turbo

[Mpower316]

my friend and i just recently installed a 50hp nitrous dry shot on my 2005 325ci.....nice clean install and everything works great! it really kicks hard...but im lookin for FI and yes the AA S/C sounds really good but i'd like to go trubo if possible. I've never heard of a turbo for my car except for some rare cases where people have had custom turbochargers built.

if you guys have any info as to how i could drop a turbo in my car (let alone find one) i would greatly appreciate it

[David A]

You should have no problem running a turbo...just tune it.

[Lay2Low]

I am looking to sell mine. It is a custom kit, one of the only ones still running right now I believe. I run 5psi for daily driving, and have gone up to 7-8 psi. Runs great, tuned with ASAtronic to be rich, can be dialed in better with a good software tune.

I am selling my car, and am thinking about parting out since there has been not a ton of interest with the turbo. Let me know

J

[Mpower316]

how much would the turbo cost? is it safe to run a turbo on an automatic transmission?

[Lay2Low]

I am running the turbo on an auto right now, trans is holding up very well. Here is a link to my for sale page:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=398762

[Mpower316]

awesome! mines an auto too and i was concerned abt the tranny holdin up. Im actually very interested in this now.
how many miles are on it?
is there going to be alot of tuning involved?
could you hold on to it for another month or so? thats when im planning on gettin it

[TeD-E*]

do u have a video of u sprayin the nos by any chance?? :pimpin:

[photogenic]

I am running the turbo on an auto right now, trans is holding up very well. Here is a link to my for sale page:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=398762

damn dude you have been selling that forever.

[Mpower316]

not yet ...i have a few on my cell phone but nothing special. I've only had the nitrous for only 2 weeks and it really works great. I was able to smoke a 350Z which out powers my car by alot.
but yea im actually interested in that turbo. It would be great if you can fill me in on that info i asked for

[Lay2Low]

If you are willing to do a deposit, I can get the turbo off the car for you. My car has been up for sale for like 5 months, and I have had 3 buyers back out. I am not sure how the turbo will respond with nos, but luckily active is right next door!

[BreakMyWallet]

the nitrous works good?

any problems yet.. my friend said it just kills our cars. but i want it. haha

[Mpower316]

Nitrous is great if you do it right. My car can safely run a 50 dry shot...I'm actually going to put it on the dyno today and check the AFRs. If it's not running too lean then i might try a 75 shot. As for the turbo, I'm 18 and I'm looking to get it around graduation which is at the end of may. How much of a deposit? I live in Orlando which is 3 hrs from Active's place in Miami so i might take it to them

[ritos530i]

Hey Mpower316, If you are spraying your car with a dry shot of nitrous i would cease to do this now. A 50 shot has worked well with some application but i would not do anything more better alone this a 50 shot. As you can see i have an all nitrous car for now and i did all the work myself. Nitrous is nothing to take lightly and if you can convert your dry shot to a wet shot i would feel much better. I believe you can get a nozzle with fuel and nitrous ports and tap into your fuel rail for the extra fuel.

As to the turbo and nitrous. They are a perfect combo!

[Mpower316]

the only reason we decided on a dry shot was because the car is leased but im going to buy out the lease so im going to make the conversion to a wet kit soon. Do you know of anyone who has used that NX nitrous intercooler spray on our cars yet?

[ritos530i]

the only reason we decided on a dry shot was because the car is leased but im going to buy out the lease so im going to make the conversion to a wet kit soon. Do you know of anyone who has used that NX nitrous intercooler spray on our cars yet?

Thats cool just don't jet it for 75 shot with a dry system.

And as to using the NX system, I don't have any problems with people who use them but I personally would not touch the kit with my exwifes car. I know i haven't went much into my system here in this thread but you can not put the two system in the same category. After gaining the knowledge i have about nitrous there is no way i would want a NX, NOS, or Zex system. Well maybe a Zex kit but hardly not.

I just don't want you to spray that dry system in your car because i know for a fact dry kits have distroyed more cars than any other systems.

Have fun and be safe.

[Mpower316]

whats wrong with NX and ZEX?

[disturbed]

Thats cool just don't jet it for 75 shot with a dry system.

And as to using the NX system, I don't have any problems with people who use them but I personally would not touch the kit with my exwifes car. I know i haven't went much into my system here in this thread but you can not put the two system in the same category. After gaining the knowledge i have about nitrous there is no way i would want a NX, NOS, or Zex system. Well maybe a Zex kit but hardly not.

I just don't want you to spray that dry system in your car because i know for a fact dry kits have distroyed more cars than any other systems.

Have fun and be safe.

Hey Mpower316, If you are spraying your car with a dry shot of nitrous i would cease to do this now. A 50 shot has worked well with some application but i would not do anything more better alone this a 50 shot. As you can see i have an all nitrous car for now and i did all the work myself. Nitrous is nothing to take lightly and if you can convert your dry shot to a wet shot i would feel much better. I believe you can get a nozzle with fuel and nitrous ports and tap into your fuel rail for the extra fuel.

As to the turbo and nitrous. They are a perfect combo!


nitrous can hurt the motor but only if its to big of a shot 50 is fine and so is a 75. A dry kit is the safer of the 2 systems but harder to tune. A wet kit is the easiet to tune but is the more dangerous because it can cause nitrous backfire(if u let off to earlie the gas will puddle up in the intake tract and will blow taking the intake manifold, mass airflow sensor, and intake filter with it.

NX and ZEX is one of the safest system out there!!!! They dont have a ready to install kits for these cars so u have to buy a universal kit and set it up yourself. just because the person couldnt install it right dosnt make it a bad kit. where did u get your info from? and yes turbo and nitrous are the perect combo but not for a stock internal 325ci! thats just asking to blow the motor. use the NX intercooler sprayer. all it will do is spray nitrous on the air to air intercooler and make the air colder by 75 degrees give or take a couple. alowing to make 20-30 extra horsepower due to the colder air entering the engine. some no2 may enter the motor but if so its not enough to make a difference. and yes there is a nozzle with fuel and nitrous ports.

stick with a dry kit.

[Mpower316]

how much of a deposit do you want on the turbo? and it can fit an 05 325ci right? I'm strongly considering buying that turbo but it wouldnt be until the end of this month.

[disturbed]

whats wrong with NX and ZEX?
i would like to know also.

[ritos530i]

nitrous can hurt the motor but only if its to big of a shot 50 is fine and so is a 75. A dry kit is the safer of the 2 systems but harder to tune. A wet kit is the easiet to tune but is the more dangerous because it can cause nitrous backfire(if u let off to earlie the gas will puddle up in the intake tract and will blow taking the intake manifold, mass airflow sensor, and intake filter with it.

NX and ZEX is one of the safest system out there!!!! They dont have a ready to install kits for these cars so u have to buy a universal kit and set it up yourself. just because the person couldnt install it right dosnt make it a bad kit. where did u get your info from? and yes turbo and nitrous are the perect combo but not for a stock internal 325ci! thats just asking to blow the motor. use the NX intercooler sprayer. all it will do is spray nitrous on the air to air intercooler and make the air colder by 75 degrees give or take a couple. alowing to make 20-30 extra horsepower due to the colder air entering the engine. some no2 may enter the motor but if so its not enough to make a difference. and yes there is a nozzle with fuel and nitrous ports.

stick with a dry kit.

Below you see this is a direct quote from a Nitrous Manufactor. Don't get me wrong but many have tuned dry system and work fine but its much more riskier.

Besides i have called all these company's like Zex and NX and NOS and they all say the same thing. Wet is better than Dry.
Too many variables to deal with when using a dry system and it gets worse as you go up in power.

Here's a simple example of the problem for you.

An engine is mapped to use a different amount of fuel at different rpm and uses more fuel at peak torque than at any other time.

The way current dry kits work is by increasing the fuel pressure to the injectors.

Nitrous is fed to the engine at a FIXED rate and therefore needs a FIXED amount of fuel to go with it.

By increasing the fuel pressure the extra fuel delivered to the engine will match the engines changing fuel delivery NOT the FIXED nitrous delivery.

This results in one of the following;
1) at low rpm (below peak torque) you will get less fuel than is required (at a time when it's most needed) and possibly the right amount at peak torque and then too little fuel than needed above peak torque.

2) at low rpm (below peak torque) you will get too much or the right amount of fuel and too little fuel at peak torque and then the right amount or too much above peak torque when bottle pressure is falling (so less nitrous delivered) and at a time when less fuel would be better to produce maximum power.

Now the above examples ASSUME that the fuel enrichment device is RELIABLE AND ACCURATE but as I mentioned previously, I tested a few of the NOS devices and they were FAR FROM BEING RELIABLE OR ACCURATE!!!!

The main point of these examples is to show that it's a VERY UNPREDICTABLE fuel delivery and as most people know, getting the nitrous mixture wrong will result in engine failure. With current 'main stream' dry systems the mixture can AT BEST, ONLY be right part of the time and is likely to be wrong for a lonGer period that it's right.

Regards

[ritos530i]

Oh i forgot to mention that i did all the work in my setup below and since i went thru hell figuring all this and brain storming other experts. It makes me a reliable source of knowledge when it comes to doing these installs.

[disturbed]

well that vary interesting and all but since i have done 3 install's on 2 wet and 1 dry. and have a wet on my trans am and know alot about cars since i was a tech for ford when i was in 11th grade. i would say i know what im talking about my t/a puts 600hp and 610 ftlbs to the wheel. and i would never use a NOS imo thats the worst brand. i have installed a coldfusion kit i have a TNT kit which is one of the best in my car. and a NX kit in a 5.0 mustang. every system i have installed has a msd window switch that lets the system start to spray at 3500 rpms and shut off at 6000rpms with a WOT switch for the other cars since they have autos on mine i have those plus a FPSS and some more goodies. o and i use a 150 shot wet and set up my friends mustang on a 125 dry and hes had it for more than a year now. so yes u are right but as long as it is done correctly it will be safe i know lots of people running dry kits including a race team that uses a two stage 175&300 shot dry. if dry isnt safe then y would a race team use it and y 2.

[disturbed]

Wet vs. Dry
These questions will come up alot, so I'll try to address them now. The main difference between the 2 is the Wet kit injects fuel AND nitrous into the intake tract, whereas the Dry kit will only inject nitrous. They both have their advantages and drawbacks. If you're new to nitrous, Dry is probably for you. Its very simple to install, mostly plug and play and gives the most hit. Wet kits are generally a smoother hit comparatively and require more installation. Dry kits do not inject more fuel into the intake directly, but if nothing else was done, your engine would lean WAY out, and thats never good. What the dry kit does is fool the fuel pressure regulator into thinking its not adding enough fuel. It opens it up and adds more fuel that way. The problem with this is its very easy to lean out. If the vaccuum line pops off or something goes wrong with the FPR, you can lose fuel and this can damage your engine in no time if the nitrous isnt turned off. Also, you'll probably get people telling you that you cant run big shots on dry. This is not true. USA Motorsports used to competitively race using a 2 stage dry kit 175-300.
Wet on the other hand is the most tuneable of the 2 (not including foggers or direct port). It adds additional fuel through a seperate solenoid and atomizes it with the nitrous in the intake tract. This is safer in the sense that you dont rely on the FPR to add more fuel, but the downside is if you shut down too early and do not stop spraying early enough, the fuel/nitrous mixture can puddle up inside the intake and cause a nitrous backfire. If you have never seen one, I hope you never do. They are not pretty.

[disturbed]

Here are some Q's and A's for you. Enjoy!

Q: Will Nitrous affect engine reliability?
A: The key is choosing the correct H.P. for a given application. A kit that uses the correct factory calibration does not usually cause increased wear. As the energy released in the cylinder increases so do the loads on the various components that must handle them. If the load increases exceed the ability of the components to handle them, added wear takes place. Nitrous kits are designed for use on demand and only at wide open throttle. Nitrous can be extremely advantageous in that it is only used when you want it, not all the time. Most Nitrous kits are designed for maximum power with reliability for a given application.

Q: Can I simply bolt a nitrous kit onto my stock engine?
A: Yes. Most manufactures systems for virtually any stock engine application. The key is to choose the correct kit for a given application; i.e., 4 cyl. engines normally allow an extra 40-60 HP, 6 cyl. engines usually work great between 75-100 extra HP, small block V8's (302/350/400cid) can typically accept up to 140 extra HP, and big block V8's (427-454) might accept from 125-200 extra HP. These suggested ranges provide maximum reliability from most stock engines using cast pistons and cast crank with few or no engine modifications.

Q: What are some of the general rules for even higher HP gains?
A: Generally, forged aluminum pistons are one of best modifications you can make. Retard ignition timing by 4-8 degrees (1 to 1-1/2 degrees timing retard per 50 HP gain). In many cases a higher flowing fuel pump may be necessary. Higher octane (100+) racing type fuel may be required as well as spark plugs 1 to 2 heat ranges colder than normal with gaps closed to .025"-.030". For gains over 250 HP, other important modifications could be necessary in addition to those mentioned above. These special modifications may include a forged crankshaft, a high quality race type connecting rods, a high output fuel pump dedicated to feeding the additional fuel demands of the nitrous system, and a racing fuel with high specific gravity and an octane rating of 110 or more.

Q: How does nitrous work?
A: Nitrous oxide is made up of 2 parts nitrogen and one part oxygen (36% oxygen by weight). During the combustion process in an engine, at about 572 degrees F, nitrous breaks down and releases oxygen. This extra oxygen creates additional power by allowing more fuel to be burned. Nitrogen acts to buffer, or dampen the increased cylinder pressures helping to control the combustion process. Nitrous also has a tremendous "intercooling" effect by reducing intake charge temperatures by 60 to 75 degrees F.

Q: How much performance improvement can I expect with a nitrous system?
A: For many applications an improvement from .5 to 3 full seconds and 5 to 15 MPH in the quarter mile can be expected. Factors such as engine size, tires, jetting, gearing, etc. will affect the final results.

Q: How long will the bottle last?
A: This largely depends on the type of nitrous kit and jetting used. For example, a 125 HP Power Shot kit with a standard 10 lb. capacity bottle will usually offer up to 7 to 10 full quarter-mile passes. For power levels of 250 HP, 3 to 5 full quarter-mile passes may be expected. If nitrous is only used in 2nd and 3rd gears, the number of runs will be more.

Q: How long can I hold the nitrous button down?
A: It is possible to hold the button down until the bottle is empty. However 15 continuous seconds at a time, or less, is recommended.

Q: When is the best time to use nitrous?
A: At wide open throttle only (unless a progressive controller is used). Due to the tremendous amount of increased torque, you will generally find best results, traction permitting, at early activation. Nitrous can be safely applied above 3,000 RPM under full throttle conditions.

Q: Is nitrous oxide flammable?
A: No. Nitrous Oxide by itself is non-flammable. However, the oxygen present in nitrous oxide causes combustion of fuel to take place more rapidly.

Q: Will nitrous oxide cause detonation?
A: Not directly. Detonation is the result of too little fuel present during combustion (lean) or too low of an octane of fuel. Too much ignition advance also causes detonation. In general, most kits engineered for stock type engines will work well with premium type fuels and minimal decreases of ignition timing. In racing application where higher compression ratios are used, resulting in higher cylinder pressures, a higher fuel octane must be used as well as more ignition retard.

Q: Is there any performance increase in using medical grade nitrous oxide?
A: None! Most sell only the automotive grade, called Ny-trous Plus. Ny-trous Plus contains a minimal amount of sulfur dioxide (100 ppm) as a deterrent to substance abuse. The additive does not affect performance.

Q: Is it a good idea to use an aftermarket computer program in conjunction with an ntrous System?
A: Only if the program has been designed specifically for use with nitrous oxide. Most aftermarket programs use more aggressive timing advance curves to create more power. This can lead to possible detonation. You may wish to check with the manufacturer of the program before using it.

Q: Does nitrous oxide raise cylinder pressure and temperatures?
A: Yes. Due to the ability to burn more fuel, this is exactly why nitrous makes so much power.

Q: Are there any benefits to chilling the nitrous bottle?
A: No. Chilling the bottle lowers the pressure dramatically and will also lower the flow rate of the nitrous causing a fuel rich condition and reducing power. On cold evenings you might run on the rich side. For optimal running conditions, keep bottle pressure at approximately 900-1050 psi.

Q: Are there benefits to using nitrous with turbo or super-charger applications?
A: Absolutely! In turbo applications, turbo lag is completely eliminated with the addition of a nitrous system. In addition, both turbo and superchargers compress the incoming air, thus heating it. With the injection of nitrous, a tremendous intercooling effect reduces intake charge temperatures by 75 degrees or more. Boost is usually increased as well, adding to even more power.

Q: What affect does nitrous have on an engine with considerable miles on it?
A: This depends largely on the actual condition of the engine components. Any performance modification to an engine that is worn out or poorly tuned will have detrimental effects. However, an engine in good condition, with good ring and head gasket sealing, should be able to use nitrous without any abnormal wear.

Q: Will the use of nitrous oxide affect the catalytic converter?
A: No. The increase in oxygen present in the exhaust may actually increase the efficiency of the converter. Since the use of nitrous is normally limited to 10-20 seconds of continuous use, there usually are no appreciable effects. Temperatures are typically well within acceptable standards.

Q: Can high compression engines utilize nitrous oxide?
A: Absolutely. High or low compression ratios can work quite suitably with nitrous oxide provided the proper balance of nitrous and fuel enrichment is maintained. Nitrous kits are used in applications from relatively low compression stock type motors to Pro-Modifieds, which often exceed 15 to 1. Generally, the higher the compression ratio, the more ignition retard, as well as higher octane fuel, is required.

Q: Can service station fuel be used for street/strip nitrous oxide applications?
A: Yes. Use of a premium type leaded or unleaded fuel of 92, or greater, octane is recommended for most applications. Many nitrous systems are designed for use with service station pump gas. However, when higher compression or higher horsepower levels are used, a racing fuel of 100 octane, or more, must be used.

Q: What type of cam is best suited for use with nitrous oxide?
A: Generally, cams that have less exhaust overlap and more exhaust duration. However, it is best to choose a cam tailored to normal use (when nitrous is not activated) since 99% of most vehicle operations is not at full throttle. There are special cam grinds available for nitrous competition which have more aggressive exhaust profile ramping, etc. Since cam selection depends largely on vehicle weight, gearing, etc., it is best to stick to cam manufacturers' recommendations for your particular goal.

Q: Should I modify my fuel system to use nitrous oxide?
A: Most stock fuel pumps will work adequately for smaller nitrous applications. It is important to check to see if your pump can flow enough fuel to your existing fuel system (whether carburetor or fuel injected), as well as being able to supply the additional fuel required by the nitrous kit under full throttle conditions. It may be a good idea to dedicate a separate fuel pump to the nitrous kit.

[disturbed]

Frequently Asked Questions 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which is the best position to mount a nitrous bottle?
A: Nitrous bottles come with siphon tubes and, in order to maintain proper nitrous pickup, it is important to mount the bottle correctly. We recommend mounting the bottle at a 15 degree angle with the valve end higher than the bottom of the bottle. The valve end of the bottle should point to the front of the vehicle and the valve knob and label should face straight up.

Q: How important is it to use nitrous and fuel filters in a kit?
A: Some of the most important components of any nitrous system are nitrous and fuel filters. To keep contaminants from attacking the solenoid or plugging up a jet, nitrous filters feature a special stainless steel mesh element from the aerospace industry.

Q: What are the advantages of using nitrous compared to other performance options?
A: The cost of many other performance options can put you in the poorhouse. Dollar for dollar, you can't buy more performance with less money than nitrous. With a nitrous system, performance and reliability can be had for a much more reasonable price while still retaining the advantage of a stock engine during normal driving. And, Nitrous offers tremendous gains in torque without having to rev the engine to excessive rpm's.

Q: How do I know how much nitrous is left in the bottle?
A: The most reliable method was is to weigh the bottle to determine how many pounds remain. When a bottle is near empty (about 20% or less nitrous remaining) a surging effect is normally felt.

Q: What is the function of the blow-off safety valve on the bottle?
A: It is very important not to overfill a bottle; i.e., a 10 lb. capacity bottle should not be filled with more than 10 lbs. of nitrous oxide by weight. Over-filling and/or too much heat can cause excessive bottle pressures forcing the safety seal to blow and releasing all the contents out of the bottle.

Q: Will I have to change my ignition system?
A: Most late model ignition systems are well suited for nitrous applications. NGK TR-6 plugs are recommended.

CAN YOU RUN NITROUS WITH A 6 SPEED CAR?

Yes. Just make sure that you have the correct safety equipment before you do so.

WOT Switch
Window Switch
FPSS


WOT - Wide Open Throttle Switch. It is placed inline with your arming switch, FPSS, and any other safety devices to activate your nitrous. This can be placed either near the throttle body or a momentary push button underneath the gas pedal for a stealth install.

Window Switch - Another wonderful (shouldn't be without) safety device. A must for a M6. It also installs inline with your FPSS, WOT, arming swithch, etc. The window switch does excatly what it says, it is a window for your nitrous to activate. Example. If you have you window switch setup for 3k and 6k, then the nitrous will only activate between those RPM's. It will come on at 3k and automatically shut off at 6k. (Providing it is wired correctly.) Some use pills while others just use dials or dip switches to set the corresponding RPM.

[disturbed]

if its not already done some one sticky that!

and sorry for thread jacking so please answer his question on how much of a deposit he needs to give you

[ritos530i]

This is great information!
Anyway i sent you a pm because i did not want to confuse anyone reading this.

Regards,
Rito

[Mpower316]

ok i get the point lol
i posted this thread b/c i wanted to buy a turbo not hear an argument over nitrous....both of you make good points but as for now im going to stick with my 50 dry shot. I dont really plan on going up on the shot so it should be fine

[russ330]

I'm glad we're talking about other peoples engines and not mine. :eek:

[ritos530i]

ok i get the point lol
i posted this thread b/c i wanted to buy a turbo not hear an argument over nitrous....both of you make good points but as for now im going to stick with my 50 dry shot. I dont really plan on going up on the shot so it should be fine

Sorry about that, did not mean to thread jack you.
I was just trying to be helpful because i am sure everything tells me that a 75 shot of dry kit is dangereous on our cars.

Good luck and i am sure you will do what you feel is best for your car.

Again sorry about that.

[Mpower316]

no problem....im taking everyone's advice into consideration. As of right now, I'm going to stay with the 50 shot. I want to get my hands on some sort of F/I (this guy's turbo sounds pretty good to me), I have a full exhaust on the way and then i have some suspension work to do