Headers feasibilty on a BMW 6 cylinder in line.

[funkyman]

The community is always curious as to wether the headers justifiy their expense in realtion to a significant power increase.Brand name headers are very expensive but not because they give a huge power increase but because they are expensive to tailor and manufacture.Otherwise headers are in general a total waist of money ,unless its an american muscle car with a v8 engine,or rather unless you have a trubo charged engine without cats,a free flow exhaust that will blend in and marry nicely with the headers and custom turbo manifold.Headers barely contribute to a power increase,so it would be a waist on an in-line BMW 6 cylinder to be honest.
Would you agree that the percentage increase in gained power is wothless for a 2k header.

[vmwerks]

No... the E46 has the catalytic converters in the exhaust manifolds. In your case you would be replacing the manifolds AND installing hi flow cats. I had a set of Technik ver 1 headers in my car and it made a significant difference... Obviously an FI car would see more gains than one that is NA but to extract the most HP from your car you should be looking at the entire package incl headers. Your engine is a glorified air pump, more air in and more air out = power.

waist = waste

BTW Your question is, "Is it worth it..." that boils down to individual taste and pocketbook.

[crazy01]

I bought the headers from vmwerks and personally think it was worth it. I can feel the difference in power and love how it made my car sound. I posted a dyno a while ago, 325 with headers (no cats), AFE intake, eisenmann exhaust, made 178 at the wheels in 96 degree weather on dynojet.

[Dolomite]

have you seen what your exhaust manifold looks like? Notice how the ports are pancaked into a small collector and stuffed into a cat. I don't know how you came up with your theory but headers make noticable gains from small displacement go karts, to NA Honda civics, to E46 BMW's, etc...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/kenbaranda/headers1.jpg

[downtoearth]

Is the stock e36 M3 header a good investment for E46 330? Would it give much gain?

[Activ3]

Is the stock e36 M3 header a good investment for E46 330? Would it give much gain?

Yes, but you'd need to use a modified e36 downpipe and possibly the cats.

I've installed a set on to a 323i, and it runs amazingly...

[GBX330ci]

Yes, but you'd need to use a modified e36 downpipe and possibly the cats.

I've installed a set on to a 323i, and it runs amazingly...

I've never heard of using e36 m3 headers on an e46. Can you elaborate? Is the car as loud as an e46 with technik or supersprint headers?

[Activ3]

I've never heard of using e36 m3 headers on an e46. Can you elaborate? Is the car as loud as an e46 with technik or supersprint headers?



It is just as loud if not louder. The e36 manifolds are somewhat tubular and I believe are cast iron. They are strong, and well designed, flowing much better than the factory e46 manifolds.

You can actually use the manifolds, as well as the downpipe and factory cats from most e36, M or non M, though the M one is a bit larger and flows better. You will have to bend the piping slightly where it first curves just behind the transmission, but after that it fits fine. You'll also have to have a custom exhaust built after the cats.

[downtoearth]

It is just as loud if not louder. The e36 manifolds are somewhat tubular and I believe are cast iron. They are strong, and well designed, flowing much better than the factory e46 manifolds.

You can actually use the manifolds, as well as the downpipe and factory cats from most e36, M or non M, though the M one is a bit larger and flows better. You will have to bend the piping slightly where it first curves just behind the transmission, but after that it fits fine. You'll also have to have a custom exhaust built after the cats.

So why does it need a custom exhaust? Sounds like a lot of work. But OEM quality and should be quite cheap to get.

[Activ3]

Well you could actually keep your stock muffler, and just have them weld an extension up to the rear of the e36 cats, but I figured if you're doing headers, might as well change out the rear muffler for an aftermarket one or a custom magnaflow..

[downtoearth]

Well you could actually keep your stock muffler, and just have them weld an extension up to the rear of the e36 cats, but I figured if you're doing headers, might as well change out the rear muffler for an aftermarket one or a custom magnaflow..

good. i just got an aftermarket exhaust so it's still good. time to start looking for a M3 header. :mischief:

[Activ3]

I should also mention that in the factory e36 headers, they each have a hole where the air pump plugs in to. You need to just weld them shut, it takes about 10 minutes, so your mechanic shouldn't charge much, if anything at all.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

The E36 328 and M3 share the same exhaust manifolds and midsections (cats).

The exhaust manifolds are "ok" for power, but there are still gains to be had from a true header setup.

These are from a 325 and I believe are the same as on the M3/328, its the midsections that were significantly better on the M3/328.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/Used%20Parts/Picture_1013.jpg

Euro M3's got long tube headers which are pretty slick.

[Activ3]

Those are def. 325, they don't have the hole or mount for the air pump... those are what you should get if mounting on an e46.

And yea, the midsections on the obdII 328/m3 were true dual piping up to the cats, whereas the obdI M3/325 used a single pipe that split right before the cats.

[clean-m-tech330]

^

That's pretty neat, however I'd just stick with headers that were designed specifically for a 330 ie: Technik headers for roughly 1200 youre getting a top quality built header with a ceramic coating, can't really go wrong. I understand budget is always something to consider as well...

[downtoearth]

^

That's pretty neat, however I'd just stick with headers that were designed specifically for a 330 ie: Technik headers for roughly 1200 youre getting a top quality built header with a ceramic coating, can't really go wrong. I understand budget is always something to consider as well...

it's always good to have the extra cash. The e36 OEM header are good given the cost.

[m3mobbin]

Those are e36 obd I headers and are completely different than the tubular OBD II headers. 328 and 96+ M3 had the same tubular headers which flow much better and weigh much less. 95 m3s and 325 shared the same crappy cast headers. I have an extra set OBD II headers if anyone is interested.
The E36 328 and M3 share the same exhaust manifolds and midsections (cats).

The exhaust manifolds are "ok" for power, but there are still gains to be had from a true header setup.

These are from a 325 and I believe are the same as on the M3/328, its the midsections that were significantly better on the M3/328.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/Used%20Parts/Picture_1013.jpg

Euro M3's got long tube headers which are pretty slick.

[m3mobbin]

Actually the OBD I cars did have dual pipe before and after the cats they just and a short Y section that allowed for a single O2 sensor. But your a right about the OBD II's flowing wayyy better. They flow so much better than the OBD I's that installing track pipes don't even make a noticable bump in power.
Those are def. 325, they don't have the hole or mount for the air pump... those are what you should get if mounting on an e46.

And yea, the midsections on the obdII 328/m3 were true dual piping up to the cats, whereas the obdI M3/325 used a single pipe that split right before the cats.

[Bowser330]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E46-325i-330i-00-04-Z3-2-5L-3-0L-E39-525i-HEADER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33624QQihZ020QQitemZ300023 139330QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I think these are headers that othere threads are raving about. Apparently people are seeing gains. They are copies of the supersprint headers i think.

[Active Autowerke]

hmm.. I heard Active Autowerke has an E46 Non M Coated Header that will be available in a week or two.. List price @ $1125.:hi:

[noBenz]

same price as all the other name brand ones... Can we get a company to make headers that are much more affordable? Say around $700-$800

[funkyman]

hmm.. I heard Active Autowerke has an E46 Non M Coated Header that will be available in a week or two.. List price @ $1125.:hi:

Nice!

[ADA]

hey....is this the euro e36 m3 headers that will bolt right up to the M52tu
(e46) engine?

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2038/euroe36m3jl0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[ADA]

is this the regular e36 (m52) headers?

this is OBD-II right?

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6631/e36headersta6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

is this the regular e36 (m52) headers?

this is OBD-II right?


Looks like it, but I want someone else to confirm this.

Edit - its definitely OBD-II, that pipe and the spots it connects to is for the secondary air system, I'm just not positive on the rest.

[Oshin02]

I say headers will do more for the non-M's then the M's. The Non-M headers are an extremely poor design. but the E46 M3's at least have a tubular design. More power gains will bee seen on the non-M's.....and as for the cats,TEAR THEM OUT!

-Oshin P.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/oshin02/nocats.jpg

[downtoearth]

is this the regular e36 (m52) headers?

this is OBD-II right?

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6631/e36headersta6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's what I'm thinking of getting for my e46 330. I can't go Catless so thinking of getting the cat as well from e36 M3. wonder if that will off set all the performance gain.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

That's what I'm thinking of getting for my e46 330. I can't go Catless so thinking of getting the cat as well from e36 M3. wonder if that will off set all the performance gain.

the E36 328/M3 cats aren't too bad. Like was said earlier track pipes aren't as popular there because the cats actually flowed pretty good. Its not perfect but definitely better.

[phrozen06]

http://www.jpperformancellc.com/_images/products/bmw/IMG_4551_jpwynn.jpg


I might go with these: http://www.jpperformancellc.com/bmw.html

[downtoearth]

http://www.jpperformancellc.com/_images/products/bmw/IMG_4551_jpwynn.jpg


I might go with these: http://www.jpperformancellc.com/bmw.html

I clicked on the 2000 to current e46 and it says somehting like proven upto 22whp gain on a 95 M3, what the heck???

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

I clicked on the 2000 to current e46 and it says somehting like proven upto 22whp gain on a 95 M3, what the heck???

The 95 M3 had the more restrictive exhaust headers, and it said 10-22, meaning it probably gained 10. I've seen tuning and headers on a stock 1998 M3 only show a 15 hp gain, tuning alone can get 10 or so.

I wasn't impressed with headers because of that.

[Boosted_ZHP]

:thumbsup: Just go with ebay copy SS headers for 250 shipped. :str8pimpi

[ADA]

Hey Tyler,

How loud is the stock m52 exhaust manifold. I am thinking about replacing my restrictive e46 exhaust manifold for the less restrictive m52 one.

I don't want to go with aftermarket headers because of the noise issue

[downtoearth]

Hey Tyler,

How loud is the stock m52 exhaust manifold. I am thinking about replacing my restrictive e46 exhaust manifold for the less restrictive m52 one.

I don't want to go with aftermarket headers because of the noise issue

same boat here and i'm planning to add cat back on. still a bit worry about the noise level as my exhaust is loud.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

The manifolds aren't really what cuts the noise out. Its got a lot to do with the cats and so I think that just becauase you are removing the cats you will be seeing a lot more noise. Not likely as much as the full blown headers will make, but still more than you've got now. I have my cats in and I've heard E36's with "quiet" exhaust systems and no cats and they sound burbly/raspy/awesome but are a bit on the loud side.

[Hollywood619]

I feel like a total NOOB asking this, but is the extra flow sufficient enough to require a programming change or do you guys feel a difference in power from the stock DME adapting? I am thinking about using stock Euro M3 with metal catalyst high-flow cats. I am in Europe and can get the headers for a decent price.

[downtoearth]

The manifolds aren't really what cuts the noise out. Its got a lot to do with the cats and so I think that just becauase you are removing the cats you will be seeing a lot more noise. Not likely as much as the full blown headers will make, but still more than you've got now. I have my cats in and I've heard E36's with "quiet" exhaust systems and no cats and they sound burbly/raspy/awesome but are a bit on the loud side.

so sounds like keeping the cat and a loud exhaust (B&B Triflow)won't be too bad. I'm thinking of it more and more now. :D

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

so sounds like keeping the cat and a loud exhaust (B&B Triflow)won't be too bad. I'm thinking of it more and more now. :D

When I was searching for stock manifold pictures to show someone earlier today, I came across a thread that had a sound clip with stock exhaust and the headers, I'm sure you can find them with aftermarket exhausts, but it wasn't tooo loud, and it sounded nice.

[downtoearth]

I finally get a chance to see how our (e46) header looks. I know nothing about header design but man our's sure look sucks. No wonder header has good potential on e46.