TwinScrew or Centrifugal ????

[nerburgring]

Hi guys, i wonder if anyone can help me? :banghead: I'm torn between which Super Charger would be better for my 2.2 M54 engine. I was set on a Centifugal with Intercooler, but now i've heard good reports about the Twin Screw (cheers Max), so now i'm really confused! :hmm:
Can anyone help me? Roy?, anyone? I'm desperate! Cheers. Pete.

[BMWPower06]

id go with TS, ive heard nothing but good about the TS as well

[Maestroxl]

Go and ask Marvelphx, he had both.
I got a TS2 from ESS tuning and loving it.
Instant power from low rpm to high rpm.
It keeps on pulling all the way to redline.
And the sound is awesome :drool:
Centris are cheaper though.

My 0.02 cents.

MXL

[zeshon]

TSs are more efficient, with much higher design tolerances. You will see a bit more horsepower out of it, but it really depends on what the S/C is for. Are you tracking it or just driving around town? If you don't reallllly need the power of a TS or your budget is a concern, get the Centri, but if you have pleanty of cash for it then go for the TS.

[MarvelPhx]

I use the power of the TS a lot more often than I ever did the CF.

[malina]

TS>Centrifugal, but twice as much in price.

[Tyler@UniqueDesign]

Everyone is exactly right.

The TS is where its at right now for performance, but its certainly not the cheapest route.

[AZx330iZHP]

I have a Centrifugal and have driven MarvelPHX's TS.. I like the Centrifugal as I love to feel it build boost like a turbo... Both are nice but way different...

[EIAlfonso]

TS>Centrifugal, but twice as much in price.

VF Stage 1 for 330 = $5,000
AA C38 Stage 1 = $4,400



ESS TS Stage 1 = $5,995

No where near twice as much.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Could the argument be made that an experienced mechanic would charge less for the installation of a twin screw? I keep hearing about how its much easier to install given the positioning of the components.

If that is the case... and a TS costs less "labor hours" to install... arguments could be made that the pricing is even more similar.

Personally... right now I'm heavily considering putting a TS1 in my car. Its a lot of money but I think I can pull it off. And I would just upgrade my clutch when mine starts slipping.

[Boosted_ZHP]

Could the argument be made that an experienced mechanic would charge less for the installation of a twin screw? I keep hearing about how its much easier to install given the positioning of the components.

If that is the case... and a TS costs less "labor hours" to install... arguments could be made that the pricing is even more similar.

Personally... right now I'm heavily considering putting a TS1 in my car. Its a lot of money but I think I can pull it off. And I would just upgrade my clutch when mine starts slipping.

I am not sure, but am pretty confident that installing an AA C-38 is less than installing a TS system.

To the OP, it all depends on what you want out of your car. But for most situations the TS system would be better.

[clean-m-tech330]

........not this thread again........ :banghead::banghead:

[Lemonsqr]

I am not sure, but am pretty confident that installing an AA C-38 is less than installing a TS system.

To the OP, it all depends on what you want out of your car. But for most situations the TS system would be better.

I would tend to agree. With the TS, you are requried to remove the intake mani and relocate the TB, so install for the TS might be a bit more involved. The only disadvantage of the TS I can think of is that the TS1 unit weighs about 50lbs. I dont know how much a centri kit weighs, but it looks a lot less. Thus you are adding weight and throwing off the weight distribution (unfavorably) if you are going with the TS. I dont know if the performance of the TS would compensate for the weight of the system versus a centri. for straightline runs though. I think it would be very interesting to put these systems in a head to head competition on the track (cornering and drag racing), not just looking at dyno curves which only shows you what the engine power looks like, but not how the engine enhances the performance of the car, which is REALLY what matters!! I think people get too involved with comparing dyno charts that they forget it is the engine + the car that makes performance, not just the engine.

[Asbjorn@ESS]

TS1 : ~50lbs
- OEM Intake manifold : ~15lbs
= Total weight gain of ~35lbs

For comparison our old non intercooled Vortech based VT1 kit for the same engine weigh ~35lbs and retained the OEM manifold. The total weight added is the same between the TS1 and VT1, except the TS adds its weight further back in the car.

The TS saves a bit of installation hazzle since it does not require any oil plumbing like CF kits do, which offsets the extra time spent removing the oem manifold to fit the TS.

[malina]

VF Stage 1 for 330 = $5,000
AA C38 Stage 1 = $4,400



ESS TS Stage 1 = $5,995

No where near twice as much.

ESS TS1 is non-intercooled with 6.5PSI of boost = $5,995
ESS TS2 = $7,995
I was referring to ESS TS2 when said it's a double price of a centri kit.

I still have lots of fun playing with my C30-94 :rofl:

[Bimmer33084]

so whats the best kit for a daily driver? i'm looking into this to. i don't track my car.

[Lemonsqr]

so whats the best kit for a daily driver? i'm looking into this to. i don't track my car.

I would say TS because of the lowend torque. You wont have to keep the engine revved up so high to stay in the powerband.

[Maestroxl]

I would say TS because of the lowend torque. You wont have to keep the engine revved up so high to stay in the powerband.

I agree

[MarvelPhx]

VF Stage 1 for 330 = $5,000
AA C38 Stage 1 = $4,400



ESS TS Stage 1 = $5,995

No where near twice as much.

And Asbjorn said the coming ESS TSL (entry level TS) prices will make it a no-brainer for those on a tight budget and want some boost. :4ngie:

[zeshon]

I know the ASA centri kit uses a clutch so it isn't on boost at low RPM. Is the AA C38 kit the same way?

[MarvelPhx]

Rotrex is not clutched as far as I know.

[zeshon]

If that's the case, then isn't the power going to be more linear than the ASA centri kit? I know it isn't going to be the same as the TS, but it should be better. I'm gonna go have a look at the dynos and see whats up.

[TxZHP04]

If that's the case, then isn't the power going to be more linear than the ASA centri kit? I know it isn't going to be the same as the TS, but it should be better. I'm gonna go have a look at the dynos and see whats up.

I will be surprised if you can tell any difference in the dynos attributable to the clutch. I think the clutch on the ASA engages around 1000 rpm or so. Since the compressor is belt driven and not gas driven like a turbo, there is essentially no spool up time. Plus, most dynos don't show anything below 2k - 3k rpms anyway.

[thekubiaks]

I've had the ESS VT-1 and currently have the TX2 centrifugal supercharger. 8 PSI of boost is 8 PSI of boost no matter if it is coming from a Rotrex compresser, a centrifugal compressor, twin screws, or a big hair dryer. The difference is in the boost curve and volume. The twin screws can supply more volume at lower RPM than the TX2. The TX2 is similar to the Vortec compresser but the TX2 seems to supply boost a little sooner.

What I've learned is that if you are supercharging, you really need an intercooler. The more you compress the air going into the cylinders, the more heat. The more heat, the less horsepower. If you live in a very hot climate, you are already losing power to heat. The intercooler on my TX2 works well.

So, if I were to hear that the Twin Screw had an intercooler, put out 10 PSI, and gave me 400 rwhp, I'd say buy it if it were about the same price as the TX2. But, my TX2 makes about 8 PSI, is intercooled, and cost a lot less than the TS2.

I finally realized that 300 HP in a my 330i is OK but not worth the expense. Most performance cars these days have more than 300HP. My wifes Honda Odyssey has 285HP (compared to the anemic 225HP my 330i originally came with :wow: ). For the ~$10K a twin screw would cost (after installation), I bought a crotch rocket (07' GSXR-1000) that will give me all the adrenaline I need.... If I want a fast car, I'll put twin turbos in a C5 Vette.

I will say that ESS has been a great company to buy from. Their support has been outstanding and I've had their superhcargers on my car for 4 1/2 years without a single mechanical problem. :thumbsup:

[zeshon]

^^^ Good info. Thanks

[bigjae1976]

I think either way...you'll be happy. But in my uneducated opinion...I'd get the TS2 if you can afford it...if not, go for the CF kits.

[malina]

^so true.

[Transporter99]

So it sounds like whatever system you get, purchase an intercooler system or you won't reap the true benefits anyway from a CF or TS system. Am I correct in thinking this?

[thekubiaks]

So it sounds like whatever system you get, purchase an intercooler system or you won't reap the true benefits anyway from a CF or TS system. Am I correct in thinking this?

An intercooler cools the compressed air going into the engine for more power. The cooler the charge the more power. I don't know the exact numbers but if compressing the air to 8 PSI raises the air temperature 150 F + 100 F outside air temperature, the resulting 250F air going into the engine carries less oxygen for combustion than say 160F intercooled air. Those numbers are probably off but the concept is the same. If your supercharger is giving you (under optimal conditions) another 60 rwhp but you are losing 30 - 40 rwhp due to heat, it seems that an intercooler will help restore some of that lost HP. If you ever do multiple dyno runs back to back, the later runs usually put down less rwhp due to heat soak (that is what I observed during 6 different dyno runs (about 3 - 4 pulls per sessions))

Do a search on heat soak. Look at this web page (I don't endorse this product, I really didn't even look at what they're selling)

http://www.koperformance.com/BMW/turbo_superchargers/ko_performance/ko_performance_e36_m3_stage_2_boost_kit.htm

Look about half way down where it starts: 1. Heat is the enemy

It is a pretty good answer to your question...:str8pimpi

[nerburgring]

Cheers guys! :excited::excited: TWIN SCREW TS2 :excited::excited:it is then, can't wait.

:bow:Thankyou for all your help and comments!

Nice one, Pete.

[330i ZHP]

is the ts avail for the motors other than the 330

[Asbjorn@ESS]

is the ts avail for the motors other than the 330

Yes, 320 2.0, 320 2.2 and 323 is also available. 325 and 328 is ready for release shortly.

[bigjae1976]

A twinscrewed 325 touring might be my next car.