VF Chargers

[NeoGeo]

Does anyone here have any opinions on the VF-Chargers? They have a dealer in my location (which is more convenient that going to Technik, etc and then having to find a decent installer).

I was mainy wondering about the reliability. The Vortex units seem a little old school, but they also seem to work reliably, what do you guys think? Also the boost level on the stage 1 kit is not that agresive, so I'm thinking that it may be a lot easier on my engine than some of these other kits.

I think 330 chp is more than enough for me, and I'd even be willing to eventually jump to stage 2, without upping the bost. In terms of VDUB, these guys seem to know what they are doing... but I'm not sure about that when it comes to BMW. Has anyone here had problems with their kit. It does look well made/engineered.

I'm not knocking the other companies, but I'd rather have the work / support conducted by a manufacturer certified dealer, and that option just isn't available to me with Technik, ESS etc.

Thanks.

[ritos530i]

They are the most productive kit out for bmw but take a long time to finish with a stage 2 or 3. Most other companys like Technik,AA, ESS, and all the rest come out with at least 1,2,3 stages. Unless They already have a stage 2 out i would move on to one of the kits mention above. Just my opinion

[NeoGeo]

They are the most productive kit out for bmw but take a long time to finish with a stage 2 or 3. Most other companys like Technik,AA, ESS, and all the rest come out with at least 1,2,3 stages. Unless They already have a stage 2 out i would move on to one of the kits mention above. Just my opinion

I would move on to the other kits, but the support / service issue scares me. I'd rather not deal with the associated headaches. Remeber the guy who posted about the X5 and his ESS kit... yeah... I don't want to be that guy. Even if that situation was nobody's fault I still don't want to be that guy. At least if I give my business to a ceritified dealer / installer, if something goes wrong, I have someone to hang.:4ngie:

What do mean when you say the VF kit is the "most productive"?

Thanks again.

[ritos530i]

[quote=NeoGeo;5231965]I would move on to the other kits, but the support / service issue scares me. I'd rather not deal with the associated headaches. Remeber the guy who posted about the X5 and his ESS kit... yeah... I don't want to be that guy. Even if that situation was nobody's fault I still don't want to be that guy. At least if I give my business to a ceritified dealer / installer, if something goes wrong, I have someone to hang.:4ngie:

What do mean when you say the VF kit is the "most productive"?


What i mean is they have a multitude of applications. Also, if you feel more comfortable with your locat service guy then that is what i will do. It will serve you better in a long run.

[mkell]

I wouldn't have any worries with the guys at AA. They know what they are doing.

[ritos530i]

I wouldn't have any worries with the guys at AA. They know what they are doing.


I can not argue that point. They are a very well know company for their work. Especially on BMWs. I just wish they had more product for my car. But that would be the case with all the companies out there for FI

[NeoGeo]

I wouldn't have any worries with the guys at AA. They know what they are doing.


I'm sure the AA guys are great, but I worry about the guys installing their product.

Another great advantage of the VF kit is that you don't have to make any modifications to the car at all, and that you can return it back to stock entirely. I remember redronin writing about his installation experience. He acually had to chop something off his car!! WTF!!! (I think he installed a Technik kit, but I can't really remember.) To some people this sort of stuff isn't a big deal, and for them that's great because they may end up getting a better performing kit, but there's no way any sort of grinder, dremel, saw or whatever is getting anywhere near my car. I don't care if he had to chop of something entirely useless, I don't want to chop.

I just wish I had more data on the VF kits. I'd like to know if people are really satisified or not.

Thanks for all the help.

[Chris@Technik]

^
Just an FYI, redronin didn't chop anything off, he grinded down a bracket, that's all. Our kit is just as much a simple bolt-on kit as VF's without question. Thanks-

-Chris

[Jlevi SW]

I've been using the VF on my 328 for over 2 years now... very satisfied customer here.

Give us a call if you want to discuss VF - we carry them, we have a ton of experience with them, and we're offering $250 off with free shipping :)

Thanks
JL

[ritos530i]

jlevi SW you need to hook me up with a good deal on the new E60 vented hoods. lol

[NeoGeo]

Hi JL,

I may be giving you a call, it just depends on the deal I can get from you vs my local supplier. Anyway I appreciate your input, it's good to know that your SC has been running strong for 2 years.

Did you have to make any modifications to your car when you did the install... i.e. did you have to grind any bits of... I'd rather own a kit that was made to suit the existing vehicle, than own one that requires modifications to the car. I realize that this is just my personal stipulation... and other people may feel differently...but in the end it's my car and this is what I prefer.

From the pictures it looks like all VFs tubing etc. is custom molded per each application. I really like that. I don't mind moving components around, as long as they can be returned to their rightful place if I ever remove the kit.

One thing I have to say is that I don't like the fact that I have to send my ECU away. I wish my local dealer could just program it. If VF is just overwriting the entire FLASH ROM, I don't understand why they cant send the program to the local dealer, and have the dealer commit the flash. I work with FLASH ROMs all day at work, so I don't see the difficulty here. Can you help me understand this part... am I missing something, or does the SC dealer actually do the SW upgrade? Hopefully in the end it will be worth it.

Also what kind of maintenance have you had to do on this kit, how hard do you drive it, and what is the proper preventative maintenance that one should complete.

Thanks

[Chris@Technik]

^

Just to lend a helping hand- the reason why most companies wont allow other dealers or dealers in general to flash the software with a specific program(s); is primarily due to software theft or pirating. The software required to make the s/c kit properly run with your car is extremely expensive and quite also labor intensive, lots of tuning has to be conducted and naturally lots of time is invested as well. Allowing other people to utilize the manufacturers software is just too risky, sending the ecu in, just really protects both sides. You're getting the correct software and we the tuners are protecting our work.

Maintanence for a s/c is really quite simple. Make sure to check the belts and hoses on the car. Look for cracks and or leaks, there shouldn't be any, but it's always a possibility. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me as need be, thanks-

-Chris

[ritos530i]

(how hard do you drive it,) its an old saying if you buy a new car and baby it all the time, then later decide you want to go extreme, the car is just not use to that and may have a bad reaction. If you are like me drive it hard from the start you break the car in the way you want to drive it in the future.

[NeoGeo]

^

Just to lend a helping hand- the reason why most companies wont allow other dealers or dealers in general to flash the software with a specific program(s); is primarily due to software theft or pirating. The software required to make the s/c kit properly run with your car is extremely expensive and quite also labor intensive, lots of tuning has to be conducted and naturally lots of time is invested as well. Allowing other people to utilize the manufacturers software is just too risky, sending the ecu in, just really protects both sides. You're getting the correct software and we the tuners are protecting our work.

Maintanence for a s/c is really quite simple. Make sure to check the belts and hoses on the car. Look for cracks and or leaks, there shouldn't be any, but it's always a possibility. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me as need be, thanks-

-Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the help. Like I said, I have nothing againts Technik's kit, and I love the cars that you guys put together. However you don't have a dealer in TO, so that makes your kit a difficult option for me... even if I look past the griding. I have no problem purchasing other parts from you guys to compliment the SC. Your headers for example look amazing.

[Chris@Technik]

Chris,

Thanks for the help. Like I said, I have nothing againts Technik's kit, and I love the cars that you guys put together. However you don't have a dealer in TO, so that makes your kit a difficult option for me... even if I look past the griding. I have no problem purchasing other parts from you guys to compliment the SC. Your headers for example look amazing.

Hey no problem, I know you have nothing against our kits or company alike. Thank you, our 335 looks amazing right now, haha hopefully we'll be able to update the other thread with some more pics soon. I understand your feelings about the lack of a dealer close to you at this time. I'll definitely discuss this with Samir and see if he currently has a shop up there I just dont know about or if he's working on locating one. The grinding is something that has to be done, there's no way around it at the moment. Either way I'm not trying to push you to get one of our kits, if you don't it's fine. Like you said I can always assist you with out parts to compliment your s/c kit. Haha thanks are new headers are quite nice as well. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help, thanks-

-Chris

[Nick@Jlevi SW]

Hi JL,

I may be giving you a call, it just depends on the deal I can get from you vs my local supplier. Anyway I appreciate your input, it's good to know that your SC has been running strong for 2 years.

Did you have to make any modifications to your car when you did the install... i.e. did you have to grind any bits of... I'd rather own a kit that was made to suit the existing vehicle, than own one that requires modifications to the car. I realize that this is just my personal stipulation... and other people may feel differently...but in the end it's my car and this is what I prefer.

From the pictures it looks like all VFs tubing etc. is custom molded per each application. I really like that. I don't mind moving components around, as long as they can be returned to their rightful place if I ever remove the kit.

One thing I have to say is that I don't like the fact that I have to send my ECU away. I wish my local dealer could just program it. If VF is just overwriting the entire FLASH ROM, I don't understand why they cant send the program to the local dealer, and have the dealer commit the flash. I work with FLASH ROMs all day at work, so I don't see the difficulty here. Can you help me understand this part... am I missing something, or does the SC dealer actually do the SW upgrade? Hopefully in the end it will be worth it.

Also what kind of maintenance have you had to do on this kit, how hard do you drive it, and what is the proper preventative maintenance that one should complete.

Thanks
The kit did not require any grinding or modification to OEM parts. It is 100% reversible meaning if you want to sell the car, you can always take it off without a trace of installation or need to replace OEM parts.

[tscales]

I just ordered the VF kit for my 540 on Thursday. Everything I've read says it is a great kit. I'm also considering their new M3 kit. The numbers are sick :)

Tom

[NeoGeo]

I just ordered the VF kit for my 540 on Thursday. Everything I've read says it is a great kit. I'm also considering their new M3 kit. The numbers are sick :)

Tom


Please let me know how your install goes, and if you can take some pics. I just want to see how the fittment turns out.

It's funny, I talked to a an intaller in TO and he liked the VF kit the most as well. When I spoke to him, I wasn't really all that interested in the VF kit, but after doing some reading on my own, and reading about GIAC software I think it's a pretty good and safe option.

The installer I spoke to probably stands to make more money on me with other kits, since they are more expensive, and since the installation quote was slightly higher for them .

The fact that he'd rather sell the VF kit says something about it. I'm not sure if I can assume this, but the slightly decreased isntallation time tells me that the kit is crafted to fit each application very specifically, and to me this is a good thing.

Did you do any general reading about superchargers before you decided to mod? Do you have a quality, engineering reference that you can recommend. I want to learn everything I can about this stuff. Equations and math don't scare me, so if you have something in mind let me know.

Thanks.

[tscales]

To be honest, I read all the threads on all the boards I could. I couldn't see any reason to pay more than what VF charges. Overall, the feedback was positive. There were a few 'oh my SC is better' threads, but no actual reasons. For the Dinan, I think it is pure prestige. ESS vs. VF was a wash. I had a bit of a bad taste in my mouth from a previous aborted order with ESS, which made the VF choice pretty simple.

We'll see :)

Tom

[NeoGeo]

To be honest, I read all the threads on all the boards I could. I couldn't see any reason to pay more than what VF charges. Overall, the feedback was positive. There were a few 'oh my SC is better' threads, but no actual reasons. For the Dinan, I think it is pure prestige. ESS vs. VF was a wash. I had a bit of a bad taste in my mouth from a previous aborted order with ESS, which made the VF choice pretty simple.

We'll see :)

Tom


Thanks... It's nice to hear an honest opinion. The price is really good. My car is away for the winter, or else I would have jumped all over the sale... every little bit counts. I'm hoping that once I get her out of storage that I can still get a pretty good package deal. Don't forget the pics! :)

[M3islove]

Since this thread is already with many of my newbie-to-FI questions answered, I might as well add.

what are the implications of supercharging a high-mileae engine? i have about 80k on the clock already and by the time i have money enough, it would be in 85-90k range. still safe? i'm a student on a budget and a blown engine would just kill me. plus, i'm still paying the car off.

i'm liking the VF cause it's under 5k, doesn't use high amount of boost (which i'd figure is better for my older engine), and the vortechs seem to have a good reputation.

[ritos530i]

You are in Florida and you haven't contacted AA about a Supercharger! somethings wrong with this picture.

[M3islove]

You are in Florida and you haven't contacted AA about a Supercharger! somethings wrong with this picture.



Don't have that kind of cash yet man.

[NeoGeo]

Since this thread is already with many of my newbie-to-FI questions answered, I might as well add.

what are the implications of supercharging a high-mileae engine? i have about 80k on the clock already and by the time i have money enough, it would be in 85-90k range. still safe? i'm a student on a budget and a blown engine would just kill me. plus, i'm still paying the car off.

i'm liking the VF cause it's under 5k, doesn't use high amount of boost (which i'd figure is better for my older engine), and the vortechs seem to have a good reputation.

The lower boost on the VF is part of what attracted me to the kit as well. This week I'll be paying a local dealer to see kits that have already been installed on other cars... these are VDUBS though.

[ritos530i]

Don't have that kind of cash yet man.
AAs kits are on sale for $3995 and no one can beat that price.
I am not talking about the TS kit they have. Just go to their site it pops up.

[Ervin87]

AAs kits are on sale for $3995 and no one can beat that price.
I am not talking about the TS kit they have. Just go to their site it pops up.

That is for the e36.
The e46 kits start @ $4895

[Nik@vf-engineering]

VF have E46 (non-M) kits at $4500 for a limited time. Just drop our sales team a line sales@vf-engineering.com for details. It sounds too good to be true, but dont ask me why, its a crazy promo our new marketing guy has implemented.

[tscales]

Can you get that crazy guy to do the same on the M3 kits :)

Or the 540 kit I just ordered?

[Nik@vf-engineering]

Can you get that crazy guy to do the same on the M3 kits :)

Or the 540 kit I just ordered?

I can definitely have him do something for you on the M3 since you will be a repeat customer. Please drop me an email at your convenience! nik@vf-engineering.com

[Nik@vf-engineering]

Tom, by the way, you are absolutely going to love the 540 kit. This was my 2003 6spd sport that we designed the kit on. With both a supercharged 540 and M3, you are going to be ruined and definitely feeling like :pimpin:

The 540 with our SC is just a smooth torque monster. You can "ease" on the throttle, and roar through country roads and wide open freeways at low rpms.

The M3 with our supercharger just makes you feel like anchoring on the gas pedal all the time and getting up to lightening speed.

Off course, VF promotes safe and courteous driving within the limits, at ALL times.:read:

http://vf-engineering.com/images/kit/bmw/e39_540/top/3.jpg

http://vf-engineering.com/images/kit/bmw/e39_540/top/8.jpg

I dont want to side track this thread, so back to the original discussion.

[NeoGeo]

Tom, by the way, you are absolutely going to love the 540 kit. This was my 2003 6spd sport that we designed the kit on. With both a supercharged 540 and M3, you are going to be ruined and definitely feeling like :pimpin:

The 540 with our SC is just a smooth torque monster. You can "ease" on the throttle, and roar through country roads and wide open freeways at low rpms.

The M3 with our supercharger just makes you feel like anchoring on the gas pedal all the time and getting up to lightening speed.

Off course, VF promotes safe and courteous driving within the limits, at ALL times.:read:

http://vf-engineering.com/images/kit/bmw/e39_540/top/3.jpg

http://vf-engineering.com/images/kit/bmw/e39_540/top/8.jpg

I dont want to side track this thread, so back to the original discussion.

Nick, can you get me some better pics of the Z4 kit?

Thanks.

[NeoGeo]

Nick,

One more question, from the z4 pics that I did see on your website, it looks like you remove the stock air box. I'm not sure where the air duct has been routed to. How difficult is it to clean the new air filter. What has to be removed to get to the new filter?

Thanks again.

[Jlevi SW]

Tom, by the way, you are absolutely going to love the 540 kit. This was my 2003 6spd sport that we designed the kit on. With both a supercharged 540 and M3, you are going to be ruined and definitely feeling like :pimpin:

The 540 with our SC is just a smooth torque monster. You can "ease" on the throttle, and roar through country roads and wide open freeways at low rpms.

The M3 with our supercharger just makes you feel like anchoring on the gas pedal all the time and getting up to lightening speed.

Off course, VF promotes safe and courteous driving within the limits, at ALL times.:read:

http://vf-engineering.com/images/kit/bmw/e39_540/top/3.jpg

http://vf-engineering.com/images/kit/bmw/e39_540/top/8.jpg

I dont want to side track this thread, so back to the original discussion.


The man himself :bow:

[crovax]

I live in south florida and i ordered the VF kit... AA wanted $9000 installed for their kit... a little over budget. Wanted $2000 for install... i paid $450 to install the VF and havent had a problem with it yet other than the air filter is a tight fit behind the MTEC II foglights. Had the kit for 35,000 miles so far. Motor has 115k miles on it and still runs great.

[NeoGeo]

I live in south florida and i ordered the VF kit... AA wanted $9000 installed for their kit... a little over budget. Wanted $2000 for install... i paid $450 to install the VF and havent had a problem with it yet other than the air filter is a tight fit behind the MTEC II foglights. Had the kit for 35,000 miles so far. Motor has 115k miles on it and still runs great.


That sounds great. Thanks for the useful information. It really looks like these VF kits are pretty strong. I've heard nothing but good stuff about them. All the installers I speak too rave about them... as bing very high quality, and for some reason these guys all like the Vortech unit. Do you have any idea why... is it just a reliability thing? The installer's also like the lower boost.. and the mention that in the long run it's a lot easier on the engine if one is not going to upgrade internals. Maybe later on... as a project I might upgrade the internals on my own... and then upgrade to stage 2, if I get a newer, better car and hang on to this one... provided that my wife lets me do that :) . I'm lucky I'm even getting an SC, so I won't push it. I wish I had a backup car, at least then I wouldn't be so scared to mod this one.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

The ONLY things I don't really like about the VF kits are fairly simple. I don't think you get the claimed HP, at least not on the cars I've seen with them. It could have been the cars (clogged cats or some other sisue), but the claims are decently high for THAT vortech blower at such a low PSI. The unit is capable of more and is thus operating below its "ideal" boost level. That just means it is using more power than it has to and should be making less than other kits.

The increased install time on any AA/technik stage 2 kit vs the VF stage one is completely due to the intercooler.

Another side note, EVERY centrifugal kit, except AA, requires drilling and tapping the oil pan for the SC oil return - along with typically the use of a longer bango bolt for oil feed. AA uses a rotrex compressor which uses a proprietary "traction oil".

My preference is to AA and Technik, by more than just a bit. the VF kits are better looking, but I haven't been particularly impressed with some of the dynos I've seen from customers cars. And a 328 with 330 bhp should beat an M3 from a roll (weight advantage) on the highway (where gearing is more moot) but the M3 usually wins at any speed still, hence my other reasoning for less power than claimed.

They are good, reliable kits, but when supercharging a car I would rather have a no compromises kit (stage 3 :yikes: ).

-Tyler

[NeoGeo]

The ONLY things I don't really like about the VF kits are fairly simple. I don't think you get the claimed HP, at least not on the cars I've seen with them. It could have been the cars (clogged cats or some other sisue), but the claims are decently high for THAT vortech blower at such a low PSI. The unit is capable of more and is thus operating below its "ideal" boost level. That just means it is using more power than it has to and should be making less than other kits.

The increased install time on any AA/technik stage 2 kit vs the VF stage one is completely due to the intercooler.

Another side note, EVERY centrifugal kit, except AA, requires drilling and tapping the oil pan for the SC oil return - along with typically the use of a longer bango bolt for oil feed. AA uses a rotrex compressor which uses a proprietary "traction oil".

My preference is to AA and Technik, by more than just a bit. the VF kits are better looking, but I haven't been particularly impressed with some of the dynos I've seen from customers cars. And a 328 with 330 bhp should beat an M3 from a roll (weight advantage) on the highway (where gearing is more moot) but the M3 usually wins at any speed still, hence my other reasoning for less power than claimed.

They are good, reliable kits, but when supercharging a car I would rather have a no compromises kit (stage 3 :yikes: ).

-Tyler


Do any of the VF guys care to chime in on this one? Just a while ago someone said that when the system was removed, the car could be retured entire back to stock.... what about the hole in the oil pan? A plug in the hole is not quite 'back to stock'. Sorry don't mean to harp on this, but I want to know what i am getting into.

Also can any of you VF guys have comment on Tylers horsepower comment? He's pretty much stating that you don't meet your 'general' horsepower claims in most cases that he's seen. I know the numbers will vary from car to car... but I'd expect you to be pretty close to your numbers.

Thanks again.

[NeoGeo]

The ONLY things I don't really like about the VF kits are fairly simple. I don't think you get the claimed HP, at least not on the cars I've seen with them. It could have been the cars (clogged cats or some other sisue), but the claims are decently high for THAT vortech blower at such a low PSI. The unit is capable of more and is thus operating below its "ideal" boost level. That just means it is using more power than it has to and should be making less than other kits.

The increased install time on any AA/technik stage 2 kit vs the VF stage one is completely due to the intercooler.

Another side note, EVERY centrifugal kit, except AA, requires drilling and tapping the oil pan for the SC oil return - along with typically the use of a longer bango bolt for oil feed. AA uses a rotrex compressor which uses a proprietary "traction oil".

My preference is to AA and Technik, by more than just a bit. the VF kits are better looking, but I haven't been particularly impressed with some of the dynos I've seen from customers cars. And a 328 with 330 bhp should beat an M3 from a roll (weight advantage) on the highway (where gearing is more moot) but the M3 usually wins at any speed still, hence my other reasoning for less power than claimed.

They are good, reliable kits, but when supercharging a car I would rather have a no compromises kit (stage 3 :yikes: ).

-Tyler

Can you post any of these dynos to this thread?

[MarvelPhx]

Another side note, EVERY centrifugal kit, except AA, requires drilling and tapping the oil pan for the SC oil return - along with typically the use of a longer bango bolt for oil feed.

-Tyler

You are making claims that are incorrect and should check your facts before you prop up AA.
Not one of my three different ESS kits (two of them centrifugal) required drilling or tapping *anything*.

As for the Vortech, and this is my opinion based on the Vortech I owned and research I have done with compressor maps, flow rates, efficiency, and turbine sizing... it is simply too big for the 3.0L and makes more noise than any other kit Ive ever seen. The Vortech V2SQ is great for say a M3 spinning 8k and displacing 3.2 liters. It is also good on big V8s too. But it is just too big for anything 3.0L and under with a measly sub7k redline. It is just barely tickling its best performance when you run out of revs on the 330i, even more so on a 325.

This has nothing to do with VF or any other kit, hell, VF makes fantastic hardware. This has to do with the blower itself and its use in our E46 applications.

[ritos530i]

I knew some would step in and set things straight.

Thanks Todd

I have been following the thread and althought the original post was about getting an affordable kit, affordable is not always the best route.

By the way how is that beast of yours running?

[MarvelPhx]

By the way how is that beast of yours running?

While OT, it is running great.

[NeoGeo]

I knew some would step in and set things straight.

Thanks Todd

I have been following the thread and althought the original post was about getting an affordable kit, affordable is not always the best route.

By the way how is that beast of yours running?

More useful info... thanks. It's not only affordability, its also the local installer, reliability etc. that I'm interested in. Having a local installer is high on my list of plusses.

Is the noise unbareable?

[MarvelPhx]

Is the noise unbareable?

That is a matter of personal opinion. The only way to describe it is as slight chatter at idle and a noticable scream at speed. When coming off throttle, it will chirp quickly like a bird. While I loved the fact that when I pulled up to BMW meets people instantly knew I had a supercharger, the flip side is that it is not stealthy nearly as much as the TS or the ASA.

On a side note, the Vortech sound is so unique that I knew this Mustang 5.0down the street had one long before I ever spoke to the owner cuz I heard it every time he drove by.

It all depends on what you are looking for or if that even matters to you. It shouldnt be your only deciding factor.

[NeoGeo]

That is a matter of personal opinion. The only way to describe it is as slight chatter at idle and a noticable scream at speed. When coming off throttle, it will chirp quickly like a bird. While I loved the fact that when I pulled up to BMW meets people instantly knew I had a supercharger, the flip side is that it is not stealthy nearly as much as the TS or the ASA.

On a side note, the Vortech sound is so unique that I knew this Mustang 5.0down the street had one long before I ever spoke to the owner cuz I heard it every time he drove by.

It all depends on what you are looking for or if that even matters to you. It shouldnt be your only deciding factor.

All I want at this point, is a good reliable, well built kit, with proven software, that will not overly stress my engine internals. I also want it installed by a an authorized dealer installer. The sound is not a major concern, so long as it is within reason.

There is an authorized VF installer in my location, but I read some sketchy stuff on a local board, so now I have cold feet about the whole thing. This whole things just makes me a little nervous.

I noticed that you completed the install on your own. If you don't mind me asking, are you a certified automotive technician... I'm just trying to judge the difficulty level of this, incase I can't find a kit that meets the last criteria. In that event I rather install it on my own, and I know things will be done as perfectly as humanly possible. But I stress this is a last resort solution. I'd much prefer to have the dealer install the kit.

Thanks again.

[ritos530i]

IMO if you are going to the flip side(performance) and you want power under your hood, you can not expect a stock sound on your car. I have a luxury ride but i want to have an extreme side to it, So if you want performance and lots of it, i would not focus so much on the high performance sound because that is standard. If you expect you car to sound stock after going extreme you better save you money.

I have seen time and time again people want to go faster but expect to not sound faster. You can not have both. Now as to the Vortech kit i have no experience with but i know it has to be quality since it is one of the leading kits sold. All of the kits have a distinctive sound to let you know its there,So like MarvelPhx(Todd) said it is just a personal opinion. Some like rumble, some like roar, and some like a whistle sound, but you have to decide. Either way you are not going to have a stock sound anymore.

Just my two cents in a very simple way to look at it.

[MarvelPhx]

All I want at this point, is a good reliable, well built kit, with proven software, that will not overly stress my engine internals. I also want it installed by a an authorized dealer installer. The sound is not a major concern, so long as it is within reason.

There is an authorized VF installer in my location, but I read some sketchy stuff on a local board, so now I have cold feet about the whole thing. This whole things just makes me a little nervous.

I noticed that you completed the install on your own. If you don't mind me asking, are you a certified automotive technician... I'm just trying to judge the difficulty level of this, incase I can't find a kit that meets the last criteria. In that event I rather install it on my own, and I know things will be done as perfectly as humanly possible. But I stress this is a last resort solution. I'd much prefer to have the dealer install the kit.

Thanks again.

...

[MarvelPhx]

All I want at this point, is a good reliable, well built kit, with proven software, that will not overly stress my engine internals. I also want it installed by a an authorized dealer installer. The sound is not a major concern, so long as it is within reason.

There is an authorized VF installer in my location, but I read some sketchy stuff on a local board, so now I have cold feet about the whole thing. This whole things just makes me a little nervous.

I noticed that you completed the install on your own. If you don't mind me asking, are you a certified automotive technician... I'm just trying to judge the difficulty level of this, incase I can't find a kit that meets the last criteria. In that event I rather install it on my own, and I know things will be done as perfectly as humanly possible. But I stress this is a last resort solution. I'd much prefer to have the dealer install the kit.

Thanks again.

I am not an automotive technician, but I have taught myself a ton along the way. I read, tinker, read, tinker, and so on. Quite educational. And surround yourself with people who know a heck of a lot more than you. That always helps.

Of the three kits Ive owned, the Vortech is by far the easiest to put in. No IC and tubing, no manifold removal, no coolant lines. Very simple, but also the least efficient of the three. In performance, my ASA kicked the Vortechs butt, and my TS kicks the ASAs butt. In reality, the TS trumps all the centrifugals and for a very close price. After owning all three types, I concur.

[Brad@vf-engineering]

I don't think you get the claimed HP, at least not on the cars I've seen with them. It could have been the cars (clogged cats or some other sisue...)

And a 328 with 330 bhp should beat an M3 from a roll (weight advantage) on the highway (where gearing is more moot) but the M3 usually wins at any speed still, hence my other reasoning for less power than claimed.

Please specify which cars you're referring to and we'll go from there. Being in the business, I'm sure you know that comparing anectdotal evidence regarding different cars on different dynos during different conditions is suspect at best, but if any of our customer cars are truly underachieving in the hp dept, we'd definitely like to know.

And how many different VF S/C 328s have you used to perform your (pretty unscientific) highway testing?

[Jlevi SW]

I had some fun on the freeway with a friend's M3 and he didn't catch up to me until around 150 - I think that's where my car's gearing hindered me. From 30-150, though, I watched him fade into my rear view. But you're right, it's pretty unscientific.

JL

[ritos530i]

If anything, gears would help the M3 (Stock) on a 30-150mph but i don't see how because they really dont have highway gears. Now your 328(blown) has high way gears stock which will be better for highway top speeds.

It probably has more to do with power bands. M3 could hold their power bands longer than a 328(blown).

For example your red line is some where between 6k rpm to 7 rpm but a M3 should be 7500 to 8500 rpms. Depending on what he has done to it. I could be off by 500 rpms.

[NeoGeo]

Please specify which cars you're referring to and we'll go from there. Being in the business, I'm sure you know that comparing anectdotal evidence regarding different cars on different dynos during different conditions is suspect at best, but if any of our customer cars are truly underachieving in the hp dept, we'd definitely like to know.

And how many different VF S/C 328s have you used to perform your (pretty unscientific) highway testing?


Brad I have one more question to you. I've been doing a lot of reasearch, and it's really hard to distinguish truth from BS. This is a big investment, and all I can do is ask as many questions as I can, to as many people as I can, and then decide from there.

So, I've been reading a lot of stuff on a lot of different boards. Some of it states that the GIAC software is not as "complete" as say AA's or ESS' software, because it only applies modifications to certain scalar multipliers, doesn't affect all tables and doesn't actaully modify timing.

I'd like to know straight form VF if this is myth or fact. Is it that people just don't know how to read the software. I may not be an automotive engineer, but I am a professional firmware engineer, and I for the life of me can't tell how people would know anyting about your code, except by decompiling it. I can understand reading out data tables, by dumping certain regions of memory, and I can understand that scalar multipliers can be obtiained by examining mapfiles and again dumping memory, but beyond that, I don't know what people are doing.

Here's a quote I found on another site:

"Just because they compensate for spark, timing, etc, does not mean they actually adjust all these factors directly. They only "compensate" for it. As I said earlier, I know people who have gone through the ESS code and compared it to the GIAC code, and the GIAC code only edits one of many maps available. The ESS alters all of them. This is where I got my information about the VF tuning. Maybe it's old information. Maybe now they actually are able to write to all the maps. I do seem to remember only being able to access the one map via the OBD port where the rest of the maps must be flashed directly to the EPROM in the DME, requiring the DME to be taken apart - but I don't remember the specifics so I won't go on record for that. Could be the reason GIAC only alters the one map - it's the one that's easiest to access that's convienent to customers in that they don't have to ship away their DME. "

I'm pretty sure that I'd have a much better chance of reverse engineering the GIAC software, than most of the people that are saying it doesn't hold up to ESS' and AA's but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Can you please explain this in greater detail, and either let me know if this is BS or not. I can't even understand how this software would work correctly if you haven't changed more than just a few multipliers.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, so please don't take this the wrong way. In fact, VF's kit is is the one I will probably choose in the end. I just want to understand this stuff.

[Brad@vf-engineering]

Brad I have one more question to you...

No worries - we've seen these suppositions before and I can honestly tell you they are patently untrue.

I'm on my way out of the office, but I'll take a moment to let you know that GIAC software is as complete as anything found in this industry. Every part of the DME code is accounted for.

I'll let Nik give you details, but the reason some people don't see many changes when they scan our software is simply because GIAC wants it that way.

[NeoGeo]

No worries - we've seen these suppositions before and I can honestly tell you they are patently untrue.

I'm on my way out of the office, but I'll take a moment to let you know that GIAC software is as complete as anything found in this industry. Every part of the DME code is accounted for.

I'll let Nik give you details, but the reason some people don't see many changes when they scan our software is simply because GIAC wants it that way.

Thanks Brad... I appreciate the confirmation I figrued as much.... and if you're ever looking for an enthusiasitc software engineer let me know :thumbsup:

[ritos530i]

NeoGeo,
You are making way too much of this. VF,AA,ESS,and Technik all tune their software based on the application specific. You are trying to compare apples to oranges. The big differents between the kits have already been explained. I would say if there was a better company, it would not say you can not have something go wrong. All of th companies have proven to be good at what they do. As to the remap of your ecu. AFR and timing is what you get. For the TS kit it has to be tuned more indept because of the torgue curves involved. But one of the guys from AA or ESS can explain this in more dept. Either way you go you will get a good kit and support but like all things, it depends on who asnwers the phone that day.

[NeoGeo]

NeoGeo,
You are making way too much of this. VF,AA,ESS,and Technik all tune their software based on the application specific. You are trying to compare apples to oranges. The big differents between the kits have already been explained. I would say if there was a better company, it would not say you can not have something go wrong. All of th companies have proven to be good at what they do. As to the remap of your ecu. AFR and timing is what you get. For the TS kit it has to be tuned more indept because of the torgue curves involved. But one of the guys from AA or ESS can explain this in more dept. Either way you go you will get a good kit and support but like all things, it depends on who asnwers the phone that day.

I don't think asking a few questions before making a substantial investment is 'making too much of something'. This is a thread about VF chargers, and I don't think there is anything wroing in asking VF about the GIAC software.

[ritos530i]

Sorry you missed understood or i came across wrong.
I was just saying you are in the right place for help and anything you may have concerns with can be asnwered here. The point was you are always going to have someone with a mixed feeling about a particular product.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

I should clarify, I've only seen two VF 328's myself. Both were fast, and sounded sick, run great, and have had no supercharger related issues. They just aren't as fast as a stage 2 or 3 kit, are more succeptable to heatsoak, and as Todd said (and I am completely in agreeance-look above) the vortech blower is a hair to big for the application. The same blower is used effectively on motors twice the size - hence me saying that.

For what you are looking for its a great choice. If you wanted balls out power I would say TS and call it a day. If you wanted something easier on the car - more ROAD course trackable (TS has more on-off power band) I'd say a nice stage II ASA or rotrex kit.

And Thanks for the correction on the ESS/tapping stuff. They use a different drainplug or dipstick piece for the return? (curious). The VF kit I saw installed had the oil pan tapped. I don't really think it makes a difference persay - but its still something to consider as a modification. Brake ducts, sometimes headlights, etc. have to be trimmed or removed, or "something" to make stuff fit on these kits. Most people would never notice after and I can't speak for the Z4 VF kit because I've never seen one during install, but I'd imagine its tighter than the E46...

[Nik@vf-engineering]

I'm pretty sure that I'd have a much better chance of reverse engineering the GIAC software, than most of the people that are saying it doesn't hold up to ESS' and AA's but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

GIAC re-write the entire ECU for us, often upgrading the firmware versions just as BMW do. If you use basic tools available on the open market, typically one would only see a small section of the code which will lead you to the original conclusion drawn upon above. In fact GIAC leave "red-herring" code in the software to divert the attention of would be prying eyes. The software is written back to the ECU in a different format and encrypted. To most scan tools, the GIAC software will appear stock - which is exactly what GIAC want.

However it takes several months (per DME family) of full time engineers at GIAC who write their own tools and encryption algorithms to prepare flashing suites for VF to use and flash supercharger software into the DME. Any speculation that their work is superficial is purely speculation. The work GIAC perform extends to anything from writing new code for the Porsche 959 to read new O2 sensors to make it road legal upto reflashing Bentley twin turbos at Bentley dealerships. Any rumours cast on GIAC's ability or track record would be un-informed conjecture. Further research on their history will show that.

Also a little research into VF's product range would show that we are not new in the business of supercharging. Our supercharger kits have been on the market for 11 years. We have sold over 2000 systems worldwide for models ranging from the VW R32 to the Porsche 997S.

I have taken NeoGeo's comments as constructive and with an open mind, but I would like to make it clear that GIAC are a performance DME/ECU specialist using and creating cutting edge technology. They have been in their industry for over 15years and support some of the leading Porsche race teams and Audi Race teams in various series, and aftermarket products for industry leaders for BMW/Bentley/VW/Audi/Porsche - all using OEM DMEs.

[Nik@vf-engineering]

I should clarify, I've only seen two VF 328's myself. Both were fast, and sounded sick, run great, and have had no supercharger related issues. They just aren't as fast as a stage 2 or 3 kit

Hi Tyler!:hi: Quite rightly so, when you compare our stage1 to a stage2 or 3 from another company which runs higher boost levels, then our stage1 wont feel as fast !

vortech blower is a hair to big for the application. The same blower is used effectively on motors twice the size - hence me saying that.

I am not sure why you feel the blower is too big because it also happens to be used on larger engines. The engine size is not as important as the trim of the impeller or the compressor maps and the impeller speeds we are working within. We have engineering status with Vortech, they matched the impeller we use to the power band, rpm and capacity of the BWW engines we are mating them to. We are currently runing optimal efficiency according to the head of R&D at Vortech. I hope that clears up that myth.:thumbup:


Another side note, EVERY centrifugal kit, except AA, requires drilling and tapping the oil pan for the SC oil return ..... And Thanks for the correction on the ESS/tapping stuff. They use a different drainplug or dipstick piece for the return? (curious). The VF kit I saw installed had the oil pan tapped. I don't really think it makes a difference persay

We believe it does make a difference. Thats why all our BMW kits come with a plug and play oil feed (t-fitting) and drain (replacement dipstick tube with additional spout for oil drain line). The car you may have seen was probably either not a VF kit or the installer may have chosen to go to the pan on his own initiative.

The ONLY things I don't really like about the VF kits are fairly simple. I don't think you get the claimed HP, at least not on the cars I've seen with them. It could have been the cars (clogged cats or some other sisue), but the claims are decently high for THAT vortech blower at such a low PSI.

Wow ! Thats a pretty inflammatory comment. Can you please advise how many of our cars you have dynod? If none, then I kindly I ask that you retract that comment from this thread please. :)

[NeoGeo]

Hi Tyler!:hi: Quite rightly so, when you compare our stage1 to a stage2 or 3 from another company which runs higher boost levels, then our stage1 wont feel as fast !



I am not sure why you feel the blower is too big because it also happens to be used on larger engines. The engine size is not as important as the trim of the impeller or the compressor maps and the impeller speeds we are working within. We have engineering status with Vortech, they matched the impeller we use to the power band, rpm and capacity of the BWW engines we are mating them to. We are currently runing optimal efficiency according to the head of R&D at Vortech. I hope that clears up that myth.:thumbup:




We believe it does make a difference. Thats why all our BMW kits come with a plug and play oil feed (t-fitting) and drain (replacement dipstick tube with additional spout for oil drain line). The car you may have seen was probably either not a VF kit or the installer may have chosen to go to the pan on his own initiative.



Wow ! Thats a pretty inflammatory comment. Can you please advise how many of our cars you have dynod? If none, then I kindly I ask that you retract that comment from this thread please. :)


Nick and Brad... thanks for all the useful information. And I wasn't ragging on the GIAC software. I intended to say that I don't really understand how the claims against it could be true... I hope you didn't misunderstand me. Also... thanks for clearing up the oil pan thing... I didn't really want to have to tap mine!

As a side note: Do you recommend Supercharged! by Corkey Bell?

Can't wait to get this system on my car. BTW, did you ever get those pictures of the Z4 system... with a little more detail than what is on your site?

Thanks again

[illfx]

Hi Nick,
Dude I am interested in a SC kit as well. I have the same concerns NeoGeo. I want the power, but dont want to lose any option to return to stock. Do you cary kits instock? how long is the turn around?

Im moving to San D. and have no contacts with any shops. Id like to come by your shop when I move down there.

[Nik@vf-engineering]

Hi Nick,
Dude I am interested in a SC kit as well. I have the same concerns NeoGeo. I want the power, but dont want to lose any option to return to stock. Do you cary kits instock? how long is the turn around?

Im moving to San D. and have no contacts with any shops. Id like to come by your shop when I move down there.


hey there!
you are most welcome to stop by our facility and check out our production line (plastic molding manufactuing, CAD and CNC production facility, Chassis dyno, production assembly and fabrication depts) anytime! I think you will find SD to be a pretty cool place (in case you have not spent much time there already).

In answer to your question, our kit is designed as a no-nonsense kit, perfect for the daily driver and just as easy to remove as it is to install. Clean and non-intrusive.

http://www.vf-engineering.com/unsecured/DSC00986.JPG

[crovax]

look, tyler is referring to my car when he says it doesnt make the numbers it should. My car is 2000 328ci with 80k miles when the blower was installed, has 115k now. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt I don't make close to 270 whp. I can't begin to keep up with an M3, not on the highway and not from a stop. It just doesnt happen, I've raced many many M3's and its the same result everytime. I should really take it to a dyno and see. Now I'm not saying it's VF's fault, the kit is great, and hasnt given me any problems. I don't regret buying it and I would definitly recommend it to other people, but for some reason, my car just simply does not mke the kinda power advertised. Could be clogged cats, or compression loss or something, but basically not close. I have a manual tranny and magnaflow muffler as the only other modifications, and live in FL where we have 93 oct fuel. I'll take it to the dyno someday and we'll see where I really stand.

[tscales]

I don't understand how you are so sure it doesn't make the HP when you haven't bothered to dyno it. Not beating M3s could mean a lot of things, including that they're better drivers (no offense, just an example)

Spend the hundred bucks to get a dyno.

[rushman]

Another side note, EVERY centrifugal kit, except AA, requires drilling and tapping the oil pan for the SC oil return - along with typically the use of a longer bango bolt for oil feed.
The VF kits DONT require drilling and tapping of the oil pan. The oil return from the S/C runs into the bottom of the (supplied with the kit) new dipstick tube.

[MarvelPhx]

The VF kits DONT require drilling and tapping of the oil pan. The oil return from the S/C runs into the bottom of the (supplied with the kit) new dipstick tube.

I didn't think so. The VF kits remind me a lot of the Vortech kits ESS came out with like 6 years ago so the dipstick drain seems logical. I am pretty sure only the original Infinitas based ASA kits were designed with the oil pan drill and drain.

[Hollywood619]

Nik, I have been patiently waiting for you guys to finish the ZHP kit. I have had a Civic SI and Mustang 5.0 with your kits and have been extremely happy. As I'm sure everyone else feels, thank you very much for all the information you and your partners have published in this thread. Do you have any updates on the completion of the ZHP software for your kit?

[Nik@vf-engineering]

With regards to Tylers comments, after IMing him, he clearly pointed out to me, that he had got our dynos numbers mixed up between our 328 and 330 kit. This is why, as I clarified to him, that the VF car did not seem to make advertised power to him. However it did, because what he saw was a VF 328 (not 330) car make 260whp. And this is almost spot on ! because we advertise 269whp for the 328. Our 330 kit makes 290whp which we equate to 330chp which is what he thought he saw. We have many independent dyno plots from happy customers who email us their results. We sell approx 20-30 kits per week. Despite the activity on this forum from our customers being quite mild, believe it, there are thousands of VF customers out there making lots of power!


Nik, I have been patiently waiting for you guys to finish the ZHP kit. I have had a Civic SI and Mustang 5.0 with your kits and have been extremely happy. As I'm sure everyone else feels, thank you very much for all the information you and your partners have published in this thread. Do you have any updates on the completion of the ZHP software for your kit?

Thankyou for your kind comments. Just to clarify, we are a separate company to Vortech who probably made your Civic and Mustang kits. We make kits for cars ranging from the VW R32- 428whp to the Porsche 997S 450whp using GIAC software and all Vortech units. We have engineering status from Vortech which means they endorse our products and allows us to offer a 3 year product warranty.

Our MS45 (this is the DME family found in the 04-05 325/330 and ZHP models) kits will be coming soon and in fact we are looking for a local test car to complete our software testing on. If anyone is interested please email us on sales@vf-engineering.com

[NeoGeo]

With regards to Tylers comments, after IMing him, he clearly pointed out to me, that he had got our dynos numbers mixed up between our 328 and 330 kit. This is why, as I clarified to him, that the VF car did not seem to make advertised power to him. However it did, because what he saw was a VF 328 (not 330) car make 260whp. And this is almost spot on ! because we advertise 269whp for the 328. Our 330 kit makes 290whp which we equate to 330chp which is what he thought he saw. We have many independent dyno plots from happy customers who email us their results. We sell approx 20-30 kits per week. Despite the activity on this forum from our customers being quite mild, believe it, there are thousands of VF customers out there making lots of power!




Thankyou for your kind comments. Just to clarify, we are a separate company to Vortech who probably made your Civic and Mustang kits. We make kits for cars ranging from the VW R32- 428whp to the Porsche 997S 450whp using GIAC software and all Vortech units. We have engineering status from Vortech which means they endorse our products and allows us to offer a 3 year product warranty.

Our MS45 (this is the DME family found in the 04-05 325/330 and ZHP models) kits will be coming soon and in fact we are looking for a local test car to complete our software testing on. If anyone is interested please email us on sales@vf-engineering.com

Thanks for the calification Nick, I was wondering what all that was about.

[Brandon@vf-engineering]

Here is a video of a 328 VF enthusiast that is very happy with the stage 1 system. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5102941077549874522&q=VF+Engineering&hl=en

[crovax]

listen, I'll take a dyno next week, and when it makes about 240 whp which is what I think it makes, then you can tell me how bad of a driver I am for losing to an M3, or youll blame it on my cats or boost leak or something I dunno. I'll post a dyno this next week sometime.

[mach330]

what's the rwhp on your zhp kit? i also emailed you guys with some questions. thx.

[Nik@vf-engineering]

what's the rwhp on your zhp kit? i also emailed you guys with some questions. thx.

We are curently looking for a local ZHP and 04 or 05 non-ZHP (ie MS45) to finalize software testing. If you are local (looks like you are in Orange County, CA) we are also offering a decent discount.

[mach330]

We are curently looking for a local ZHP and 04 or 05 non-ZHP (ie MS45) to finalize software testing. If you are local (looks like you are in Orange County, CA) we are also offering a decent discount.

i'm in the irvine area...can you pm me what i need to do? i'll be happy to lend my car. let me know what you need.

pinoy2die4@gmail.com

[Brad@vf-engineering]

or youll blame it on my cats or boost leak or something I dunno...

No offense, but why wouldn't we?

Of course the numbers you get depend on many variables (type of dyno is a biggie), but we've tested enough 328s to know what a healthy example should expect with our kit.

If yours isn't making close to the advertised output I think it's reasonable to look into why. We'll be happy to help should you find you have a problem.

[Nik@vf-engineering]

i'm in the irvine area...can you pm me what i need to do? i'll be happy to lend my car. let me know what you need.


email sent

[funkyman]

error

[funkyman]

We sell approx 20-30 kits per week. Despite the activity on this forum from our customers being quite mild, believe it, there are thousands of VF customers out there making lots of power!

Well either AA or you guys must have seriously got your figures muddled up big time.Now as far as i know i thought that AA sold the most superchargers for BMW`s with about 140 of them world wide ,but you`re saying that you sell 20-30 a week.Holy Jehovah,judas,Moses,Mose:excited: whoever thats a good 125 sc`s in just 5 weeks.You must have a SC factory or something LOL.:hmm: :argue:

[mach330]

email sent

thanks...emailed ya back.

[TaZaM3]

We sell approx 20-30 kits per week. Despite the activity on this forum from our customers being quite mild, believe it, there are thousands of VF customers out there making lots of power!

Well either AA or you guys must have seriously got your figures muddled up big time.Now as far as i know i thought that AA sold the most superchargers for BMW`s with about 140 of them world wide ,but you`re saying that you sell 20-30 a week.Holy Jehovah,judas,Moses,Mose:excited: whoever thats a good 125 sc`s in just 5 weeks.You must have a SC factory or something LOL.:hmm: :argue:

I think he meant for all their kits, Porsche, Audi etc.. But 20-30 kits a week even if it is all various different cars is a damn lot. VF should be making insane money selling 100 kits a month!!! I cant even comprehend how hard that must be to produce all that, im overwhelmed thinking about it...

AA has the most M3 kits sold.

[crovax]

No offense, but why wouldn't we?

Of course the numbers you get depend on many variables (type of dyno is a biggie), but we've tested enough 328s to know what a healthy example should expect with our kit.

If yours isn't making close to the advertised output I think it's reasonable to look into why. We'll be happy to help should you find you have a problem.

We'll see what the dyno says and go from there.

[tscales]

And the key isn't the number, it is the increase from the baseline. What was your 'before install' number?

I took my 540 in for my baseline last week. It ran pretty low at 220hp, but as long as the increase is good, I don't care, because the car is very strong and the day I took it was horrible for numbers.

Tom

[ritos530i]

What year is your 540 because my 530i dynoed at higher hp than your 540. Just curious!

[crovax]

dyno is tomorrow at 9:30am

[funkyman]

I have 330ci,could i go for one size bigger blower and would that need a different software for the ECU or can your stock blower be good for 8 psi.Howmuch would the estimated stage2 be with charged manifold and estimated WHP for the stage 2 kind regards.

[Jlevi SW]

You don't need a "bigger blower" per say - you can simply up the boost on the Vortech V2SQ :) That's what Stage II will be about, when it is released.

JL

[Jeff@vf-engineering]

I have 330ci,could i go for one size bigger blower and would that need a different software for the ECU or can your stock blower be good for 8 psi.Howmuch would the estimated stage2 be with charged manifold and estimated WHP for the stage 2 kind regards.

The V2SQ used in the BMW 6 Cyl. applications (including your 330CI) is capable of producing upwards of 20 psi. There is no need for a larger unit. Stage 2 pricing and power levels are not available yet, we will update our website once more information is available.

[Jlevi SW]

Jeff,
Tell me when I need to send my car back down for Stage II development... You guys can have it as long as you like! :bow:

JL

[tscales]

dyno is tomorrow at 9:30am

Any results yet?

[funkyman]

Does the kit have an intercooler

[harrycheema]

NEOGEO
where are you planning on getting your stuff installed from in toronto..is it a reliable place,let me know. thanks

[crovax]

Any results yet?

you can check the other thread. it made 249.8whp @ 6800 rpm

[tscales]

Certainly about what it should +/-