Choosing the right Supercharger

[Minnoe07]

Well, I am planning on buying a supercharger kit by the end of December but I really can't make up my mind. I have a few nags about each kit.

The AA kit is great and comes intercooled but runs at 8 psi. It will also be a little but more labor intensive with the installation b/c the bumper needs to be removed. The price is great. What is everybody's opinion on the software? Any issues? I know generally in most cars you would get it tuned, but since it comes with reflashed software, does the fuel curves not need to be tuned? Also, it seems as though AA only has kits up to 03. I don't know if there is any software issues that prevent from installing in an 04. Is there an OBD discrepancy? Also, is the Rotrex on the AA kit already maxed out? Is there another pulley to up the boost?

The VF engineering kit looks good. The main reason why I am not inclined to this one is b/c there is no option for a cooler at the moment. And it says that for the 04-05 year, the kit is still in development.

The ESS, I am not to impressed with. The fit/finish of the kit looks subpar and bland compared to the engine bay. It looks very out of place. I also don't like the accrodian intake duct.

Technik's I am probably going to stray away from b/c the oil pan needs to be tapped that is something I am very uncomfortable with. I have done my fair share of bolt ons, but I have never had to drill a hole into a critical part of the engine before.

What are you thoughts and opinions? What is your experience with these kits? I am looked for a good boost in power (~300 whp) and anything within $5-6 is great. I also want something I can upgrade maybe up to stg 2 or 3 in the future. I know most of these kits fall within that price. Thanks.

[AlexM105]

If I were to get a supercharger, I would probably go for an Active Autowerke one. I have their performance software, and it's great. The only reasom why I might reconsider that is because they are 3000 miles away from me now (:(), but if you're good with cars, that won't be an issue for you...

I've heard of good things from Technik and VF as well. ESS has been gettin' a few complaints lately, but I'm still planning on gettin' their transmission software for my Step tranny some time in the future.

Hope that helps. :thumbup:

[ritos530i]

Just a note, most owners that has had a kit for a while are all selling their kits for a TS kit which AA and ESS only carries currently. ESS kit can be done by you at home and ship the ecu to AZ over the weekend. AA kit, you may have to ship your car to them for a few weeks but just ask them. In the past they have offered a DIY type kit but i am not sure how they will do the TS style kits.
Another note is because the TS kit has been the thing to get, all the other kits are going on sale. But do not quote me on this.

[xmltok]

drilling the oil pan for the technik kit is a pretty simple job. after doing it i have a hard time imagining messing it up.

[Asbjorn@ESS]

The ESS, I am not to impressed with. The fit/finish of the kit looks subpar and bland compared to the engine bay. It looks very out of place. I also don't like the accrodian intake duct.

Are we looking at the same kit?

I would't exactly say our kit looks sub-par when it is in fact the most advanced kit ever produced for the M52TU/M54 engines, and the overall material quality is the best you can buy. No expense has been spared in designing and building this kit, and still you feel it is sub-par? Well, to each his own opinion:) Good luck on choosing a kit!:thumbsup:

[NeoGeo]

Well, I am planning on buying a supercharger kit by the end of December but I really can't make up my mind. I have a few nags about each kit.

The AA kit is great and comes intercooled but runs at 8 psi. It will also be a little but more labor intensive with the installation b/c the bumper needs to be removed. The price is great. What is everybody's opinion on the software? Any issues? I know generally in most cars you would get it tuned, but since it comes with reflashed software, does the fuel curves not need to be tuned? Also, it seems as though AA only has kits up to 03. I don't know if there is any software issues that prevent from installing in an 04. Is there an OBD discrepancy? Also, is the Rotrex on the AA kit already maxed out? Is there another pulley to up the boost?

The VF engineering kit looks good. The main reason why I am not inclined to this one is b/c there is no option for a cooler at the moment. And it says that for the 04-05 year, the kit is still in development.

The ESS, I am not to impressed with. The fit/finish of the kit looks subpar and bland compared to the engine bay. It looks very out of place. I also don't like the accrodian intake duct.

Technik's I am probably going to stray away from b/c the oil pan needs to be tapped that is something I am very uncomfortable with. I have done my fair share of bolt ons, but I have never had to drill a hole into a critical part of the engine before.

What are you thoughts and opinions? What is your experience with these kits? I am looked for a good boost in power (~300 whp) and anything within $5-6 is great. I also want something I can upgrade maybe up to stg 2 or 3 in the future. I know most of these kits fall within that price. Thanks.

I'm going to go for the VF kit.. the build quality is quite good. I'll wait for the intercooler.

[Maestroxl]

I'm getting the new ESS twinscrew stage II, I think it looks awesome and gives great power.
:thumbsup:

[K2merckx]

I am new in the supercharger arena so I am still learning more and more every day I come to this site. I have been to all the manufacturers sites and tried to learn as much about each one as I could. And I will probably get burned for this but I am still trying to figure out which ones offer superchargers for my vehicle (2004 330Ci). I will get burned for this as well but I am driving the steptronic which from what I have read does not make too much difference in the supercharger as long as I am not adding to much boost? I guess my question is pretty general. I am just looking for a good quality manufacturer that has produced a supercharger for some increased HP and Torque (preferably on the bottom end) that will not screw with the current ultimate driving machine.

[AlexM105]

I am new in the supercharger arena so I am still learning more and more every day I come to this site. I have been to all the manufacturers sites and tried to learn as much about each one as I could. And I will probably get burned for this but I am still trying to figure out which ones offer superchargers for my vehicle (2004 330Ci). I will get burned for this as well but I am driving the steptronic which from what I have read does not make too much difference in the supercharger as long as I am not adding to much boost? I guess my question is pretty general. I am just looking for a good quality manufacturer that has produced a supercharger for some increased HP and Torque (preferably on the bottom end) that will not screw with the current ultimate driving machine.
Automatics just can't handle as much boost as a manual, so if you do supercharge it, I would advise to not go over 8psi, although a few have, but it's a risk that you have to be willing to take...

When I lived back in Miami I asked Active Autowerke about supercharging an automatic (since mine is too) and they actually told me that their first supercharged car was an automatic. :thumbup:

[TaZaM3]

Well, I am planning on buying a supercharger kit by the end of December but I really can't make up my mind. I have a few nags about each kit.

The AA kit is great and comes intercooled but runs at 8 psi. It will also be a little but more labor intensive with the installation b/c the bumper needs to be removed. The price is great. What is everybody's opinion on the software? Any issues? I know generally in most cars you would get it tuned, but since it comes with reflashed software, does the fuel curves not need to be tuned? Also, it seems as though AA only has kits up to 03. I don't know if there is any software issues that prevent from installing in an 04. Is there an OBD discrepancy? Also, is the Rotrex on the AA kit already maxed out? Is there another pulley to up the boost?

I would definitely look at the AA kit. Sure the bumper needs to come off, but most of the other kits need the bumper to come off also. Only b/c the intercooler needs to be put in place, some of the others dont even have a intercooler.

Software AA has got down to a hair, just send the ECU get it back and you are done.

AA has kits for everything, just give them a call.

AA also has the centrifugel SC kit and a twin screw for your car, pick what you want.

The rotrex is a great unit, its not really maxxed out theres always upgrades you can talk to AA about.

The VF engineering kit looks good. The main reason why I am not inclined to this one is b/c there is no option for a cooler at the moment. And it says that for the 04-05 year, the kit is still in development.

No coolerm no good. All their kits are still in development meanwhile other guys have the kits out for awhile.

The ESS, I am not to impressed with. The fit/finish of the kit looks subpar and bland compared to the engine bay. It looks very out of place. I also don't like the accrodian intake duct.

You have to tap into the oil with their kit also. Are you talking about their centrifugel kit or twin screw? Their twin screw looks pretty impressive.


What are you thoughts and opinions? What is your experience with these kits? I am looked for a good boost in power (~300 whp) and anything within $5-6 is great. I also want something I can upgrade maybe up to stg 2 or 3 in the future. I know most of these kits fall within that price. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Like i said AA is a great option!

[Minnoe07]

Yea, maxing out the blower is what I was worried about with the AA Rotrex. The bumper isn't really a problem.

Asbjorn, I was not referring the TS kit that ESS offers. In fact, that one looks beautiful in that car. I would get a TS kit but they are a bit pricey. The rotrex and centrifugal blowers are a lot cheaper to increase in power. The TS has the big $2000 jump to intercool it.

xmltok, did you remove the pan before drilling? The tecknik kit is really impressive and I am amazed at the quality of product but the installation is really what i am worried about and I don't want to pay somebody to do it.

For some reason, the AA kit doesn't seem as daunting as the Tecknik's kit.

[xmltok]

Yea, maxing out the blower is what I was worried about with the AA Rotrex. The bumper isn't really a problem.

Asbjorn, I was not referring the TS kit that ESS offers. In fact, that one looks beautiful in that car. I would get a TS kit but they are a bit pricey. The rotrex and centrifugal blowers are a lot cheaper to increase in power. The TS has the big $2000 jump to intercool it.

xmltok, did you remove the pan before drilling? The tecknik kit is really impressive and I am amazed at the quality of product but the installation is really what i am worried about and I don't want to pay somebody to do it.

For some reason, the AA kit doesn't seem as daunting as the Tecknik's kit.

I did not remove the pan, I simply drilled slowly. There is about an inch of space before the oil pan is there, its easy to stop the drill before you hit the pump. You would need some very bad reflexes to keep drilling once you made it through the pan. Even then the pump itself looks like some kind of hard metal and I don't think there is any way you could drill into it by accident. Maybe put a little ding in it if you were pushing too hard on the drill.

[redronin]

the installation is really what i am worried about and I don't want to pay somebody to do it.

For some reason, the AA kit doesn't seem as daunting as the Tecknik's kit.

please if you are worried about taking off the bumper leave the install to proffesionals. although i would never call it daunting, or even particularly difficult, well the line between easy and difficult is a very thick one


trust me if you are going to install a centrifugal supercahrger you WILL leave behind skin blood, sweat, and a string of curses that will have you banned from your mothers kitchen for the rest of the day.

[redronin]

I did not remove the pan, I simply drilled slowly. There is about an inch of space before the oil pan is there, its easy to stop the drill before you hit the pump. You would need some very bad reflexes to keep drilling once you made it through the pan. Even then the pump itself looks like some kind of hard metal and I don't think there is any way you could drill into it by accident. Maybe put a little ding in it if you were pushing too hard on the drill.

what about the 22mm hole which the banjo bolt slides into? how do you make that hole? i dont have a drill bit 22mm wide!!!i havent gotten this far yet, but i cant find any solid literature on it. gonna have my friend who is a hotrod guy show me how.

[xmltok]

you use a hole saw http://www.mytoolstore.com/dewalt/d180016.jpg and http://www.mytoolstore.com/dewalt/dw1818.jpg goes in it. it only costs a few bucks.

you will need a 90 degree drill. I bought a Makita DA3010F since I figured I was saving myself 1k by doing the installation myself. You can probably rent one locally.

[redronin]

you use a hole saw http://www.mytoolstore.com/dewalt/d180016.jpg and http://www.mytoolstore.com/dewalt/dw1818.jpg goes in it. it only costs a few bucks.

you will need a 90 degree drill. I bought a Makita DA3010F since I figured I was saving myself 1k by doing the installation myself. You can probably rent one locally.

they thanks for the pic. you did the drilling while the tank was on the car i assume. the plug came out with that drillbit then? did you just flush the tank with oil then?

[MarvelPhx]

You have to tap into the oil with their kit also. Are you talking about their centrifugel kit or twin screw? Their twin screw looks pretty impressive.

There is not a single ESS kit that I know of that ever tapped the oil pan if that is what you are referring to. You do insert a T at the oil pressure sensor to feed the blower. All ASA/Vortech superchargers, regardless of kit manufacturer, need engine oil feed. The Twin Screw doesn't need oil supply or drain connections at all; it is self contained.

Asbjorn, I was not referring the TS kit that ESS offers. In fact, that one looks beautiful in that car. I would get a TS kit but they are a bit pricey. The rotrex and centrifugal blowers are a lot cheaper to increase in power. The TS has the big $2000 jump to intercool it.

For some reason, the AA kit doesn't seem as daunting as the Tecknik's kit.

That $2000 includes a lot more than a simple air/air intercooler you find on other kits. For what you get, the prices TS kits are going for out there provide much more bang for the buck by far. And there is no question in my mind that they are superior to a centrifugal. Hell, my gas mileage got better after switching from ASA to Lysholm. And I drive this harder.

The AA and Technik kits are not even remotely close in design, so it is subjective to say which is more "daunting". You have to tap the oil pan and possibly grind an accessory bracket with Technik ASA, yet install an entire seperate oil tank, pump, supply & drain circuit, and primer for any Rotrex SC system.

And the Rotrex ball friction drive is not perfect. They can vary in boost output and will slowly degrade over time. Similiar to a automatic transmission slipping and losing operational stability over time. They also require a lot more power to turn due to this viscous coupling. That is the reason that so many Rotrex drive belts slip or snap. You have any idea how hard it is to break a 6PK drive belt?? It is nothing against AA at all, it is just how the Rotrex are designed.

[xmltok]

they thanks for the pic. you did the drilling while the tank was on the car i assume. the plug came out with that drillbit then? did you just flush the tank with oil then?

i changed the oil yeah. I did not flush it, it doesnt really get many shreds into the pan. I fished them out with my finger. The plug actually rolled back into the pan but it was easy to get out.

[TaZaM3]

There is not a single ESS kit that I know of that ever tapped the oil pan if that is what you are referring to. You do insert a T at the oil pressure sensor to feed the blower. All ASA/Vortech superchargers, regardless of kit manufacturer, need engine oil feed. The Twin Screw doesn't need oil supply or drain connections at all; it is self contained.

Tapping into is tapping into.



The AA and Technik kits are not even remotely close in design, so it is subjective to say which is more "daunting". You have to tap the oil pan and possibly grind an accessory bracket with Technik ASA, yet install an entire seperate oil tank, pump, supply & drain circuit, and primer for any Rotrex SC system.

All the Rotrex needs for the install is the little tank, and oil feed lines. Its very simple and much easier then tapping into anything. Also no strain on the engine oil, which a big plus.

And the Rotrex ball friction drive is not perfect. They can vary in boost output and will slowly degrade over time. Similiar to a automatic transmission slipping and losing operational stability over time. They also require a lot more power to turn due to this viscous coupling. That is the reason that so many Rotrex drive belts slip or snap. You have any idea how hard it is to break a 6PK drive belt?? It is nothing against AA at all, it is just how the Rotrex are designed.

I think the rotrex is designed pretty well. For a little blower like that to make my car run so well, im extremely impressed. After all from all the stock internal M3's dyno'd mine did produce the highest numbers/times with a rotrex.

Ive never heard/seen rotrex belts snapping, ive only heard of it slipping and thats on the M3 not on the 330's. When it slips it goes through other pulleys and cuts itseld thus it looks like it snapped. And this only happened b/c bracket wasnt aligned correctly, also a 8 rib system has completely eliminated this issue.

[steelgrey330ci]

I think you have to look at something that has a long term track record. The ess twin screw looks great and sound great too but what is the long term.

I personally have the ASA TM15 unit and I've been happy with it.Yes you have to tap into the oil pan but its not that bad. The market is really starting to offer alot of different options for our cars and it is coming down to preference of a FI system. In the end you have to look for something that is upgradable,easy to maintain and will give you the amount of HP that you demand from it.

Good luck its not easy

[M3_Jaydee]

For the record. I had 2 rotrex breakdowns in 5500km...

[TaZaM3]

For the record. I had 2 rotrex breakdowns in 5500km...

For the record you cant follow any instructions.

[Minnoe07]

Lol.... I assume you guys know each other. ^^

Jaydee, do you still have the Rotrex kit?

What happened with your breakdowns and if you know, what caused them?

I e-mail AA yesterday with a laundry list of questions and I hope they will answer soon. I will probably give them a call tomorrow as well.

I wasn't really worried about the technical aspects of removing the bumper. I was just nervous cause I've never had to do it to a car before. I have had my fair share of bloody knuckles, cut up forearms, and mashed fingers from lengthy install. My last one being a header install on a V6 FWD Tiburon. Not fun trying to get the half closest to the firewall.

AND, I however can follow directions.

Where is the website for this ASA kit? I have been looking and can't seem to find it?

Don't get me wrong. The TS kits are awesome and I would buy one IF i had $7000+ to blow on a kit. BUT, for the money, the rotrex and centrifugal kits produce more horsepower. Stage II on the centrifugal and Rotrex (assuming it had one) would be a simple pulley swap for a good gain in HP. The TS kit Stg II is the water-to-air cooler for $2000 and you get less HP than a pulley swap.

[ritos530i]

http://www.activeautowerke.com/

[Asbjorn@ESS]

The M54B30 TS1 6.5PSI is 5500USD, it generates 280rwhp non-IC
The M54B30 TS2 8PSI is 7500USD, it generates 300+rwhp with IC
The M54B30 TS2+ 8.5PSI is also 7500USD, requires headers and/or cams, and generates 340+rwhp.

All ESS TS kits share the same major components, and the TS1 is fully upgradeable to TS2/TS2+/TS3/TS4. The TS kits and intercoolers are dimensioned for 500+HP, which will be available in the upcoming stages that includes among other things upgraded engine internals. Meaning you can purchase a TS1 today which will give you a very good hp and an unbeaten torque increase for 5500USD and this same kit can be the basis for your 500+HP 14PSI monster down the road. There is no other kit available that provides the same horsepower, torque and upgradeability out of the box for this price, period.

This kit has been durability tested by us for almost 3 years, the major components of the kit is used by oem's like Mercruiser, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, etc so the quality of both the SC unit and intercooler system is well proven, much more so than any CF kit out there and the entire package is tested by us to perform under the most extreme conditions for a very long time. We feel this TS kit is the future for M52TU/M54 forced induction as it has so many advantages over CF's and absolutely no disadvantage except for a small price difference.

To illustrate this difference, would you purchase a 325 for $45.000 or a new M6 for $55.000? This is basically what it boils down to. Both will work, but the M6 is by far the best value of the two at this price setting.

If this was not the case we would go back to producing our old (and very cheap to produce..) Vortech V2SQ based M52TU/M54 kits (manfactured from 2000-2003 by ESS and it seems the same basic kit with a few minor changes is still being manufactured by other vendors that must have liked our design:hi:) and sell them for $4500 and make a shitload more profit doing that, but we feel the TS is a much better value for the consumers at $5500.

I have attached a pic of our ~7 year old Vortech M52TU/M54 design for your reference.

http://www.dtmpower.net/featured_car/april/april.htm

http://www.dtmpower.net/pictures/ess/writeup_ess.html

[ritos530i]

I would not agree more with Asbjorn about getting a TS kit.
For the money it is by far a better kit than any other. Unless you want to go with a Turbo. This is just my opinion and has nothing to do with a company per say. (Research) Neither company offers a kit for my car yet so this is an open statement based on research. Also the TS kit has proven to out run a car with higher hp because of the torgue curve coming in so much sooner than the centri style SC. 1800- redline for the TS kit and Centri kit 3000 or 3500 to redline for full boost. Could be off a few rpm.
Just do a search in this forum and you will see.

Agian I know AA and ESS carries this kit but i am not pushing the kit either way. But people aren't saling their kits cheap for nothing.

[K2merckx]

I am with Minnoe07 as far as emailing these companies. I have emailed a couple for a little further info and questions regarding their product and have not heard from any of them. They must be very busy trying to keep up with these boards or something. I hope this is not how customer service is with the companies once I have purchased their supercharger.

[TaZaM3]

Lol.... I assume you guys know each other. ^^

Not really, we have our differences thats all. He unfortunately had problems with his AA kit but i also heard stories about the kit that possible make his problems invalid.

Jaydee, do you still have the Rotrex kit?

Nope, he went to his neighbor and had a ASA blower swapped on.

What happened with your breakdowns and if you know, what caused them?

He might have bought a used kit as i was told. He also never had the right software on the car, he refused to send the ECU to AA for some odd reason.


Don't get me wrong. The TS kits are awesome and I would buy one IF i had $7000+ to blow on a kit. BUT, for the money, the rotrex and centrifugal kits produce more horsepower. Stage II on the centrifugal and Rotrex (assuming it had one) would be a simple pulley swap for a good gain in HP. The TS kit Stg II is the water-to-air cooler for $2000 and you get less HP than a pulley swap.

Then stick with the centri kits, no problem with that. Also remember the stages on kits can all be marketing. One companies stage 1 can equal another companies stage 2. I think AA's stage 1 is 8psi which is the same as ESS's stage 2. So technically you are getting the same level kit for 2600 dollars cheaper!

Also AA shows the 277rwhp dyno on their site on a mustang dyno, of which i know reads very low. Without any doubt i bet the AA stage 1will put out at least 290rwhp.

[TaZaM3]

The M54B30 TS1 6.5PSI is 5500USD, it generates 280rwhp non-IC
The M54B30 TS2 8PSI is 7500USD, it generates 300+rwhp with IC
The M54B30 TS2+ 8.5PSI is also 7500USD, requires headers and/or cams, and generates 340+rwhp.

All ESS TS kits share the same major components, and the TS1 is fully upgradeable to TS2/TS2+/TS3/TS4. The TS kits and intercoolers are dimensioned for 500+HP, which will be available in the upcoming stages that includes among other things upgraded engine internals. Meaning you can purchase a TS1 today which will give you a very good hp and an unbeaten torque increase for 5500USD and this same kit can be the basis for your 500+HP 14PSI monster down the road. There is no other kit available that provides the same horsepower, torque and upgradeability out of the box for this price, period.

This kit has been durability tested by us for almost 3 years, the major components of the kit is used by oem's like Mercruiser, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, etc so the quality of both the SC unit and intercooler system is well proven, much more so than any CF kit out there and the entire package is tested by us to perform under the most extreme conditions for a very long time. We feel this TS kit is the future for M52TU/M54 forced induction as it has so many advantages over CF's and absolutely no disadvantage except for a small price difference.

To illustrate this difference, would you purchase a 325 for $45.000 or a new M6 for $55.000? This is basically what it boils down to. Both will work, but the M6 is by far the best value of the two at this price setting.

If this was not the case we would go back to producing our old (and very cheap to produce..) Vortech V2SQ based M52TU/M54 kits (manfactured from 2000-2003 by ESS and it seems the same basic kit with a few minor changes is still being manufactured by other vendors that must have liked our design:hi:) and sell them for $4500 and make a shitload more profit doing that, but we feel the TS is a much better value for the consumers at $5500.

I have attached a pic of our ~7 year old Vortech M52TU/M54 design for your reference.

http://www.dtmpower.net/featured_car/april/april.htm

http://www.dtmpower.net/pictures/ess/writeup_ess.html


The only company i have ever seen go on the web and put others competitors down so frequently. Does this serve a purpose to you?

Also he is clearly talking about centri kits, so whats the point of throwing all that marketing mumbo jumbo about your TS kit here?

You stopped using the Vortech only b/c its easier to get in the US and it sucks for small displacement motors.

[Minnoe07]

Well, I just got off the phone with an AA representative and if the person I talked to represents AA, I wouldn't really want to buy a kit from them. He was very curt and unhelpful. Did not seem appreciative at all that a customer wanted to spend over 5 grand with his company. I don't expect exceptional customer service, but I was not expecting that. Anyways, besides that rant....

AA said they do not have any kits in production or ready for the 2004+ E46 330's. He said it would be out by mid-January. Well, maybe I will go with Technik's kit then.

Thanks AA for the awesome customer service! :thumbdwn:

[TaZaM3]

Well, I just got off the phone with an AA representative and if the person I talked to represents AA, I wouldn't really want to buy a kit from them. He was very curt and unhelpful. Did not seem appreciative at all that a customer wanted to spend over 5 grand with his company. I don't expect exceptional customer service, but I was not expecting that. Anyways, besides that rant....

AA said they do not have any kits in production or ready for the 2004+ E46 330's. He said it would be out by mid-January. Well, maybe I will go with Technik's kit then.

Thanks AA for the awesome customer service! :thumbdwn:

Who did you talk to?

I know they have the kit in production but are not ready to ship until next month.

[steelgrey330ci]

Go for Technik kit, They always get more power to the wheels anyways.

[TaZaM3]

Go for Technik kit, They always get more power to the wheels anyways.

On dynojets yes..

[Active Autowerke]

Well, I just got off the phone with an AA representative and if the person I talked to represents AA, I wouldn't really want to buy a kit from them. He was very curt and unhelpful. Did not seem appreciative at all that a customer wanted to spend over 5 grand with his company. I don't expect exceptional customer service, but I was not expecting that. Anyways, besides that rant....

AA said they do not have any kits in production or ready for the 2004+ E46 330's. He said it would be out by mid-January. Well, maybe I will go with Technik's kit then.

Thanks AA for the awesome customer service! :thumbdwn:

It was me you spoke with. I apologize if you were offended.

I am not here to lie to you and neither is our company. The soonest we would be shipping these kits out is mid January because we test everything thouroughly before offering it to the public. I want to make sure the product you are being shipped is something solid. I have never rushed anything. You asked me a simple question which I answered. Sorry for any misuderstanding sometimes it gets hectic around here and I try to attend to all customers.

I treat all customers with equal respect wether it be a $54 drop in filter or $10,000 SC kit. If you have any other questions please feel free to call me and we can go over everything in detail.

Hopefully there are no hard feelings.

[TaZaM3]

It was me you spoke with. I apologize if you were offended.

I am not here to lie to you and neither is our company. The soonest we would be shipping these kits out is mid January because we test everything thouroughly before offering it to the public. I want to make sure the product you are being shipped is something solid. I have never rushed anything. You asked me a simple question which I answered. Sorry for any misuderstanding sometimes it gets hectic around here and I try to attend to all customers.

I treat all customers with equal respect wether it be a $54 drop in filter or $10,000 SC kit. If you have any other questions please feel free to call me and we can go over everything in detail.

Hopefully there are no hard feelings.


:clap:

[Minnoe07]

No hard feelings. It wasn't the fact that you didn't have the kit. It was the fact that you were very uncaring about answering my questions.

Trust me, I deal in retail. I am not one of those people who thinks pitching a fit will make something impossible appear out of nowhere.

Thanks for the reply tho.

So if I wait til January to buy the kit, can I still get the special $4995 price?

[Minnoe07]

Sorry to double post but I just made my decision and finalized it by putting money to it.

Hello ESS twinscrew sometime in January!

ugghh... I don't want to wait that long.:cry:

[mike greco]

great info

[ritos530i]

PM works everytime.

[norwE46ian]

Sorry to double post but I just made my decision and finalized it by putting money to it.

Hello ESS twinscrew sometime in January!

ugghh... I don't want to wait that long.:cry:

Good choice, I love mine.

[norwE46ian]

The only company i have ever seen go on the web and put others competitors down so frequently. Does this serve a purpose to you?

Also he is clearly talking about centri kits, so whats the point of throwing all that marketing mumbo jumbo about your TS kit here?

You stopped using the Vortech only b/c its easier to get in the US and it sucks for small displacement motors.


Does it bother you that ESS have the best kit available for the E46?

[OCswedishM3]

Does it bother you that ESS have the best kit available for the E46?

Hahaha...i hope your not referring to the M3.
The 330 TS is quite impressive though, i think they did a great job

[M3_Jaydee]

For the record you cant follow any instructions.
Again.... U dont know a **** about me or my kit or anything for that matter you're just a puppet doing your job :loco:
Lol.... I assume you guys know each other. ^^

Jaydee, do you still have the Rotrex kit?

What happened with your breakdowns and if you know, what caused them?

I e-mail AA yesterday with a laundry list of questions and I hope they will answer soon. I will probably give them a call tomorrow as well.

I wasn't really worried about the technical aspects of removing the bumper. I was just nervous cause I've never had to do it to a car before. I have had my fair share of bloody knuckles, cut up forearms, and mashed fingers from lengthy install. My last one being a header install on a V6 FWD Tiburon. Not fun trying to get the half closest to the firewall.

AND, I however can follow directions.

Where is the website for this ASA kit? I have been looking and can't seem to find it?

Don't get me wrong. The TS kits are awesome and I would buy one IF i had $7000+ to blow on a kit. BUT, for the money, the rotrex and centrifugal kits produce more horsepower. Stage II on the centrifugal and Rotrex (assuming it had one) would be a simple pulley swap for a good gain in HP. The TS kit Stg II is the water-to-air cooler for $2000 and you get less HP than a pulley swap.
I still have it in a box in ny garage, just got my 3rd rotrex from the swedish AA dealer BEASTPOWER SCANDINAVIA LTD where the kit was bought earlier this year NEW! (not my misstake)
The install of the AA kit was made by ALUTECH raceparts, one of swedens best.
The breakdowns (both) happend while crusing (low rpm) down the highway.
THE SOFTWARE WERE MADE BUY A DANISH GUY NAMED RUBEN OR SOMTHING, THAT CLAIMES TO HAVE MADE SOFTWARE FOR AA!
The same guy that tried to help the english AA dealer CA, with their problems on the AA kits.
I got tired of this so i swapped to the new ESS e46 m3 kit with the ASA tm20, not on market yet and I'm very happy with the results.
Both my Rotrexes made diffrent boost aswell.
This has been discussed here earlier so search a little as I don't got the time and energy to do it again :)
Not really, we have our differences thats all. He unfortunately had problems with his AA kit but i also heard stories about the kit that possible make his problems invalid.



Nope, he went to his neighbor and had a ASA blower swapped on.



He might have bought a used kit as i was told. He also never had the right software on the car, he refused to send the ECU to AA for some odd reason.




Then stick with the centri kits, no problem with that. Also remember the stages on kits can all be marketing. One companies stage 1 can equal another companies stage 2. I think AA's stage 1 is 8psi which is the same as ESS's stage 2. So technically you are getting the same level kit for 2600 dollars cheaper!

Also AA shows the 277rwhp dyno on their site on a mustang dyno, of which i know reads very low. Without any doubt i bet the AA stage 1will put out at least 290rwhp.

Stories is easy to make. call Beastpower Scand ltd and ask. :thumbup:

[TaZaM3]

Does it bother you that ESS have the best kit available for the E46?

I couldnt care less, although they dont. Maybe just in Norway/Sweden, but not even close in the U.S.

Again.... U dont know a **** about me or my kit or anything for that matter you're just a puppet doing your job

I know all about you, i would look at yourself before calling anyone a puppet.


For ex... (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5259542&postcount=8)

Looks like a ESS rippoff IMO

[M3_Jaydee]

I couldnt care less, although they dont. Maybe just in Norway/Sweden, but not even close in the U.S.



I know all about you, i would look at yourself before calling anyone a puppet.


For ex... (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5259542&postcount=8)

Grow up man... Dont you have eyes in that empty head of yours?
Hehe you obviously don't know anything about me, cause if you did you would'nt come breifing about AA, making lies and rumors about my kit, You hurt them more than you help them when you come to me with this **** cause I have'nt anything to gain in this...
I Had an experience and i share it to other people,... plain and simple, This is nothing against AA witch I'm sure are great guys, but when you and your fanclub (16year old virgins who never even seen a screwdriver) come blasing to "help" them out, It's just embarising and phatetic....

[TaZaM3]

Grow up man... Dont you have eyes in that empty head of yours?
Hehe you obviously don't know anything about me, cause if you did you would'nt come breifing about AA, making lies and rumors about my kit, You hurt them more than you help them when you come to me with this **** cause I have'nt anything to gain in this...
I Had an experience and i share it to other people,... plain and simple, This is nothing against AA witch I'm sure are great guys, but when you and your fanclub (16year old virgins who never even seen a screwdriver) come blasing to "help" them out, It's just embarising and phatetic....

:blah:

Everyone who has eyes can see what you are trying to pull. You have made no post other then bashing AA with bogus info, or serving as ESS's balljingler. Do us all a favor and take your foot out of your mouth before you humiliate yourself again.

Funny how you joined this forum only after you visited ESS. I wonder what they told you to do.... Big difference is i was here 6 years ago, way before i even bought anything from AA.

16 year old virgins who never seen a screwdriver?

Eek, the grammar.....

[jt330ci]

the tecknik kit is pretty good. Power feels really nice. Still havent gotten the car dynoed yet but with the videos i have all over e46 and street fire you can get a rough idea of how fast it is:thumbup:

[norwE46ian]

All I know is I wouldnt buy a kit from "professionals" who up until recently only knew how to change oil on cars.

They might have had a better kit if a cirtain someone didnt turn them down a few years ago.

[xmltok]

?

[mach330]

can we get back to topic? i hate how every other thread becomes a vendor bashing now. this great had such great potential since i'm in the market for a sc kit. the more i read..i less i feel confident about putting a blower. :thumbdwn:

i'll try a diff. forum and see if i get more info from there.

[jt330ci]

if their is thousands of people with happy blowers. Just buy one. Forget about removing bumpers and tapping oil lines. If you want more power go with this one if you want something easy to install go with this one. There is going to be a plus and a minus with every kit. Thats just life. All i can tell you is a like the tecknik one.:thanks:

[jt330ci]

if their is thousands of people with happy blowers. Just buy one. Forget about removing bumpers and tapping oil lines. If you want more power go with this one if you want something easy to install go with this one. There is going to be a plus and a minus with every kit. Thats just life. All i can tell you is I like the tecknik blower.:thanks:

[TaZaM3]

All I know is I wouldnt buy a kit from "professionals" who up until recently only knew how to change oil on cars.

They might have had a better kit if a cirtain someone didnt turn them down a few years ago.

The more i read the more i get disgusted by ESS. It is clearly obvious how ESS wants to interact with the US BMW FI community. Everything is constant competitor bashing, just shows how badly envious they are of them.

You clearly loving stirring the pot (both you and Jaydee joined recently only to talk crap about vendors except for ESS, since both of you are from over there) so why dont you just come out and say it instead of trying to hint crap.

[M3_Jaydee]

The more i read the more i get disgusted by ESS. It is clearly obvious how ESS wants to interact with the US BMW FI community. Everything is constant competitor bashing, just shows how badly envious they are of them.

You clearly loving stirring the pot (both you and Jaydee joined recently only to talk crap about vendors except for ESS, since both of you are from over there) so why dont you just come out and say it instead of trying to hint crap.

Get a grip, Interact with US FI market? ESS has been on that market for 11 years! AA for 3...
There are 10 times more ESS kits in the world than all the other vendors together, And I did'nt join this forum after I visited ESS :)
And I'm not the one who's taking every opertunity to bash anyone. go back and read this thread and see for your self. I have'nt got anything against AA, I have somthing against you BC of your stupid facts/evidence and experience. You're a liar, nothing more..
Now take your idiotic hallucinations and go back to whatever people like you do on your sparetime besides talkin sh!t.

[NeoGeo]

The more i read the more i get disgusted by ESS. It is clearly obvious how ESS wants to interact with the US BMW FI community. Everything is constant competitor bashing, just shows how badly envious they are of them.

You clearly loving stirring the pot (both you and Jaydee joined recently only to talk crap about vendors except for ESS, since both of you are from over there) so why dont you just come out and say it instead of trying to hint crap.

I'm beginnig to agree with you. All this bashing is getting rediculous. I want to come here for useful information, not posts about bashing companies and their kits. Each system has it's own merits, and will be bought by different people looking for different things.

I talked to the AA guys, and they were great. Their kit is awsome, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for, therefore I'm going with VF, because it is right for me.

Honestly, all the AA bashing by these two guys totally put me off of ESS. Even that post with the guy and the X5 -- that disappeared -- totally put me off of them. I've seen other pots against other vendors not be deleted... even Rennsport -- yes I've been here that long --- and I don't get why the X5 post didn't live in any form, though I do agree it had to be toned down. Furthermore, the behaviour of the two individuals bashing AA in this thread is not professional at all, and unfortunately I think it will affect ESS' perception here to some extent. Not good at all. :tsk:

That's a sad thing, because their kit is probably pretty good, and they don't need 2 people here bashing someone else's kit just to get business. I'm sure they can do it on their own merit. All this just looks bad.

[TaZaM3]

Get a grip, Interact with US FI market? ESS has been on that market for 11 years! AA for 3...
There are 10 times more ESS kits in the world than all the other vendors together, And I did'nt join this forum after I visited ESS :)
And I'm not the one who's taking every opertunity to bash anyone. go back and read this thread and see for your self. I have'nt got anything against AA, I have somthing against you BC of your stupid facts/evidence and experience. You're a liar, nothing more..
Now take your idiotic hallucinations and go back to whatever people like you do on your sparetime besides talkin sh!t.


AA for 3 years? Do you just come up with numbers in your head? I remember hearing about a celebration of over 20 years of business for AA. Its funny how you come up with BS numbers like 3 years! If you didnt know they were one of the first to build kits for BMW's including a vastly known turbo kit for the E36 model. This family owned business has done well for this community and i hate people that have to talk down upon them. They are great, intelligent guys who dont need to come on boards and talk crap. :tsk:

Remember who had an AA kit on their car, ya thats right you. Since you suck at life, you went and got manipulated by ESS. What did they do, sit you down and hypnotize you? I wonder what else they made you do while under hypnosis. :hmm: :shhh:

Anyone reading your posts can smell BS immediately. ESS has more kits in the world then all the vendors combined? AA has been in the market for 3 years? And you call me a liar? Get a life you pathelogical lying, senseless, half-witted, ludicrous, naive, meaningless, imbecile.

[chisau]

I still have it in a box in ny garage, just got my 3rd rotrex from the swedish AA dealer BEASTPOWER SCANDINAVIA LTD where the kit was bought earlier this year NEW! (not my misstake)
The install of the AA kit was made by ALUTECH raceparts, one of swedens best.
The breakdowns (both) happend while crusing (low rpm) down the highway.
THE SOFTWARE WERE MADE BUY A DANISH GUY NAMED RUBEN OR SOMTHING, THAT CLAIMES TO HAVE MADE SOFTWARE FOR AA!
The same guy that tried to help the english AA dealer CA, with their problems on the AA kits.
I got tired of this so i swapped to the new ESS e46 m3 kit with the ASA tm20, not on market yet and I'm very happy with the results.
Both my Rotrexes made diffrent boost aswell.


Anyhow, now that we know that Rotrex sucks, can you call these guys and tell them to yank them off their car that ran a 9.68 @ 146 + mph(not BMW) for the ASA's?

http://www.w2wpowertrain.com/t-novabuild-2.aspx

What were they thinking???:argue:

[TaZaM3]

Anyhow, now that we know that Rotrex sucks, can you call these guys and tell them to yank them off their car that ran a 9.68 @ 146 + mph(not BMW) for the ASA's?

http://www.w2wpowertrain.com/t-novabuild-2.aspx

What were they thinking???:argue:

LOL, Rotrex sucks... Btw that time was on pump gas.

Also lets not forget that one of the worlds fastest production car's uses two rotrex's also. (Koennigsieg)

[chisau]

:thumbup:

Taz,

Shut up and bring on the turbo! :bow:

[Nik@vf-engineering]

Maybe the guys involved in this thread can bring the tone down a little, feel free to argue as it is interesting to read, but please try to keep the personal remarks out, as this can become offensive.



....There are 10 times more ESS kits in the world than all the other vendors together....

I am not getting involved in this discussion, but the above statement is not accurate at all. VF-Engineering has been selling superchargers for 11 years for models including BMW/Audi/Porsche/VW.

[funkyman]

Nothing wrong with anyones kit,they are all wonderfull in their own way i`m sure but what i don`t understand why a person living in America would buy a kit from Europe and pay more for shipping,support etc when he or she has it right infront of him.Obviously folks in Europe should cater for Europeans and lets leave it at that.I have to admit though that pound for pound AA kits do generate more power than any other SC kit manufacturer in the world.Their current prices beat anybodies as well and at the end of the day its all about the Benjamines and howmany of them leave your pocket right heheh!!:excited:I do wish though that there was as much turbo competiton amongst the kit builders as there is for SC`s.Such a shame really.

[MarvelPhx]

LOL, Rotrex sucks...

Also lets not forget that one of the worlds fastest production car's uses two rotrex's also. (Koennigsieg)

You should do some homework before you make an example in that context. Koenigsegg is based in Sweden running only about 30 employees. They are a very small company with one simple purpose: To make the fastest street production vehicle possible aka max top speed. With the new CCX (for which you refer to), the design of the car and layout of the engine bay eliminated the possibility of installing the Lysholm as in the CCR. Space, time, and cost constraints brought them to the twin-Rotrex design as a simple, cheap solution to top speed without the need for low to mid-range power. Check out the CCX for yourself, you cant even see the front mounted SCs in the engine bay from any angle. Very little room and I can vouch for that as I climbed all over one last month. Call Koenigsegg yourself and ask them if they had room for the Lysholm, would they have kept using it?

Nothing wrong with anyones kit,they are all wonderfull in their own way i`m sure but what i don`t understand why a person living in America would buy a kit from Europe and pay more for shipping,support etc when he or she has it right infront of him.Obviously folks in Europe should cater for Europeans and lets leave it at that.I have to admit though that pound for pound AA kits do generate more power than any other SC kit manufacturer in the world.Their current prices beat anybodies as well and at the end of the day its all about the Benjamines and howmany of them leave your pocket right heheh!!:excited:I do wish though that there was as much turbo competiton amongst the kit builders as there is for SC`s.Such a shame really.

This is like saying you won't buy an BMW because it is made in Germany. Tell BMW what you said and that they should cater to Europeans only.

And lest I've said it a bunch before, there is so much more to a SC kit than power. For example:

Drivability - Most important... how does it drive? Most people that buy a SC have no idea what a SC'd car should feel like. They could assume that a hesitation, or noise, or rough power onset is "normal" for a SC, when it is not. It should drive like stock, but faster. If it doesnt, something is wrong.

Smoothness - Not at WOT, but at every other time. How is low speed response, how is part throttle transitioning, how easy is it to rev-match, etc.

Appearance - Is it what you are looking for, whether a stand-out polished and carbon fiber setup or something more OEM and "sleeper" looking. How does it "fit in" to the engine bay and the existing powerplant.

Quality of Materials - Is there a difference between .030" and .050" tubing. You bet there is. How about hose clamps, fuel injectors, bolts, brackets, etc. The little things add up to make the whole better.

Ease of Installation - What do you have to remove, how long does it take, is it DIY or shop install. What do you have to drill, cut, or relocate. Can it be done without special tools?

Programming Ability - Is it piggyback, RRFPR, MAF replacement, or DME tuned. How good is the software, how long has the company been doing it?

Reliability - How many kits are on the road without problems? What problems are there? Are any problems kit or install related? How many miles will it last?

Durability - Has it been tested? How long? Road miles or track conditions? Hot and cold climates? Is it pushed to the limit or has it been toned down a bit from max for longevity?

Upgradability - Does the kit have options to upgrade to higher stages? How hard is the upgrade? What is the cost of doing so? How far can you go if you choose to?

Cost - What does the kit cost? While important to most, it is also going on a fairly expensive car. Look up the cost of SC'n a Porsche or getting software for a Bentley and you will feel better about 5-7k for a SC on a BMW. Not to mention the cost of development and testing to make sure you get a great product. That cost has to be recouped by the manufacturers.

Cost to Operate - Do you have to change parts often? Parts like belts, oil, fittings, hoses, valves, even compressors, that fail over time, etc? What kind of maintenance is involved? Can you do the maintenance yourself?

Removal Without Scars - Can the SC be removed if necessary without leaving any scars if it ever being there? For example, installing it on a leased vehicle.

Compatibility - Does it work well with "your" car. Your transmission, DME, layout, drive systems, engine bay, RHD or LHD, etc. Is the kit available for all configurations?

Compatibility with Mods - Most people buying a SC have installed other mods. How well does it work with cold air intakes, performance exhaust, short shift kits, tranny mounts, underdrive pulleys, differentials, etc. Does it work at all?

And the list goes on... Not once did I mention max power. While a important part, there is so much more that matters than what max power it makes.

[M3_Jaydee]

AA for 3 years? Do you just come up with numbers in your head? I remember hearing about a celebration of over 20 years of business for AA. Its funny how you come up with BS numbers like 3 years! If you didnt know they were one of the first to build kits for BMW's including a vastly known turbo kit for the E36 model. This family owned business has done well for this community and i hate people that have to talk down upon them. They are great, intelligent guys who dont need to come on boards and talk crap. :tsk:

Remember who had an AA kit on their car, ya thats right you. Since you suck at life, you went and got manipulated by ESS. What did they do, sit you down and hypnotize you? I wonder what else they made you do while under hypnosis. :hmm: :shhh:

Anyone reading your posts can smell BS immediately. ESS has more kits in the world then all the vendors combined? AA has been in the market for 3 years? And you call me a liar? Get a life you pathelogical lying, senseless, half-witted, ludicrous, naive, meaningless, imbecile.

First of all, I have nothing against AA, I'm just feed up with you pretending to know everyting about me and everything about my old kit when it's very clear to see that you don't.
I have nothing to gain in this and I don't give a Fcuk if AA ESS or VF sells 1 million kits BC I don't have shares in any of them.
I had 2 Rotrex breakdowns, thats a fact. I have the same right as you or any one else to tell about my experience.
Rotrex and AA is not the same Company so why keep this going everytime i make post.
I've been working on cars for 10 years and with this beeing my 9th BMW and 3rd SC, don't you think I would check/try/Inspect everything before taking of a 10K kit?
And If I was happy with it why would I do anything at all?
I have nothing to do with ESS other than beeing and old customer, and when I had problems with the AA kit, insted of driving 6000km to Autotech, I called ESS (50km from me) and asked if they could help me out and they did in a proffesional way.
I got a new Rotrex from the Swedish AA dealer (Beastpower) and put it on, checked that everything was in order and it was.
Then I drove 5000km incl tracking as you can see in the vid in my sig without problems, at 5500km me and my girlfriend was going to Goethenburg for a holliday weekend when the 2nd Rotrex broke down crusing the highway at low rpms exactly as the first one did.
I needed to get the car running as fast as possible again because I wanted to attend to the last few happenings for the season since it's so short up here.
Since it took 3weeks to get the first rotrex from warranty, and the fear of being forced to call roadrecovery for a third time, that was not an option.
So I went to ESS to get somthing else since they've been so helpful before and I got help.
After this I have'nt had 1 issue with the SC setup.
I got a third Rotrex from warranty 1 week ago and that would be a little weird if the kit was used/stolen or what ever you've heard.

As for the 3years of AA tuning BMW, I did'nt come up with in my head, it's very easy to see if you do some searching or if you've been reading car mags for a couple of years.
I might be wrong but I recall AA to be a Oilchange company for 17 years before they started with tuning.
17+3 = 20 years in the buissnes ?
The E36 Turbo kits that AA sold were amazing but I think that Jim C should get the larger piece of credit for those.
As for your other childish dissruptions, I feel to old to get down to your level.
I Appologise to AA (not Taza) if anything I have written here is incorrect or if they feel like they need one from me.
And if you'd like to continue discussing me/my AA kit or my experience with it, try to build on some facts insted of behaiving like this.

Maybe the guys involved in this thread can bring the tone down a little, feel free to argue as it is interesting to read, but please try to keep the personal remarks out, as this can become offensive.






I am not getting involved in this discussion, but the above statement is not accurate at all. VF-Engineering has been selling superchargers for 11 years for models including BMW/Audi/Porsche/VW.

I'm sorry if I was'nt clear enough, I meant for BMWs.
congrats to your new M3 kit, it looks very nice.

You should do some homework before you make an example in that context. Koenigsegg is based in Sweden running only about 30 employees. They are a very small company with one simple purpose: To make the fastest street production vehicle possible aka max top speed. With the new CCX (for which you refer to), the design of the car and layout of the engine bay eliminated the possibility of installing the Lysholm as in the CCR. Space, time, and cost constraints brought them to the twin-Rotrex design as a simple, cheap solution to top speed without the need for low to mid-range power. Check out the CCX for yourself, you cant even see the front mounted SCs in the engine bay from any angle. Very little room and I can vouch for that as I climbed all over one last month. Call Koenigsegg yourself and ask them if they had room for the Lysholm, would they have kept using it?



This is like saying you won't buy an BMW because it is made in Germany. Tell BMW what you said and that they should cater to Europeans only.

And lest I've said it a bunch before, there is so much more to a SC kit than power. For example:

Drivability - Most important... how does it drive? Most people that buy a SC have no idea what a SC'd car should feel like. They could assume that a hesitation, or noise, or rough power onset is "normal" for a SC, when it is not. It should drive like stock, but faster. If it doesnt, something is wrong.

Smoothness - Not at WOT, but at every other time. How is low speed response, how is part throttle transitioning, how easy is it to rev-match, etc.

Appearance - Is it what you are looking for, whether a stand-out polished and carbon fiber setup or something more OEM and "sleeper" looking. How does it "fit in" to the engine bay and the existing powerplant.

Quality of Materials - Is there a difference between .030" and .050" tubing. You bet there is. How about hose clamps, fuel injectors, bolts, brackets, etc. The little things add up to make the whole better.

Ease of Installation - What do you have to remove, how long does it take, is it DIY or shop install. What do you have to drill, cut, or relocate. Can it be done without special tools?

Programming Ability - Is it piggyback, RRFPR, MAF replacement, or DME tuned. How good is the software, how long has the company been doing it?

Reliability - How many kits are on the road without problems? What problems are there? Are any problems kit or install related? How many miles will it last?

Durability - Has it been tested? How long? Road miles or track conditions? Hot and cold climates? Is it pushed to the limit or has it been toned down a bit from max for longevity?

Upgradability - Does the kit have options to upgrade to higher stages? How hard is the upgrade? What is the cost of doing so? How far can you go if you choose to?

Cost - What does the kit cost? While important to most, it is also going on a fairly expensive car. Look up the cost of SC'n a Porsche or getting software for a Bentley and you will feel better about 5-7k for a SC on a BMW. Not to mention the cost of development and testing to make sure you get a great product. That cost has to be recouped by the manufacturers.

Cost to Operate - Do you have to change parts often? Parts like belts, oil, fittings, hoses, valves, even compressors, that fail over time, etc? What kind of maintenance is involved? Can you do the maintenance yourself?

Removal Without Scars - Can the SC be removed if necessary without leaving any scars if it ever being there? For example, installing it on a leased vehicle.

Compatibility - Does it work well with "your" car. Your transmission, DME, layout, drive systems, engine bay, RHD or LHD, etc. Is the kit available for all configurations?

Compatibility with Mods - Most people buying a SC have installed other mods. How well does it work with cold air intakes, performance exhaust, short shift kits, tranny mounts, underdrive pulleys, differentials, etc. Does it work at all?

And the list goes on... Not once did I mention max power. While a important part, there is so much more that matters than what max power it makes.

:werd:

Sorry for the space this worthless disscusion has taken in this thread. :bow:

[TaZaM3]

You should do some homework before you make an example in that context. Koenigsegg is based in Sweden running only about 30 employees. They are a very small company with one simple purpose: To make the fastest street production vehicle possible aka max top speed. With the new CCX (for which you refer to), the design of the car and layout of the engine bay eliminated the possibility of installing the Lysholm as in the CCR. Space, time, and cost constraints brought them to the twin-Rotrex design as a simple, cheap solution to top speed without the need for low to mid-range power. Check out the CCX for yourself, you cant even see the front mounted SCs in the engine bay from any angle. Very little room and I can vouch for that as I climbed all over one last month. Call Koenigsegg yourself and ask them if they had room for the Lysholm, would they have kept using it?

So they only used the Rotrex blowers b/c theres no room. Thats a complete utter lie, did you design the car? I doubt any car production company would be dumb enough to leave engine designs at the end to only realize theres no room for certain modifications. For a company of 30 people they are doing damn good job.

The CCX is faster then the previous model, so i guess that already proves something? I never said a twin screw is bad, i own a car with one on it so i know how it feels. I was just replying to remarks about the Rotrex being so bad. The only reason i would like a twin screw is for early TQ anyways, other then that its the same as a proper CF (not a big vortech on a 3.0 litre).

ESS's first kits were big vortechs which werent designed properly for the 3 series kits (vouched by you), i guess they should have done some more testing...




I agree with the kit buying strategy you have extensively written above. That is exactly why i chose what i did..

[E46M3Cabrio]

Well, I am planning on buying a supercharger kit by the end of December but I really can't make up my mind. I have a few nags about each kit.

The AA kit is great and comes intercooled but runs at 8 psi. It will also be a little but more labor intensive with the installation b/c the bumper needs to be removed. The price is great. What is everybody's opinion on the software? Any issues? I know generally in most cars you would get it tuned, but since it comes with reflashed software, does the fuel curves not need to be tuned? Also, it seems as though AA only has kits up to 03. I don't know if there is any software issues that prevent from installing in an 04. Is there an OBD discrepancy? Also, is the Rotrex on the AA kit already maxed out? Is there another pulley to up the boost?

The VF engineering kit looks good. The main reason why I am not inclined to this one is b/c there is no option for a cooler at the moment. And it says that for the 04-05 year, the kit is still in development.

The ESS, I am not to impressed with. The fit/finish of the kit looks subpar and bland compared to the engine bay. It looks very out of place. I also don't like the accrodian intake duct.

Technik's I am probably going to stray away from b/c the oil pan needs to be tapped that is something I am very uncomfortable with. I have done my fair share of bolt ons, but I have never had to drill a hole into a critical part of the engine before.

What are you thoughts and opinions? What is your experience with these kits? I am looked for a good boost in power (~300 whp) and anything within $5-6 is great. I also want something I can upgrade maybe up to stg 2 or 3 in the future. I know most of these kits fall within that price. Thanks.



My best friend had his aa SC kit Stg2 installed on his E46 M3 last month..

His car is 2005 model..
since the day he had SC , he hasnt had any problem..neither with ECU either

[MarvelPhx]

So they only used the Rotrex blowers b/c theres no room. Thats a complete utter lie, did you design the car? I doubt any car production company would be dumb enough to leave engine designs at the end to only realize theres no room for certain modifications. For a company of 30 people they are doing damn good job.

The CCX is faster then the previous model, so i guess that already proves something? I never said a twin screw is bad, i own a car with one on it so i know how it feels. I was just replying to remarks about the Rotrex being so bad. The only reason i would like a twin screw is for early TQ anyways, other then that its the same as a proper CF (not a big vortech on a 3.0 litre).

ESS's first kits were big vortechs which werent designed properly for the 3 series kits (vouched by you), i guess they should have done some more testing...

I agree with the kit buying strategy you have extensively written above. That is exactly why i chose what i did..

Not a lie, ask Koenigsegg themslelves or read around. Its all out there in the public domain. Don't get me wrong, I personally agree the Koenigseggs are great exotic cars, but using the change to Rotrex from Lysholm as an example isn't logical without all the facts. More to the story.

As for the Vortech V2SQ, they are still too big for the 3.0 liter I6 and below. Back over 6 years ago when ESS came out with the VT kits, the Vortech was about the only option for SCs. Then the ASA came along and the Vortechs went bye bye on the 3.0 liter I6 and less engines. That being the result of testing. ESS won't touch the Rotrex and Rotrex is practically next door in Denmark. Again, the result of testing.

Thank you for the comments on the "strategy" above.

[russ330]

Everyone cut the crap.

If I see one more post in this thread bickering, insulting, etc., I will ban the offending member for 3 days.

No infractions, no leniency.

[silver330ciman]

No need to write off the vortech...For those on limted budget, there are some bargain deals on the used ESS VT kits. I'm not sure how other centri SC or TS feels, but the VT kit seems freakin fast enough for around $2k. This kit is proven to be very durable and trouble free as well. I really wanted to buy the new TS kit, but decided to spend the left over $3k on TSE3, PSS9, and BBKs. My car is getting up there with the mileage, so I figured the centri blower might be easier on my engine on daily driving basis around Japan anyway.

[akoutoudis]

To answer the orginal question. Last April I had a AA supercharger installed on my 2001 330i by Azevado Motorworks in Linden NJ. I actually went to AA in Miami and met with Omar (I'm from NJ). I toured their shop and he and the staff were helpful.

Azevado took 1 week to install the supercharger (including sending the cpu to Miami). My car had 41,000 miles at the time, now it has 45,000.

My first impression was that it sounded like a mini jet, there is a constant whistle. When I got on it, it took off! I had to adjust my shift points because I was able to tach out much faster. You do not feel the true power of it until @ 4500 RPM. From 4500 RPM on it really pulls. The car is FAST!

The installation they did was great, my local mechanic commented on how neat the install was.

My car averaged 24 MPG with a mix of 60% city and 40% highway. Now it has dropped about 1-2 MPG. On the highway, cruising at 70mph, it averages @30MPG with is great.

I really like the supercharger and think it was worth the $6500 I spent. The whistle is noticeable when driving normally. Even at a light people will know you have something under the hood. Of course when you stomp the gas it's loud, you hear the whistle even louder and the sucking noise from the K&N filter that is down low by the fog light.

I haven't had any problems with it, it's only been about 4000 miles. I like the fact that it has a seperate oil resevoir and air to air cooler. The piping does sit low to the ground and you have to be careful with speedbumps, parking stops, etc.

I would recommend it and I do not have any regrets. The only regret I have is buying control arms from Auto Talent (lasted 2000 miles) but that is another story.

[jt330ci]

To answer the orginal question. Last April I had a AA supercharger installed on my 2001 330i by Azevado Motorworks in Linden NJ. I actually went to AA in Miami and met with Omar (I'm from NJ). I toured their shop and he and the staff were helpful.

Azevado took 1 week to install the supercharger (including sending the cpu to Miami). My car had 41,000 miles at the time, now it has 45,000.

My first impression was that it sounded like a mini jet, there is a constant whistle. When I got on it, it took off! I had to adjust my shift points because I was able to tach out much faster. You do not feel the true power of it until @ 4500 RPM. From 4500 RPM on it really pulls. The car is FAST!

The installation they did was great, my local mechanic commented on how neat the install was.

My car averaged 24 MPG with a mix of 60% city and 40% highway. Now it has dropped about 1-2 MPG. On the highway, cruising at 70mph, it averages @30MPG with is great.

I really like the supercharger and think it was worth the $6500 I spent. The whistle is noticeable when driving normally. Even at a light people will know you have something under the hood. Of course when you stomp the gas it's loud, you hear the whistle even louder and the sucking noise from the K&N filter that is down low by the fog light.

I haven't had any problems with it, it's only been about 4000 miles. I like the fact that it has a seperate oil resevoir and air to air cooler. The piping does sit low to the ground and you have to be careful with speedbumps, parking stops, etc.

I would recommend it and I do not have any regrets. The only regret I have is buying control arms from Auto Talent (lasted 2000 miles) but that is another story.

unfortunatly azevedo destroyed my brothers car and cost us 4 thousand more on the install

[Asbjorn@ESS]

ESS's first kits were big vortechs which werent designed properly for the 3 series kits (vouched by you), i guess they should have done some more testing...


What is wrong with you Taz? The VT kit was the worlds first E46 kit, it was introduced back in 2000 and we almost had the entire E46 market alone for almost 3 years with the VT system since nobody else seemed to be able to design proper FI software for MS42/43. It was a durable and very good system, and even today second hand VT kits sell for good money since they have a very good reputation. They make the power they were designed for. However the newer ESS TX series uses a more efficient SC unit and IC system that provides even more power and torque compared to our older VT design and now our TS series replaces our 3 year old TX line with even better performance, torque and driveability. Does this mean the VT and TX were not designed properly? Hell no, it was and is some of the best kits ever designed for the M52TU/M54 engines. But the newer kits uses more advanced technology and works even better, plain and simple. Its called progress Taz, not inadequate engineering in the first place. That would be the same as saying the E46 M3 "werent designed properly" to quote you when the E92 M3 comes out with even better performance and handling:lmao:

[russ330]

I have just banned two members and deleted various posts, I'm not kidding here folks.