E46 General Tuning Perpesctive

[funkyman]

With the ever rising concern of the cost of after market tuning products from various companies for the E36&46,it has come to my attention to draw a little perspective.
Even with normal Vortech supercharger kits, which are priced from $2000-4000 for American cars, cost upwards of $7000 for a BMW, using the same basic parts. However,with the 2.5-3.2L in stock form, there's just not a potential for big horsepower. Stroker engines? Get ready to spend $10K+, a costly tuning bill, and 3.4L is as far as anyone has gone with these blocks (this family of inline 6 engines started out with 2.5L displacement, so the M3's 3.2L version is already pretty "stroked" and "bored"). Aftermarket heads or intakes? One of the "hot" intakes for the M3 is substituting the older 325 unit and there is no aftermarket head to choose from like with many domestic engines. An aftermarket exhaust header is $1200+, and the aftermarket options just do not promise any easy power - few of them can out perform a used Euro M3 factory header, which adds a very modest power gain.Additionally,due to the complexity of the Siemens ECU managemnt system ,the cost of tuning the e46ECU`s has been somewhat way to pricey or disproportionate when compared with the whole KIT offered.With a Supercharger and a hefty sticker price of about at least 7K, 100-120hp tops is all you are going to get.It no doubt puts a question mark in our heads wether the money we spend is worth it or not and pleed that the prices are brought down to acceptable levels. The cost of putting in a SC unit stands at a mind boggeling of about 30%or more of the cost of the vehicle.

[MachRc]

Yes it's not a chevy, so performance parts are hella expensive. Some times funkyman I think you're more
stoned than I am.:)


Mahalo!!

[TxZHP04]

Even normal Vortech supercharger kits, which are priced from $2000-4000 for American cars, cost upwards of $7000 for a BMW, using the same basic parts. With but 2.5-3.2L in stock form, there's just not a potential for big horsepower. Stroker engines? Get ready to spend $10K+, a costly tuning bill, and 3.4L is as far as anyone has gone with these blocks (this family of inline 6 engines started out with 2.5L displacement, so the M3's 3.2L version is already pretty "stroked" and "bored"). Aftermarket heads or intakes? One of the "hot" intakes for the M3 is substituting the older 325 unit and there is no aftermarket head to choose from like with many domestic engines. An aftermarket exhaust header is $1200+, and the aftermarket options just do not promise any easy power - few of them can out perform a used Euro M3 factory header, which adds a very modest power gain.

Thanks for stating the obvious. :rolleyes:

[funkyman]

The performance parts used to put in a supercharger is almost identical to a domestic car thank you.!!!

[MachRc]

you're right. Most vortech systems(haven't seen a chevy with an ASA kit) are all the same for all different brands of cars. It was more cost effective back in the days because You could buy any vortech charger and use a piggy back to get it running. But the only reason why its so expensive now is because of all the tuning that has gone to make the kits more effective and properly tuned within the cars own engine management. Your not paying for the parts, your paying for the time it took these people to tune the cars properly and within safe limits.

[TxZHP04]

The performance parts used to put in a supercharger is almost identical to a domestic car thank you.!!!

You do understand that there is a lot more to an off-the-shelf supercharger kit than parts don't you? There is a lot of work involved in designing and machining brackets, etc to make all these parts just bolt on. Then there is the software tuning. The there is the testing to make sure that it all works together properly.

Even assuming that the R&D and manufacturing costs (including the raw parts cost you brought up) are exactly the same as for a kit for a domestic vehicle, the markets for BMW and domestic supercharger kits are vastly different. The domestic tuners can price lower because they know they will turn a higher volume of product. BMW tuners won't sell anywhere near the same volume and therefore have to price higher just to recover their development costs (and make a little money while they are at it).

[funkyman]

Thats what i mean won`t a lower price promote higher volume sales.?

[TxZHP04]

Thats what i mean won`t a lower price promote higher volume sales.?

Perhaps to some extent but it won't have the impact you might think.

Look at it this way:

Suppose 0.1% of car owners would even consider adding a supercharger, regardless of the price. 0.1% of 1 million BMW cars is 1000 potential customers. 0.1% of 100 million domestic cars is 100,000 potential customers. Now, let's pretend that it costs a tuner $50k to bring a kit to market and let's assume that 10% of potential customers actually buy a kit. How much should tuners charge for their kits? Well, the BMW tuner can sell 100 kits. If he just wants to recoup his development costs and cover the price of the parts in the kit, he would have to charge $500 (development: $50k / 100 units) + $2000 (parts) = $2500. The domestic tuner would need to charge $5 (development: $50k / 10k units) + $2000 (parts) = $2005. This doesn't factor in any profits to feed the kids and pay the light bill, etc.

In short, the volume of product sold depends on much more than just the price of the product. I know I have terribly over simplified things and the numbers are completely made up but do you follow the point I'm trying to make?

[0hMyGod]

Exactly. Well put. There are not that many modified BMW, it's just you find lots of nice bimmers on this board. :idea:
BTW, shouldn't this be in off topic?

[stimpee]

Perhaps to some extent but it won't have the impact you might think.

Look at it this way:

Suppose 0.1% of car owners would even consider adding a supercharger, regardless of the price. 0.1% of 1 million BMW cars is 1000 potential customers. 0.1% of 100 million domestic cars is 100,000 potential customers. Now, let's pretend that it costs a tuner $50k to bring a kit to market and let's assume that 10% of potential customers actually buy a kit. How much should tuners charge for their kits? Well, the BMW tuner can sell 100 kits. If he just wants to recoup his development costs and cover the price of the parts in the kit, he would have to charge $500 (development: $50k / 100 units) + $2000 (parts) = $2500. The domestic tuner would need to charge $5 (development: $50k / 10k units) + $2000 (parts) = $2005. This doesn't factor in any profits to feed the kids and pay the light bill, etc.

In short, the volume of product sold depends on much more than just the price of the product. I know I have terribly over simplified things and the numbers are completely made up but do you follow the point I'm trying to make?

Don't forget that since the domestic tuner is selling 10k kits, instead of 100 kits, that his parts cost is not $2000 like the bmw tuner, but 1200 since he is buying his components in HUGE quantities.

You do understand that Vortech charges you a LOT less for the blower if you buy a few thousand units rather than 50-100 right? And that the machine shop making your bracket charges you a LOT less for a few thousand units than 50-100?

Steve

[TxZHP04]

Don't forget that since the domestic tuner is selling 10k kits, instead of 100 kits, that his parts cost is not $2000 like the bmw tuner, but 1200 since he is buying his components in HUGE quantities.

You do understand that Vortech charges you a LOT less for the blower if you buy a few thousand units rather than 50-100 right? And that the machine shop making your bracket charges you a LOT less for a few thousand units than 50-100?

Steve

Absolutely. Like I said, my example was terribly oversimplified.

[pei330ci]

A point that was discussed on another forum I frequent: There is a difference in how complete a BMW kit is, and a Ford kit for example. As far as I can tell, the BMW kits are truely a bolt on setup, with everything included in the box. A Ford setup is often much simpler, and requires more parts that aren't included like fuel injectors, fuel pump upgrade, new MAF sensor, and a few other odds and ends. Most of these "cheap" kits use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator instead of software tuning to increase fuel as boost comes on. It works, but I it's not as good as a properly tuned EMS.

Compare the parts list of a Technic, AA, or ESS kit with those from Procharger, or Vortech....you'll see where the difference in price is.

I'd rather pay more up front for better engineering...