TD Water to Air charge cooler - suggestions welcome

[320de46m47]

I have installed an air to air intercooler on my 320D which works great http://www.unitedbimmer.com/forums/forced-induction/12016-project-intercooler-upgrade.html

I'm now thinking of going one better and doing the water to air charge cooler. This will shorten the run and and provide additional cooling so obvious benefits. :) I'm thinking of running the turbo pipe work through the centre void of the fan cowling between the oem rad and viscous fan and positioning the charge cooler in the space inside the cowling. So there will be a hole in the cowling at 9 and 3 o'clock. The water rad will replace the intercooler. A pump will sit on the left of the cowling and a header tank to the right. Any ideas thoughts suggestions appreciated ...specifically sizing the rad and pump.
sketch of my plan (aerial view of charge cooler).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/lovemarinaok/car%20things/chargecooler-2.jpg

At this point in time my questions are:
How big a rad?
How big a pump do I need?
What size tubing for the water rad?
Any particular brand of rad recommended?
Cheers
Simon

[320de46m47]

i would think any old air con condenser would serve for the rad? the pump ..i'm not sure ..10 litres a minute? 2 speed? i will be buying the charge cooler off ebay probably . i did read of a guy who welded up his own using an old car heater matrix and some alloy casing, but it looked pants. when you consider that water is 4 x the specific heat capacity of air and the turbo to manifold pipe run will be considerably shorter, it's got to be better..

[320de46m47]

well well zero response ...what am i doing wrong?

i would think any old air con condenser would serve for the rad? the pump ..i'm not sure ..10 litres a minute? 2 speed? well what the hell i bought this audi one
http://www.domizil-am-meer.de/Eigene%20Dateien/ebaybilder/Wasserpumpe/Pumpe-1.jpg
$50

i will be buying the charge cooler off ebay probably one like this one
http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/de/cc/dbde_1.JPG.

i did read of a guy who welded up his own using an old car heater matrix and some alloy casing, but it looked pants. when you consider that water is 4 x the specific heat capacity of air and the turbo to manifold pipe run will be considerably shorter, it's got to be better..

something I should have done long ago in order to measure temperature was get a k type themocouple and something to display it.. i've opted for these..
http://www.e3b6a5y.com/365/images/365-k2m.jpg
$10
http://www.e3b6a5y.com/365/images/365-thermometer-00.gif
$15
im not sure how im going to connect the thermocouple yet ...advice appreciated

[paraklas]

well well zero response ...what am i doing wrong?



Probably because you are the only one here with a 320d ? Good luck though, I always watch the progress of your projects.

the pump choice is probably the 2nd most important thing to look for as you want it to be able to move the coolant fast enough to cool the max volume of air consumed by the engine. The heat exchanger should be spec'ed to be able to cool the air coming in.

[320de46m47]

yes but not the only one with FI ..
it's all a bit hit and miss at this stage i must admit ...lots of guess work
im hoping the thermocouple will give me some idea of whats going on
i should have bought one right at the outset i know
ive been looking for one that will screw into the rubber inlet hose (as if it all goes pair shaped it's more disposable) with some sort of plumbing gland
although another possibility is the egr housing (mine is aftermarket straight though ie no egr)...might be more sensible as it's steel and i can tap it correctly...just that the worst case scenario is something breaking off and getting injested.. very little info out there. i think im ok with the display though as it is k type. as regards air to water rad ...i'll find whatever fits and whatever is biggest. plan is to reduce the run from turbo to manifold as much as is possible. i do have two spal fans to strap onto the air water rad too :)

[320de46m47]

btw ive been eagerly awaiting your m3 mirrors write up! where are they at?

the pump i bought is 13 litres per minute ...have seen one here http://www.awpish.co.uk/motor/tubby/chargeCooler_3.html
48 litres per minute!!!

[paraklas]

Might want to read this for my M3 mirrors (http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=64465) :(

[320de46m47]

sorry to hear about that..
do you drive on the left in cyprus?
if so i have uk spec folding m3 mirrors but black ... send me a pm if interested

just won my first charge cooler on ebay! i cant believe how states side you pay a fifth or less what we pay here in europe for these things

[paraklas]

PM sent!

url of the charge cooler? ;)

[320de46m47]

http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/fc/49/b5f4_1.JPG

[320de46m47]

here's a sketch of my project ... being as i haven't done this before as i said advice much appreciated
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/lovemarinaok/car%20things/73.png
i'm a bit in a muddle over the choice of air to water rads .. am i right in thinking any rad (the right size) will do the job? i'm thinking a/c compressor because the pipes are smaller. you see these very expensive alloy race radiators (on ebay) ... but why would you need one of those? also dont understand why inlet and outlet are midway (i.e. not one top one bottom like conventional)
cheers guys

[paraklas]

ESS uses the Setrab oil coolers as heat exchangers, so you might want to check them out.. http://www.setrab.com/index.php?id=6

http://www.bakerprecision.com/setrab.htm

[320de46m47]

cheers ears
look expensive..i just want some cheap sh1t
haven't checked out the mirrors yet .. will do next week btw

[320de46m47]

hi im really looking for some good advice here in terms of :

boost gauge on inlet manifold ...not t piece in wastegate (a diesel vgt turbo has no wastegate).
a 12v 15 watt motor controller wired in with relay to manually control the pump from the dash with a pot. I figure the pump is going to be on all the time but would like to be able to adjust the speed.

[paraklas]

I think it's pointless to adjust the speed of the pump since you want it to work full power all the time, more flow = better cooling. Boost gauge it depends how much you want to spend, there are hundreds of analogue gauges cheap on ebay, there are also some digital ones from AEM which cost..

btw I want the mirrors ;)

[320de46m47]

i was coming round to that point of view also! lol

but can i find a boost gauge instal in the inlet manifold on the internet..errr no!

[paraklas]

Why don't you put the boost sensor in one of the holes that the manifold flaps used to be? I remember you took them out and covered the holes

[Kanaljen]

Check out

http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?cPath=207&osCsid=fc011186b1378f42f041acb21699647e

Should have the heat exchanger you're looking for.. as well as pump, intercooler, hoses...

GL!

[320de46m47]

Hi thanks !

I already have :-

charge cooler
pump

now need ...

air con rad
pipework for rad
pipework for chargecooler

issues for me are now: -

measuring temp of air at inlet
measuring boost at inlet (vgt turbo)
water pump speed and activation control
need for header tank?
how air con rad /oil cooler rad works? what's best to cool water in a small circuit on a 15 watt motor?

cheers ears

[Kanaljen]

For the air temp..

Search for "SP Engineering"
They have a meter with two sensors. one for before IC, one for after.. you can also see the difference between these two temps.

[320de46m47]

thanks fella but im in Italy

plan has advanced a fraction

the pump is VAG 12 Volts 1.3 amps 13.3 litres a minute -40 TO +135C

the motor speed control and potentiometer ive just bought is rated Input 12VDC - 40VDC, output Maximum current 3A, shortcut protect current 3.5A

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/lovemarinaok/car%20things/webwaterinjectiondiagram.gif

i dont think i need a header tank just a rad with a cap.
i dont think i need a boost pressure or temp switch...it'll be on all the time

any advice out there?

[320de46m47]

anyone suggest a forum (english) where i might get some help? it is a non wasteated diesel btw!