Active Autowerke Introduces E46 330ci (MS45) Twin Screw SC Project - *Vids Included*

[Active Autowerke]

Hello Board,

I am here to introduce the Active Autowerke E46 330 Twin Screw Kit. Here are a couple pics and a quick vid we made yesterday. This is a Level 2 system and should provide some really good power and torque. Please feel free to reply with any questions you may have and we will try to answer you in a timely manner.

The kit is going to be completely bolt on as of right now with no engine modifications needed. Our test car has completely stock exhaust system and stock clutch setup.

More info as far as dyno date, dyno runs, etc will be available in the upcoming weeks.

EDIT: CAR IN THE VIDEO IS A 2005

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/rahtid544/MVC-011S.jpg

CLICK BELOW FOR VIDEO
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7f18bbb5-0745-4f56-85e1-98120011bbc1.htm

CLICK BELOW FOR ANOTHER LINK TO VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvSALc4dNGU

P.S. Video isnt the best quality and does not have best filming, just trying to keep everyone updated.

[BMWDon]

Looks cool :) Is that a water to air intercoolen inbetween the s/c and the manifold? With the remote radiator in the front or something? Sounds pretty wicked with the hood open :evil:

[phrozen06]

I'm curious about this..can't wait to see the final price and hp numbers for this.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

:rofl: You wish thats what you got to drive home.

Looks good man....

[UniqueEDesign]

:drool: :clap:
Looks cool :) Is that a water to air intercoolen inbetween the s/c and the manifold? With the remote radiator in the front or something? Sounds pretty wicked with the hood open :evil:
Yep! It uses laminova cores in the manifold which covers the water/air cooling and then there is a heat exchanger up front to help out some more. The cores just slide into the manifold to make an easy upgrade.

[Alex]

Cheesy music though.

:P

[MachRc]

Great Video!!! Wow the car really sounds sweet!

[Mike Benvo]

Looks like you guys beat ESS to the punch. Good work! :thumbup:

[jdm3]

Beat them? Ehh.. Did we not see ESS photos, design and a DYNO several months ago on a Z4 3.0 MS45? As far as I know the AA isn't even tuned yet? And as far as I understand that is the BIG issue with a TS on the MS45:tsk:

[330 HRE]

jdm3: Are you a ESS fanatic and hate AA or something? AA thus far has shown a working car. Only thing that ESS has done is just show pictures...actions are louder than a painted picture don't you think?

Seems like you underestimate AA. These guys have been around the block for a long time...just b/c other companies can't break or tune doesn't mean AA can't. Not trying to turn this into a piss contest...just you are very negative about AA for no reason.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

jdm3: Are you a ESS fanatic and hate AA or something? AA thus far has shown a working car. Only thing that ESS has done is just show pictures...actions are louder than a painted picture don't you think?

Seems like you underestimate AA. These guys have been around the block for a long time...just b/c other companies can't break or tune doesn't mean AA can't. Not trying to turn this into a piss contest...just you are very negative about AA for no reason.
For the record the tuning isn't finished yet. That doesn't mean that its not doable. The real problem with MS45 that was pointed out to me is that you can't change the tune without pulling the computer from the car, meaning each adjustment you make takes about 5 times as long. Coupled with the much larger database of charts, the MS45 is a biatch to tune.

[jdm3]

Nope, not negative at all. But the fact is that ESS has presented a dyno and kit pictures several months ago and deserve credit for the first functional M54 MS45 TS kit, period. In theory you can slap on the AA/Eurosport E36 TS on a M54 engine and rev it to redline, but who knows what power and AF ratio it makes? Most likely not good at all without the proper software to match.. Only time will tell which kit is the best once they both are released and independently tested..

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Nope, not negative at all. But the fact is that ESS has presented a dyno and kit pictures several months ago and deserve credit for the first functional M54 MS45 TS kit, period. In theory you can slap on the AA/Eurosport E36 TS on a M54 engine and rev it to redline, but who knows what power and AF ratio it makes? Most likely not good at all without the proper software to match.. Only time will tell which kit is the best once they both are released and independently tested..
The E36 manifolds are different and require a fair bit of modification to even fit on an M54 engine head.

[jdm3]

No, the port shape is different, but it will bolt on and work -but far from optimal.

[TxZHP04]

Take it easy guys. No vendor has a completed TS kit ready to ship for the e46. Do you really care who announced first or who posted the first pics & video?

[stimpee]

Beat them? Ehh.. Did we not see ESS photos, design and a DYNO several months ago on a Z4 3.0 MS45? As far as I know the AA isn't even tuned yet? And as far as I understand that is the BIG issue with a TS on the MS45:tsk:

Yeah, and didn't I personally create the first working intercooled TS ever on a BMW 6 cylinder engine, had it running for several years, and intentionally designed the system from the start to be upward compatible with whatever I could see in models for the future?

So what, big deal, right? :ben:

Lighten up a little bit dude!!!

:thumbup:

Steve

[jdm3]

I give you credit for great work Stimpee, but let's face it: Your design is quite simple and there are probably over 1.000.000 people in the world capable of mounting a Lysholm/Autorotor twin screw SC unit to a BMW M50 family engine. How many people in the world are capable of reprogramming one of the worlds most advanced engine management systems (Siemens MS45) to work with 50-80% more airflow/torque throughout the RPM range? Probably less than 10.. That is why I would like to see some MS45 TS dynos before we say we have a 330ZHP TS kit, otherwise you simply have a pile of metal junk that any competent engineer/welder/mechanic/etc could easily put togheter in a few weeks.. I'm not bashing anyone, but IMHO the software is the major task in a MS45 based TS application as it is much harder making it accept massive boost at low RPM's and tons of torque than it is to make it accept for instance a centrifugal setup. This is also why Turbos are not developed for the E46 line if I understand the experts correctly? It is just so damn hard making the newer generation management systems accept so much low/mid range boost without going insane/crashing into torque limitations, etc :dunno:

[UniqueEDesign]

That is why I would like to see some MS45 TS dynos before we say we have a 330ZHP TS kit, otherwise you simply have a pile of metal junk that any competent
Not to start anything because I do agree that software is the most important issue in making a TS work with the MS45. However, you seem to favor ESS but is what you just said not what ESS did for 6 months? :dunno:

I do understand that software has not been proven on this thread, however, it has been throughly researched and is almost at it's final stages. It doesn't say that this kit is ready for the market, but it does offer more proof of a solid progress on the TS kit and is really here to update the community.

[chisau]

Damn. You've got to have thick skin to offer products to the BMW crowd. '1 million other people' haven't tried to 'mount a Lysholm/Autorotor to a BMW until recently. Way to bash someone who is trying to offer our community options. We should be glad that someone like Stimpee who was just an enthusiast like most of us spent his time and money to engineer a product for us to even have an option for a Twinscrew.

[Active Autowerke]

I give you credit for great work Stimpee, but let's face it: Your design is quite simple and there are probably over 1.000.000 people in the world capable of mounting a Lysholm/Autorotor twin screw SC unit to a BMW M50 family engine. How many people in the world are capable of reprogramming one of the worlds most advanced engine management systems (Siemens MS45) to work with 50-80% more airflow/torque throughout the RPM range? Probably less than 10.. That is why I would like to see some MS45 TS dynos before we say we have a 330ZHP TS kit, otherwise you simply have a pile of metal junk that any competent engineer/welder/mechanic/etc in the world could easily put togheter in a few weeks.. I'm not bashing anyone, but IMHO the software is the major task in a MS45 based TS application as it is much harder making it accept massive boost at low RPM's and tons of torque than it is to make it accept for instance a centrifugal setup. This is also why Turbos are not developed for the E46 line if I understand the experts correctly? It is just so damn hard making the newer generation management systems accept so much low/mid range boost without going insane/crashing into torque limitations, etc :dunno:

Honestly, I have tried to ignore everything you have been saying. Most of your posts lack any sort of intelligence. You type about AA as if you are bitter about something. I am willing to send you a Tshirt or Hat for free to help make up for any wrongdoing in the past.

We have been working on this twin screw for 3 weeks and we have the car up and running with a video and some how you find something negative to say.. Now to say that 1million people could create Stimpee's setup you are truly Ignorant and I believe you owe Stimpee an apology, better yet I apologize to Stimpee on your behalf.

As far as the metal pile of junk you are talking about, If I am not mistaken the first one we made ( cast ) was over $15K.

You also need to do your research, Active Autowerke is the ONLY company.... yes the ONLY company that has a Turbo kit running on an E46 using the stock computer. We dont advertise it or push it because it will not be available in a kit form. So apparently you dont understand the EXPERTS correctly.

After writing all this I am still in shock that you called Stimpee's design "simple", but hey its not your fault.

Yes this post is quite aggressive but sometimes its necessary. Sorry if anyone is offended.

..... The reason I decided to hold out on posting info on this kit was because I didnt want to post simple pics because it would be pointless, obviously the video wasnt good enough for you. I am going out to film some more and hopefully satisfy you.

I am sure Stimpee will come on to explain how complex it truly is to design such a kit.

If you have anything else to say please call me. 305.233.9300 xt 232

[FLVK]

so much hating in this forum:hmm: damn...anyhow, I can't wait to see the final products on both ESS and AA. I am about a 3 hours drive to AA so I might have to do a weekend trip next year:shhh: ....assuming I am keeping the 330ci instead of upgrading to a 335i

[Active Autowerke]

so much hating in this forum:hmm: damn...anyhow, I can't wait to see the final products on both ESS and AA. I am about a 3 hours drive to AA so I might have to do a weekend trip next year:shhh: ....assuming I am keeping the 330ci instead of upgrading to a 335i

We dont discriminate, we will have something for the 335 as well. So i assume we will see you next year? :)

[jdm3]

I am sorry if I came on a bit hard, I have no problem with Stimpee, AA or ESS for that matter. I am just so sick and tired of aftermarket companies that just slap on a piece of boost hardware on a very advanced machine and say: we are almost done, just the software left so next week all should be good. The software IS the task! Don't fool yourself, the hardware of a simple SC kit is quite easy to make. Getting it to run correctly is the hard part, but somehow everybody seems to forget that. Why can't all the Mert's and Horsepowerfreaks of the world just accept that their product is FAR from finished, or simply document that it works with a simple dyno w/AF logging? When it comes to ESS and AA I consider these companies in the category "might very well make it work", but until it works and you can document that it works (dyno!!!) then don't say : We should be done in a few days, we just have the software left.. :censor:

[Chr325is]

I want one, bad. Any plans for MS45 M54B25's? If not, no big deal, I'll just do what I really want to do, M54B30 swap and TS that.

[Active Autowerke]

I am sorry if I came on a bit hard, I have no problem with Stimpee, AA or ESS for that matter. I am just so sick and tired of aftermarket companies that just slap on a piece of boost hardware on a very advanced machine and say: we are almost done, just the software left so next week all should be good. The software IS the task! Don't fool yourself, the hardware of a simple SC kit is quite easy to make. Getting it to run correctly is the hard part, but somehow everybody seems to forget that. Why can't all the Mert's and Horsepowerfreaks of the world just accept that their product is FAR from finished, or simply document that it works with a simple dyno w/AF logging? When it comes to ESS and AA I consider these companies in the category "might very well make it work", but until it works and you can document that it works (dyno!!!) then don't say : We should be done in a few days, we just have the software left.. :censor:

1. I never said we were almost finished.
2. Please dont compare us to xsx,xxxxnxx, or xxrsxxxxxxfxxxxx, if you are doing it for that reason.
3. Our plan is to come out with this kit. When we say we are going to do something chances are we will do it.
4. When a man works hard to create something and then it is insulted without strong information to back them up he will get offended. You should be careful how you word things in the future.
5. Last but not least we are not a "might very well work" kind of company.
6. WE ONLY HAVE THE SOFTWARE LEFT!!! :shhh:

[jdm3]

I am not insulting anyone, but if you think bolting a TS to a M5X engine is the top engineering marvel of the world you have a problem. ANY good machine shop can make a simple kit as long as it does not require advanced dual layer castings - some can even do that. This is what they do, they fabricate parts to customers specifications. Now if we are talking about building a nuke or a space shuttle (or understanding and reprogramming MS45 code..:yikes: ) then I would agree that not 1M people could do it, but look around in the world on what is being built and tell me that there are not tons of people up to fabricating a TS setup?

[Active Autowerke]

I am not insulting anyone, but if you think bolting a TS to a M5X engine is the top engineering marvel of the world you have a problem. ANY good machine shop can make a simple kit as long as it does not require advanced dual layer castings - some can even do that. This is what they do, they fabricate parts to customers specifications. Now if we are talking about building a nuke or a space shuttle (or understanding and reprogramming MS45 code..:yikes: ) then I would agree that not 1M people could do it, but look around in the world on what is being built and tell me that there are not tons of people up to fabricating a TS setup?

umm ok... back on topic

Please let us know what questions you guys have with the setup. You can ask somewhat complex questions as well because Stimpee is following this thread and he hand a bring hand in bringing this kit to market.

[stimpee]

I am not insulting anyone, but if you think bolting a TS to a M5X engine is the top engineering marvel of the world you have a problem. ANY good machine shop can make a simple kit as long as it does not require advanced dual layer castings - some can even do that. This is what they do, they fabricate parts to customers specifications. Now if we are talking about building a nuke or a space shuttle (or understanding and reprogramming MS45 code..:yikes: ) then I would agree that not 1M people could do it, but look around in the world on what is being built and tell me that there are not tons of people up to fabricating a TS setup?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You make me laugh.

Do I think creating the Twin screw was a huge feat of greatness? No. Do I think it is something that any old git with a welder and machine shop could do? No. If so, why was I the only one/first one to do it? It looks so damned simple AFTER IT IS DONE.

BTW, news flash, bolting on a twin screw to an engine, is NOT the same as ENGINEERING a kit. I give huge credit to the software side, and agree that in this day and age, it is more difficult, and complex, than creating the hardware. However to discount the hardware as something that anyone can do, indicates that you clearly have NO CLUE.

But, since you say it is so easy, and that ANYONE can do it, I bow down to your understanding of the world, of hardware, and of engineering, :bow: :bow: and will step aside to bask in the glow of your greatness...

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

I want one, bad. Any plans for MS45 M54B25's? If not, no big deal, I'll just do what I really want to do, M54B30 swap and TS that.
Last I heard they were planning on it. It would share the same casting and the software wouldn't be too big a hurdle.

As far as software being the big hurdle - the turbos don't have a linear boost or displacement increase. The TS has the most linear so if anything it should be the easiest to tune. They aren't common simply because it does take a lot of work to put the casting together and although there are plenty of people who can do it there aren't many who can do it, then follow through with the programming and have the car running, then follow through with fine tuning everything.

Give AA some credit here, they are working hard and just wanted to show that they are doing what they can to get this kit to market quickly, noone said it was going to be done tomorrow ;)

[330 HRE]

Honestly, I have tried to ignore everything you have been saying. Most of your posts lack any sort of intelligence. You type about AA as if you are bitter about something. I am willing to send you a Tshirt or Hat for free to help make up for any wrongdoing in the past.

We have been working on this twin screw for 3 weeks and we have the car up and running with a video and some how you find something negative to say.. Now to say that 1million people could create Stimpee's setup you are truly Ignorant and I believe you owe Stimpee an apology, better yet I apologize to Stimpee on your behalf.

As far as the metal pile of junk you are talking about, If I am not mistaken the first one we made ( cast ) was over $15K.

You also need to do your research, Active Autowerke is the ONLY company.... yes the ONLY company that has a Turbo kit running on an E46 using the stock computer. We dont advertise it or push it because it will not be available in a kit form. So apparently you dont understand the EXPERTS correctly.

After writing all this I am still in shock that you called Stimpee's design "simple", but hey its not your fault.

Yes this post is quite aggressive but sometimes its necessary. Sorry if anyone is offended.

..... The reason I decided to hold out on posting info on this kit was because I didnt want to post simple pics because it would be pointless, obviously the video wasnt good enough for you. I am going out to film some more and hopefully satisfy you.

I am sure Stimpee will come on to explain how complex it truly is to design such a kit.

If you have anything else to say please call me. 305.233.9300 xt 232

Can you send me a free t-shirt and hat just b/c I want one and waiting for the final conclusion to the AA ts.:thumbsup:

[Active Autowerke]

Can you send me a free t-shirt and hat just b/c I want one and waiting for the final conclusion to the AA ts.:thumbsup:

Lol ill see what I can do..

[david05111]

Honestly, I have tried to ignore everything you have been saying. Most of your posts lack any sort of intelligence. You type about AA as if you are bitter about something. I am willing to send you a Tshirt or Hat for free to help make up for any wrongdoing in the past.

We have been working on this twin screw for 3 weeks and we have the car up and running with a video and some how you find something negative to say.. Now to say that 1million people could create Stimpee's setup you are truly Ignorant and I believe you owe Stimpee an apology, better yet I apologize to Stimpee on your behalf.

As far as the metal pile of junk you are talking about, If I am not mistaken the first one we made ( cast ) was over $15K.

You also need to do your research, Active Autowerke is the ONLY company.... yes the ONLY company that has a Turbo kit running on an E46 using the stock computer. We dont advertise it or push it because it will not be available in a kit form. So apparently you dont understand the EXPERTS correctly.

After writing all this I am still in shock that you called Stimpee's design "simple", but hey its not your fault.

Yes this post is quite aggressive but sometimes its necessary. Sorry if anyone is offended.

..... The reason I decided to hold out on posting info on this kit was because I didnt want to post simple pics because it would be pointless, obviously the video wasnt good enough for you. I am going out to film some more and hopefully satisfy you.

I am sure Stimpee will come on to explain how complex it truly is to design such a kit.

If you have anything else to say please call me. 305.233.9300 xt 232

I commend you for that post...Its about time AA stood up for themselves. I cant wait to see what you guys do with this and I guarantee that I will be in the shop getting one of these when they come out. Thanks for the unbelievably quick development of this kit!

On a side note, I know you dont push the Turbo, but I'm sure alot of us on the board would love to hear some details on it if its not too much of a hassle...

PS...If you are giving out free hats, you could send me one! :thumbup:

[MarvelPhx]

Relax. Competition is healthy and drives the marketplace we all buy from.

Let's see both of these kits get to retail and then find someone who can do a head to head comparison without all the drama...

[Yellowmann]

Relax. Competition is healthy and drives the marketplace we all buy from.

Let's see both of these kits get to retail and then find someone who can do a head to head comparison without all the drama...

DITTO that and who ever comes out first with the great price will get the market share :thumbup:

BTW great video and cant wait for more detail.

[UniqueEDesign]

Lol ill see what I can do..
Hey Omar.... me toooooo :shhh: :lmao:
seriously tho... ill get you a UED one too ;)

[BF330ci]

I am sorry if I came on a bit hard, I have no problem with Stimpee, AA or ESS for that matter. I am just so sick and tired of aftermarket companies that just slap on a piece of boost hardware on a very advanced machine and say: we are almost done, just the software left so next week all should be good. The software IS the task! Don't fool yourself, the hardware of a simple SC kit is quite easy to make. Getting it to run correctly is the hard part, but somehow everybody seems to forget that. Why can't all the Mert's and Horsepowerfreaks of the world just accept that their product is FAR from finished, or simply document that it works with a simple dyno w/AF logging? When it comes to ESS and AA I consider these companies in the category "might very well make it work", but until it works and you can document that it works (dyno!!!) then don't say : We should be done in a few days, we just have the software left.. :censor:

Not to heighten this drama but jdm3, have you been present at AA shop and following closely to how far along their software development is coming?

I am failing to see your proof in the above statements.

Not that it is my place to tell you, but maybe you should leave the "progress reports" up to the companies that are in control of the TS Supercharger operation.

(Just a thought :shhh: )

...and to AA,
I am very interested in this product, some time next year i plan on purchasing a supercharger (TS or Centri). Seeing as i dont have a ZHP will this be available for non-ZHP 330s?

Thanks!!!

[phrozen06]

Not to heighten this drama but jdm3, have you been present at AA shop and following closely to how far along their software development is coming?

I am failing to see your proof in the above statements.

Not that it is my place to tell you, but maybe you should leave the "progress reports" up to the companies that are in control of the TS Supercharger operation.

(Just a thought :shhh: )

...and to AA,
I am very interested in this product, some time next year i plan on purchasing a supercharger (TS or Centri). Seeing as i dont have a ZHP will this be available for non-ZHP 330s?

Thanks!!!

Agree 100% and I'm also hoping that you're developing this for the non Zhp 330's??????

[stimpee]

...and to AA,
I am very interested in this product, some time next year i plan on purchasing a supercharger (TS or Centri). Seeing as i dont have a ZHP will this be available for non-ZHP 330s?

Thanks!!!

We will likely be producing kits for all E46 (non-M) models.

[2003330i]

what kind of power figures are you getting

[stimpee]

I don't have any numbers that I can provide yet. Soon though!

Steve

[2003330i]

I don't have any numbers that I can provide yet. Soon though!

Steve

i know you guys say your close to the ecu being done but how close are you really. dont mean to be offensive at all but just been hearing from other vendors that the ecu is almost done for a while now

[Skeeter]

Any intro pricing specials :)

[Tireux Roche]

If you have anything else to say please call me. 305.233.9300 xt 232



Nice job Omar. Classy response.

You've made me a future customer.

[BF330ci]

We will likely be producing kits for all E46 (non-M) models.

Cool! Thanks! :thumbsup:

[OCswedishM3]

Nice job Omar. Classy response.

You've made me a future customer.

Possibly the smartest decision you have made to date:thumbup:

[Active Autowerke]

i know you guys say your close to the ecu being done but how close are you really. dont mean to be offensive at all but just been hearing from other vendors that the ecu is almost done for a while now

I understand where you are coming from completely. The software will take some time. There are a couple guys here on the forums that have been by AA lately and realized the hardware was just completed Mon afternoon and now the car is up and running. We are moving as quickly as we can as this kit is our priority. I will keep you informed as much as I can. :thumbup:

p.s. All you E46 owners we have exhaust, drop in filters & software for $749

[hookem12387]

I understand where you are coming from completely. The software will take some time. There are a couple guys here on the forums that have been by AA lately and realized the hardware was just completed Mon afternoon and now the car is up and running. We are moving as quickly as we can as this kit is our priority. I will keep you informed as much as I can. :thumbup:

p.s. All you E46 owners we have exhaust, drop in filters & software for $749
Damn, why didnt you say that before I already got my exhaust and intake

[SHV]

Do you have an estimate for when pricing will be ready?

[Tireux Roche]

Possibly the smartest decision you have made to date:thumbup:


Statistically, it was bound to start happening sometime.

;)

[Hollywood619]

First Omar, let me say that the video was frickin' awesome. Yes, including the music, but especially that intake sound. OK, on to the ?'s.
1. Will you offer the kit in a "base" form without intercooling? (in the interest of lower pricing)
2. What is the rumor of pricing?
3. What are the estimates of boost levels vs. HP/TQ?
4. What "hard part" modification is required other than the removal of the intake manifold?
5. How are you going about the tuning, i.e. injectors and DME, rising rate fuel regulator, stand alone EFI?
6. Will it be Steptronic friendly?
7. Want a mule in Europe that runs 95 octane on a US DME? HAHA, I know.

Thanks a lot for all your effort and keeping us informed, now, how about some preliminary dynos.:thumbsup:

[Active Autowerke]

First Omar, let me say that the video was frickin' awesome. Yes, including the music, but especially that intake sound. OK, on to the ?'s.
1. Will you offer the kit in a "base" form without intercooling? (in the interest of lower pricing)

Not sure yet, we have it that way on the E36 models but may just provide this kit with intercooling only.

2. What is the rumor of pricing?

Not sure yet, What do you think a fair price would be for the level 2 setup?

3. What are the estimates of boost levels vs. HP/TQ?

A lot :) jk, I will have that info soon.

4. What "hard part" modification is required other than the removal of the intake manifold?

ummm Maybe hooking up the heatexchanger. The main peice comes pre assembled.

5. How are you going about the tuning, i.e. injectors and DME, rising rate fuel regulator, stand alone EFI?

Stock ECU. More info will come later on

6. Will it be Steptronic friendly?

Havent tried one yet..

7. Want a mule in Europe that runs 95 octane on a US DME? HAHA, I know.

Lol ill let you know.

Thanks a lot for all your effort and keeping us informed, now, how about some preliminary dynos.:thumbsup:

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[TxZHP04]

Omar,

How's that stock clutch holding up on the development car? I have no idea what the torque capacity of the factory clutch is but have always presumed that it would need to be upgraded for FI. Are you guys confident it will hold up or are you simply testing it to see what its' capable of?

[ikeupinya]

Nice vid Omar! It looked like someone was not wearing their seatbelt...:eeps:

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Nice vid Omar! It looked like someone was not wearing their seatbelt...:eeps:
I saw that light too and wondered if it was one of the other lights (traction control LOL).

[ikeupinya]

I saw that light too and wondered if it was one of the other lights (traction control LOL).

Perhaps, ole' wise Sponsor!!!

[UniqueEDesign]

Omar,

How's that stock clutch holding up on the development car? I have no idea what the torque capacity of the factory clutch is but have always presumed that it would need to be upgraded for FI. Are you guys confident it will hold up or are you simply testing it to see what its' capable of?

They are testing to see what type of power the stock clutch will hold and depending on slippage will change it out with a more FI based setup. :thumbup:

[Active Autowerke]

Nice vid Omar! It looked like someone was not wearing their seatbelt...:eeps:

It was a spurt of the moment test drive, so I didnt get time. That why I didnt have it on, thats why the camera was all over the place. Sorry about that.

Make sure you guys always have your seatbelts on.:thumbup:

[Active Autowerke]

They are testing to see what type of power the stock clutch will hold and depending on slippage will change it out with a more FI based setup. :thumbup:

Nice Sig.

[jdm3]

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Ya I have a question .
Actually a challenge for both ESS and AA , if and when these two kits do come out , why dont both of these companies have two techs one from ESS and one from AA place each of their T.S on one car (the same car ) one day apart or maybe two with the supervision of two people lets say maybe Greg Emerson the editor of Eurotuner and a person he picks and chooses . After the install we have a head to head challenge for tourqe and horespower . Then have Eurotuner posts the results and do a write up on both kits as to which one is better and performs the best for the price .How about that OMAR is AA up to the challenge and this applies to ESS also .I would love to see that and Im sure so does everybody else on here .
Well ?
Can you backup what you claim . NOW THATS WHAT I CALL COMPETITION .

[chisau]

Sounds good but I doubt it would ever happen.

[TxZHP04]

They are testing to see what type of power the stock clutch will hold and depending on slippage will change it out with a more FI based setup. :thumbup:

Cool. Thanks, "Omar". ;)

I look forward to hearing how it holds up.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

You dont even have your software ready so how are you going to post videos , videos of what the car sitting in a shop with a T.S installed on the engine . LOL :thumbup: :shhh:
Software not being done and software not being started are two separate things. The car is running......in fact....there is a video in this thread with the car on the street with the blower on it and obvious software alterations (higher redline).

[RedBarron]

How much boost is this twin screw pushing?

[WillE46]

The music in the video is great, the clarity is ok but, truthfully, I'm not impressed with the video performance-wise. I give ALL DUE CREDIT to AA for their progress, especially in such short time. I am also sure that they'll crack the programing and have it working to perfection in due time. Their reputation is top notch.
I just expected a more impressive form of acceleration, especially from a ZHP. I assume those pulls were 2nd gear or 3rd gear pulls. Unless those pulls were done in 4rth gear, I am not impressed. This is not a centrifugal system we're dealing with here. With the amount of instant torque that this TS setup is supposed to put out and carry to redline, I would expect a more raw/aggressive/violent, although linear, rush to redline. It seemed more like the acceleration of a N/A modded 330 to me; maybe a stock M3 at best. Also, when not moving, it was quieter than I was expecting. It sounded like any bimmer with an intake and a slight whistle/wine.

Obviously, in regards to the acceleration, I could be and likely am, wrong since I was not there to physically witness it or take a ride in it. Maybe I should go by there one of these days. Anyways, just sharing my thoughts.

Good Luck to AA in their continued efforts to bring the Bimmer community the best of the best.

[david05111]

I've got some questions...

In the vid, what gear are most of those pulls in? How fast were you going? My rpms seem to climb faster than that if that is a second gear pull...if its a third gear one, it would make more sense.

Also, whats the deal with a front-mounted intercooler like that if its raining? Is there a potential risk to the engine if you are going through a huge downpour / minor standing water? I know that the intake would have that problem, but i didn't know about the intercooler...

[JCz04Bimmer]

For people who have purchased software from you guys already, do we get reprogrammed for free or get offered any sort of discount for coming back?

Just throwing that out there.

Also, if you need a NorthEast based test bed...

[chisau]

Damn. Whether they have it or not who cares? At least they are trying to bring something to market. Question for you though. With all

the criticism and accusations of being misleading, would you be on the list to purchase a kit if they produced info showing HP, torque and

AFR to your liking at a reasonable price?

I've been around since AA first introduced their E36 Turbos. Back then I was heavily into VW's

and I remember people saying that they would go no where with it. Same thing happened to all of their Rotrex based kits. I'll admit,

others have improved on their technology over the years. But damn, even if this kit fails due to poor tuning, at least they tried, right?

[AlexM105]

For people who have purchased software from you guys already, do we get reprogrammed for free or get offered any sort of discount for coming back?

Just throwing that out there.
Good question. :thumbup:

[UniqueEDesign]

Nice Sig.
:thumbsup: How about that shirt swap I was talking about. Monday maybe :dunno: :shhh:

Cool. Thanks, "Omar". ;)

I look forward to hearing how it holds up.

:lmao: No love for me :( :hi:
How much boost is this twin screw pushing?
Stage 1 is about 5.5-6.5 PSI while Stage 2 is about 8.5-9 PSI. :thumbup:

[funkyman]

If your cars can`t beat a 2006 30k 400hp GTO on the track then forget it CHINA!!It really wouldn`t matter if you had The Battle star Galactica`s software on it with a Twin TS heheheh!!!!:lmao: :thumbsup:

[stylinexpat]

i know you guys say your close to the ecu being done but how close are you really. dont mean to be offensive at all but just been hearing from other vendors that the ecu is almost done for a while now

All vendors have been saying that for some time now and I have yet to see one running without the Service Engine light on the dashboard like a Christmas Tree that is light up 365 days of the year running lean.

[kpeng]

I've seen this kit in person, both on and off the car, and it's just absolutely gorgeous. I watched as Karl explained the kit, and there was a lot more involved than just bolting the thing on. You guys have to understand that a lot of engineering and work goes into making something work physically, so it is a big deal. It's a kit engineered specifically for the E46, it's not some generic kit, or a kit off an E36. The software is almost there, I assure you. AA has built some of the best FI BMWs in the world, and this project is going to be no different.

-Ken

[Juha 323Ci]

All vendors have been saying that for some time now and I have yet to see one running without the Service Engine light on the dashboard like a Christmas Tree that is light up 365 days of the year running lean.

4k miles and 3 months since the last CEL... AA is the shiet!!!:thumbsup:

[ADA]

why is AA getting so defensive? just let the product speak for itself.

I can wait for an independent review.

[Active Autowerke]

I've seen this kit in person, both on and off the car, and it's just absolutely gorgeous. I watched as Karl explained the kit, and there was a lot more involved than just bolting the thing on. You guys have to understand that a lot of engineering and work goes into making something work physically, so it is a big deal. It's a kit engineered specifically for the E46, it's not some generic kit, or a kit off an E36. The software is almost there, I assure you. AA has built some of the best FI BMWs in the world, and this project is going to be no different.

-Ken

Words of a wise man:thumbsup:

[Jlevi SW]

Can't wait to start selling this kit Omar!
JL

[JC7727]

:evil:

[phrozen06]

One thing's for sure. AA will make a ton of money from this one because of the publicity. Negative or not.

[Juha 323Ci]

Once we hit the dyno we will post more info. The owner of the car is dropping by soon so they will be able to provide you with their reeaction.:thumbsup:

I promised to bring him down cause I wanna see the kit as well.:yikes:
We'll be rolling down in the M tomorrow or Friday...

[Active Autowerke]

I promised to bring him down cause I wanna see the kit as well.:yikes:
We'll be rolling down in the M tomorrow or Friday...

See you guys soon... :thumbsup:

[AlexM105]

See you guys soon... :thumbsup:
My friend and I will be there in about an hour. He needs to get something for his cousin's car, and I'm coming to see all the new E46 stuff...

[Active Autowerke]

Hey guys,

Got a chance to drive the car this Morning with on of our engineers to get an idea of how cold startup is. The drivability is perfect to say the least. I tried everything to make the car stall or idle hunt and not one issue. The car also pulled much harder than stock, both going through the gears and just getting on it from 3rd.

Going to test out a smaller pulley to see what else we can get out of it. Just providing you guys with my thoughts.

p.s. This is an honest feedback, just felt like I should let you guys know since I got a first hand idea.:thumbsup:

[david05111]

Ohhh Man I cant wait for the release! Do you have an estimate on that yet? A month, month and a half, two months?

[Active Autowerke]

Ohhh Man I cant wait for the release! Do you have an estimate on that yet? A month, month and a half, two months?

Soon Enough. Does anyone have a stock dyno chart of a ZHP available?

[yankis]

i do

[TxZHP04]

Soon Enough. Does anyone have a stock dyno chart of a ZHP available?

Ugh... you guys didn't dyno your test car before you started? Was it not stock to begin with?

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Ugh... you guys didn't dyno your test car before you started? Was it not stock to begin with?
:rofl:

They'll have to pull everything off the car to replicate it if I'm not mistaken, so I wouldn't be too worried if they didn't.

[chisau]

Im sure they are quite capable of a before a dyno...

http://www.aatuning.com/dyno/dyno.php

[TxZHP04]

Im sure they are quite capable of a before a dyno...

http://www.aatuning.com/dyno/dyno.php

We all know they are capable. I was merely questioning why they were asking for stock a ZHP dyno. They have a ZHP test car. Seems they would have done a before and after on the same car. Was wondering if their test car didn't come to them stock.

And as I recall, they also sell NA software for the ZHP. No dynos laying around from that tuning effort either?

I'm obviously missing something here as to why Omar would be asking for a stock dyno.

[Active Autowerke]

We all know they are capable. I was merely questioning why they were asking for stock a ZHP dyno. They have a ZHP test car. Seems they would have done a before and after on the same car. Was wondering if their test car didn't come to them stock.

And as I recall, they also sell NA software for the ZHP. No dynos laying around from that tuning effort either?

I'm obviously missing something here as to why Omar would be asking for a stock dyno.

Because we are using a Mustang Dyno and the majority of you Dyno on Dynojets, hence I could compare it to one of your files.


Our "test" car came to us completely stock including the exhaust system.

Thanks anyway guys..

p.s. Dyno runs are coming along good.

[TxZHP04]

Because we are using a Mustang Dyno and the majority of you Dyno on Dynojets, hence I could compare it to one of your files.


Our "test" car came to us completely stock including the exhaust system.

Thanks anyway guys..

p.s. Dyno runs are coming along good.

Ah... knew I was missing something there.

[WillE46]

How much did the stock test car dyno on your Mustang dyno?

[turboaddiction]

Hey guys,

Got a chance to drive the car this Morning with on of our engineers to get an idea of how cold startup is. The drivability is perfect to say the least. I tried everything to make the car stall or idle hunt and not one issue. The car also pulled much harder than stock, both going through the gears and just getting on it from 3rd.

Going to test out a smaller pulley to see what else we can get out of it. Just providing you guys with my thoughts.

p.s. This is an honest feedback, just felt like I should let you guys know since I got a first hand idea.:thumbsup:

Thank you Active Autowerke for getting on this and showing us actual video. :thumbsup: The Twin Screw is definitely the happy medium I think everyone will want. With the turbo you can get lots of power but the lag is the issue and tuning can be more difficult along with a tougher intstall. The centri S/C is what I really think of lag since it doesn't obtain full boost until redline. The Twin Screw can make lots of power and is capable of a ton more psi than the centri. Plus it makes full boost instantly with awesome low-end torque. I can't wait until you get the larger compressor kit out for 500whp. I will sell my e46 325/4 for a ZHP/4 or 330/4 at that time and contact you guys!

Hey by the way....Omar, is that you? The Omar with the GT40R Mcoupe monster? :)

[Active Autowerke]

Thank you Active Autowerke for getting on this and showing us actual video. :thumbsup: The Twin Screw is definitely the happy medium I think everyone will want. With the turbo you can get lots of power but the lag is the issue and tuning can be more difficult along with a tougher intstall. The centri S/C is what I really think of lag since it doesn't obtain full boost until redline. The Twin Screw can make lots of power and is capable of a ton more psi than the centri. Plus it makes full boost instantly with awesome low-end torque. I can't wait until you get the larger compressor kit out for 500whp. I will sell my e46 325/4 for a ZHP/4 or 330/4 at that time and contact you guys!

Hey by the way....Omar, is that you? The Omar with the GT40R Mcoupe monster? :)

Thanks for the kind words and support.

LOL nope thats another Omar.....

I have slightly bigger turbo on something else :yikes:

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Thanks for the kind words and support.

LOL nope thats another Omar.....

I have slightly bigger turbo on something else :yikes:
I heard the car is a beast Omar. I'm curious to see the finished numbers.

[Active Autowerke]

I heard the car is a beast Omar. I'm curious to see the finished numbers.

Im waiting for a certain someone to come on here and let everyone know how I felt about the ride in his car on Friday.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Im waiting for a certain someone to come on here and let everyone know how I felt about the ride in his car on Friday.
I haven't heard from the cat in a couple days (notice I'm not really available myself) but he sounded pretty happy when he called me yesterday.

He said you scared the crap out of him :lmao:

[6ick6ix6peed]

I saw this car on the dyno on friday and it was putting down some awesome numbers. I cant wait to see the finished results. Active is amazing.

[Activ3]

I haven't heard from the cat in a couple days (notice I'm not really available myself) but he sounded pretty happy when he called me yesterday.

He said you scared the crap out of him :lmao:


I heard that when he drove it he said it was too fast for him :eeps:

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

I heard that when he drove it he said it was too fast for him :eeps:
I was most impressed when he said getting a 3.38 might make first gear useless because of traction issues.

[Activ3]

3.15 Lsd Ftw!

[WillE46]

I saw this car on the dyno on friday and it was putting down some awesome numbers. I cant wait to see the finished results. Active is amazing.


Since their current Centri kit puts out about 280+whp, I take it, by awesome numbers, you mean that the TS is putting out something in the 310 wheel hp/tq range? Hopefully when complete, it'll be something closer to 340whp/wtq which would put it at 400+ crank hp/tq range. Of course this only applies if it at the same boost level (8psi).

[funkyman]

Technik Supercharger ST3 puts out 316 on wheel and 370hp on crank as seen on Dyno here and thats alot of power my friends and a bargain for 6.5k.I think with an additional pulley,exhaust and light flywheel,we can achieve 400hp @ crank no doubt an M3 killer.I still think the ATP turbo would be the best bang for your money with far more torque and room for power increases usning the upgrade option Garret gt35r ball bearing turbo charger for 5k.We can achieve a healthy 400hnp assuming the intercooler supplied is a large one,durable seals,clamps and tough 316 stainless steel plumbing and a good ECU program,keep your finger crossed.


http://www.technikpower.com/dyno/sc/330ci_s3_dyno_1.jpg

[WillE46]

I've always wondered why the numbers for BMW S/C kits were so low. My thoughts were always that if you are not getting a bare minimum of a 100whp and 100wtq gain @ 8psi, it's not worth the money (especially for these ridiculous $5K plus kits). I guess I'm too used to turbocharger systems on Japanese cars that can be had for 3gs or less and give you gains of 100+ whp easily and safely.

[russ330]

Technik Supercharger... ATP turbo...

An ATP Turbo kit that's never going to be released and Techniks centri kits have nothing to do with AA's Twin Screw SC.

I'll not have this thread turn into another senseless brand "X" kit is better than brand "Y" kit. Save that for a different thread.

Thank you.

[funkyman]

ATP have declared that they will release the Kit by October and 5k is better than 6.5k for a few pipelines and a blower and injectors and intercooler is too much.

[vaio76109]

ATP have declared that they will release the Kit by October and 5k is better than 6.5k for a few pipelines and a blower and injectors and intercooler is too much.
Yea ****ing right.

[BayerischeMW]

ATP have declared that they will release the Kit by October and 5k is better than 6.5k for a few pipelines and a blower and injectors and intercooler is too much.

riight, it's merely the blower, piping, injectors and intercooler in the kit.. ever think about the software which needs R&D even though centrifugal S/C is belt-driven? also, making sure fitment is optimal, the piping etc. needs to be custom and thus developed too. it all adds to the cost.

and let's not forget that everything for these cars cost extra.. i'm not defending that though!

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Since their current Centri kit puts out about 280+whp, I take it, by awesome numbers, you mean that the TS is putting out something in the 310 wheel hp/tq range? Hopefully when complete, it'll be something closer to 340whp/wtq which would put it at 400+ crank hp/tq range. Of course this only applies if it at the same boost level (8psi).
I dunno how to say this, but this kit is kindof awesome and will put down unbelievable numbers. I'll wait till they get the dynojet dyno but the gains are exactly what I was expecting to hear, and I was more optimistic than most of the other people were :eeps:

[TxZHP04]

ATP have declared that they will release the Kit by October and 5k is better than 6.5k for a few pipelines and a blower and injectors and intercooler is too much.

Still has absolutely nothing to do with the AA TS. Let's try to stay on topic here. Feel free to start a new thread if you want to talk about something else.

[Active Autowerke]

Still has absolutely nothing to do with the AA TS. Let's try to stay on topic here. Feel free to start a new thread if you want to talk about something else.

Thanks :thumbsup:

[Active Autowerke]

I haven't heard from the cat in a couple days (notice I'm not really available myself) but he sounded pretty happy when he called me yesterday.

He said you scared the crap out of him :lmao:


:rolleyes:

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

:rolleyes:
:rofl: In a good way of course.

[WillE46]

Are you guys going to wait till this ZHP project is complete before you begin working on the TS kits for 325s, 323s, 330s, and M3s or have you already begun? I am, naturally, really only interested in the 323 kits.

[UniqueEDesign]

So Friday was a fun day for us at UED!

Big :thumbup: to Juha for making the caravan trip down fun following his S/C beast! He also got some great shots of the ZHP which should follow.

We arrived at AA around 12 and found out they had been putting a bunch of overtime hours the night before and got ZHP on the dyno :yikes:

Immediately, the first thought was to see what type of numbers it was putting down and also to see the A/F ratios.

Even though I can't release the numbers :shhh:, we were pretty excited to see the torque curve so linear!

To our surprise, AA had a few special things lined up for us as well!

First, they added an AA Exhaust :drool: and we saw the HP numbers go up about 8-10 RWHP. With some headers and possible some cams, we should also be able to squeeze some more power out of the setup!

Secondly, we decided to take it off the dyno and take it for a spin :craig:
Immediate reactions included the sound of the blower as well as the smooth delivery of power.
As our data showed on the dyno, we were getting almost peak TRQ at about 3500 RPM, and this was also very evident immediately.
The torque goes on and on all through the RPM band, and the car just pulled forever.
3rd gear pulls from about 2k RPM were among the most favorite as the car would take off with ease.

Though a preliminary review, more info should be coming soon!

The project is going smoothly and I just wanted to keep everyone posted and help possible get the thread back on topic!

Just for kicks, here is a short video put together of the ZHP on the dyno- Project ZHP Dyno1 (http://uniqueeurodesign.com/uedvideos/Project_zhp_dyno1.html)

Obv the numbers were edited out of the video so please no flaming on the short video or the fact that the numbers were left out. :thumbsup:

Furthermore, on top of Project ZHP that UED partnered with AA to get to the market, we also are your number one source for all of your Active Tuning products! We are very pleased with this new partnership and look forward to serving the community!

:thumbsup: to Omar, Karl and the whole AA team!

Hope this update gives some of you a good feel on how the car pulls (more vids were made and should come up shortly)!

[6ick6ix6peed]

Obv the numbers were edited out of the video so please no flaming on the short video or the fact that the numbers were left out. :thumbsup:
HA HA I saw the numbers :eeps: and Im keeping my mouth shut. Keep up the good work.:thumbsup:

[funkyman]

I've always wondered why the numbers for BMW S/C kits were so low. My thoughts were always that if you are not getting a bare minimum of a 100whp and 100wtq gain @ 8psi, it's not worth the money (especially for these ridiculous $5K plus kits). I guess I'm too used to turbocharger systems on Japanese cars that can be had for 3gs or less and give you gains of 100+ whp easily and safely.

I agree entirely!!!!!:lmao:

[supark]

awesome to hear another company working on a twin screw - what kind of price range is it gonna be in?

[UniqueEDesign]

awesome to hear another company working on a twin screw - what kind of price range is it gonna be in?
I would have to say it is going to be close to the E36 Twin Screw Kit that is already on the market- around 5900 for the Stage 1 kit. However, it is still slightly too early to know for sure :thumbup:

[derek80]

:woot:
i know what you're up to...:shhh:

[funkyman]

6500usd for 100hp is a wripp off to be honest and we havent included installation.Don`t you wish you could drop in a chevy v8 in the hood of an E46.:lmao: :thumbsup: :ben:

[hookem12387]

6500usd for 100hp is a wripp off to be honest and we havent included installation.Don`t you wish you could drop in a chevy v8 in the hood of an E46.:lmao: :thumbsup: :ben:
People have done it to an e36 and e30's. I bet someone could do it. But it's not what this thread is about.

[russ330]

6500usd for 100hp is a wripp off to be honest and we havent included installation.Don`t you wish you could drop in a chevy v8 in the hood of an E46.:lmao: :thumbsup: :ben:
Welcome to the world of BMW tuning. ;) That's just the way it is and that's pretty much standard issue pricing for most of the kits out there. Gotta pay to play, only the person writing the cheque can say if it's "worth it" or not.

BTW - I know there was some company that was dropping LS1's (that's the Camaro engine right?) into E36's, I can't recall if they ever did it for E46's too.

[funkyman]

Hey i would be really greatfull if you can do some research and find out for me pls,honestly.Do you know if it was like an Engine exchange or not.That would be awsome man.Can you imagine a supercharged Lt1 in a e46.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Search for Nash, and Vorshlag. Both have/are working on E36 kits. E46 would be a lot more electronics.

[zulu4]

I would have to say it is going to be close to the E36 Twin Screw Kit that is already on the market- around 5900 for the Stage 1 kit. However, it is still slightly too early to know for sure :thumbup:

will stage 1 come with an intercooler?

[Active Autowerke]

6500usd for 100hp is a wripp off to be honest and we havent included installation.Don`t you wish you could drop in a chevy v8 in the hood of an E46.:lmao: :thumbsup: :ben:

Maybe you should stop filling this thread with your senseless post. :shhh:

[Active Autowerke]

JDM3
"Why privately Stimpee this is a forum for BMW fanatics RIGHT , if you have noticed my posts have all been Tech question , replies , and a few minor replies to some flaming fanatics that are simply angry that I am posting these questions at AA and Im sure they have some sort of connection with AA . So can you kindly answer my question ?"


"Here is my take on what you say, whether AA likes it or not. MS45 is a load based software, you can't just go in and change fuel and ignition maps like you could in MSS54, 43, 42, 41, etc. They say they have been working on the TS a whole THREE weeks... wow, thats fast R&D and the timing is amazing. If AA had MS45 load limitations figured out already, they would have had a ZHP Rotrex-based kit out a long time ago. I'm just saying it doesnt happen this fast."

"Or maybe its the S52 kit with very minor modifications bolted up to an M54 and running no to little boost at all to make a pretty video. I could bolt up a TS and leave the bypass open and make a video too and you would all think its "running". I see no boost gauge and I see a video where the CEL is conveniently blocked by a steering wheel or sun the entire time while the car doesn't really pull hard as it should. Matter of fact, it looks stock to me. Changing the redline to 7000 and adjusting throttle reaction is a lot easier than full load tuning of MS45, so those points mean little."


"I am sorry if I came on a bit hard, I have no problem with Stimpee, AA or ESS for that matter. I am just so sick and tired of aftermarket companies that just slap on a piece of boost hardware on a very advanced machine and say: we are almost done, just the software left so next week all should be good. The software IS the task! Don't fool yourself, the hardware of a simple SC kit is quite easy to make. Getting it to run correctly is the hard part, but somehow everybody seems to forget that. Why can't all the Mert's and Horsepowerfreaks of the world just accept that their product is FAR from finished, or simply document that it works with a simple dyno w/AF logging? When it comes to ESS and AA I consider these companies in the category "might very well make it work", but until it works and you can document that it works (dyno!!!) then don't say : We should be done in a few days, we just have the software left.."

Paragraph below was breif response from Unique Euro Design.

For the record the tuning isn't finished yet. That doesn't mean that its not doable. The real problem with MS45 that was pointed out to me is that you can't change the tune without pulling the computer from the car, meaning each adjustment you make takes about 5 times as long. Coupled with the much larger database of charts, the MS45 is a ***** to tune.



Here is a response from our management regarding various post that were made in this thread.

JDM3 This is an Active response to clarify your questions, and a general update on the E46 MS45 330i SC. System


You are very correct in several statements and very knowledgeable about the tuning involved for the MS45. It is a ***** to tune, and truthfully we probably did over 200 ECU flashes to finally get there. It did not come easy.(after several 16 & 20 hr.days). We are pleased however that an educated member of the public appreciate the effort and cost involved to get this done. Having educated customers like you, would truly put Active as a leader of BMW forced induction systems, and would make our job a lot easier. It's so refreshing to hear someone think as we do in developing a product for the BMW marque. We invite you to come with all camera equipment and take what's necessary to post back home. I will personally give you our red carpet treatment, as I know it speaks volumes if you accepted and came to Active in Miami.


We do not want to be compared to the Mert's and horsepower freaks with incomplete systems on the market, and we do understand the frustration and disappointment that goes with it. Active will never say we are close and coming soon, unless we mean that. We do not have any incomplete, (box of parts system on the market). and never will. Are you aware and know we have a turbo system for the E46 330i for a year+? Working with software and dyno figures? Hardware for the non M E46 MS45 325i& 330i has always been available, and you are correct we were not ready with software. Did we promise it? NO.. However,... It will now be available shortly for those Rotrex based systems also..

We might have only started this project 3 weeks ago, but the homework has been ongoing a long time before and our engineering staff are now ready and confident to tackle this project. With successful results this makes us look fast and amazing when ready to fire the shot...Correct?.. Please be also assured there are no CEL whatever or soft codes during this test period and it's still ongoing. Let us just say that Active has the only working system making power over 5 psi boost (9psi to be exact) and no CEL. with no errors. Is it otherwise? This is not marketing hype, we are again just making fantasy a reality. We have always delivered as promised.

We do not want to seem arrogant, and forward, and we apologize for the inuendos and slant towards the competition in this thread. It is not our way to do business.

Karl Hugh.

[david05111]

Great Response Active and thanks for the updates...I am planning a trip down to AA in the next few weeks to see the kits and get ready to put my order in.

I was wondering if your engineers had a take on a question I've been having some trouble with. I'm going with a catless exhaust system so naturally I need to use an O2 sim. to get around the CEL problem. I've read in the forums that alot of O2 sims clash with the software developed in conjunction with these SC systems. Is there any specific unit that Active and its engineers would recommend for this? I'm planning on getting a TS system from you guys and I just don't want to have any problems with that CEL..

[Activ3]

Great Response Active and thanks for the updates...I am planning a trip down to AA in the next few weeks to see the kits and get ready to put my order in.

I was wondering if your engineers had a take on a question I've been having some trouble with. I'm going with a catless exhaust system so naturally I need to use an O2 sim. to get around the CEL problem. I've read in the forums that alot of O2 sims clash with the software developed in conjunction with these SC systems. Is there any specific unit that Active and its engineers would recommend for this? I'm planning on getting a TS system from you guys and I just don't want to have any problems with that CEL..



Active has the capability to just pretty much wipe out the sensors in the software. So you won't even need a simulator. They write it in the software so that no CEL is thrown.

[UniqueEDesign]

A big :thumbsup: to Karl for taking the time to actually address the issues and follow up with the community!

Great Response Active and thanks for the updates...I am planning a trip down to AA in the next few weeks to see the kits and get ready to put my order in.

I was wondering if your engineers had a take on a question I've been having some trouble with. I'm going with a catless exhaust system so naturally I need to use an O2 sim. to get around the CEL problem. I've read in the forums that alot of O2 sims clash with the software developed in conjunction with these SC systems. Is there any specific unit that Active and its engineers would recommend for this? I'm planning on getting a TS system from you guys and I just don't want to have any problems with that CEL..

We are removing the cats on the ZHP and were actually just discussing this issue last week. However, they are going to be make an adjustment which is available in the MS45 software that will allow it to run without cats and without CEL. The only other option I believe that is available would be to extend the sensors.

[crazy01]

I am running catless for almost 2 months now and have not had a CEL yet. Technick headers and Eisenmann exhaust and am using no simulators.

[david05111]

A big :thumbsup: to Karl for taking the time to actually address the issues and follow up with the community!



We are removing the cats on the ZHP and were actually just discussing this issue last week. However, they are going to be make an adjustment which is available in the MS45 software that will allow it to run without cats and without CEL. The only other option I believe that is available would be to extend the sensors.

Excellent information! Thanks for the clarification!

Thanks also goes to Activ3 for your information!

[Juha 323Ci]

This is why I love Active Autowerke!!:thumbsup:

They might not always be the cheapest but they always deliver what they promise!!!:bow:

I saw this car on their dyno last Friday and all I can say is, WOW. That thing is gonna eat M3's for breakfast...

[OCswedishM3]

JDM3
"Why privately Stimpee this is a forum for BMW fanatics RIGHT , if you have noticed my posts have all been Tech question , replies , and a few minor replies to some flaming fanatics that are simply angry that I am posting these questions at AA and Im sure they have some sort of connection with AA . So can you kindly answer my question ?"


"Here is my take on what you say, whether AA likes it or not. MS45 is a load based software, you can't just go in and change fuel and ignition maps like you could in MSS54, 43, 42, 41, etc. They say they have been working on the TS a whole THREE weeks... wow, thats fast R&D and the timing is amazing. If AA had MS45 load limitations figured out already, they would have had a ZHP Rotrex-based kit out a long time ago. I'm just saying it doesnt happen this fast."

"Or maybe its the S52 kit with very minor modifications bolted up to an M54 and running no to little boost at all to make a pretty video. I could bolt up a TS and leave the bypass open and make a video too and you would all think its "running". I see no boost gauge and I see a video where the CEL is conveniently blocked by a steering wheel or sun the entire time while the car doesn't really pull hard as it should. Matter of fact, it looks stock to me. Changing the redline to 7000 and adjusting throttle reaction is a lot easier than full load tuning of MS45, so those points mean little."


"I am sorry if I came on a bit hard, I have no problem with Stimpee, AA or ESS for that matter. I am just so sick and tired of aftermarket companies that just slap on a piece of boost hardware on a very advanced machine and say: we are almost done, just the software left so next week all should be good. The software IS the task! Don't fool yourself, the hardware of a simple SC kit is quite easy to make. Getting it to run correctly is the hard part, but somehow everybody seems to forget that. Why can't all the Mert's and Horsepowerfreaks of the world just accept that their product is FAR from finished, or simply document that it works with a simple dyno w/AF logging? When it comes to ESS and AA I consider these companies in the category "might very well make it work", but until it works and you can document that it works (dyno!!!) then don't say : We should be done in a few days, we just have the software left.."

Paragraph below was breif response from Unique Euro Design.

For the record the tuning isn't finished yet. That doesn't mean that its not doable. The real problem with MS45 that was pointed out to me is that you can't change the tune without pulling the computer from the car, meaning each adjustment you make takes about 5 times as long. Coupled with the much larger database of charts, the MS45 is a ***** to tune.



Here is a response from our management regarding various post that were made in this thread.

JDM3 This is an Active response to clarify your questions, and a general update on the E46 MS45 330i SC. System


You are very correct in several statements and very knowledgeable about the tuning involved for the MS45. It is a ***** to tune, and truthfully we probably did over 200 ECU flashes to finally get there. It did not come easy.(after several 16 & 20 hr.days). We are pleased however that an educated member of the public appreciate the effort and cost involved to get this done. Having educated customers like you, would truly put Active as a leader of BMW forced induction systems, and would make our job a lot easier. It's so refreshing to hear someone think as we do in developing a product for the BMW marque. We invite you to come with all camera equipment and take what's necessary to post back home. I will personally give you our red carpet treatment, as I know it speaks volumes if you accepted and came to Active in Miami.


We do not want to be compared to the Mert's and horsepower freaks with incomplete systems on the market, and we do understand the frustration and disappointment that goes with it. Active will never say we are close and coming soon, unless we mean that. We do not have any incomplete, (box of parts system on the market). and never will. Are you aware and know we have a turbo system for the E46 330i for a year+? Working with software and dyno figures? Hardware for the non M E46 MS45 325i& 330i has always been available, and you are correct we were not ready with software. Did we promise it? NO.. However,... It will now be available shortly for those Rotrex based systems also..

We might have only started this project 3 weeks ago, but the homework has been ongoing a long time before and our engineering staff are now ready and confident to tackle this project. With successful results this makes us look fast and amazing when ready to fire the shot...Correct?.. Please be also assured there are no CEL whatever or soft codes during this test period and it's still ongoing. Let us just say that Active has the only working system making power over 5 psi boost (9psi to be exact) and no CEL. with no errors. Is it otherwise? This is not marketing hype, we are again just making fantasy a reality. We have always delivered as promised.

We do not want to seem arrogant, and forward, and we apologize for the inuendos and slant towards the competition in this thread. It is not our way to do business.

Karl Hugh.

This is why i call you at work sometimes...stand up guy:thumbsup:

[david05111]

Hey Active-

I came up with another question for you. Is this going to come with an oil cooler like in your centrifugal setup?

[hookem12387]

Hey Active-

I came up with another question for you. Is this going to come with an oil cooler like in your centrifugal setup?
I'm probably wrong, but for some reason I thought that it wasn't necessary with a twin screw.

[UniqueEDesign]

Hey Active-

I came up with another question for you. Is this going to come with an oil cooler like in your centrifugal setup?

The centri S/C requires oil to keep the blower running efficiently and due to its stand off nature by design, needs an external method to keep operating temperatures down when running higher boost as the oil viscosity gets to a non preventative state when at high temp.

The Twin Screw S/C by design can encorporate Laminova cores which actually slide into the manifold and act as a water/air cooler. This would be the main difference as the TS has the ability to integrate this cooler when at a Stage 2 boost level.

We also integrated a front mount heat exchanger to offer air/air cooling, and are currently working on getting the chemical cooling done with Water/Alcohol injection.

That would handle the info for the S/C oil cooler, but I think I am going to have to talk Karl into even more work on another project and get an engine oil cooler for those hot track days.
:thumbsup:

[vaio76109]

That would handle the info for the S/C oil cooler, but I think I am going to have to talk Karl into even more work on another project and get an engine oil cooler for those hot track days.
:thumbsup:
Bish I swear!!! Why don't you get Kosei's next? :lmao: JK

[Active Autowerke]

Great Response Active and thanks for the updates...I am planning a trip down to AA in the next few weeks to see the kits and get ready to put my order in.

I was wondering if your engineers had a take on a question I've been having some trouble with. I'm going with a catless exhaust system so naturally I need to use an O2 sim. to get around the CEL problem. I've read in the forums that alot of O2 sims clash with the software developed in conjunction with these SC systems. Is there any specific unit that Active and its engineers would recommend for this? I'm planning on getting a TS system from you guys and I just don't want to have any problems with that CEL..

Let me know when you are ready and like a couple other posted we have the capability to modify for you software to a "race (off road) version" with no CEL for being catless.

[Active Autowerke]

This is why i call you at work sometimes...stand up guy:thumbsup:

p.s. Your stuff is on the way ... sorry about the delay..

BACK ON TOPIC.

[OCswedishM3]

p.s. Your stuff is on the way ... sorry about the delay..

BACK ON TOPIC.

Thanx..no worries...good to see the progress with the TS...My co-worker that i got the software and exhaust for has a couple questions about the TS...when u bring this to the market there will be a very happy BMW community...

[WillE46]

I asked this before but didnt receive a reply:

Are you currently working on the TS for other E46 models like the 323? If not, do you plan on doing so and when?

[DaN_the_MaN]

Sorry if I missed a post wiht this info. What are the benefits of a Twin Screw over your current Rotrex charger?

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Sorry if I missed a post wiht this info. What are the benefits of a Twin Screw over your current Rotrex charger?
Because a twin screw is a postive displacement type of supercharger, it is capable of a much higher boost pressure, and reaches boost at a faster - more linear rate.

This leads to higher levels of torque throughout the power band and a much more naturally aspirated linear power curve. A centrifugal can in many cases get a better peak horsepower value, but it almost never provides anything close to the rest of the power band.

-Tyler

[Active Autowerke]

Not a problem if they market the mod for off-road use only (see post #184).

Thanks for clairfying that issue.

Jdm3, Stay posted.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Not a problem if they market the mod for off-road use only (see post #184).
Almost all the tuning companies sell track pipe kits, headers, etc. and market them as a track use item.

[Activ3]

I asked this before but didnt receive a reply:

Are you currently working on the TS for other E46 models like the 323? If not, do you plan on doing so and when?



I'm pretty sure they'll be doing the other e46's as well, since hardware is pretty much the same.

[hookem12387]

I might have missed it, but what is the expected cost of this kit? To put down a deposit I would expect people would want to know final cost.

[WillE46]

Thank you hookem12387 for getting back on topic. And, yes, I too would like to know actual set figures before i'd be willing to place a deposit.

[schutney]

sorry if this has not been answered yet, but ESS has said that they will have their release for the 323s, 325s, etc. a couple months after the initial release of the 330s, do you guys expect the same sort of launch date for the rest us inferior e46 owners

[david05111]

Hey Active-

Thanks for the information! I would be interested in putting a deposit down on a kit, but I really need to know the final pricing before I do. Not to mention, I still want to see what stage kit I'm going to get, and without dyno numbers, thats hard to do.

One more thing about emissions (I dont want to start a war here). What does Florida law say about emissions requirments? I know theres no inspection, but are cats necessary in Fla?

[rwalker]

One more thing about emissions (I dont want to start a war here). What does Florida law say about emissions requirments? I know theres no inspection, but are cats necessary in Fla?

It's actually a federal law that a car that came with cats has to keep its cats.

[KOTHB]

Deposit? Maybe.

What is the expected release date for the ZHP kit? Are the "stages" akin to that which ESS has mentioned? What is the anticipated retail price of the respective stages?

[ADA]

so what is the main difference between the AA and the ESS Twin screw?

Advantages and disadvantages?

[Tim30250]

It's actually a federal law that a car that came with cats has to keep its cats.

This is true, but emissions is always enforced (or not) by the state you live in. And if they don't check emissions then I don't see how you would be found guilty of violating the federal law. Unless you traveled out of state and had the extremely rare misfortune of getting stopped at one of those roadside safety/emissions checks that I've heard about. Not an issue in Florida though, I wouldn't think.

[WillE46]

so what is the main difference between the AA and the ESS Twin screw?

Advantages and disadvantages?

Since both kits arent available to the public yet, I don't think that we can make a fair comparison. As of now, it's all speculation.

[bigjae1976]

Honestly, I have tried to ignore everything you have been saying. Most of your posts lack any sort of intelligence. You type about AA as if you are bitter about something. I am willing to send you a Tshirt or Hat for free to help make up for any wrongdoing in the past.

So if we hate on AA, we can get free stuff? Kewl.

I hate AA...now send me a T-shirt:)

Seriously, I'm stoked about the TS. Hopefully I can get one late next year. BTW, can you give an estimate on the install time for the TS stage II? I want to see if its possible to take a short vaca in FL while I'm getting a SC installed.

[Tim30250]

:)

BTW, how long is the estimated install time?


That was answered several times in the other TS thread. It's roughly 6 hours for the stage 1. Add 2-3 more hours (or however long it would take you) to remove the bumper and mount an intercooler for stage 2 and up. I imagine this TS kit, being similar in concept and design, would also be similar in installation time.

[bigjae1976]

That was answered several times in the other TS thread. It's roughly 6 hours for the stage 1. Add 2-3 more hours (or however long it would take you) to remove the bumper and mount an intercooler for stage 2 and up. I imagine this TS kit, being similar in concept and design, would also be similar in installation time.

Thanks...I know I should have searched. :slap:

[BimmaBwoy]

I've been fortunate to meet Stimpee and he's convinced me to go TS however my issue lies with the M56 motor (SULEV) that my 325 has. Will this TS supercharger fit on my 325. I understand that both Active and ESS are currently working on the software for their version of the TS. Do you guys @ Active know as of yet how it will hold up against the Steptronic/Automatic Tranny? I have faith in you guys as I have already seen what Stimpee's m3 can do in person and my jaw just drops everytime I see his car accelerate (it's a friggin beast). And as everyone else has already asked what's the approx cost. I've decided to stop modding & begin saving till this is released.

[Active Autowerke]

****UPDATE*****

Hello board,

We finalized the software today and got some pretty good #'s out of the SC kit. We will be delivering car tomorrow for testing by owner himself. We will also have dynojet #'s and pricing available really soon. Stay tuned.....:thumbsup:

[AlexM105]

Nice. :hi:

[UniqueEDesign]

Hey Guys,

Omar beat me to the punch, but we have been ecstatic about getting the car back!!

AA has done a great job on all their products thus far and this surely will not be anything less than that!

Getting even more power than last week when the car already felt like a monster, is really impressive!

The whole UED team is very excited to be getting our ZHP back and to get it ready for some track testing in a month or so!

Non-M Owner Fanatics- this is your first warning to get ready (financially and mentally) to have the most powerful, reliable, supercharger kit on the market!
;)

The second warning will be the dyno numbers, which will speak for themselves :shhh:

We will try to get some brief coverage later tomorrow evening showing some highway pulls.

:thumbup:

Garrett | Unique Euro Design

[AlexM105]

We will try to get some brief coverage later tomorrow evening showing some highways pulls. :thumbup:
I look forward to seeing that!

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

I look forward to seeing that!

Along with the planned license suspensions :eeps:

[Active Autowerke]

It's Dynojet Day....:yikes:

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

It's Dynojet Day....:yikes:

Garrett and I placed bets last night....you guys better not fail me :craig:

[k3vkoh]

We're waiting...Remember to post the results, or else I won't forgive u Garrett! :rofl:

[Active Autowerke]

Hello

Here is a pic from the dyno chart from todays run. The conditions were terrible, it was around 92.1 degrees F and we only had a couple small fans.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/aatuning/zhptwinscrew.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/aatuning/zhptwinscrewc1.jpg

ummm NO CELS, 9 lbs of booost, and instant torque.. Yes we did it..:thumbsup:

[GBX330ci]

Nice. Congrats! Is it a problem that you're running so lean at the beginning? Also, wouldn't you rather see the AFR's flat at 12? Everyone seems to have their own way of thinking when it comes to AFR tuning...

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Garrett won the bet :(

[ikeupinya]

Saw & HEARD the dynojet last week: Sound very promising!!! :clap: :bow: :clap:

[Turboo]

Any word on pricing...?

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Any word on pricing...?

Thinking same pricing as the E36 kits last I heard :dunno:

[330 HRE]

Will there be a time period of a long term testing on how reliable the kit would be? It just seemed...speculation only....that after the software is all done and said now, there won't be a period where there will be test to make sure it is bullet proof, but just sell to the public as a kit and it is all set good to go. Omar...please clarify for me..ya?

[TxZHP04]

What's going on between 3500 and 4000 rpm?

[jdm3]

Is it just me, or is this torque curve significantly lower than another M54B30 TS torque curve in this forum dynoed at 7PSI and without ZHP cams? Why is this?:hmm:

[Active Autowerke]

Nice. Congrats! Is it a problem that you're running so lean at the beginning? Also, wouldn't you rather see the AFR's flat at 12? Everyone seems to have their own way of thinking when it comes to AFR tuning...

There is several reasons it starts out with higher AFR's (NOT LEAN!) in the beginning. That is how SC cars from the factory are as well. I included a dyno chart of an E55 below. Please look at the a/f.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/aatuning/AFRafterpulleyandsoftware.jpg

p.s. You guys are making me work really hard.

[Active Autowerke]

Is it just me, or is this torque curve significantly lower than another M54B30 TS torque curve in this forum dynoed at 7PSI and without ZHP cams? Why is this?:hmm:

You need a new hobby.

[Active Autowerke]

Will there be a time period of a long term testing on how reliable the kit would be? It just seemed...speculation only....that after the software is all done and said now, there won't be a period where there will be test to make sure it is bullet proof, but just sell to the public as a kit and it is all set good to go. Omar...please clarify for me..ya?

Hey We agree completely. That is exactly why we have been testing for 1 month. The car has been driven from Miami to the Keys... you local guys know the distance, as well as your everyday city driving. The hardware has been tested for over a year on our previous twin screw projects.

The car will go back to the owner today for one week of your normal every day driving and then we will be good to go.

[Active Autowerke]

What's going on between 3500 and 4000 rpm?

It is what is referred to as Torque Management , a special feature on the "unique" MS45 ECU, it gets a lot more complicated but it does not affect driveability and is not noticeable while driving.

on 7 runs back to back each one was basically identical and we got a consistent 324+ rwhp.

[330 HRE]

Hey We agree completely. That is exactly why we have been testing for 1 month. The car has been driven from Miami to the Keys... you local guys know the distance, as well as your everyday city driving. The hardware has been tested for over a year on our previous twin screw projects.

The car will go back to the owner today for one week of your normal every day driving and then we will be good to go.


Hardware I am not worried about, it is just the software that I speculate about. One month with long driving is ok but I am looking to the future like 1 year later or so with the software, i am sure the software is optimized but just how exact is it. Was this the same style of tuning as the Rotrex s/c, one year on the hardware and about one month on software? If it is, then I don't have any issues getting a ts from you guys as the rotrex is proven to be a good kit.

[Active Autowerke]

Hardware I am not worried about, it is just the software that I speculate about. One month with long driving is ok but I am looking to the future like 1 year later or so with the software, i am sure the software is optimized but just how exact is it. Was this the same style of tuning as the Rotrex s/c, one year on the hardware and about one month on software? If it is, then I don't have any issues getting a ts from you guys as the rotrex is proven to be a good kit.

The computer itself is a lot more intelligent than previous BMW ECU's, we spent xxxxx amount of hours tuning and checking everything to make sure all aspects were covered. The testing is not going to stop and longevity of the software will not be a problem. We will continue testing over the upcoming months. Please understand that we would not release a kit to the public without being sure it is ready.

Luckily the car being tested belongs to one of your fellow E46 Fanatics, this was done on purpose to make sure you get feedback and all aspects of the kit from a somewhat unbiased source...

The tuning on the Rotrex units and TS units is similiar but once again I stress the MS45 ecu is extremely sophisticated and the smartest ECU to date for an E46 model, it is a 32 BIT processer opposed to a 16 BIT processor. It was not easy accomplishing this but once again neither was anything else we have done.:thumbsup:

[Active Autowerke]

Is it just me, or is this torque curve significantly lower than another M54B30 TS torque curve in this forum dynoed at 7PSI and without ZHP cams? Why is this?:hmm:

Im under the impression you will never be in the market for an FI kit for your car, but thats no problem.

I need you to do me a favor and link that famous dyno chart you are talking about so we can all see it and then we can speak about the differences..:)

[russ330]

There is several reasons it starts out with higher AFR's (NOT LEAN!) in the beginning. That is how SC cars from the factory are as well. I included a dyno chart of an E55 below. Please look at the a/f.


So... Other than factory cars come that way what are some of the other reasons?

p.s. You guys are making me work really hard.

I love siphoning free knowledge. Gimme what ya got. :craig:

[jdm3]

You need a new hobby.

Why? Because I am questioning why a 9PSI kit with hotter cams makes 38% less torque at 2500RPM than a competing 7PSI system? I thought this was what a TS was all about : TORQUE:buff:

So you have no plans of trying to elevate the stock 260ft/lbs torque limitation of MS45? I thought this torque limitation thing was the real challenge of a MS45 TS software?:dunno:

[TxZHP04]

It is what is referred to as Torque Management , a special feature on the "unique" MS45 ECU, it gets a lot more complicated but it does not affect driveability and is not noticeable while driving.

I am curious to learn more about this "special feature." My first thought looking at the dyno graph was that the torque/power dip looked a lot like the 4000 - 5000 rpm dip so many of us have been plagued with on our stock ZHPs... just seems to appear a little earlier and not last quite as long. I am particularly interested in this behavior as I am about to have my car in to have the 4k rpm dip fixed for the second time now. I thought BMW had fixed it the first time but the problem has returned now some 20k miles later... and it is VERY noticeable, even on my stock engine. Perhaps this "Torque Management" feature you mentioned is responsible for my current misery.

[stimpee]

Nice Job Fellas!

:D

As for testing, the durability testing need only be done for the software portion of the kit. The hardware changes from the E36 setup are nothing that would have an impact on long term durability or reliability of the kit.

Steve

[jdm3]

Im under the impression you will never be in the market for an FI kit for your car, but thats no problem.

I need you to do me a favor and link that famous dyno chart you are talking about so we can all see it and then we can speak about the differences..:)

I really dont have an idea who you are , I guess you must be Omar .
Now I know that you ( AA Tuning ) have had a few of my posts and anyone else that remotely says anything negative on this thread and other threads removed . If this thread gets removed by anyone then this whole thread is a bunch of lies , since I have posted my professional opinion and facts to you (AA) and fanatics and yet you have beat around the bush , also you and other AA fantaics have attacked me with the name calling etc , but please answer my question , if your not on here trying to sell a product ( just to make a sale ) and lying to us about it . I feal like you are being challenged by myself and others and yet you are not answering my question ( Mostly Tech question ) and the truth . So Omar or whoever you may be . Please answer my question , oh by the way again I have a fealing that you will contact the moderators or maybe Tim or someone else and try to get me banned or have my posts removed , but if you do then it proves me right that you ( AA Tuning ) are only on here trying to sell a product that is not what you claim it to be . Thats my challenge to you ( AA Tuning ) . Oh by the way I do have copies of these complete thread from the minute I posted on it until now .
Thank you and I hope to hear a proffesional answer not childish remarks . :thumbsup:


Please answer my question .

Is it just me, or is this torque curve significantly lower than another M54B30 TS torque curve in this forum dynoed at 7PSI and without ZHP cams? Why is this?


http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174773&d=1144547490

[Active Autowerke]

Why? Because I am questioning why a 9PSI kit with hotter cams makes 38% less torque at 2500RPM than a competing 7PSI system? I thought this was what a TS was all about : TORQUE:buff:

So you have no plans of trying to elevate the stock 260ft/lbs torque limitation of MS45? I thought this torque limitation thing was the real challenge of a MS45 TS software?:dunno:

You are a smart guy. Whoever is telling you to do this is also somewhat intelligent when it comes to this software stuff. I really wish they would post themselves... we know they have an account here.. am I wrong?

We are making 130+ hp over a stock ZHP, is that not good enough..

If you want to call the torque limitation a "real challenge" then I cant blame you.. it is rather difficult, but what you and your "friends" find difficult may not be so difficult to others.. with this said we are happy with the results and feel that these numbers make for a really good reliable "BOLT ON" KIT. Am I wrong...

[TxZHP04]

Nice Job Fellas!

:D

As for testing, the durability testing need only be done for the software portion of the kit. The hardware changes from the E36 setup are nothing that would have an impact on long term durability or reliability of the kit.

Steve

I agree with your comment regarding the kit but what about the car itself? What's to guarantee that just because there haven't been any problems on the e36 that there won't be any surprises with the e46?

[Active Autowerke]

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174773&d=1144547490


lol,

Why in the world does the torque on a twin screw fall of so much towards the end... must have forgotten to tighten up their Paint skills towards the end...jk

But seriously Yes Mr. JDM3 I am Omar, I still do not know your real name or who you are but lets diagnose your dyno charts...

First of all there is no HP mentioned.. but who cares that stuff isnt important..

Second of all.. Who cares about an A/F ratio, I guess that was not important either

Fourth of all... Do they change the redline to 5000 to maximize gains.. OMAR= Confused..

I hope you do not want to go any further into this topic...:rolleyes:

p.s. MANAGEMENT HAS OFFERED TO PAY FOR YOUR AIRFARE AND ALL EXPENSES IF YOU CAN PROVE US WRONG SOMEHOW BY COMING TO MIAMI.ALL WE NEED IS YOUR REAL NAME AND INFORMATION TO BOOK YOUR TICKET AND EVERYONE HERE ON THIS FORUM IS MY WITNESS THAT I OFFERED THIS TO YOU.
Ill even take you to the beach as well :)

[BMW_DK]

Omar, you didn't really answer his (JDM3) question, even though you asked for a link and got it. Why is that?

Edit: I see your point about the missing HP, perhaps you could use this: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174970&d=1144696165

The general perception I guess was that yours and ESS' products would deliver about the same level of performance. Yet there are indeed some differences, and that's between your 9PSI vs the ESS 7PSI kit.

Looking at the charts, they get 295 HP and 287ft/lbs @ 7 PSI, whilst you get 325 HP but "only" 269ft/lbs @ 9 PSI. So while the HP seems to follow the increase in boost, the torque is actually lower, and very low at 2500 RPMs.

Why is that? Is that because of the "challenge" that JDM3 is talking about?

Edit2: Nice offer, though I can't really see what that would bring, except perhaps for getting his real name and address.

Lastly. No I don't have anything to do with other tuners or companies within the BMW scene, and I am in the market for a kit.

[Active Autowerke]

Oh by the way I do have copies of these complete thread from the minute I posted on it until now .
Thank you and I hope to hear a proffesional answer not childish remarks . :thumbsup:


Please answer my question .

Is it just me, or is this torque curve significantly lower than another M54B30 TS torque curve in this forum dynoed at 7PSI and without ZHP cams? Why is this?


http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174773&d=1144547490

I answer the same way you post, everything you write surprised me, I just want to say I appreciate those of you who are posting these intelligent questions..

This is how Runfiles should look when something is consistent..
PLEASE IGNORE THE LIGHT PURPLE RUN THAT WAS FROM ANOTHER GUYS CAR DYNOED TODAY. THANKS


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/aatuning/twinscrewRUNFIles.jpg

[david05111]

Hey Omar-

Congrats on doing it! I can't wait to get a close up look at this kit!

What stage is the dyno posted earlier? Stage 2?

[TxZHP04]

Third of All.. the 1st run got 214 ft lbs of torque, the 8th run got 287 ft lbs of torque, and the 18th got 260 ft lbs of torque..

Actually, that dyno graph simply compares torque levels for stock, centri, and twin screw setups. Let's at least take the time to understand what we're looking at if we're going to go down this path...

Personally, I'm not going to buy one kit or the other just because it displays a higher peak number. Now that we're comparing dynos though, I do find it interesting that "theirs" doesn't display the torque dip I noticed in your dyno. Still don't understand this whole torque limitation concept well enough to pass judgement on this observation though.

[Active Autowerke]

Omar, you didn't really answer his (JDM3) question, even though you asked for a link and got it. Why is that?

Edit: I see your point about the missing HP, perhaps you could use this: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174970&d=1144696165

The general perception I guess was that yours and ESS' products would deliver about the same level of performance. Yet there are indeed some differences, and that's between your 9PSI vs the ESS 7PSI kit.

Looking at the charts, they get 295 HP and 287ft/lbs @ 7 PSI, whilst you get 325 HP but "only" 269ft/lbs @ 9 PSI. So while the HP seems to follow the increase in boost, the torque is actually lower, and very low at 2500 RPMs.

Why is that? Is that because of the "challenge" that JDM3 is talking about?

Edit2: Nice offer, though I can't really see what that would bring, except perhaps for getting his real name and address.

Lastly. No I don't have anything to do with other tuners or companies within the BMW scene, and I am in the market for a kit.

Fair Enough... The numbers we achieved are consistent with our E36 M3 TS kits, so we do not think there is an unusual problem.

No it is not because of the challenge. That challenge is not that big of challenge to be honest with you.

They might be using an extremely strong blower but I also noticed it was only made on one run, it is funny how the other runs have not be mentioned or how the torque fall off is not a problem, but oh well, I am only commenting on their kit because you guys are asking me to do so.

Our car pulls extremely strong all the way to 7000 rpm, and that is what we wanted. We got consistent numbers and the driveability is perfect to say the least.

Lastly I welcome your questions Sir, I do not feel that you are associated with anyone else in any way shape or form.. I am happy that you are prospective owner of a kit and I hope you become an owner one day to appreciate this new accomplishment.

[chisau]

It still amazes me that we still draw comparisons when we are obviously not comparing apples to apples. For 1, we can clearly see on AA's dyno the conditions at 92+ degrees and they made the statement that they were using small fans.. There is really no way we can come to any conclusions for the difference in torque unless we test the same cars, on the same day, same dyno, same conditions. For those who doubt AA, have you ever experienced the heat and humidity in So Florida in August??:nono:

At the end of the day there will always be someone ready to complain about something. At least we all have more options now than just cold air intakes, software, and exhausts systems that give a total of 10 hp like it used to be..

Congrats AA / Stimpee!!!:bow:



Omar, you didn't really answer his (JDM3) question, even though you asked for a link and got it. Why is that?

Edit: I see your point about the missing HP, perhaps you could use this: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174970&d=1144696165

The general perception I guess was that yours and ESS' products would deliver about the same level of performance. Yet there are indeed some differences, and that's between your 9PSI vs the ESS 7PSI kit.

Looking at the charts, they get 295 HP and 287ft/lbs @ 7 PSI, whilst you get 325 HP but "only" 269ft/lbs @ 9 PSI. So while the HP seems to follow the increase in boost, the torque is actually lower, and very low at 2500 RPMs.

Why is that? Is that because of the "challenge" that JDM3 is talking about?

Edit2: Nice offer, though I can't really see what that would bring, except perhaps for getting his real name and address.

Lastly. No I don't have anything to do with other tuners or companies within the BMW scene, and I am in the market for a kit.

[Tireux Roche]

Lastly I welcome your questions Sir, I do not feel that you are associated with anyone else in any way shape or form.. I am happy that you are prospective owner of a kit and I hope you become an owner one day to appreciate this new accomplishment.



Well said Omar.

[Active Autowerke]

Actually, that dyno graph simply compares torque levels for stock, centri, and twin screw setups. Let's at least take the time to understand what we're looking at if we're going to go down this path...

Personally, I'm not going to buy one kit or the other just because it displays a higher peak number. Now that we're comparing dynos though, I do find it interesting that "theirs" doesn't display the torque dip I noticed in your dyno. Still don't understand this whole torque limitation concept well enough to pass judgement on this observation though.

Thanks I appreciate you clarifying this.

They dont have a dip in their chart and we have a "dip" for a full ~500 rpms's. I can assure you that the chart I shared with everyone was 100% original, the best bet is to wait for feedback from the customer..

Let me clarify this ECU does not have torque limitation but better yet it has Torque Management... A very sophisticated part of this ECU that we have learned to work with to suit both our needs and the ECU's needs to make this SC system work properly.

[vaio76109]

Can someone explain this torque limitation thing? Why would the engine want to limit torque?

[Active Autowerke]

It still amazes me that we still draw comparisons when we are obviously not comparing apples to apples. For 1, we can clearly see on AA's dyno the conditions at 92+ degrees and they made the statement that they were using small fans.. There is really no way we can come to any conclusions for the difference in torque unless we test the same cars, on the same day, same dyno, same conditions. For those who doubt AA, have you ever experienced the heat and humidity in So Florida in August??:nono:

At the end of the day there will always be someone ready to complain about something. At least we all have more options now than just cold air intakes, software, and exhausts systems that give a total of 10 hp like it used to be..

Congrats AA / Stimpee!!!:bow:

Thanks for the kind (INTELLIGENT) words.. Bow Down to you sir. :bow:

[Active Autowerke]

Can someone explain this torque limitation thing? Why would the engine want to limit torque?

It is the ECU.. It is on most of the non M BMW cars.

[JCz04Bimmer]

It is the ECU.. It is on most of the non M BMW cars.
Get rid of it!

[Active Autowerke]

Get rid of it!

lol We teamed up with it. Trust me this car feels like a completely different monster over a stock car.. You guys are going to Love it.

[TxZHP04]

Can someone explain this torque limitation thing? Why would the engine want to limit torque?

Yes, can ANYONE provide some real details about this please?

A very similar dip in power irritates the crap out of me on my car and it is still stock. I was hoping the TS with its single stage intake and new software would eliminate this (since BMW hasn't been able to provide a permanent fix yet). If it's a permanent feature of my car then I may be considering a new car rather than a TS.

[Active Autowerke]

Edit: I see your point about the missing HP, perhaps you could use this: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174970&d=1144696165

Thanks for sharing the chart. Atleast we made more :craig: HP :craig:
Something to celebrate about..

Once again I stress that the car pulls strong all the way to redline. TS kits are supposed to have flat torque curves and a rising HP curve. We think we did a good job and we are happy with the outcome..

[vaio76109]

It is the ECU.. It is on most of the non M BMW cars.
Yes, but could you explain it please? Like its purpose...

[Active Autowerke]

Yes, can ANYONE provide some real details about this please?

A very similar dip in power irritates the crap out of me on my car and it is still stock. I was hoping the TS with its single stage intake and new software would eliminate this (since BMW hasn't been able to provide a permanent fix yet). If it's a permanent feature of my car then I may be considering a new car rather than a TS.

I INVITE JDM3 TO COME AND EXPLAIN THIS. As soon as he is finished Karl will come on and correct his mistakes and explain it correctly.:thumbsup:

[TxZHP04]

I INVITE JDM3 TO COME AND EXPLAIN THIS. As soon as he is finished Karl will come on and correct his mistakes and explain it correctly.:thumbsup:

Way to avoid the question....

[stimpee]

In laymen's terms, when you move the throttle pedal a certain amount, the ECU considers that a "request for torque". The amount you depress the throttle indicates how much torque you are requesting. The ECU then opens the throttle the appropriate amount to provide the amount of torque you requested.

When you add a supercharger to the engine, and go through the above process, the engine produces WAY more torque than the ECU expected. The ECU KNOWS that the engine is producing more torque than expected, so it closes the throttle until the amount of torque produced, equals what the ECU thinks you were requesting, based on the stock understanding of throttle position vs torque requested. So, you add boost to the engine, and you can stand on the throttle pedal all the way through the floor, and the ECU will sense too much torque, and close the throttle back down until you are at, or near, a basically Normally aspirated amount of WOT torque.

So, to make the SC work with that type of engine management, you have to rewrite all of that to get it in line with what the SC can produce.

I probably butchered the crap out of that, but you get what you pay for when it comes to explanations!!

:D

Steve

[stimpee]

As for WHY do they do this?

1) Drive by wire - safety and fail-safe
2) DSC
3) The future is engines without throttles
4) emissions
5) Management of torque to keep people from breaking stuff like trannies, axles, and subframes

etc etc etc

[JCz04Bimmer]

lol We teamed up with it. Trust me this car feels like a completely different monster over a stock car.. You guys are going to Love it.

Heh heh. Don't worry, I have every bit of confidence that you guys accomodated this "feature" in the ECU. There was a reason why I jumped on your guys' software deal last month. The TS system might be in my car in a year or two. By then, all kinks will be realized and worked out and I can put a very smooth, very well done s/c kit in my car :) Long term, I know, but hey, its all about timing.

[TxZHP04]

In laymen's terms, when you move the throttle pedal a certain amount, the ECU considers that a "request for torque". The amount you depress the throttle indicates how much torque you are requesting. The ECU then opens the throttle the appropriate amount to provide the amount of torque you requested.

When you add a supercharger to the engine, and go through the above process, the engine produces WAY more torque than the ECU expected. The ECU KNOWS that the engine is producing more torque than expected, so it closes the throttle until the amount of torque produced, equals what the ECU thinks you were requesting, based on the stock understanding of throttle position vs torque requested. So, you add boost to the engine, and you can stand on the throttle pedal all the way through the floor, and the ECU will sense too much torque, and close the throttle back down until you are at, or near, a basically Normally aspirated amount of WOT torque.

So, to make the SC work with that type of engine management, you have to rewrite all of that to get it in line with what the SC can produce.

I probably butchered the crap out of that, but you get what you pay for when it comes to explanations!!

:D

Steve


Thanks, Steve. Very informative. I was hoping to somehow be able to tie the explanation to the problem I'm having with a stock engine but a stock engine shouldn't be producing more torque than expected.

[jdm3]

and the ECU will sense too much torque, and close the throttle back down until you are at, or near, a basically Normally aspirated amount of WOT torque.

Funny thing that the MS45 factory torque limitation is set at aprox 260ft/lbs, and your curves has +- this number all the way to redline. Maybe you don't quite understand how it works? A proper TS setup will have an almost identical torque curve shape as stock with the addition of the extra TS flat power addition all the way through.

From my calculations a proper TS 9PSI kit on a M54B30 with ZHP cams and a properly reprogrammed torque limitation should make around 330ft/lbs max.

Also, there is a reason BMW put the torque max a lot higher than stock max torque. It is so nobody should ever touch it as it would feel like you drove a kangaroo when you hit it. I know this since my earlier A3 1.8 Turbo did the exact same thing when I tried to boost to 15PSI on stock software. Once proper software with torque limitations raised was in it drove perfectly smooth with smooth and strong torque curves in the mid range.

Also running 16:1+17:1 AF ratio from 2-3K with a TS is a long way from the E55's 13:1 and down, actually it is the difference between perfection and a broken engine.:yikes:

What I am saying is that I'm sick and tired of everybody rushing unfinished products to market, be it AA, Technik, ESS, VF or Horsepowerfreaks. We deserve close to perfection for our hard earned dollars, nothing less!

[Active Autowerke]

Way to avoid the question....

I will try my best to explain how this works without giving away too many little secrets that we have discovered while tuning this car.


The MS45 DME is designed to manage the power of the engine by way of calculating torque.Yes, the DME actually has it's own little dynamometer that can measure torque!! We see this on our scanner when looking at the live data stream, quite impressive!


So when you press that thing we all know as the gas pedal, we are actually asking for torque, how much? Well that just depends on what the engine is capable of and what was actually programmed into the ecu by BMW. We are actually reprogramming how the torque is delivered with the TS, not a very easy task when you have thousands of maps to crack into.


So for example, if you press the throttle and request 150Nm of Torque and the motor will produce 180, the DME will first close the throttle to give you the target torque, if the throttle is not sufficient to manage it to that level then it will intervene further by reducing the ignition timing. Now you have to understand that this is happening incredibly faster than any other previous DME's that we are accustomed to. This is a 32 bit processor vs. the older 16 bit processors like the MS42,43... So we have to think outside of the usual box we are accustomed to, we are used to thinking that no matter what , the gas pedal is directly connected to the throttle body.Not so with this MS45 DME, So in a nut shell here is how it works:


TORQUE REQUEST>>>>>TORQUE MANAGEMENT>>>> TORQUE LIMIT INTERVENTION ( if needed)


Torque limit is hardly used unless the torque asked for is way too much for the motor or if the torque developed is way too much for the request.


So if we had a situation whereby we accelerated in a wet road and the tires spun easily causing the torque developed to jump up quickly as in the case of the twin screw, we would end up in a situation where we sort of caused the torque developed to be managed whether we like it or not. This may be a good thing because it can save drive train, it can help as traction control somewhat.... We believe that is why so many 330i ZHP cars have this dip that everyone is talking about. THIS IS THE FUTURE and it is here to stay!!!!!


The new 335i will surely have this built into it, so adding on bigger turbos, turning up the boost and exhaust upgrades will do nothing unless the DME is reprogrammed to re-manage the torque.


Bottom line: to get any power form the hardware up grades one has to : REMAP THE DME TO RE-MANAGE THE TORQUE!!!!!!!

KARL HUGH

[Active Autowerke]

Funny thing that the MS45 factory torque limitation is set at aprox 260ft/lbs, and your curves has +- this number all the way to redline. Maybe you don't quite understand how it works? A proper TS setup will have an almost identical torque curve shape as stock with the addition of the extra TS flat power addition all the way through.

From my calculations a proper TS 9PSI kit on a M54B30 with ZHP cams and a properly reprogrammed torque limitation should make around 330ft/lbs max.

Also, there is a reason BMW put the torque max alot higher than stock torque. It is so nobody should ever touch it as it would feel like you drove a kangaroo when you hit it. I know this since my earlier A3 1.8 Turbo did the exact same thing when I tried to boost to 15PSI on stock software. Once proper software with torque limitations raised was in it drove perfectly smooth with smooth and strong torque curves in the mid range.

Also running 16:1+17:1 AF ratio from 2-3K with a TS is a long way from the E55's 13:1 and down, actually it is the difference between perfection and a broken engine.:yikes:

E46 M3- Everyone said it couldnt be done and everyone doubted us- 140 kits worldwide and growing.

Several E46 SC kits on Market

Several E36 Turbo Kits

Now we defied all odds.

I will respond to this last question and that will be it unless I feel it is necessary to reply. We did not say it was identical we said it was an example of how it starts out with higher a/f's and comes down a bit...

When you decide not to be a coward and the person behind your posts comes out then I will reply to you.

What is the internet coming to.... I hope you really dont consider yourself a man. Yes aggressive but it happens.:hi:

[Active Autowerke]

What I am saying is that I'm sick and tired of everybody rushing unfinished products to market, be it AA, Technik, ESS, VF or Horsepowerfreaks. We deserve close to perfection for our hard earned dollars, nothing less!


No comment..

[bigjae1976]

p.s. MANAGEMENT HAS OFFERED TO PAY FOR YOUR AIRFARE AND ALL EXPENSES IF YOU CAN PROVE US WRONG SOMEHOW BY COMING TO MIAMI.ALL WE NEED IS YOUR REAL NAME AND INFORMATION TO BOOK YOUR TICKET AND EVERYONE HERE ON THIS FORUM IS MY WITNESS THAT I OFFERED THIS TO YOU.
Ill even take you to the beach as well :)

Screen name changed to jdm3...I'd also like a first class plane ticket:hi:

:)

[funkyman]

Turbo mate you guys must work on a turbo.There is no replacement for displacement except a turbo hehehehehe!!!!!So i shall be expecting a bolt on Turbo for all USA E46 models by December from AA yours truly.You guys pulled it off for the E36 i`m sure you can pull it off for the E46 using TSI management or APEXI or GREDDY.:excited: :banghead: :read: :shhh:

[TxZHP04]

I will try my best to explain how this works without giving away too many little secrets that we have discovered while tuning this car.


The MS45 DME is designed to manage the power of the engine by way of calculating torque.Yes, the DME actually has it's own little dynamometer that can measure torque!! We see this on our scanner when looking at the live data stream, quite impressive!


So when you press that thing we all know as the gas pedal, we are actually asking for torque, how much? Well that just depends on what the engine is capable of and what was actually programmed into the ecu by BMW. We are actually reprogramming how the torque is delivered with the TS, not a very easy task when you have thousands of maps to crack into.


So for example, if you press the throttle and request 150Nm of Torque and the motor will produce 180, the DME will first close the throttle to give you the target torque, if the throttle is not sufficient to manage it to that level then it will intervene further by reducing the ignition timing. Now you have to understand that this is happening incredibly faster than any other previous DME's that we are accustomed to. This is a 32 bit processor vs. the older 16 bit processors like the MS42,43... So we have to think outside of the usual box we are accustomed to, we are used to thinking that no matter what , the gas pedal is directly connected to the throttle body.Not so with this MS45 DME, So in a nut shell here is how it works:


TORQUE REQUEST>>>>>TORQUE MANAGEMENT>>>> TORQUE LIMIT INTERVENTION ( if needed)


Torque limit is hardly used unless the torque asked for is way too much for the motor or if the torque developed is way too much for the request.


So if we had a situation whereby we accelerated in a wet road and the tires spun easily causing the torque developed to jump up quickly as in the case of the twin screw, we would end up in a situation where we sort of caused the torque developed to be managed whether we like it or not. This may be a good thing because it can save drive train, it can help as traction control somewhat.... We believe that is why so many 330i ZHP cars have this dip that everyone is talking about. THIS IS THE FUTURE and it is here to stay!!!!!


The new 335i will surely have this built into it, so adding on bigger turbos, turning up the boost and exhaust upgrades will do nothing unless the DME is reprogrammed to re-manage the torque.


Bottom line: to get any power form the hardware up grades one has to : REMAP THE DME TO RE-MANAGE THE TORQUE!!!!!!!

KARL HUGH

Thanks, although Steve kind of beat you to the punch on that explanation. I wasn't quite clear on your theory of the stock ZHP dip though... I don't see how a stock engine can possibly be producing more torque than expected (wet roads aside).

[Active Autowerke]

Turbo mate you guys must work on a turbo.There is no replacement for displacement except a turbo hehehehehe!!!!!So i shall be expecting a bolt on Turbo for all USA E46 models by December from AA yours truly.You guys pulled it off for the E36 i`m sure you can pull it off for the E46 using TSI management or APEXI or GREDDY.:excited: :banghead: :read: :shhh:

Email me on Mon regarding your request..:eek:

[vaio76109]

Does an 01 330 have this torque sensing crap?

[russ330]

Turbo mate you guys must work on a turbo.There is no replacement for displacement except a turbo hehehehehe!!!!!So i shall be expecting a bolt on Turbo for all USA E46 models by December from AA yours truly.You guys pulled it off for the E36 i`m sure you can pull it off for the E46 using TSI management or APEXI or GREDDY.:excited: :banghead: :read: :shhh:

If I ran AA I wouldn't build a turbo kit simply because YOU want one so bad. Furthermore I think AA puts plenty of money in the bank without need to develop an E46 turbo kit.

Lastly why is it 80% of your posts in this forum turn off topic and you mention your longing for a turbo kit? Cut it out.

You want a turbo? Sell your E46 and buy an Evo, you'll have one stock.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Does an 01 330 have this torque sensing crap?

My understanding of that is no, its doesn't have the MS45 so you should be ok :hi:

[K-DOG]

AA, this is a dyno of a Stage II system correct?
How is it being cooled? Luminova cores? FMIC?

Congrads on finishing the kit. I would be lying if I did not say that I am waiting for ESS stage II results with lumoniva cores before I buy...
This is what they were promising.

Optional Bonus Stage for our customers with existing exhaust headers:
Stage TS2+ runs at 8.5psi.
Rated @ 370hp and 330ft/lb Torque

Now granted your dyno was done in ridiculous conditions, but their claims are slightly higher at a LOWER psi....
This is why I am very curious.

[AlexM105]

We will try to get some brief coverage later tomorrow evening showing some highway pulls. :thumbup:
Any vids yet?

[jdm3]

Again, could somebody please enlighten me on why I should buy this TS over a considerably cheaper ASA based centrifugal kit that seems to make more power and torque throughout the RPM band? This TS setup seems to have less torque than stock up to almost 3000RPM's? Why exactly is this better than a centrifugal when it does not have any torque advantage even with it's very high 9PSI boost level? I'm not trying to be difficult, but if someone could tell me the advantage when it sure as h... is not the early torque development:hmm:

[Tireux Roche]

Again, could somebody please enlighten me on why I should buy this TS over a considerably cheaper ASA based centrifugal kit that seems to make more power and torque throughout the RPM band? :



You shouldn't

You should build your own because it would be much much better.

Now please, stop being *such* a wanker.

[TxZHP04]

This TS setup seems to have less torque than stock up to almost 3000RPM's?

Instead of immediately starting to bash them, perhaps you should be asking questions about their dyno procedures and giving them a chance to explain. This vigilante posting style of yours does nothing for your credibility in the forum... even when you do raise valid concerns.

[bigjae1976]

Again, could somebody please enlighten me on why I should buy this TS over a considerably cheaper ASA based centrifugal kit that seems to make more power and torque throughout the RPM band? This TS setup seems to have less torque than stock up to almost 3000RPM's? Why exactly is this better than a centrifugal when it does not have any torque advantage even with it's very high 9PSI boost level? I'm not trying to be difficult, but if someone could tell me the advantage when it sure as h... is not the early torque development:hmm:

Just take the free ticket to FL.

[stimpee]

Again, could somebody please enlighten me on why I should buy this TS over a considerably cheaper ASA based centrifugal kit that seems to make more power and torque throughout the RPM band? This TS setup seems to have less torque than stock up to almost 3000RPM's? Why exactly is this better than a centrifugal when it does not have any torque advantage even with it's very high 9PSI boost level? I'm not trying to be difficult, but if someone could tell me the advantage when it sure as h... is not the early torque development:hmm:

Advice: Dont compare two different dynos from 2 different companies on different cars under different weather conditions and expect to find your answer.

Take them up on their offer and go drive the car, and compare it with the alternatives.

The dyno does not begin to tell the story on the difference between a twin screw and a centrifugal. If there was no difference, we, and other companies, would not be wasting ridiculous amounts of time and money making it happen. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: The dyno also provides you NO indication of the way the car drives, the throttle response, and the FEEL of the car.

[Boosted_ZHP]

Wow, i just wanted to say that i took a ride in the TS ZHP and OMG is it fast. I thought it would be fast, but i did not expect that. It is on a whole nother level than an e46 m3. I just want to say congrats to AA for building a quality product that is proven.

Now i need to start saving....:mischief:

[jdm3]

Advice: Dont compare two different dynos from 2 different companies on different cars under different weather conditions and expect to find your answer.

Why not? All Dynojets have a complete weather station and a very sophisticated SAE correction to compensate for any environmental differences. According to Dynojet it does not matter what humidity/temp etc you dyno under as the bench will correct using SAE calculations. That is the whole point of SAE correction.:read:


The dyno does not begin to tell the story on the difference between a twin screw and a centrifugal. If there was no difference, we, and other companies, would not be wasting ridiculous amounts of time and money making it happen. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: The dyno also provides you NO indication of the way the car drives, the throttle response, and the FEEL of the car.

So what you are telling me is that flat spots and poor torque development/AF ratios on a dyno does not really matter on the road? From what I see, both competing ASA based brands make similar torque as your TS, and they even have more torque up to almost 3K, even with lower and safer boost levels. I did not think driveability was an issue on centrifugal setups? I just thought the poor low to mid range torque was the problem, and it seems this TS does nothing to correct it.:hmm:

[chisau]

Wasnt your car for sale Motorsport 3? Thats all your car needs is the TS.

[jdm3]

Could any of you AA guys please post a link to your TS Runfile00315.drf so we can compare your curves with other cars and setups ourselves? It takes forever to plot it over by hand so I would really appreciate this :)

[JCz04Bimmer]

Why not? All Dynojets have a complete weather station and a very sophisticated SAE correction to compensate for any environmental differences. According to Dynojet it does not matter what humidity/temp etc you dyno under as the bench will correct using SAE calculations. That is the whole point of SAE correction.:read:

That's like saying that two PC's are going to behave and perform exactly the same because they ahve the exact same hardware in them. But we all know that to be completely false. There are tons of other factors, software, user habits, on-time, etc.

It is EXTREMELY well know and documented that regardless of any "correction" algorithms that it is nearly impossible to compare dynos that are featuring a very significant performance enhancing part. Unless it is on the SAME car, in the SAME environment with the car being on for the SAME amount of time, it is very difficult to compare dynos.

Its also funny that you're using information "according to Dynojet". OBVIOUSLY they're going to say that their system accounts for any differences in weather. Its called talking up their "features". Its like when a car company says on a commercial that their vehicle represents the best culmination of performance, luxury, and features. It might be true. But nine times out of ten its not. Its just what they're saying so people go and buy it.

I'm not a combative person but you have been so impossibly antagonistic in this thread. Can't you see that?

[chisau]

JDm3 has an agenda. Doing a quick comparison between a stock car and there is a significant difference w/ AA. The torque plot of ESS seems to drop significantly after 5k rpm which doesn't seem normal for a TS. AA's TS holds thru to 7k rpm.

I would love to see a comparo between all tuners vehicles by an independant company using the same dyno, same correction factors, same fan setup, same FUEL, same weather conditions, similarly setup v ehicles. Until then, this argument will never end. Just like the argument years ago about supercharged E46's blowing up if you supercharged them!

[crazy01]

I can't wait to see what the 325 numbers look like? Do you have any info for us 2.5's out here?

[stimpee]

I don't know where ESS's stock torque numbers came from, but they are significantly higher than any other 330 dynos that I can find anywhere:

http://www.dragtimes.com/2006-BMW-330i-Dyno-Results-Graphs-9167.html

http://videos.streetfire.net/category/Dyno+Pulls/13/1de7817c-c07f-4470-85d7-8a9b84582bfb.htm

http://www.vf-engineering.com/index.php?v=/kit_bmw_e46_328-330.php

So that right there indicates that a direct comparison of numbers is at a minimum, suspect.

Regardless, I am quite certain that you will not be satisfied with anything that gets done, or posted. You have an obvious agenda. If you do not want to buy the AA TS kit, no problemo, buy whatever floats your boat. That is a the beautiful thing about competition and having choices, YOU get to make YOUR choice. However the fact that you are actively trying to convince everyone ELSE to follow YOUR choices, is tiring.

I will no longer respond to ANY of your posts, or answer ANY of your questions. You are not worth my time. If anyone else asks the identical question, in a civil manner, I will be happy to do my best to assist.

JDM3, if you are not willing to take Active up on the offer to come see/ride in the car, video it in action, etc, then everything YOU say is suspect. Please feel free to feed all of my comments back to whomever is hiding behind your words as well...

:hi:

[Boosted_ZHP]

Wasnt your car for sale Motorsport 3? Thats all your car needs is the TS.

Yeah i was toying with trading my car for an e36 M plus cash and boosting the M with the left over money. But i decided not to.

[BimmaBwoy]

I can't wait to see what the 325 numbers look like? Do you have any info for us 2.5's out here?



^^^^ DITTTOOOOO:excited:

[Asbjorn@ESS]

I don't know where ESS's stock torque numbers came from, but they are significantly higher than any other 330 dynos that I can find anywhere

Our stock numbers are from a 2003 Z4 3.0i running pump 93AKI gas. The only mod on that Z4 was a ESS muffler. Our dynobench is a brand new DynoJet 224LC.

Also, our TS torque drops off exactly like the stock torque curve does. The ZHP you used in your dynos has more aggressive cams and the stock torque curve will hold longer in the RPM band. The ESS TS is designed to simply add 40-50% torque throughout, it does not change the basic charachteristic of the engine. If we wanted less torque down low and more up top we would simply design shorter runners like you have. We chose to duplicate BMW's torque band, just much stronger throughout.

But as you say, to each their own choice. How about an independent tuner test on the same car when all is done? That should settle the ESS vs AA TS debate. When it comes to a TS vs a CF I have to agree with Stimpee that when done right a TS simply "feels" better as well.

Good job on adapting your E36 TS for the M54 engine btw, did you also redo all the castings to match the M54 intake ports, or do you use the same manifolds as the E36?

[stimpee]

Our stock numbers are from a 2003 Z4 3.0i running pump 93AKI gas. The only mod on that Z4 was a ESS muffler. Our dynobench is a brand new DynoJet 224LC.

Good job on adapting your E36 TS for the M54 engine btw, did you also redo all the castings to match the M54 intake ports, or do you use the same manifolds as the E36?

I am not knocking your numbers at all, just trying to make a point to a certain individual that the direct comparison of numbers is quite difficult, especially since we unfortunately did not do a "before" test of THAT car on THAT dyno prior to the twin screw install.

As for the manifold, our intake manifold design was created from the start, well over 5+ years ago, to be a nearly direct fit for all of the BMW 6 cylinder engines from 1992-2005+ with the exception of the internal port geometry. I will leave any more direct answer than that to the folks in Miami, as I personally choose not to discuss those details at this point.

Also, note that we have tested both the Lysholm and Autorotor compressors during our E36 development efforts. Although you indicate that the Lysholm has been modified to your specific requirements, our testing of the two units side by side indicated that the Lysholm has slightly better VE at low RPM, and the Autorotor is superior at high rpm. Add to that the slight size difference between the compressors, and you get a slight difference in performance between the two. Add in some changes to the manifold, and the tuning, and there will inevitably be differences in performance.

However, I maintain that unless the cars are tested back to back on the same dyno, the comparisons are quite difficult to make, since as I mentioned, it appears that your dyno numbers on the stock car were quite a bit higher than any I have seen. I guess time, and future comparisons will tell...

[OCswedishM3]

Omar....compare stock M3 vs M3 SC stage 1 vs ZHP TS...

[UniqueEDesign]

Hey Guys-

Sorry about the delay in following up as South Beach kept myself and a few other fanatics out somewhat late :shhh:.

So I have some great news and some bad news.

First the bad news so I dont leave you in suspense!

Forgot to bring an extra battery for the camera so no videos yet :cry:

Now, the GREAT NEWS!!!!! ;)

In short, the TS transformed the ZHP to a completely new level!

Here are a few notes about the new driving experience to somewhat give you a sense of how it is riding in the car:

After firing up the car, the exhaust/engine sound instanly puts you in a new mindset as well as making you :drool:. Clutch engagement feels solid, with a very smooth tranmission of power. After getting it over around 2000 RPM the car really begins to perform as you can begin to hear a solid blower whine as well as the new exhaust. Getting a little bit more on the throttle brings you to a point of :yikes:- around 4k. The somewhat F1 style sound is beginning to become distinct and very aggressive. Also, at this point you really feel an enormous amount of power at your disposal and a gear change is only a little more pressure on the accelerator away- better get ready!

Going through the gears, power is endless with a constant pull!
Power delivery is refined and brings a somewhat delayed understanding of how quick the car truly is.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OcSweedish- we also would like to do a compare run with the setups mentioned above as we feel it should be a good show between the stage I and the TS!

Ironically, here are some notes on performance compared to a believed stock E46 M3-
Last night was fun since we actually got to run a E46 M3 without too much effort. However, the way the run occured really put the TS at a disadvantage. I digress...
We were cruising at about 65-70 in 5th Gear just enjoying the Miami views.
Saw some lights come up fairly quickly and we realized the scenario was an e46 m3 racing some form of a modified Jetta :dunno:

As they came up on us, we saw the M3 was obv pulling way ahead of the Jetta and a nerve kicked in to get a run with the M3. Waiting a good 15+ cars before even deciding to give it a try, we downshifted into 4th (not 3rd) and let it rip!

The gap between the still accelerating M3 closed fairly quickly and we passed the M3 with ease before the end of 4th. We shut down shortly after as we were just curious and noted the vid cam was out of battery :banghead:

A few other members were witness to this run who may care to add some comments. More importantly, we DO NOT condone street racing!

More notes to come later with a video hopefully soon!
:thumbup:

[AlexM105]

The gap between the still accelerating M3 closed fairly quickly and we passed the M3 with ease before the end of 4th.
Nice! :pimpin:

More importantly, we DO NOT condone street racing!
:rofl:

More notes to come later with a video hopefully soon! :thumbup:
Yeah, I wanna see and hear this thing in action!

[Activ3]

Unique.. you should go to the breakfast meet tomorrow!

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Unique.. you should go to the breakfast meet tomorrow!

I wish I could go :banghead: