Question for supercharged 330 owners

[juslookin]

So ive been saving up a little to boost my zhp. im aiming for 300whp. im curious what else i should upgrade with it. and the pros and cons of your kits(AA, VF, ESS) from personal experience

[_Calle_]

I have gained personally however still no experience.
But I soon get the TS2 von ESS. Early rising achievement and good competence of ESS. The most will advise you certainly to ESS. :thumbsup:

[jetskier88]

ESS TS2 ....... end of story.... best kit for our car hands down....
looks stock, drives like stock, sounds like stock, but has sick ass power at low RPM that just keeps pulling and pulling which puts a big smile on your face lol

like last night i was on the freeway and 2 guys in a modded G37 pull up next to me then floor it by me.. i had no idea wat was goin on... after i catch up to them, i see them smiling as if they had won or something.. i pull up next to him at 80 in 3rd gear... we do the 3 honks.. and just pulled on him like nothing.. about 9 car lengths until 145...

Moral of Story: GET THIS KIT

[Activ3]

AA C38 lvl II. 330whp :thumbup:

[paraklas]

Well it's like I got a new car with the ESS TS2 kit. No problems whatsoever, not even in very cold/hot weather.

From ESS website

Boost pressure: 8 PSI
Horsepower: 360SAE/340SAE Auto (Stock 235SAE)
Torque: 320 ft/lbs /290 ft/lbs Auto (Stock 222ft/lbs)
Correction factor for drivetrain loss is 15% above RWHP as seen in dynograph (RWHP/0.85)
0 - 60: Man : 4.7 sec, Aut : 5.4 sec
Installation time : 8-10 hours

[Bimmerguy82]

i was thinking of going with the VF kit, but now i might save up even more for the ESS.

[jetskier88]

i was thinking of going with the VF kit, but now i might save up even more for the ESS.

yea originally i was gonna go with the TS1 when i first started putting together some money... but when i got up to $6k im like wtf??? for just $2k more i can have a water cooler, higher boost, and more power

[Dirtboy]

ESS TS2+ with cams and headers...:4ngie:

[Bimmerguy82]

ESS TS2+ with cams and headers...:4ngie:

Exactly. I'm getting a Zhp so i will already have cams. then i'll get an ebay header, exhaust, ltw flywheel, 3.46 diff. my car will be SICK! :4ngie:

[Maestroxl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsHOPcn5mdo

[jetskier88]

Exactly. I'm getting a Zhp so i will already have cams. then i'll get an ebay header, exhaust, ltw flywheel, 3.46 diff. my car will be SICK! :4ngie:

ha i have all that besides the diff

[TxZHP04]

Exactly. I'm getting a Zhp so i will already have cams. then i'll get an ebay header, exhaust, ltw flywheel, 3.46 diff. my car will be SICK! :4ngie:

You probably don't want a 3.46 with a twin screw. First gear would be getting close to useless and you'd always find yourself running out of gear. A 3.15 or 3.23 is perfect with a TS. The 3.07 in the ZHP isn't too bad but I'm very glad I upgraded to a 3.23.

[sillieidiot]

^ would you recommend those ratios for all the TS stages? or just 2+?

[nashvillezhp]

Totally depends on what you want to spend. I'd go with the ESS TS2 or TS2+ if money weren't a factor. I went with the AA stage II kit and am pleased with the results. I have a thread on this. Actually still on the first page right now. If you are guy that needs low end torque, go with the ESS kit.

Keep in mind, you'll end up spending a lot more money than you thought you would on all the mods.

[sillieidiot]

^ thanks for the reply, though you still didn't answer my question.

[MachRc]

any sc will have a hard time with any short ratio differential. too much power and not enough room just make too much power..(yes too much) to drive normally on the lower gears and can even be dangerous.


so its much smoother, and power is more plentyful when you spread it out with a tall gearing of lets say 3.07( zhp) so you can have some slack on the freeway, and enough time IN boost, not changing gears.



edit:
sometimes in the quest for power, most lose sights on the dynamics of the car...

[TxZHP04]

^ would you recommend those ratios for all the TS stages? or just 2+?

Yes, I think anything in the 3.07 to 3.23 range would be ideal for the majority of TS owners of all stages. Everyone's preferences are different though.

[TxZHP04]

any sc will have a hard time with any short ratio differential.

One might argue that a 3.38 or 3.46 would actually be very well matched with a centrifugal supercharger since they produce so little boost in the lower rpm range.

[juslookin]

how are the VF kits? thats the one i was leaning towards. if i were to get a ess kit i would go with the TS1.

[MachRc]

how are the VF kits? thats the one i was leaning towards. if i were to get a ess kit i would go with the TS1.


vf kits are limited to stage one.
they are more afforable and packs a vortech centrifugal blower.

[MachRc]

One might argue that a 3.38 or 3.46 would actually be very well matched with a centrifugal supercharger since they produce so little boost in the lower rpm range.

i didnt like the 3.46 even when I didnt have a supercharger..it wasnt the five speed factor, but more high stringing the first and 2nd gears.

took coupla days to get used to the 3.07...i get real zen like feedback and too short of gears make the car feel like a golf with 6 speeds.. i enjoy being able to drive on the freeway just in fourth gear.

its really personal preference. But again...going too short changes the overall dynamic of the car.

i agree 3.12 prob the best gearing between race and driving comfort. I like the more slack.. keep me at 4rpm at higher speeds.

[paraklas]

One might argue that a 3.38 or 3.46 would actually be very well matched with a centrifugal supercharger since they produce so little boost in the lower rpm range.

I got a 3.38 :eeps: but a couple of CC less than the rest of you :cry:

[sillieidiot]

Yes, I think anything in the 3.07 to 3.23 range would be ideal for the majority of TS owners of all stages. Everyone's preferences are different though.

thanks for answering my question

[Dirtboy]

FWIW, I've got the stock 2.93 and first is almost useless with the TS2+. When I hammer it, I go through the gears pretty fast (all 5 of them:rolleyes:).

[TxZHP04]

Time in first is going to be really short no matter what ratio you have. Obviously the shorter the final drive, the quicker it goes by. If you go too short on the final drive, you also start having major traction problems - which is what I was referring to earlier when I was talking about first being useless.

[juslookin]

being limited to stage is no big deal. i just want a reliable kit. has anybody heard any good/bad thing about the VF kits. also is there anything else i should upgrade with one of these kits (clutch,internals,etc.)

[ModBargains]

AA C38 lvl II. 330whp :thumbup:

+1

I have had nothing but great comments about the Active Autowerke kit. It produces 320hp and does not have any reliability issues. It even comes with a 2 year warranty:thumbsup:. Let me know if I can help you get a kit for your car.

http://www.modbargains.com/images/Products/Active_Autowerks/E46%20M3%20SC.jpg (http://www.modbargains.com/product.aspx?pf_id=AA_SC_Kit_E46_3Series_KY)

[max123]

man, the OP really got me thinking about supercharging my ZHP,
i'm wondering if the ESS TS1 will make it as fast as an M3!

[beanfree]

Having done a million mods. I would supercharge it and leave it alone after that. No other mods. It will be as fast as a M3.

[Asbjorn@ESS]

man, the OP really got me thinking about supercharging my ZHP,
i'm wondering if the ESS TS1 will make it as fast as an M3!

Yes, TS1 ZHP is as fast as a M3, if not slightly faster. It has considerably more torque and similar top end compared to a M3.

[jetskier88]

Having done a million mods. I would supercharge it and leave it alone after that. No other mods. It will be as fast as a M3.

ha that sounds like me when i first supercharged my car... then of course i told myself i needed a new clutch to hold more power... then i needed to upgrade my brakes to stop better... then i need coilovers to handle better .... blahhhb blaaahhh blahh..

IT NEVER ENDS... if you dont plan to spend an obnoxious amount of money into your car... STOP NOW

[BMW_Matt]

jet are u slushbox or 6 spd?

[sillieidiot]

^ his is manual. look at his mods: clutch, ssk, flywheel

[BMW_Matt]

^ his is manual. look at his mods: clutch, ssk, flywheel

:impulss::banghead:

oops

[brycerichert]

being limited to stage is no big deal. i just want a reliable kit. has anybody heard any good/bad thing about the VF kits. also is there anything else i should upgrade with one of these kits (clutch,internals,etc.)


The VF is great (so far). No cooling option so I installed a meth/water injection system for the track. I can give it to my wife and she has no idea that all that power is there. She can't really get in trouble with it because she always shifts before 3000-3500 and is light on the gas anyways.

[TxZHP04]

The VF is great (so far). ...I can give it to my wife and she has no idea that all that power is there. She can't really get in trouble with it because she always shifts before 3000-3500 and is light on the gas anyways.

I mean no offense to all the non-TS owners here but...

any SC I have to rev to 4k just to start to feel the boost seems like a waste of money to me. This is the exact reason I don't own a VF or any other centrifugal system - they offer no bottom end power gains.

[Activ3]

I mean no offense to all the non-TS owners here but...

any SC I have to rev to 4k just to start to feel the boost seems like a waste of money to me. This is the exact reason I don't own a VF or any other centrifugal system - they offer no bottom end power gains.


While that's a relatively honest statement, I'll add in that I don't think the TS units have the same top end power as the centri-powered cars, they seem to have great low end power, but from what I've seen in trap speeds and such, it's like they lose it up top? I think I remember ESS claiming their ASA kit to run a low 13 with like a 108 or 109 trap speed? I haven't seen a TS unit trap that high yet... The TS3 will, but that's for obvious reasons.

[TxZHP04]

While that's a relatively honest statement, I'll add in that I don't think the TS units have the same top end power as the centri-powered cars, they seem to have great low end power, but from what I've seen in trap speeds and such, it's like they lose it up top? I think I remember ESS claiming their ASA kit to run a low 13 with like a 108 or 109 trap speed? I haven't seen a TS unit trap that high yet... The TS3 will, but that's for obvious reasons.

I think there just haven't been a lot of TS owners going to the drag strip. A roots gives up a bit on the top end but the TS really doesn't. I know mine pulls hard all the way to red line. Even if a centri does have a marginal top end advantage, the TS still has the most useful power band for a daily driver - by far.

Here are Stuart's results with his TS2+ in 94 deg heat and humidity:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6719555

Sub-optimal conditions and a novice drag racer mean the car is likely capable of even better numbers.

[Activ3]

I think there just haven't been a lot of TS owners going to the drag strip. A roots gives up a bit on the top end but the TS really doesn't. I know mine pulls hard all the way to red line. Even if a centri does have a marginal top end advantage, the TS still has the most useful power band for a daily driver - by far.

Here are Stuart's results with his TS2+ in 94 deg heat and humidity:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6719555

Sub-optimal conditions and a novice drag racer mean the car is likely capable of even better numbers.

Exactly my point. Stuart seems to be a capable driver (1.8X 60' is pretty damn good IMO), but he's trapping only 103 with the TS2+? That's lower than a stock m3, but he puts out more HP? He seems to be rocketing off the line and his 1/8th mile is pretty quick, but for some reason the trap speed at the end of the 1/4 is only 103.

But you are right, the TS will offer more boost at a lower rpm for those who want low end power when daily driving, but IMO I'd rather have that mean top end pull, and better mpg down low.

Seems like it always boils down to the "different strokes for different folks" kind of deal :rofl:

[Asbjorn@ESS]

Actually our TS kits beats our older Vortech and ASA based kits all the way to redline given the same amount of boost. The torque advantage in the bottom and mid range is huge. It is possible to run significantly faster than 103MPH in a properly set up TS2+ 330. The TS2+ will easily outrun a E46 M3 in straight line acceleration.

[TxZHP04]

Different strokes indeed.

Funny, I looked back over Stuart's thread and saw that he was capable of 108 traps. You looked at it and only saw his 103 traps. :) To me, in those weather conditions, the difference in trap speeds across his runs is more a function of heat soak than capability.

Comparing strip performance is a bit like comparing dynos though, it's rarely apples to apples and is really only valid when the cars are in adjacent lanes at the same time.

[//ModMaster]

being limited to stage is no big deal. i just want a reliable kit. has anybody heard any good/bad thing about the VF kits. also is there anything else i should upgrade with one of these kits (clutch,internals,etc.)

I chose VF cus i wanted the power 2 be delivered gradually ( my car is auto ). the quality of the parts is excellent , everything fits except the air box they supply to cover the K&N filter which may cus idle problems . the engine bay will look great also. the drivabality of the car is very good , feels like stock untill u gun it .
but if u go with the VF kit , be ready to hear the worst chattering noise at idle , when ur at a stoplight ppl will point at u and tell u that something is wrong with ur engine and that some belt is about to snap , the sound of the Vortech unit is very annoying at idle , u will lose that BMW purr u love , but when the car is moving the sound is beautiful .
I removed the s/c cus i heard a little "boom" comin from the tranny and im not ready financially to replace the transmission now ..i also had idle problems that i couldnt confirm the reason 4 'em . i already miss the power , ill probably put it back when i put some money away .
Bottom line i recommend this kit if u dont care about the Vortech noise ( some ppl actually like that noise ) and u should install it at a professional shop where they know wat they r doing ( preferably at VF ) . U will be happy with the power thats 4 sure . Mine is auto and i put 8 bus lenghts on a manual E46 325i to 100mph . 540iA was a piece of cake too . Good luck .

[Activ3]

Different strokes indeed.

Funny, I looked back over Stuart's thread and saw that he was capable of 108 traps. You looked at it and only saw his 103 traps. :) To me, in those weather conditions, the difference in trap speeds across his runs is more a function of heat soak than capability.

Comparing strip performance is a bit like comparing dynos though, it's rarely apples to apples and is really only valid when the cars are in adjacent lanes at the same time.

Yeah I guess I only looked at his slips :banghead:

:werd: on the comparisons, but as far as heat soak, I'd assume that his best runs would've been before the motor got heat soaked as opposed to afterwards with a lower trap :dunno: A difference of 5mph is a big difference for our cars...

[bigjae1976]

I have the AA equivalent of a TS2+ and I trapped 105mph. But that was the first time I've ever been on a drag strip and I definitely would not consider myself a skilled driver.

I like the TS kit for DD because you don't have to shift as much. You always have plenty of torque on hand. I actually get better gas mileage as long as I don't go over 3k rpm.

When I was doing some comparison shopping, the HP curves between the CF based kits were very similar. The biggest difference was the torque between 2.5k - 4k rpms...IIRC, the TS kits have a 40lb/ft advantage.

[wasp9166]

it says for auto on the ts2 boost is lowered to 7 psi.................so would this make it the same as the ts1? or are there other benefits? http://www.esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=101&subcat2=114&id=


also, what trans software is req? just the basic ess step tranny soft?

[brycerichert]

Regarding VF... At the track I'm always revving out to the end anyways so it made sense to me to have the power up there. It works out well. As far as no boost below 3, this is fine because, again, at the track, the car is never below 3500 and when daily driving, the mpg is great becuse I always shift before 3500 (as does the wife). So great power at the track and great mpg for daiy driving. In fact, I just drove down to Portland this evening and I can't tell you my mpg because you wouldn't believe that a sc'd car could get it.

If I were to do it again I'd try a different company so I could have a comparison. I don't really have any base to compare to unfortunatelyl, VF is all I know.

It seems the "VF sound" is a lot less than the first month... and with the hood closed, and the new exhaust, it's better.

[//ModMaster]

It seems the "VF sound" is a lot less than the first month... and with the hood closed, and the new exhaust, it's better.

U mean the sound got quieter with time ? i assumed it will only get worse . and how did the exhaust affect it ? is it cus the sound is louder so it drowns out the sound from the engine ?

[VillanovaGrad]

trade in for M3 - 300whp and its cheaper

[wasp9166]

it says for auto on the ts2 boost is lowered to 7 psi.................so would this make it the same as the ts1? or are there other benefits? http://www.esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=101&subcat2=114&id=


also, what trans software is req? just the basic ess step tranny soft?

bueller?

[phrozen06]

how are the VF kits? thats the one i was leaning towards. if i were to get a ess kit i would go with the TS1.

JLevi had a VF Kit on his 328ci and it was a test mule. He had no problems the 3 years he had his.

TS1 would be an excellent choice (Has V8 Characteristics). I'm leaning towards that kit myself someday.

[brycerichert]

U mean the sound got quieter with time ? i assumed it will only get worse . and how did the exhaust affect it ? is it cus the sound is louder so it drowns out the sound from the engine ?


Not scientific, but it seems to have quieted down. Maybe because I just got used to it? Maybe the exhaust covers it up? I don't know.. .the Remus exhaust isn't that loud at all. Wish I had some good hard facts for you.

[brycerichert]

trade in for M3 - 300whp and its cheaper


In my particular situation, I did the math. I had already put in a TCKline coilover system in, the camber plates, bushings, sway bars... and it was pretty formidable at the track.

To "trade in" for an M3 I factored in I'd have to put lot's of cash into the suspension again (almost as much as the sc), mods would surely follow as that is natural. Everything track related is more expensive and all general maintenance is more expensive. Just R compounds alone would cost double from where I'm at now on my 328.

If someone won't do suspension work on the car, it's possible it would be a wash if they aren't tracking it. But with similar power/weight ratios AFTER the sc install.... the #'s just weren't working out.

Plus, I've got a total sleeper that embarrases some people. The sleeper factor, in my mind, is easily worth a few more grand than having the M on the back of the car.

[wasp9166]

it says for auto on the ts2 boost is lowered to 7 psi.................so would this make it the same as the ts1? or are there other benefits? http://www.esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=101&subcat2=114&id=


also, what trans software is req? just the basic ess step tranny soft?
bueller?

[TxZHP04]

it says for auto on the ts2 boost is lowered to 7 psi.................so would this make it the same as the ts1? or are there other benefits? http://www.esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=101&subcat2=114&id=

Well, let's see here. The TS2 is simply a TS1 with an intercooler and smaller pulley, except for the autos which still get the 7 psi pulley. This means a TS2 for an auto is a TS1 with an intercooler.

also, what trans software is req? just the basic ess step tranny soft?

Yes, that's all there is.

[wasp9166]

sooooooo why pay more for the ts2? is there a benefit to the intercooler with the same pulley?

[TxZHP04]

sooooooo why pay more for the ts2? is there a benefit to the intercooler with the same pulley?

It'll provide more consistent power delivery in warmer weather with more resistance to heat soak. You'd have to ask ESS but I would imagine it would also allow them to tune a bit more aggressively even though the boost level might be the same. Is it worth the roughly $2k cost? You'll have to make that decision on your own.

[wasp9166]

well that would depend on how much more hp were talking with same boost.................

[TxZHP04]

I wouldn't expect peak numbers to change too much as you're ultimately limited by how much torque your auto can safely support.

An intercooler helps manage heat, that's all, plain and simple. It will allow you to more consistently produce the peak power that 7 psi is capable of producing. Without it, when the engine gets hot such as in warmer weather, it's going to have to start pulling timing to keep things safe. This is going to impact power levels under those conditions. No car is going to make the same numbers under all operating and ambient conditions. What the intercooler does is expand the envelope of conditions that allow you to make max power.

If you can afford the TS2, I think it's a more robust package. If you can't, just get the TS1 and call it a day. Either way, you're not going to be able to justify the decision based on peak dyno numbers.

[wasp9166]

i understand................one more question, there is a peak amount of tq the step can handle, i forget now................how close does the 7 psi bring you to that............and...............say you wanted to add cams down the road to this kit, is that something you can do with a step?

[TxZHP04]

i understand................one more question, there is a peak amount of tq the step can handle, i forget now................how close does the 7 psi bring you to that............and...............say you wanted to add cams down the road to this kit, is that something you can do with a step?

That's a question for ESS as I don't know much about the limits of the auto transmission. If I had to guess though, cams would probably not be worth the expense with an auto.

[wasp9166]

guess ill wait for someone to chime in

[TxZHP04]

ESS is in and out, so there's no telling when or if they'll see your post. If you really want an answer call or email them directly. Contact info is on their web site.

[//ModMaster]

i understand................one more question, there is a peak amount of tq the step can handle, i forget now................how close does the 7 psi bring you to that............and...............say you wanted to add cams down the road to this kit, is that something you can do with a step?

Most automatic 330's have ZF transmissions (5hp19) with A5S 325Z code which means : Automatic 5 speed with a limit of 325nm (240lbs) of torque . So even the least powerful s/c kit u can find on the market already pushes the tranny to the limit thats why if u decide to s/c an auto 330 u need to go with a stage 1 kit with the lowest PSI and no other mods and pray ur tranny wont explode !

[wasp9166]

i have the gm tranny, a5s390r................whats that rated?

[HighBoostin330]

i understand................one more question, there is a peak amount of tq the step can handle, i forget now................how close does the 7 psi bring you to that............and...............say you wanted to add cams down the road to this kit, is that something you can do with a step?

There is a reason that ESS limited the boost to 7PSI and that is for the safety of your steptronic transmission. It is not the when the full power kicks on that kills parts. It is the high revs and high speeds that kills parts because of the load from the street.

Adding cams to the TS for a steptronic is not recommended since you are limited to the 7PSI. It was even AJ that said he would recommend a steptronic owner the TS1 since they could not take advantage of the TS2's added boost. So it would be even more ridiculous to add cams since you cannot take advantage of the power gains. The benefit of the TS2 would be the cooling cores. If you do repeated runs, the cooling cores will help you against decreased power due to heat soak.

[wasp9166]

ill never track it, gonna be for around town fun

[MachRc]

just go all the way and get those cthirty something kits from AA and hopefully you can get it with an intercooler and smaller 8 psi pulley.

the rotrex like most CF blowers will make peak psi at 7k or whatever the kit maker's redline(ask) so anything below 6k will be right around what you would max out for your steptronic..with a 8psi pulley im sure youd be making about 4psi at 6k..i have a 10psi pulley and make a good 4psi at wot in about anygear over 3k but the point is if it blows up, it would be a greeat time to switch anyways and still you have a blower made for the new switch yamean..
i just feel lucky to have the last few ESS ASA kits im sure you can source out the technik ones but thats for another thread.

vf is avail also

[bigjae1976]

just go all the way and get those cthirty something kits from AA and hopefully you can get it with an intercooler and smaller 8 psi pulley.

the rotrex like most CF blowers will make peak psi at 7k or whatever the kit maker's redline(ask) so anything below 6k will be right around what you would max out for your steptronic..with a 8psi pulley im sure youd be making about 4psi at 6k..i have a 10psi pulley and make a good 4psi at wot in about anygear over 3k but the point is if it blows up, it would be a greeat time to switch anyways and still you have a blower made for the new switch yamean..
i just feel lucky to have the last few ESS ASA kits im sure you can source out the technik ones but thats for another thread.

vf is avail also

But he'll run into the same problem...the slushbox won't be able to handle the power.

[//ModMaster]

i have the gm tranny, a5s390r................whats that rated?


~ 280lbs , it handles more torque than the ZF (at least on paper) .