several days.

- Rob

[VenomX2]

Email sent.

[bigjae1976]

Question, what is the advantage of the 6 piston over the 4 piston besides the pimp factor of the 6 piston being larger?

[ADA]

Question, what is the advantage of the 6 piston over the 4 piston besides the pimp factor of the 6 piston being larger?


lower profile = better wheel clearance?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Question, what is the advantage of the 6 piston over the 4 piston besides the pimp factor of the 6 piston being larger?

Time for a technical clarification: the 6-piston is not bigger than the 4-piston (four-wheel kit version).

Discussing just the calipers used on the 4-wheel kit, the 6-piston and 4-piston have the same "hydraulic footprint" - total piston area is the same... 6-piston uses smaller pistons, but more of them. This means they perform the same in terms of brake torque. They also use the same pad profile. This means no difference in performance whatsoever.

The useful advantage to the 6-piston is that it's a special "narrow body" design; it gives about 8mm more wheel clearance than the 4-piston.

Pimp factor value varies from person to person. :D

- Rob

[whodo]

Rob

I just happened to come across this thread. Most interesting to me is the weight reduction. To lose 26 lbs of unsprung weight is not insignificant. To be honest, I really don't care too much what they look like if I can reduce that much weight, extend brake usefulness and make changing pads easier.

My question then to you is what is the weight reduction if I go with the 4-wheel brake kit? If I can save another 26 lbs I might as well swap out the rears while I'm at it.

Thanks,

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rear weight loss is less; OE rear calipers and carriers are smaller and therefore lighter. There definitely is still a weight loss, just not as dramatic as the front.

- Rob

[whodo]

Do you have an idea of how much of a reduction for an '03 330i?

Thanks again

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Do you have an idea of how much of a reduction for an '03 330i?

For the rears, I can't tell you exactly at this moment, but I believe the difference is 7-10lbs.

- Rob

[whodo]

Close enough

thanks

[fu98]

Rob

I just happened to come across this thread. Most interesting to me is the weight reduction. To lose 26 lbs of unsprung weight is not insignificant. To be honest, I really don't care too much what they look like if I can reduce that much weight, extend brake usefulness and make changing pads easier.

My question then to you is what is the weight reduction if I go with the 4-wheel brake kit? If I can save another 26 lbs I might as well swap out the rears while I'm at it.

Thanks,

that is significant... more reasons to keep waiting for this bbk...:bow:

[fu98]

still waiting...

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

still waiting...

Prototyping and testing is done! Beginning production in the next few days.

- Rob

[JC7727]

Is there still a sale going on for the stage 3, 4 pistion kit for a 330.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Is there still a sale going on for the stage 3, 4 pistion kit for a 330.

Yes - we've extended the offer due to delays on some fitments. Coupon code SL100 still saves you $100.

Available now:

E46 330/328/325/323 Stage 2 front-only

E46 330/328/325/323 Stage 3 4-wheel kit

NEW! E46 330 ONLY - Stage 2 "Rear Add-On" 4-piston for 330 owners that have Stage 2 Front kit. Retains perfect front/rear bias. Starting at $1099 (SL100 discount available).

NEW! E46 330 ONLY - Stage 2 Front-only kit available in 6-piston variant. Retains perfect front/rear bias eith 330 original rear brakes. Starting at $1399 (SL100 discount available).

- Rob

[JC7727]

Hey Rob,

NEW! E46 330 ONLY - Stage 2 Front-only kit available in 6-piston variant. Retains perfect front/rear bias eith 330 original rear brakes. Starting at $1399 (SL100 discount available).

With the 6 piston front breaks, since they are matched to the OEM rear's we wouldn't be able to upgrage the rears at a latter date?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Hey Rob,

NEW! E46 330 ONLY - Stage 2 Front-only kit available in 6-piston variant. Retains perfect front/rear bias eith 330 original rear brakes. Starting at $1399 (SL100 discount available).

With the 6 piston front breaks, since they are matched to the OEM rear's we wouldn't be able to upgrage the rears at a latter date?

With a 330, you can upgrade later - that's the good news!

The UUC/Wilwood brakes on the 330 are unique, not the same as the kit we fit to any other E46 model; we have the ability to offer 330 owners a 4-piston or a 6-piston front-only kit that are both bias-matched to the OE rears.

Because of the unique 330 setup, we have the rear add-on kit if you would like to add it later.

- Rob

[fu98]

Prototyping and testing is done! Beginning production in the next few days.

- Rob

kool

[amunoz27e]

Rob what is the shipping cost to an APO AE address?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob what is the shipping cost to an APO AE address?

Please e-mail the exact address to me - rob@shortshifter.com - and I will get an exact quote for you. Please let me know if you want the Front-only kit or the 4-wheel kit.

- Rob

[SlowBM]

I'm interested in your 6-pot kit. Is it possible to have the "UUC MotorWerks" logo printed instead of the "Wilwood" logo on a 6-pot? So far, posted pics only shows a 4-pot (i'm guessing here).

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

I'm interested in your 6-pot kit. Is it possible to have the "UUC MotorWerks" logo printed instead of the "Wilwood" logo on a 6-pot? So far, posted pics only shows a 4-pot (i'm guessing here).

No problem, we've done that already. Please specify when ordering and we will build your kit that way.

- Rob

[SlowBM]

Do you have any pictures of the 6-pot caliper with the "UUC Motorwerks" logo that you can post?

Any reviews from people who have both these?

No problem, we've done that already. Please specify when ordering and we will build your kit that way.

- Rob

[SlowBM]

Rob, any pics of the 6-potter?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

This is a 6-piston set we did in a custom anthracite color:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/6_anth.jpg

- Rob

[SlowBM]

Thanks Rob. Those look great!! What other custom colors do you offer apart from the standard black and red? BTW, why only "UUC" and not the full "UUC Motorwerks" for the logo?

[bagher]

E46 M3 application yet?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Thanks Rob. Those look great!! What other custom colors do you offer apart from the standard black and red?

We really can do almost any color. Custom colors add $300 per front or rear kit.


BTW, why only "UUC" and not the full "UUC Motorwerks" for the logo?

Customer's request.

- Rob

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

E46 M3 application yet?

Already on the website and shipping! Uses the 345mm front floating / drilled rotors from the M3 CSL and rear rear 328mm floating / drilled rotors also from the M3 CSL.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/fitments_E46_M3.htm

Front:


http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/6piston_BNSL6.jpg


Rear:


http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/DYNA_FLOATING_REAR_600.jpg

[bagher]

what size rotors are they? Can you get just the caliper to fit over CSL rotors?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

what size rotors are they? Can you get just the caliper to fit over CSL rotors?

345mm front, 328mm rear. We only sell the kits "complete" to make sure you have the right parts.

- Rob

[vaio76109]

Why is the whole rotor black?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Why is the whole rotor black?

That's an anti-corrosion coating for cosmetic purposes; the black wears off in the swept area that the pad contacts. With this coating, all of the areas not contacted by the pad (hat and inner ring) do not get rusty. Take a look at the rotors on most cars, there is the unappealing rust at the center of the rotor.

In use, the swept area wears down to silver and looks completely normal:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/denham/DSC00884.jpg

- Rob

[vaio76109]

I know that, my question was why is the whole rotor black, and not just the center. Seems like the paint might gum up the brake pads temporarily.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

I know that, my question was why is the whole rotor black, and not just the center. Seems like the paint might gum up the brake pads temporarily.

Not at all. You will notice similar anti-corrosive coating on certain genuine BMW rotors and various types of plating on better aftermarket rotors. Sometimes these platings are black, gold, or silver.

All BMW rotors as used in the E90 3-series and E60 5-series now feature a similar coating, but in silver/gray instead of black.

- Rob

[SlowBM]

Thanks.

A buddy of mine has the coating on the caliper peeling off at the part where the central bolt goes in on his 4-piston brake kit. Is this normal? Would a particular color be less prone to peeling?

How do one tell the difference between paint and powder coat?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Thanks.

A buddy of mine has the coating on the caliper peeling off at the part where the central bolt goes in on his 4-piston brake kit. Is this normal? Would a particular color be less prone to peeling?

Any finish can be damaged by a variety of causes... whether it was a nick from a tool or chemical damage from a wheel cleaner, or even a defective finish application is hard to say without examining the part.

The most durable finish is anodizing, the way the basic black Wilwood calipers are finished. This anodizing cannot peel as the basic metal of the caliper is impregnated with this process. Of course, it is still possible to scratch or damage the finish with an acidic wheel cleaner.

How do one tell the difference between paint and powder coat?

Can't really tell visually. Powdercoat red will often turn brown under hard use... next time you see a Mitsubishi Evo VIII, check out the calipers - the are delivered as red, but turn brown permanently after getting very hot.

- Rob

[bigjae1976]

So the red calipers are powdercoated?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

So the red calipers are powdercoated?

No. We use a high-temp paint that stays red even with race race.

- Rob

[WhIte///D3MON]

pm me prices and setups that will clear for 04 m3, with 19' iforged daytonas, 8 front 10 rear/ 3 and 5 inch lips

in other words what are my options?

Thanks

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

pm me prices and setups that will clear for 04 m3, with 19' iforged daytonas, 8 front 10 rear/ 3 and 5 inch lips

in other words what are my options?

Thanks

...


Already on the website and shipping! Uses the 345mm front floating / drilled rotors from the M3 CSL and rear rear 328mm floating / drilled rotors also from the M3 CSL.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/fitments_E46_M3.htm

[W1ZK1D]

Thanks Rob, Arjun and Steve for the cust. service, install and pickup from Somerville station.

This brake kit is everything you said it would be. Also, it's hard to believe how much difference the Rasp-X made- it really eliminated that annoying high pitch rasp, even more than I thought it would. Please let me know when your new M3 exhaust is ready.

You guys did an outstanding job in every aspect of this process. Thanks again.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Thanks Rob, Arjun and Steve for the cust. service, install and pickup from Somerville station.

This brake kit is everything you said it would be. Also, it's hard to believe how much difference the Rasp-X made- it really eliminated that annoying high pitch rasp, even more than I thought it would. Please let me know when your new M3 exhaust is ready.

You guys did an outstanding job in every aspect of this process. Thanks again.

Too bad it was raining the entire time your car was here... meant to get it washed for you!

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/PBC/images/E46M3_SIDE_700.JPG

- Rob

[W1ZK1D]

Too bad it was raining the entire time your car was here... meant to get it washed for you!

- Rob

No worries-- got 3M Tint installed on the same day after pickup from your shop and they washed it for me. The ride to tint shop was extremely pleasing to say the least. Be sure to tell the guys I said thanks again!

+_+_+_ Waiting for UUC NextGen M3 Exhaust...

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

+_+_+_ Waiting for UUC NextGen M3 Exhaust...

Got something very interesting to talk to you about... please call me when you get a chance!

- Rob

[hiatus1111]

hey bro pm syour email so we can talk about this brake kit
thanks
daniel

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

hey bro pm syour email so we can talk about this brake kit
thanks
daniel

Got nothing... as the sig says, please use my real e-mail: rob@shortshifter.com

- Rob

[deafboy]

you have an e-mail :)

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

you have an e-mail :)

Got it!

You were askng about pricing details for your 323. Our website always contains all pricing options and details on our products. Here's the page specfically for non-M E46 models:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/fitments_E36_E46_328_325_323_318.htm

- Rob

[BayerischeMW]

i've sent numerous mails to your shortshifter address Rob, but i have not gotten a reply. i'm inquiring about shipping to Norway on a set of swaybars for a non-M.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

i've sent numerous mails to your shortshifter address Rob, but i have not gotten a reply. i'm inquiring about shipping to Norway on a set of swaybars for a non-M.

Hmmm... thought I replied to you already. Sent again.

- Rob

[BayerischeMW]

thanks Rob, i got it this time :)

[hiatus1111]

sent you a email!
daniel

[emayers04]

Rob,

I noticed on the e46 M3 kit it has the black coating on the rotors to prevent rust. Do the Non-M's have that same coating to prevent rust?

[Kuroi///M3ZCP]

OH man!!! I want a set of Stage 3 !!! to replace my ZCP/CSL brakes.
Anyone interested?!

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob,

I noticed on the e46 M3 kit it has the black coating on the rotors to prevent rust. Do the Non-M's have that same coating to prevent rust?

Sorry for the delay, just saw this reply.

Yes, all the rotors for 3-series come with the black anti-corrosive coating. It wears off in the pad swept area but remains black in the unswept center area.

- Rob

[woolly]

would these clear 17" rims like the M68?

[ice330ci05]

would these clear 17" rims like the M68?

also interested if they can clear the M68 :)

[NYSpeedRacer]

Will these clear 19" Hartge Classics and stock 17"s on a 330?

[Limited_Slip]

hey....does this BBK have the slot for the brake sensor. I heard most BBK doesn't have any place for you to mount the brake sensor. Therefore, your computer will always trip a "brake error code."

[fu98]

hey....does this BBK have the slot for the brake sensor. I heard most BBK doesn't have any place for you to mount the brake sensor. Therefore, your computer will always trip a "brake error code."
hey good question...

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

hey....does this BBK have the slot for the brake sensor. I heard most BBK doesn't have any place for you to mount the brake sensor. Therefore, your computer will always trip a "brake error code."

No brake sensor slot, although you could machine one into the pad.

You do NOT get a brake pad warning light. You leave the sensor in place, just zip-tie the end to the strut housing.

- Rob

[Limited_Slip]

I am confuse with all the pictures I saw.

What does the brake looks like in terms of orientation.

Is the rear caliper at the upper rear corner of the rotor and the front at the rear center of the rotor (basically OEM setup)?

I saw a picture where the front is at an angle where the rear is center. I am confuse.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

I am confused with all the pictures I saw.

What does the brake looks like in terms of orientation.

Is the rear caliper at the upper rear corner of the rotor and the front at the rear center of the rotor (basically OEM setup)?

I saw a picture where the front is at an angle where the rear is center. I am confuse.

They are in a similar orientation to your original calipers, off approximately 5 degrees. Slightly different position between regular 3-series and M3.

Standard 3-series (330/328/325/323):
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/images/E46_323_FRONT.jpg

[Limited_Slip]

UUC, I saw an E46 today (either a 323i or a 325i. can't tell) with a willwood
BBK. I think the BBK is either UUC (not 100% sure).

The rear caliper craddle the rear caliper between (3'o clock and 5 o'clock posistion). Is your UUC BBK similiar in terms of caliper orientation.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

UUC, I saw an E46 today (either a 323i or a 325i. can't tell) with a willwood
BBK. I think the BBK is either UUC (not 100% sure).

The rear caliper craddle the rear caliper between (3'o clock and 5 o'clock posistion). Is your UUC BBK similiar in terms of caliper orientation.

Obviously you mean on the driver's side. Passenger side is flipped.

Depends which version...

M3 has one position. Due to rear hub differences, standard E46 3-series has another position. As I wrote earlier, they are a couple of degrees different than the OE brakes.

We've also been shipping an alternate lightweight rear setup (developed for racers, suitable for street use) that positions the caliper in the exact same position as the original BMW caliper. It is not on the website yet, but will be soon.

- Rob

[ice330ci05]

anyone know if this will fit a M68 rim?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

anyone know if this will fit a M68 rim?

Try out the fitment diagrams...

4-piston:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE4_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

6-piston:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUPERLITE6_1_1_TEMPL.pdf

- Rob

[DeliciousVinyl]

Rob, how would you compare these new wilwood bbk's to your older ssbc bbk's? I saw something about slotted vs. drilled. Which one is better?

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Rob, how would you compare these new wilwood bbk's to your older ssbc bbk's? I saw something about slotted vs. drilled. Which one is better?

Sorry for the delayed reply, just got back from the Rolex 24 at Daytona.

Significant advantages with the Wilwood components:

1) Much greater pad availability... you can get literally any track pad material you want for Wilwood and even take advantage of Wilwood's own fantastic line of pads (manufactured by Raybestos). Interestingly enough, Wilwood is the only company I have found that provides specific coefficient of friction graphs for all of their compounds, which makes usage selections and "pad tuning" the bias so much easier. To see this info, please review this page:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/BIAS.htm

2) Lighter weight and stronger calipers. Wilwood's forging process results in an extremely rigid caliper body, which in turn allows lighter construction. The Wilwood calipers are approximately 2-4lbs less. We're seeing virtually no pad taper whatsoever, even under race use, which is a testament to the caliper's resistance to deformation.

3) Better rotor availability; we designed the Wilwood-based kits around you, the end-user, taking into consideration what your ongoing normal maintenance would require in terms of parts availability and cost. By using larger alternate BMW rotors, the replacement rotors are available at any BMW dealer or BMW parts reseller. Additionally, for many applicaitons, this OE parts use gives you the option of economical 1-piece rotors or more exotic true floating rotors. With SSBC, the only option for some kits was a custom 1-piece (available only from SSBC), and other kits had the option of a 2-piece (not floating).

4) More affordable / better value! Always a good thing, of course! Because UUC manufacturers all components of this kit except the Wilwood calipers and pads, we can offer significant cost savings compared to a 2-tier reseller price.

For comparison:

E46 330/328/325/323
UUC/Wilwood front kit with 1-piece rotors: $999
SSBC front kit with 1-piece rotors: $1650

E46 M3
UUC/Wilwood 4-wheel kit with front and rear floating rotors and 6-piston front calipers: $3750
SSBC 4-wheel kit with 2-pc front and 1-pc rear rotors and 4-piston front calipers: $3750

5) Specific application-matched fitments. We offer literally five different configurations of caliper piston size/rotor size depending on exactly which E46 model you have. This ensures optimized bias and pedal feel for each model.

6) Easier wheel fitment. Depending on kit used, the UUC/Wilwood setup offers about 5mm - 11mm more wheel clearance.

7) Greater pad lifespan; The Wilwood pads are either .650" (16mm) or .800" (20mm) thick. The pads used by SSBC are .560 (14mm) thick.

8) In stock! No more inventory control or availability issues.

There are many other factors having to do with race-specific use and other technical aspects that caused us to make the switch, overall letting us offer an even better product.

- Rob

[Limited_Slip]

UUC,

Hello. I need your help. I have no one to run to. I bought a pair of your use willwood BBK. I am running into a very strange problem. What do you think the problem is?



"I have a very strange problem. I installed a complete set of BBK. Everything works. However, there is a very strange problem.

When the car is traveling straight there is no rubbing between my wheel's spoke and the caliper itself. However, when I go over bump or turn at a very sharp angle my front passenger caliper will rub/scratch. the driver side is perfect. no rubbing. Only my front passenger is rubbing. It doesn't rub at while the car is going straight at any speed. It only rubs when I hit a big deep/bump or turn extremely sharp.

Please explain."

P.S. I have free floating rotors.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

UUC,

Hello. I need your help. I have no one to run to. I bought a pair of your use willwood BBK. I am running into a very strange problem. What do you think the problem is?



"I have a very strange problem. I installed a complete set of BBK. Everything works. However, there is a very strange problem.

When the car is traveling straight there is no rubbing between my wheel's spoke and the caliper itself. However, when I go over bump or turn at a very sharp angle my front passenger caliper will rub/scratch. the driver side is perfect. no rubbing. Only my front passenger is rubbing. It doesn't rub at while the car is going straight at any speed. It only rubs when I hit a big deep/bump or turn extremely sharp.

Please explain."

P.S. I have free floating rotors.

Are you sure the caliper is rubbing? What I mean is, can you see a rub mark or scrape on the caliper or inside the wheel? I would be surprised if the caliper was intermittently rubbing the wheel, simply because the wheel/hub/rotor plane always stay "true" and should not change relative to each other at any time.

If no mark is visible, what you might be hearing is the heat shield rubbing the rotor... it may not be trimmed properly, or it may have gotten bent during installation.

No matter what, the key to solving the problem is determining exactly where the sound is coming from.

- Rob

[Limited_Slip]

Are you sure the caliper is rubbing? What I mean is, can you see a rub mark or scrape on the caliper or inside the wheel? I would be surprised if the caliper was intermittently rubbing the wheel, simply because the wheel/hub/rotor plane always stay "true" and should not change relative to each other at any time.

If no mark is visible, what you might be hearing is the heat shield rubbing the rotor... it may not be trimmed properly, or it may have gotten bent during installation.

No matter what, the key to solving the problem is determining exactly where the sound is coming from.

- Rob


UUC,

Yes, the caliper is rubbing because the bottom corner of the willwood caliper face has scratch mark =(

This is really werid because it doesn't rub while going straight or while making regular turns. It only rubs when I am going over bumps.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

UUC,

Yes, the caliper is rubbing because the bottom corner of the willwood caliper face has scratch mark =(

This is really werid because it doesn't rub while going straight or while making regular turns. It only rubs when I am going over bumps.

If it's one side only, there's a chance you might have a loose wheel bearing. Any weird noises or looseness?

But no matter what, sounds like the calipers come very close to your wheels. I recommend a small wheel spacer, probably 3mm or 5mm would be sufficient.

- Rob

(P.S. my name is not "UUC" :D )

[bigjae1976]

Can anyone post pics here?

[Limited_Slip]

If it's one side only, there's a chance you might have a loose wheel bearing. Any weird noises or looseness?

But no matter what, sounds like the calipers come very close to your wheels. I recommend a small wheel spacer, probably 3mm or 5mm would be sufficient.

- Rob

(P.S. my name is not "UUC" :D )

Rob,

Is there another way to tell if I have a loose bearing. Can I remove my wheel, rotor, and caliper and do a visual inspection?


Can anyone post pics here?

The caliper looks great. I can take a picture

[AZx330iZHP]

Just to let everyone know.. My Wilwoods form UUC have been on my car for 3 months now. Back in September 06 they sent me black calipers instead of red. So I waited 5 months for red calipers. When I got the red calipers they were not powder coated they were painted with regular auto paint. They also did a real sloppy job as they painted all six pistons on the fronts and the four on the rears. I have had nothing but problems as the piston rings are gummed due to them being painted. They are also chipping due to them being cheaply painted. I have contacted Wilwood and they will send me a replacement kit for the rings. So looks like I will be taking calipers apart. THANKS UUC. In the first place I should not have waited 5 months for new RED calipers, and they should have been properly painted. I called every two weeks and got the run around until I spoke to the shipping manager one day and he shipped them to me. I will also say they dont sweep the full rotor which isnt a real big deal it does look a little funny. You get what you pay for. Im not hating this is just the truth.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Just to let everyone know.. My Wilwoods form UUC have been on my car for 3 months now. Back in September 06 they sent me black calipers instead of red. So I waited 5 months for red calipers. When I got the red calipers they were not powder coated they were painted with regular auto paint. They also did a real sloppy job as they painted all six pistons on the fronts and the four on the rears. I have had nothing but problems as the piston rings are gummed due to them being painted. They are also chipping due to them being cheaply painted. I have contacted Wilwood and they will send me a replacement kit for the rings. So looks like I will be taking calipers apart. THANKS UUC. In the first place I should not have waited 5 months for new RED calipers, and they should have been properly painted. I called every two weeks and got the run around until I spoke to the shipping manager one day and he shipped them to me. I will also say they dont sweep the full rotor which isnt a real big deal it does look a little funny. You get what you pay for. Im not hating this is just the truth.
I'm confused. Were you dealing with UUC or with Wilwood? Because if you were dealing with Wilwood, which it sounds like you were, then I'm not quite sure where UUC did something wrong. I'm sure if you contacted UUC when the issue presented itself, they would have taken care of the problems entirely on their own and gotten you the right stuff. Now, if you have been dealing with UUC directly, I'm shocked. But like I said, I'm confused... so let us know who you were dealing with throughout this ordeal... Wilwood or UUC.

[AZx330iZHP]

I'm confused. Were you dealing with UUC or with Wilwood? Because if you were dealing with Wilwood, which it sounds like you were, then I'm not quite sure where UUC did something wrong. I'm sure if you contacted UUC when the issue presented itself, they would have taken care of the problems entirely on their own and gotten you the right stuff. Now, if you have been dealing with UUC directly, I'm shocked. But like I said, I'm confused... so let us know who you were dealing with throughout this ordeal... Wilwood or UUC.

I was dealing with UUC the whole time as they are the ones who made the custom kit. Its a kit designed by UUC using Wilwood calipers, UUC brackets, and BMW rotors. Yes and I was dealing with UUC direct and was shocked at how long it took them to rectify the wrong color calipers. It took a little over 5 months for them to correct the situation. And thats with me calling them every two weeks for five months. I was promised and promised that they were being shipped out, etc. So now that there is a problem with the pistons not depressing right due to the paint gumming up the rings, and this causes the pads to rub while driving, I called Wilwood for help as I didnt want to wait 5 months for UUC.

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Im not hating this is just the truth.

Maybe not "hating", but apparently posting this on every UUC/Wilwood thread. Hmmm... :D

This is the first I am hearing of this, and cannot think of any reason why you would have been waiting "5 months" for red calipers when our longest turn-around for custom colors is barely 2 weeks!

As far as standing behind the product, I think our reputation speaks for itself... if you were having this type of problem, a qiuck call to UUC would have met with an instant resolution to your satisfaction. Can't imagine why you would not have called us, but I would like the opportunity to speak with your directly and see what we can do for you.

Communication is the key.

Please feel free to call me in the office on Monday, 908-874-9092.

[m3on20z]

Hey Rob, seems like you're making the BBK's for all Bimmers now, any chance you'd be willing to make them for X5's?

There's actually a bunch of products I really want from you for my X5, I just wish you made them. Such as the TSE3, that exhaust for my 3.0 would be sex. :drool:

Please let me know!

[Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks]

Hey Rob, seems like you're making the BBK's for all Bimmers now, any chance you'd be willing to make them for X5's?

We are looking at the X5, actually! X5s (and many of the newer large BMWs) have specific requirements that differentiate them from our primary 3-series offerings.

Doing kits for the larger vehicles will call for special calipers and rotors... just the sort of "custom" stuff that we've been working on!

I cannot give any specific details right now, but watch our website over the next few months for some exciting developments.

- Rob

[m3on20z]

We are looking at the X5, actually! X5s (and many of the newer large BMWs) have specific requirements that differentiate them from our primary 3-series offerings.

Doing kits for the larger vehicles will call for special calipers and rotors... just the sort of "custom" stuff that we've been working on!

I cannot give any specific details right now, but watch our website over the next few months for some exciting developments.

- Rob

That's great to hear, Rob! :bow: I know a bunch of people on www.x5world.com that'll be VERY excited to hear the news! :D

Edit: Any news on making exhausts for X5's?