High RPM / Load "Missing" - 05' M3 AA SC'd. HELP PLEASE!

[zracer196]

Also posted in the GEN section too...Thought maybe the FI guys would know more...

Posted this a bit ago...More info now.

Car has 35K on it...About 5K on it with NEW AA Stg 3 kit installed by AA (Feb 07'). I just bought it about 750 miles ago...Ran 100% until this:

Put a full tank of fuel in it last Friday (11/23/07)...Was almost empty.
Went about 20 miles or so and ran it hard through 5th gear on highway (nice little Z06 race - posted earlier). Noticed it was missing A BIT up high in the RPM's under higher load in the higher gears.

Still on the same tank of gas (it is not a daily driver). It seems to have gotten worse. Not consistently the same though...A little different (worse or better) each time. NO ISSUES under normal driving...At least not yet.

The AF ratio is RICH. Under full throttle, it is in the high 10's or low 11's. Not where it ran before this tank of fuel. The idle is also a bit higher AT TIMES. Not consistently high.

I know others have said bad coils...I have NO CODES showing up. I bought new Denso Iridium plugs (correct ones) & fuel injection cleaner. I am hoping when I put new fuel in it and change the plugs, it is OK.

I also have an appt. with the BMW dealership next week to check the coils (if the problem isn't gone this weekend).

My thoughts are that the typical symptoms with bad coils do not seem the same for me. Any others have issues like mine? Anyone have bad fuel that made the car run like this?

I love this car but this is annoying to have this happen 1 month later...I always stayed clear of modified cars like this because of these potential hard to diagnose issues (at least by the normal techs).

Hopefully it cures itself when I put the next tank of fuel in...

Thanks in advance!!

[///JTM3]

100% Its your igntion coils.... Call you local dealer and order a set...

I had the same exact issue. My car would start sputtering after i passed 5k rpm... .. Put some IXU24's (Denso Iridium) Spark plugs and new igntion coils.... Solve all my missfiring problems...

2005 M3 come with Bremi Coils.. They are now Discontinued and Replace with a Different bran.... Call your dealer now...

PS... No Fualt Codes will show up.... You just have to buy new ones.

[zracer196]

Man...They go just like that?? One day it is OK, then it goes? How did you know it was not just the plugs? Sounds like something other than the plugs to me...BUT I wonder.

I have an appt. with the dealership to check them. It also seemed AFTER they saw my car with the mods (and set up the appt.) my car still has the warranty. The service advisor actually complemented me on the car and the install!

I guess I will wait to install the plugs to have the coils checked...Don't want to ruin new plugs!

Thanks!

[Miami///M3]

Wait to see what the dealers tells you and also put in a new tank of gas, but try a different gas station, cuz some station just do have bad gas, it happens, but not likely... If they change the plugs and coils and you fill up with new gas and it stills happen, call AA for their tech support or if not it looks like you might have to make a trip down to AA, so they can take car of the problem... goodluck

[zracer196]

Thanks Miami...I called AA. They said it could the coils / bad gas / plugs...BUT could not say for sure obviously w/o seeing the car...

They were going to sell me plugs first, but I found them locally. I would hate to foul them IF it is the coils though...I may just wait until Tuesday when I have the appt with BMW.

[///JTM3]

The dealer wont be able to tell if the coils are bad or now.... Mspired was experiancing the same thing, and he took it to the dealer and they told him that unless it set off a Code they wont be able to do anything about it...

I changed my spark plugs a week before i changed the ignition coils... After i changed the problem went away for a lil bit.. and then it came back... Then i changed my coils... Been happy every since and my car is running stronger than ever.....

Its not a AA issue, its an issue with the car.... Trust me i went through the exact same delima...

[zracer196]

JT...Happy to hear you are pretty confident...

But my (and maybe yours too) symptoms are not like others described on this forum...Most are lower RPM, hard starting, bucking, idle problems, etc. Mine are ONLY high rpms.

Tell me yours were only HIGH rpms! Please!

THANKS for taking the time here!

[///JTM3]

Yup only up top.... Lets say i im rolling at about 75 mph in 3rd gear, and i punch it... As soon as i start to pass 5,000 rpm my car would start to sputter and jerk... it would take forever to hit 7,800 rpm..

[zracer196]

SAME thing! Makes me feel better!

How much / where did you get the coils?

Thanks again!

[zracer196]

My bad...Saw you bought them at the dealer...Hopefully not too much!

Installation easy? Maybe similar to a motorcycle? I am pretty handy with sportbikes...Raced them for 12 years.

[///JTM3]

i bought them for about $27 each... But thats because my shop has an account with the local BMW dealer... i think for customers they charge about $35 each...

Once you take off the Black valve cover cover.. the ignition coils pull right out....

[Miami///M3]

Well It sounds like you two narrowed down the problem, thats good... well goodluck with everything zracer196....

[zracer196]

Thanks!

I will be buying some tomorrow...Hopefully they will help me out!

I will post what happens...

[MSpired]

It's 99% your coils. The most strain you can put on your coils is a cold night, full throttle, redline in high gears, and it looks like you did all of the above.

Don'y waste your time and money with the OEM coils. I just replaced my coils with bran new OEM coils and went out racing hard last week and my car started misfiring again. Buy the Plasma coils, they are expensive (over $700), but it looks like it's a must for people that drive hard...

Maybe we can setup a group buy, cause I know a few people that want them.

[zracer196]

The car is apart now (very easy)...Plugs go in tomorrow night...If the dealer has the OEM ones, I will get those for now. It is killing me not knowing for sure what it is...

Seems crazy that the OEM coils in a car like this cannot last. I wonder HOW the car is harder on them just due to an SC?

BUT I am still interested in the plasmas...

Thanks for the advice...I'll post ASAP when it's done and tested.

[MSpired]

The car is apart now (very easy)...Plugs go in tomorrow night...If the dealer has the OEM ones, I will get those for now. It is killing me not knowing for sure what it is...

Seems crazy that the OEM coils in a car like this cannot last. I wonder HOW the car is harder on them just due to an SC?

BUT I am still interested in the plasmas...

Thanks for the advice...I'll post ASAP when it's done and tested.

The OEM coils are known to go out even on stock cars. You are adding over 150hp, and i'm sure, just like me, you are driving the hell out of it each time you take it out as it's not your daily driver. It's not hard to beleive they won't hold up...

[HPF Chris]

We have to replace the coils in 50% of the E46 M3's that come into our shop to get turbo'd. This is because the aged Bremi coils do not charge up enough between firing to arc the spark plug gap under high boost. The new coil packs are much better, although on one occasion we did get one "new" coil pack that was defective. The higher the cylinder pressure, the harder to arc the same plug gap. We also gap the plugs down as well.

Chris.

[Miami///M3]

Mspired where can I get these plasma coils you are talking, and where also can I research on them? Interested in changing my stock coils when the time comes to these coils... thanks

[steelgrey330ci]

yeah same thing here went on for a bit till I found the issue. I was running rich on my A/F guage then did a dyno and saw a lose of 25rwhp

Changed the coils to bavarin ones and the plugs to Ik22

everything is fine now.Did a dyno and power is all back

[zracer196]

Good to know...Thanks for all the input.

I took all of the coils to the BMW dealer...He is being pretty nice. I first tried to buy them (over $50 each for the new "ERA" coils) outright. Told me to put it back together and bring the car in...He will do some other test (since the codes will not show up with the reflashed by AA DME) on the coils and replace them under warranty.

He also said that "BMW didn't know there was an SC on the car"...I was pretty surprised since I did not buy the car or any car from them!

Nice to see!

We'll see how it goes Monday / Tuesday!

[MSpired]

We have to replace the coils in 50% of the E46 M3's that come into our shop to get turbo'd. This is because the aged Bremi coils do not charge up enough between firing to arc the spark plug gap under high boost. The new coil packs are much better, although on one occasion we did get one "new" coil pack that was defective. The higher the cylinder pressure, the harder to arc the same plug gap. We also gap the plugs down as well.

Chris.

Chris,

If you don't mind me asking, what spark plugs and what gap are you guys using?

Mspired where can I get these plasma coils you are talking, and where also can I research on them? Interested in changing my stock coils when the time comes to these coils... thanks

I think Johney has a direct contact with Plasma. What's up Johney, set it up!

Here is there link:

http://www.okadaprojects.com/usa/products.htm

yeah same thing here went on for a bit till I found the issue. I was running rich on my A/F guage then did a dyno and saw a lose of 25rwhp

Changed the coils to bavarin ones and the plugs to Ik22

everything is fine now.Did a dyno and power is all back

I totoally forgot about teh Bav Auto ones, thanks for reminding me, i'ma see if there are any reviews on them.

Good to know...Thanks for all the input.

I took all of the coils to the BMW dealer...He is being pretty nice. I first tried to buy them (over $50 each for the new "ERA" coils) outright. Told me to put it back together and bring the car in...He will do some other test (since the codes will not show up with the reflashed by AA DME) on the coils and replace them under warranty.

He also said that "BMW didn't know there was an SC on the car"...I was pretty surprised since I did not buy the car or any car from them!

Nice to see!

We'll see how it goes Monday / Tuesday!


Wow! You are so luck, wish my dealer was that nice! :bawling:

[sniperm]

U need plasma coils...

i need some too!

but wats the difference bav auto and plasma performance wise??

[MSpired]

U need plasma coils...

i need some too!

but wats the difference bav auto and plasma performance wise??

I just researched both and the Bav Auto ones are pretty much liek stock, no point. I read many reviews that the Plasma's actually give you horsepower, usualyl aroung 10rwhp.

I'm going to try to set up a group buy for us :thumbsup:

[sniperm]

I just researched both and the Bav Auto ones are pretty much liek stock, no point. I read many reviews that the Plasma's actually give you horsepower, usualyl aroung 10rwhp.

I'm going to try to set up a group buy for us :thumbsup:



thanx for the info!!

i called bav auto and they didnt know the difference...


so, the plasma coils is the way to go!

if u can set up a GB.. im IN!

[Miami///M3]

Mspired I am also in for a GB, if you decide to do that just let me know.. Thanks

[MSpired]

Nice! Hang in guys, I should have some info tomorrow. Most likely will be under $600 for a set, hopefully much less!

[Miami///M3]

Thanks Mspired, sounds good... Just let me know

[zracer196]

Me too! I'll have my oem ones as back up!

[sniperm]

thanx man!!

[Saintly]

I read many reviews that the Plasma's actually give you horsepower, usualyl aroung 10rwhp. :thumbsup:

Correct. Was the easiest thing I did and noticed the difference straight away!:) I don't gap my plugs down anymore.

[MSpired]

Good news... Bad news.....

Bad news is that they recently increased there prices on the coils, the cheapest I got them for is $820 for 5+ sets.

Good news is I submitted an application to the manufacturer to become a dealer and hopefully we can get much better pricing.

I'll keep you guys informed.

[DLSJ5]

Chris,

If you don't mind me asking, what spark plugs and what gap are you guys using?



Good question Mikey.

[MSpired]

Well guys, it looks like $820 is the cheapest so far... expensive, but it looks like it's a must for FI M3's...

[sniperm]

i should call vivid again.. and see wat kind of price they offer..

one of my buddys paid $780 shipped from vivid..

[MSpired]

i should call vivid again.. and see wat kind of price they offer..

one of my buddys paid $780 shipped from vivid..

The price above is from Vivid :hmm:

I do know that the manufacture keeps raising their prices, they used to be around $400 2 years ago. A friend of mine got them from Vivid for about $680 a few months ago.

[zracer196]

Put the new plugs in...Since it is going to the dealer Tuesday...Figured they would charge me for install!

Made the car run worse...Probably the coil going bad every time I run it...Taking it out and re-installing it, etc.

We'll see Tuesday! Hopefully I have my CAR back running 100%!

[zracer196]

All fixed...$210 later for OEM coils...The dealer told me they were ERA brand? Not Bosche or Bremi. I have the replacement down to about 40 minutes...EASY job. Installed new Densos too...

The dealer had me bring it in...They were going to try and warranty the problem...But as I figured, they could not "see" the problem since no codes came up for them. Oh well...At least that was all it was!

Just took it out tonight...COLD here in Florida tonight (about 50 degrees)...Tire spinning in second gear!!! Happy again!

BTW...It is running under full boost (Approx. 9+ lbs.) about 11.2 - 11.7 AF ratio...Low or OK?

[///JTM3]

Congrats bro... Told jya :thumbsup:

The new coils make a big difference... You car feels like it has more like it has more crisper throttle...

[Miami///M3]

Sounds good zracer196... I ordered the plasma coils on monday and I hoping to get them in by atleast friday cuz I cant wait to put them in my car... Should make a big difference... Glad it all got fix for you though

[zracer196]

You guys were 100% right! THANKS AGAIN!!

Any thoughts on my AF ratio? Is it a BIT rich or OK? Maybe the AF sensor got fouled by running RICH for a bit until I replaced the coils? Just a guess (or a dumb one!).

[MSpired]

All fixed...$210 later for OEM coils...The dealer told me they were ERA brand? Not Bosche or Bremi. I have the replacement down to about 40 minutes...EASY job. Installed new Densos too...

The dealer had me bring it in...They were going to try and warranty the problem...But as I figured, they could not "see" the problem since no codes came up for them. Oh well...At least that was all it was!

Just took it out tonight...COLD here in Florida tonight (about 50 degrees)...Tire spinning in second gear!!! Happy again!

BTW...It is running under full boost (Approx. 9+ lbs.) about 11.2 - 11.7 AF ratio...Low or OK?


Hopefully they won't go out again like mine did :thumbsup:

Mine is running very rich too, 10.8's. I'ma reset teh adaptations and see if that helps.

[MSpired]

Sounds good zracer196... I ordered the plasma coils on monday and I hoping to get them in by atleast friday cuz I cant wait to put them in my car... Should make a big difference... Glad it all got fix for you though

How much did you get them from and from where?

[Miami///M3]

How much did you get them from and from where?

I got them from vividracing for $835 shipped and that is because I got a 3-day ship...

[zracer196]

Mspired...Getting my adaptions cleared on Friday by the dealer...I will report on what happens. Spoke to AA about it and they said it should bring the AFR back to where it was...

[sniperm]

any updates on getting the plasma coils?? anyone try to get a GB?

[sniperm]

i need plasma...help....

[zracer196]

I need my car to run leaner! Don't know what happened!

Installed the new coils, plugs (the correct ones and checked the gap). Had the adaptives cleared by the dealer...

Was running 11.8 (5K rpm) - 12.2 (near redline).

Now runs 11.2 (5K rpm) - 11.8 (near redline).

No clue. I am going to dyno it again next week and check the AFR with their system...Also see what HP it is making. The car FEELS good though.

[MSpired]

I need my car to run leaner! Don't know what happened!

Installed the new coils, plugs (the correct ones and checked the gap). Had the adaptives cleared by the dealer...

Was running 11.8 (5K rpm) - 12.2 (near redline).

Now runs 11.2 (5K rpm) - 11.8 (near redline).

No clue. I am going to dyno it again next week and check the AFR with their system...Also see what HP it is making. The car FEELS good though.

I'm having the same exact issues, reset my adaptations and still running extremely rich...

[sniperm]

everyone that was interested in plasma coils pm me!! i called vivid and they said they will give me a deal if i have 5 ppl.

whos in???

1. sniperM
2.
3.
4.
5.

[MSpired]

everyone that was interested in plasma coils pm me!! i called vivid and they said they will give me a deal if i have 5 ppl.

whos in???

1. sniperM
2.
3.
4.
5.

I just bought a set used....

How much did Vivid say for 5? They told me $820 was the best price.

[sniperm]

I just bought a set used....

How much did Vivid say for 5? They told me $820 was the best price.


they wouldnt give me the price until im sure i have 3 or 5 ppl..

but its $789 or $798 from there website..

btw, do we need to clear adaptations after installing this? or is it install and good to go?

[MSpired]

they wouldnt give me the price until im sure i have 3 or 5 ppl..

but its $789 or $798 from there website..

btw, do we need to clear adaptations after installing this? or is it install and good to go?

Good to go!

[sniperm]

cool.