which S/C VFE or AA

[deltasleep]

I love the front mount ic that AA has but I am concerned about the stalling out issues. Has this been taken care of? Any one run with the 3rd gen s/c. I have cash in hand now!!! Any input would be great. I love the tuning of the VFE...aggghhhh I can deside.

[///JTM3]

What stalling issues are you talking about.... are you talking about VFE's Limp Mode:hmm:

[deltasleep]

had not heard about that. I love the AA intercooler, I am concern about the stalling out issues people have had. How is yours running?? I am looking at the stage 1 3rd gen kit from active.

[Miami///M3]

I had the Gen3 Stg1 AA kit and I absolutely love it and I had no problems with it at all... AA is currently installing the Gen3 Stg2 on my car and I cant wait to get it back, cuz let me tell you for having nearly the power doubled the car drives exactly like stock through all the gears, but when you put your foot down its a different type of animal not to mention the powerband stays the same and your keep the stock rev limit of 8K, unlike the VF kit which is raised with their stage 1 and not to mention you can opt for a raised limit in their stage 2, but that is not even back to your stock rev limit.. Also VF has had problems tuning SMG cars, or should I say GIAC which they outsource for tuning, unlike AA that does all their tuning in housing which is a big plus I think, Also my car is SMG and no problems at all with shifting in S and A modes; sweeter then ever.. I def. recommend the AA kit and as for stalling never has happend to me and I never heard of it happening to any of my buddies who have the kit or anyone else for that matter...

[///JTM3]

No problems here.... Perfect driving... I got Gen 3 Stg 1....

[OCswedishM3]

Every issue has been fixed with the Gen 3. No stalling issues, no delayed shifts, and the 8 rib pulley tops it off. And the great thing is that AA can do a custom tune for you if you would like. But if you go with the W/A injection, i recommend buying a pump that can handle methanol and have that installed because water/meth> alcohol/water

[DLSJ5]

I had the Gen3 Stg1 AA kit and I absolutely love it and I had no problems with it at all... AA is currently installing the Gen3 Stg2 on my car and I cant wait to get it back, cuz let me tell you for having nearly the power doubled the car drives exactly like stock through all the gears, but when you put your foot down its a different type of animal not to mention the powerband stays the same and your keep the stock rev limit of 8K, unlike the VF kit which is raised with their stage 1 and not to mention you can opt for a raised limit in their stage 2, but that is not even back to your stock rev limit.. Also VF has had problems tuning SMG cars, or should I say GIAC which they outsource for tuning, unlike AA that does all their tuning in housing which is a big plus I think, Also my car is SMG and no problems at all with shifting in S and A modes; sweeter then ever.. I def. recommend the AA kit and as for stalling never has happend to me and I never heard of it happening to any of my buddies who have the kit or anyone else for that matter...


Let me correct you, VF's redline is 7950 Stage 1 and 2. VF has no problems tuning SMG cars, ask me how I know. :hi: NO hesitation between shifts, stock like drivability, etc.


Deltasleep:

Don't let the abundance of compliments, or "No problems" here on either kit fool you, lol, BOTH have had some issues here and there. My friends drive M3's with both kits, they have not been problem free, that's the truth. Regardless all of us love our cars and the kits.

Both kits are solid, either way is a good choice. :thumbsup:

[Jean@ActiveAutowerke]

I love the front mount ic that AA has but I am concerned about the stalling out issues. Has this been taken care of? Any one run with the 3rd gen s/c. I have cash in hand now!!! Any input would be great. I love the tuning of the VFE...aggghhhh I can deside.

Hello,
Thanks, I love our intercoolers also, :). Our Gen III kit has had a lot of refinement since the first Gen, and has been problem free. We have many happy customers, I see a few have chimed in. We also do our own tuning. Many companies, and race teams choose us to do thier S/W. If you have any specific tuning questions let me know.

[MSpired]

Here some good info I posted on M3forum...

"Between AA and VF, both have their pros and cons.

AA's pros:

1) In house tuning vs. VF's outsourced tuning from GIAC. The advantage of the in house tuning is that at any time, you can send your ECU to AA and have them change your tune any way you'd like/need (maybe a custom race gas file, maybe a methenol file, adding nitrous, etc...) GIAC will not do this for you.

2) You are able to run a solid shot of wet nitrous on the AA kit (been done numerous times by many people) vs. only being able to run a possible 20 dry shot with the VF kit (never been done before).

3) AA's kit comes with an 8 Rib Pulley system vs. VF doesn't have one available.

VF's Pros:

1) Great intake manifold design that is very efficient.

2) The Vortech supercharger in the VF kit has room to go before it's maxed out (I believe it's around 15psi max) vs. AA's Rotrex blower which is maxed out at around 10psi. How many psi the S54 can handle is still yet to be discovered.

Other than that, both companies have great customer service and great hardware that have been proven."

[M3RALPH]

What stalling issues are you talking about.... are you talking about VFE's Limp Mode:hmm:

HAHAHAHA that was awesome thank you lololol :rofl:

[Nik@vf-engineering]

HAHAHAHA that was awesome thank you lololol :rofl:

On the flipside we could present dozens of threads of limp issues of the Rotrex kit on the old e46psi.com forum. But why dwell on the past, or use it to try and ridicule?

Our software update was issued about 4 months after releasing our kit and this raised the rev limiter to stock and eliminated this limp mode immediately.

The VF stg1 kit for the S54 market is one of the only kit that uses the stock MAF and does not delete emissions related codes from the software and still fuel trims to factory spec. Our stg1 kit makes 400rwp on 91 octane and is expected to be the only CARB approved FI kit on the market.

The GIAC software is technically outsourced, (they are 9 miles from our office and we tune our kits together) on both their Mustang AWD and our Dynojet 2WD) but this adds to the positive aspects of our product as it allows us to focus on perfecting our hardware. The same goes for BMW, they do not write their software, they had Siemens do it for them.

GIAC is an industry leader in multiple German aftermarkets and has a very long history (15+ years) of tuning ECUs that surpases most in their industry. One accreditation to their name is that they re-programmed the Porsche 959 to be CARB legal for the US. GIAC disassemble and write their own software algorithms and compilers which only a handful of individuals in the aftermarket in the world do.

[Active Autowerke II]

On the flipside we could present dozens of threads of limp issues of the Rotrex kit on the old e46psi.com forum. But why dwell on the past, or use it to try and ridicule?

Are we going back to another Alpha-N post/thread?


Our software update was issued about 4 months after releasing our kit and this raised the rev limiter to stock and eliminated this limp mode immediately.

The VF stg1 kit for the S54 market is one of the only kit that uses the stock MAF and does not delete emissions related codes from the software and still fuel trims to factory spec. Our stg1 kit makes 400rwp on 91 octane and is expected to be the only CARB approved FI kit on the market.


All minor issues (99% of the time install errors) with our kits have been resolved promptly and professionally with our excellent tech support dept. If there are any issues you know about that we do not please post.

We have tuned countless cars with the stock mass meter, however after years of R&D and providing quality kits to our customers we decided to better engineer an already proven kit and now have our Gen 3 kits.

Which are now on sale.:thumbsup:


The GIAC software is technically outsourced, (they are 9 miles from our office and we tune our kits together) on both their Mustang AWD and our Dynojet 2WD) but this adds to the positive aspects of our product as it allows us to focus on perfecting our hardware. The same goes for BMW, they do not write their software, they had Siemens do it for them.

GIAC is an industry leader in multiple German aftermarkets and has a very long history (15+ years) of tuning ECUs that surpases most in their industry. One accreditation to their name is that they re-programmed the Porsche 959 to be CARB legal for the US. GIAC disassemble and write their own software algorithms and compilers which only a handful of individuals in the aftermarket in the world do.

Thank you for the history lesson on GIAC.


This thread was made by the OP to get customer feedback so he can make an educated decision on which kit is best for him. Please lets keep this thread civil.

To the OP, feel free to contact us in regards to our kit.

[Nik@vf-engineering]

Are we going back to another Alpha-N post/thread?
...
and now have our Gen 3 kits.
...
Thank you for the history lesson on GIAC.
..
Please lets keep this thread civil.


In very typical fashion, you come out with your guns blazing in a defensive and offesive tone. Your defensive stance clearly shows how threatened you feel by our product.

The mature readers will probably note, that my post was very civil with no undertone.

[Active Autowerke II]

In very typical fashion, you come out with your guns blazing in a defensive and offesive tone. Your defensive stance clearly shows how threatened you feel by our product.

The mature readers will probably note, that my post was very civil with no undertone.

Its obvious we are going no where here. Just as before remarks are made and we answer. I apologize if this is an inconvenience for you.

Lets let this thread get back on topic please.

[///JTM3]

I have a ? for VF and for AA.. Im looking in to getting a Pusssy Magnet installed on my E46 M3... Would any of you have it in stock?

Thank you... JT..

[Nik@vf-engineering]

I have a ? for VF and for AA.. Im looking in to getting a Pusssy Magnet installed on my E46 M3... Would any of you have it in stock?

Thank you... JT..

Yes, we have them in stock. We include a free one, with every supercharger kit.

[grzes12n]

Haha

[beanfree]

Yes, we have them in stock. We include a free one, with every supercharger kit.

Nice to see someone with a sense of humour (and I do agree that your post was more civil than the AA post).

[azjimi]

Nice to see someone with a sense of humour (and I do agree that your post was more civil than the AA post).

2nd that for sure. I read the AA post & wondered "WTF?"
"One of the only" does not mean the same as "the only", so that defensiveness was TOTALLY unnecessary & just
made AA look bad when in fact anyone who knows anything knows they are a fine company.

[icemanxlb]

Yea me too I was like why is AA getting all defensive there was no bashing involved in the 1st place........

[MSpired]

Are you guys seriosuly GOSSIPING on the way the vendors acted?

"OMG! Did you hear what Suzy told Ken today?!?!"

Get over it.

[beanfree]

Are you guys seriosuly GOSSIPING on the way the vendors acted?

"OMG! Did you hear what Suzy told Ken today?!?!"

Get over it.

Yes, of course, as you wish Mr. AA.

[helgo]

VF / AA: flip a coin. won't be disappointed either way. I coulda gone with either, mad my choice purely based on which kit i could get faster when i decided to go fi.

[schulmann]

Since I am new into the BMW tuning I will give you my opinion based on my experience on Forced induction Vipers.

1. There is always some type of trouble to fix on forced induction cars.

2. Earlier you recognize an issue less money it will cost you to fix it.

3. Both VFE and AA have the same design. They are centrifugal type. They have the same effectiveness.

4. If I had the money to spend I would install a turbo charger. They are the best and most performance effective.

5. I think from quality point of you AA and VFE are similar.

6. I never have seen a SC to fail because of a design issue. The most critical parts in the design are pulley alignment and the proper frame to hold the SC resisting fatigue.

7. Installation is the first import matter. I have seen couple of forced induction cars to fail because of poor installation: Pulleys poorly torqued, Crank pulley falling off, bolts being sucked in by the supercharger, wrong injectors installed, wrong wiring, wires glued instead of welding, Supercharger sucking out the oil from the engine like a vacuum cleaner (poor PCV system setup) so on ... The person who installs the SC must have the time to double or even triple check every single bolt and wires. It is not a rocket science to install a SC.

8. Finally the most important is the proper AFR and ignition tuning. This is where you need a tuner with Phd on the car that you supercharge. Tuning can take a LOT of time. For a real race car there is no perfect program. You can spend between 20 to 2000 hours tuning a car. Poor tuning can be fatal within a few seconds. If the engine pinks you have to recognize it very quickly. Then you can either buy better fuel or you have to retard ignition. Regarding AFR: Leaner you run more hp you car will make. I even dared to run 13 AFR on SC cars. To do so you need to have a WBO. There is some margin to run lean but a commercial car should always stay below 12AFR.

I just signed up for the AA supercharger kit. Miami is close to Canada. If I need to retune the ECU I can get it done within 3-4 days by Fedex. AA kit is also cheaper. Pricing is very important. I better spend my money on a WBO and prime quality fuel.


That's being said when you select the SC or turbo base your selection on the qualifications/experience of the tuner who will do the final tunig.

[MSpired]

Since I am new into the BMW tuning I will give you my opinion based on my experience on Forced induction Vipers.

1. There is always some type of trouble to fix on forced induction cars.

2. Earlier you recognize an issue less money it will cost you to fix it.

3. Both VFE and AA have the same design. They are centrifugal type. They have the same effectiveness.

4. If I had the money to spend I would install a turbo charger. They are the best and most performance effective.

5. I think from quality point of you AA and VFE are similar.

6. I never have seen a SC to fail because of a design issue. The most critical parts in the design are pulley alignment and the proper frame to hold the SC resisting fatigue.

7. Installation is the first import matter. I have seen couple of forced induction cars to fail because of poor installation: Pulleys poorly torqued, Crank pulley falling off, bolts being sucked in by the supercharger, wrong injectors installed, wrong wiring, wires glued instead of welding, Supercharger sucking out the oil from the engine like a vacuum cleaner (poor PCV system setup) so on ... The person who installs the SC must have the time to double or even triple check every single bolt and wires. It is not a rocket science to install a SC.

8. Finally the most important is the proper AFR and ignition tuning. This is where you need a tuner with Phd on the car that you supercharge. Tuning can take a LOT of time. For a real race car there is no perfect program. You can spend between 20 to 2000 hours tuning a car. Poor tuning can be fatal within a few seconds. If the engine pinks you have to recognize it very quickly. Then you can either buy better fuel or you have to retard ignition. Regarding AFR: Leaner you run more hp you car will make. I even dared to run 13 AFR on SC cars. To do so you need to have a WBO. There is some margin to run lean but a commercial car should always stay below 12AFR.

I just signed up for the AA supercharger kit. Miami is close to Canada. If I need to retune the ECU I can get it done within 3-4 days by Fedex. AA kit is also cheaper. Pricing is very important. I better spend my money on a WBO and prime quality fuel.


That's being said when you select the SC or turbo base your selection on the qualifications/experience of the tuner who will do the final tunig.


Nice post!

What is a WBO?

[Nik@vf-engineering]

3. Both VFE and AA have the same design. They are centrifugal type. They have the same effectiveness.


With respect, here are a few points you may want to consider as these 2 kits are quite different from each other.

VF kit uses the California manufactured Vortech Centrifugal supercharger unit capable of 20 psi and comes with a 3 year warranty.

The other kit, uses a European made Rotrex supercharger - planetary gear unit (not centrifugal) running approx twice the bearing speed, that needs its own oil reservoir system and cooler and 2 year warranty - details we have read from their marketing material.

The VF kit utlizes an air/water induction cooling system which is superior to the traditional air/air intercooling. Some will argue this point, but water is a superior thermal conductor than air - any further debate may be inconsequential to this point.

The VF kit does not delete emissions components such as the Mass Air Flow sensor or Catalytic Inefficiency error codes from the OEM software and hence remains 48 state legal, and will soon be CARB approved making it ALL state legal.

The VF stage 1 makes 125rwhp on 91 octane on stock clutch, stock exhaust and stock cats - specifications which re-set the standards and offset the price/power comparison:).

[M3RALPH]

i don't have either system.....but if i were to get one it would be an AA just because i love the look of the front mount:thumbsup: lol

[Miami///M3]

AA all the way here and I like the fact that their system comes with a front mont and W/A injection which helps kool as well... You just dont have the air/water cooling...

[schulmann]

WBO: Wide Band Oxygen sensor (A must for tuners). Without this device a tuner is like a blind person driving a car.

MSpired you are right !

But these are design features regarding the movement of the SC device. As I told earlier: All supercharges are well designed. The main trouble always is the right ignition/AFR tuning under all load/rpm combination.

w/m versus air intercooling: (You forgot propane : your BBW fuel) It's like comparing NOS with Superchargers. W/M is a chimical way of intercooling. When you select one of them you base your choice on your philosophie .... But some creazy guys combine both of them. And the most HP addicted guys even add propane ... (I never went so far). I have seen guys driving with a bootle of NOS and two bottle of propane in their trunk. Believe me when you get to this point you must consulte a psycologue for your sever HP addiction. The key is increase boost as much as possible with the lower octane level fuel.

Regarding the boost: Find the right sized supercharger. Each company makes different sizes in deplacement. Having a too large deplacement will use excessive HPs from the engine. Don`t forget : the weakness of ALL supercharges is the HP consummed from the engin (10-30% !!!). This is why Turbos are so effective and make much more HP.

Vortex and Rotrex are both top quality products ....

Many guys focus on installation and design details instead of focusing on Tuning. And Tuning is the subject that matters !!!!

[schulmann]

Here is the trunk of a guy that suffers from a VERY sever HP addiction:

http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/nos1.jpg

[Nik@vf-engineering]

AA all the way here and I like the fact that their system comes with a front mont and W/A injection which helps kool as well... You just dont have the air/water cooling...

W/A may be great for track use, but we prefer a more self contained solution for long term use and convenience.

Here is our "front mount" water cooling radiator (OEM Porsche). :pimpin:

http://www.vf-engineering.com/unsecured/E46M3/greym3-2.jpg

[M3WannaBEE]

NO Intercooler no Want, not only do you get a SC for Power you get it for added sex appeal :)

[DLSJ5]

lol, I'll take which one makes my car go faster and which one cools better, those FMIC's block air to the A/C rad, not so with VF's air/water setup. So far I'm completley convinced with the same or lower boost and less supplemental mods the VF is faster, but I'm a big fan of AA as well. :thumbsup:

Both have proved reliable, the VF hardware is superior IMHO and I'm not bias on these facts in anyway. :rofl:

[M3RALPH]

i'll buy the one that the company gives me the biggest discount on!!!....so0 who wants to give me a great deal and sell a supercharger today??? lol

[BimmerDude18]

lol, I'll take which one makes my car go faster and which one cools better, those FMIC's block air to the A/C rad, not so with VF's air/water setup. So far I'm completley convinced with the same or lower boost and less supplemental mods the VF is faster, but I'm a big fan of AA as well. :thumbsup:

Both have proved reliable, the VF hardware is superior IMHO and I'm not bias on these facts in anyway. :rofl:

The issue with air/water is really more complicated than just which is more efficient a heat conductor (Also referring back to Nick's post here).

The conduction rate just determines the flow required to cool the intake air effectively, not which is actually more effective in execution. Air/Air is using fresh air constantly, typically adds a bit less weight to the car, is passive (no pumps required) and if you are running the car extra hard you can spray NOS/CO2 across the radiator, soak it in ice, etc. and easily cool the car during a break period at a track event. The downside is the larger size (plus for many buyers) and the fact that the extra piping will often reduce the effective boost pressure the engine sees (more restriction so more power loss from the SC as seen by the engine).

The Water/Air approach is consistent, but the water will often become much warmer than the fresh air, and although the long term run IAT's are generally a bit cooler on water/air, air to air in cooler conditions (below 75) or when cool downs are available (track events) etc. is more efficient - mostly due to the intercooler being cooled by fresh air and not water that is only radiating heat out the front mount cooler.

The interesting part to me, is that both systems work effectively, but typically in factory turbo applications you see an air/air (ala STi, Evo, etc. etc.) and in factory TS applications you typically see Air/Water. I think that packaging is the real cause of this, and that because different manufacturers have used both effectively (VERY) it is evidence this shouldn't be the sole consideration.

W/A or W/M injection is a great backup - I don't believe (correct me if wrong) AA is using it in primary tuning etc., but it is offered/recommended to help keep the engine safer when you run harder/longer and at higher boost levels. Everyone obv. knows its just a charge cooler that uses the heat of evaporation to cool the IAT - arguing that its a bad idea is like arguing a water/air system is bad because it isn't passive. In all reality if you refill the bottle before track events etc. you're fine, and it really helps keep the engine from overheating.

All that aside - the arguement for AA is that they are more open to custom setups/tuning, and have more experience working with the M3's. Deleting the MAF and using "alpha N" or whatever anyone wants to refer to it as may not be ideal in anyones eyes, but the results are better, the engines run better while making more power and to most people, the results are what matters. Just as going from OBD-II to OBD-I in the E36 to make more power wasn't really a "better" way to make power, it was easier, cheaper, and really hurt nothing long term so why not?

[DLSJ5]

The issue with air/water is really more complicated than just which is more efficient a heat conductor (Also referring back to Nick's post here).

The conduction rate just determines the flow required to cool the intake air effectively, not which is actually more effective in execution. Air/Air is using fresh air constantly, typically adds a bit less weight to the car, is passive (no pumps required) and if you are running the car extra hard you can spray NOS/CO2 across the radiator, soak it in ice, etc. and easily cool the car during a break period at a track event. The downside is the larger size (plus for many buyers) and the fact that the extra piping will often reduce the effective boost pressure the engine sees (more restriction so more power loss from the SC as seen by the engine).

The Water/Air approach is consistent, but the water will often become much warmer than the fresh air, and although the long term run IAT's are generally a bit cooler on water/air, air to air in cooler conditions (below 75) or when cool downs are available (track events) etc. is more efficient - mostly due to the intercooler being cooled by fresh air and not water that is only radiating heat out the front mount cooler.

The interesting part to me, is that both systems work effectively, but typically in factory turbo applications you see an air/air (ala STi, Evo, etc. etc.) and in factory TS applications you typically see Air/Water. I think that packaging is the real cause of this, and that because different manufacturers have used both effectively (VERY) it is evidence this shouldn't be the sole consideration.

W/A or W/M injection is a great backup - I don't believe (correct me if wrong) AA is using it in primary tuning etc., but it is offered/recommended to help keep the engine safer when you run harder/longer and at higher boost levels. Everyone obv. knows its just a charge cooler that uses the heat of evaporation to cool the IAT - arguing that its a bad idea is like arguing a water/air system is bad because it isn't passive. In all reality if you refill the bottle before track events etc. you're fine, and it really helps keep the engine from overheating.

All that aside - the arguement for AA is that they are more open to custom setups/tuning, and have more experience working with the M3's. Deleting the MAF and using "alpha N" or whatever anyone wants to refer to it as may not be ideal in anyones eyes, but the results are better, the engines run better while making more power and to most people, the results are what matters. Just as going from OBD-II to OBD-I in the E36 to make more power wasn't really a "better" way to make power, it was easier, cheaper, and really hurt nothing long term so why not?


:hmm:

[Nik@vf-engineering]

...Deleting the MAF and using "alpha N" or whatever anyone wants to refer to it as may not be ideal in anyones eyes, but the results are better, the engines run better while making more power and to most people, the results are what matters. Just as going from OBD-II to OBD-I in the E36 to make more power wasn't really a "better" way to make power, it was easier, cheaper, and really hurt nothing long term so why not?

We dont believe that back dating the E46 M3 by removing the MAF to be something that our customers would really want to do. Not being able to tune the car with its original emissions equipment leaves something to be desired not considered an advantage. The MAF was put there for a reason.

[MSpired]

Oh jeez, here we go again....

[OCswedishM3]

We dont believe that back dating the E46 M3 by removing the MAF to be something that our customers would really want to do. Not being able to tune the car with its original emissions equipment leaves something to be desired not considered an advantage. The MAF was put there for a reason.

A SC M3 runs flawless with no MAF. No stalling, no limp modes, no shift lags. EVER. There are no CARB certified e46 M3 kits right now so it doesnt really matter about emissions, no Kits would pass. I have heard of multiple companies say they are going to try and do so...but when it comes down to it, its just heresay. So untill 1 company actually comes through.....oh and once u change the stock cats and headers it wont pass emissions anyways. So i guess your only bet would be a stage 1 level and as you know from your consumers already, most want stage 2 or higher. I know this because most who have your VF are waiting for stage 2

[BimmerDude18]

We dont believe that back dating the E46 M3 by removing the MAF to be something that our customers would really want to do. Not being able to tune the car with its original emissions equipment leaves something to be desired not considered an advantage. The MAF was put there for a reason.I don't want to start the debate again, but the sales of kits where the MAF is deleted speaks for the market.

I wouldn't have thought people would be willing to pay extra ordinary amounts of money for CCFL tubed covered in plastic and sold as angel eyes, but they did, and still do.

I give you credit for not making a product that uses old technology, but if you can make more power more reliably with older technology, the only downside is that its older technology. Everything in a car is a compromise, the customers who choose to go sans a maf or sans cats, etc., are aware of the decisions they make before they make them....

[schulmann]

:hmm:

If just one guy knew what is the purpose of the MAF sensor ... we wouldn't discuss it .

Again I might be wrong ... since I don't know the internals of the BMW ECU.

Since MAF is deleted I presume the car can adjust the AFR by other means. So MAF is useless for tuning and to pass emission control.

Emission is checked my measuring the CO, HC, NO levels in the exhauste. As long as you have the righ cats and the right AFR you pass emission.

In other cars that I previously tunned I always used the MAP (Mainfold air pressure) sensor and the RPM to inject fuel since the ECU didn't have a WBO.
The best and easest way to tune the AFR is to have OEM WBO. Then other inputs like: MAF, AIT, Coolant temp can help to accelerate the AFR setup cycle.

In the BMW I presume the ECU sets the Fuel pulses on other means than the MAF.