Non M3 e46 nitrous

[TheOllister]

How safe is this on the M54 block (in a 328i).

I currently am running dinan reprog software and a dinan CAI.

I'm thinking MAYBE 50 shot wet, its this safe at all on the aluminum block?

[TheOllister]

and yes, i've already checked e46psi, noone is hardly active and nothing about non Mcars.

[FerrariTruck]

It's completly safe as long as you never get lean and detonate. if i were to spray i would only do it combination with propane as this will raise your octane level to about 115-118 keeping you extremely safe. But then i realize that its not worth spraying a 328:tsk: sorry i should've kept this to myself

[Hrvat]

Save your 328 and get a beat up civic and spray that mofo. If you blow up the 328i engine, it won't be pretty cost wise to fix it.

[TheOllister]

I believe it'd be highly worth it, considering ~$1k tops = 50hp instead of ~7k for
Forced induction yeilding 70 hp.

and also, i think i need responses from people who have a better opinion than you about it ;)

[TheOllister]

Save your 328 and get a beat up civic and spray that mofo. If you blow up the 328i engine, it won't be pretty cost wise to fix it.

I would but theres one big thing...FWD sucks, i'm talking about the 328i here, i dont want a damn civic. Just so you know, my bimmer isnt my daily, lets try again now.

[russ330]

I believe it'd be highly worth it, considering ~$1k tops = 50hp instead of ~7k for
Forced induction yeilding 70 hp.

and also, i think i need responses from people who have a better opinion than you about it ;)

70 HP? What FI systems are you looking at?

Also I'd be willing to bet that doing a proper set up will cost more than $1K. I'd recommend doing some dyno time after getting things setup to see what your AFR looks like while you're on the spray.

Let's see if you get more replies in the F/I forum. :dunno: You can also do a quick search in the F/I forum, there have been a few posts in the past that helped a little bit, but you're right most of the stuff is re: M3's. :(

[TheOllister]

can you move it there for me?

[russ330]

Already done. ;)

[pei330ci]

I'll open my comments by stating that I am currently building a fairly large/complicated nitrous system for a non M E46. So what I have to say is based on a LOT of research, and working with people that run HUGE systems on drag cars.

Yes it can be safe on a stock block.

A properly set up wet system with a 50 shot can be safe.

But, you have to chose between whether you want the car to run it's best on the bottle or off the bottle. The Dinan software is a bad idea with nitrous.

The issue is timing, and I'm not specifically refering to the timing of the spark.

Nitrous, even in small quantities, changes the burn speed of fuel in a cylinder. The target peak pressure of a cylinder should be 14 to 20 degrees after TDC. By changing the burn speed, the peak pressure is moved closer to TDC where there is very little downward motion of the piston. This situation can lead to detonation. Most "Tuning Chips" advance spark timing to get more cylinder pressure early in the stroke of the piston, but there is a limit to how far this can be done before this also creates detonation. My point is that with aftermarket software, you are generally moving away from an ignition curve that can support mild doses of nitrous.

Even with a perfect timing curve, and a perfect air/fuel ratio, there are still some things that need to be controlled. The first, and most important, is RPM. An RPM window switch is very good insurance against activating the nitrous too early in the RPM band, and avioding the factory rev limiter. A general rule of thumb is to activate nitrous above 3000 RPM, and have it automatically shut off a few hundred RPM before the factory rev limiter. The second item to use, is a Wide Open Throttle switch. You do not want to activate nitrous under part throttle, as the engine is generally running very lean for fuel efficiency. With the nitrous activated, you generally want to be below 13:1 AFR, the part throttle AFR of our cars is in the 14.5:1 area...

So just to put a dollar tag on this, you are looking at over $1000 to do it right with a stock engine. And yes, you don't want to run software.

The setup that I'm building is over $6K, and that's not even touching the engine, or including installation and tuning.

[m3mobbin]

Holy crap, a $6K nitrous system. Even though you went direct port how did you manage to spend that much. I put my wet system together for less than one grand and installed it myself (that includes wet NX kit, Dynotune pressure switched bottle warmer, NX purge, MSD window switch, NX pressure gauge, etc). When do you think you'll finish it, I would love to see some dyno runs...



The setup that I'm building is over $6K, and that's not even touching the engine, or including installation and tuning.

[Elefant]

I want to run nitrous in my 330. I want to stay at around 1k for a 50shot. I know nothing about nitrous lol, can i just buy that NX kit and be safe?

[pei330ci]

Holy crap, a $6K nitrous system. Even though you went direct port how did you manage to spend that much. I put my wet system together for less than one grand and installed it myself (that includes wet NX kit, Dynotune pressure switched bottle warmer, NX purge, MSD window switch, NX pressure gauge, etc). When do you think you'll finish it, I would love to see some dyno runs...

You've got a really nice setup listed there, it should be you that's answering people's questions. LOL :P

Most of the cost of the setup I'm building is electronics. I'll be running Powermod engine management, RPM Performance data logging, NX Maximizer2 with o2, and some fun stuff from Stack. About 3 years ago, there was a member of this forum that built a direct port system for his 330Ci. I've purchased the custom machined pieces from him, and will be adding more stuff on my own. His setup was dyno'd at over 330rwhp with a completely stock engine. Lets just say I'm starting where he stopped...

When will it be done? No clue. Given a choice between working on my car, or driving it on the track, I chose the later. It's looking like a winter project right now, but the engine will be built before the nitrous system is finished. I'd like to get close to 270rwhp N/A first...

[e popa]

Im working on put nitrous with my AA system.

[Funfgang]

you are going to EAT m3s like its your business...

[Mike Benvo]

FYI I have a complete NOS system (brand new) for sale...

Includes everything including an intercooler spray bar, bottle heater, remote opener, switch panel, etc... .

[noBenz]

FYI I have a complete NOS system (brand new) for sale...

Includes everything including an intercooler spray bar, bottle heater, remote opener, switch panel, etc... .

Yooohooo!!!! Mike Benvo, PM me lol I'd be interested in seeing your price for the kit.

[TheOllister]

so, so back to the topic (heh)...

I suppose I could just have new software written for my 328 that would give me my full power with the nitrous shot.

with stock internals, a 100-150 shot would be safe?

[TheOllister]

second question in this series...

as long as I keep my AFR down at a safe level (let just take for instance, the same AFR as a blower putting out 6-8 lbs of boost), will it be just as safe as a SC?

[pei330ci]

If you think $1K is expensive for a nitrous system, you will have a heart attack at the cost of custom software tuning for MS43/MS45.

There isn't any comercially available software for nitrous use on your car. People have gotten more power out of stock software with nitrous, than something like a Shark/Dinan software and a very small shot of nitrous. The advanced timing that gains 3-4 hp on a N/A tune will usually take away at least 50 hp of potential nitrous use.

Is a properly installed 50 shot safe with stock software? Yup.

Is it possible to run a 150 shot? No clue, but I wouldn't try it with a "simple" nitrous kit and stock internals/stock software. To run that big of a hit, you'd want a progressive controller to ease in the spray as RPM increases. Your asking for trouble though with a stock engine and exhaust setup.

If you are looking to use nitrous on the street, I would suggest looking into a supercharger first. If you are going to spend a lot of time at the drag strip, a nice nitrous system can be more cost effective.

For anyone looking to run nitrous, invest in a good nitrous book, and spend at least a month reading it. (It will take some time for everything to sink in) The best one I've found: Sport Compact Nitrous Injection by Joe Pettitt

[m3mobbin]

I am planning on having Evosport install their AEM EMS in the distant future along with a 3.5" HFM. With that setup I can have the EMS programmed to kick back timing when I spray... Thats gunna be a least 2k so I guess I could say I spent 3k on my nitrous system. When I heard how much you spent that much I thought you meant the actual nitrous components.

If you think $1K is expensive for a nitrous system, you will have a heart attack at the cost of custom software tuning for MS43/MS45.

There isn't any comercially available software for nitrous use on your car. People have gotten more power out of stock software with nitrous, than something like a Shark/Dinan software and a very small shot of nitrous. The advanced timing that gains 3-4 hp on a N/A tune will usually take away at least 50 hp of potential nitrous use.

Is a properly installed 50 shot safe with stock software? Yup.

Is it possible to run a 150 shot? No clue, but I wouldn't try it with a "simple" nitrous kit and stock internals/stock software. To run that big of a hit, you'd want a progressive controller to ease in the spray as RPM increases. Your asking for trouble though with a stock engine and exhaust setup.

If you are looking to use nitrous on the street, I would suggest looking into a supercharger first. If you are going to spend a lot of time at the drag strip, a nice nitrous system can be more cost effective.

For anyone looking to run nitrous, invest in a good nitrous book, and spend at least a month reading it. (It will take some time for everything to sink in) The best one I've found: Sport Compact Nitrous Injection by Joe Pettitt

[pei330ci]

I am planning on having Evosport install their AEM EMS in the distant future along with a 3.5" HFM. With that setup I can have the EMS programmed to kick back timing when I spray... Thats gunna be a least 2k so I guess I could say I spent 3k on my nitrous system. When I heard how much you spent that much I thought you meant the actual nitrous components.

You can download the AEM EMS software from the AEM website for trial use. It will make your head spin initially.... :D

I think you'll find that existing packages for the AEM EMS from Evosport are in the $4K neighborhood. Another option is MoTeC, but a complete MoTeC M800 setup with wiring and sensors will run you about $8K.

There are 2 piggyback options from Australia that are much more affordable, but you still need to have a good baseline tune and proper sized injectors for best results.

A well built multistage nitrous manifold can cost $6k, but I'm not playing with those kinds of flow rates...