Brian Elliot's Stage 2.5 #'s using Speed Based Boost Control

[HPF Chris]

Below are dyno graphs of 4th gear dyno pulls in Brian's HPF Stage 2.5 M3 (w/speed based boost control). These graphs show what happens on a very high power car that delivers power in such a way that allows traction to be maintained at all times. Full power is only achieved when going in excess of 96mph. Until then power is ramped up at a rate that allows the driver to literally floor it in any gear at any time and maintain traction.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/m3turbokit/belliot/HPFStage2-5SAE-SBC-MPH.gif

On this graph you can really see the way power is ramped up to match road conditions. This reduces low end torque which minimizes wheels spin but allows more power to be applied to the road when the tires are ready to handle it.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/m3turbokit/belliot/HPFStage2-5SAE-SBC-rpm.gif

In contrast, here is Scott's stage 2.5 where full power is given as soon as possible. Here you can see a lot more torque is given than the tires can handle. Scott must moderate power with the gas pedal going through the lower gears.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/m3turbokit/dynos/HPFStage2-5SAE-mph.gif

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/m3turbokit/dynos/HPFStage2-5SAE-rpm.gif


Take care,
Chris.

[gasser]

Nice visualization of how the boost/traction control work. But one really big question, when I turn off the boost/traction control, I have the same curve as Scott?

[RACEMX-M3]

Great stuff Chris. I'm looking forward to hearing Brian's impressions after he gets to drive his car.

[HPFMTRE]

your driving me crazy! i cant wait to have mine back!

[pastE36prsntE46]

your driving me crazy! i cant wait to have mine back!


Patience, I have had to wait FOREVER, will be Apirl soon enough :pimpin:

[HPF Chris]

Nice visualization of how the boost/traction control work. But one really big question, when I turn off the boost/traction control, I have the same curve as Scott?

You will have the same curve as Scott in 5th and 6th. You will understand completely when you drive it. It will apply max power to the road. If you want us to undo speed based boost control then you will be relying solely on traction control which will pull out power "after" the tires slip. Once this occurs, the engine has to pull back way more power to get the tires to grip again. Your car is setup to pull out power "before" the tires slip so you maintain maximum traction all the time. Don't worry about the dyno graphs. You will completely understand when you drive it. :)

Chris.

[gasser]

Ok. But, I would like the option of turning off the boost control if I want to "play around", make sense? This sounds like it will limit the power all the time in 1-4th gear. From JP's video of the boost/traction control setup, it looked like when the traction control was turned off, the car got full power/boost. Am I missing something/am I wrong?

[HPF Chris]

Ok. But, I would like the option of turning off the boost control if I want to "play around", make sense? This sounds like it will limit the power all the time in 1-4th gear. From JP's video of the boost/traction control setup, it looked like when the traction control was turned off, the car got full power/boost. Am I missing something/am I wrong?

Speed based boost control is on all the time. We haven't designed a switch to turn that off. I will talk to jp about this. Maybe traction control off should mean speed based boost control off. Is that what you want?

Chris.

[gasser]

Speed based boost control is on all the time. We haven't designed a switch to turn that off. I will talk to jp about this. Maybe traction control off should mean speed based boost control off. Is that what you want?

Chris.

YUP. I really like the way the two work together and it is gonna be a monster on the street and track with this setup. But, it would be nice to turn them off together just to "play" around, if the need arises....:lmao:

[HPF Chris]

YUP. I really like the way the two work together and it is gonna be a monster on the street and track with this setup. But, it would be nice to turn them off together just to "play" around, if the need arises....:lmao:

Just say it. You want to be able to smoke the sh$$ out of the tires!

[S54PWR]

I think what he wants to do is to setup and fool the competition making them think he can't get traction by turning it off, then after they head out the run he turns it on and decimates them while they spin all day and he puts on buslengths. ;)

[gasser]

I think what he wants to do is to setup and fool the competition making them think he can't get traction by turning it off, then after they head out the run he turns it on and decimates them while they spin all day and he puts on buslengths. ;)

Yup, very good assessment of the situation. :woot: :4ngie:

[RACEMX-M3]

If I add this option on my car I would definitely want to be able to turn it off completely. I can see the value of the SBBC for road courses, 1/4 mile or if you just like to stand on the throttle in lower gears. As it is now I never floor my car in 1st or 2nd (ever) unless dsc is on - and even then I don't. I seem to get full traction at around 70 - 80 with pump and methanol. I haven't driven in race/meth yet. I'll report back on that experience tomorrow. :)

[S54PWR]

Yup, very good assessment of the situation. :woot: :4ngie:

:thumbsup:

[HPF JP]

just to "play" around

Haha! You seriously have NO idea what you are about to experience. Even with speed based boost control, I have your car setup so if Traction Control is turned OFF, you WILL wrap yourself around a telephone pole. Like Scott said, once this thing has gone sideways on you a couple of times with the wheels STRAIGHT, you'll think twice about turning it OFF.

With your 5 different traction control settings and 4 selectable maps, there is MORE than enough to play around with. Your car is like jumping into an SR-71 Blackbird with all of these controls, its nuts! It's like:

Seat Belt?...check
Methanol in Alcohol Tank?...check
110 Octane in Main Tank?...check
Race Gas Switch ON?...check
Key ON?...check
DSC OFF?...check
Sport Button ON?...check
Alcohol Switch ON?...check
TC Module set to Race?...check
Barf Bag?...check

[HPFMTRE]

Haha! You seriously have NO idea what you are about to experience. Even with speed based boost control, I have your car setup so if Traction Control is turned OFF, you WILL wrap yourself around a telephone pole. Like Scott said, once this thing has gone sideways on you a couple of times with the wheels STRAIGHT, you'll think twice about turning it OFF.

With your 5 different traction control settings and 4 selectable maps, there is MORE than enough to play around with. Your car is like jumping into an SR-71 Blackbird with all of these controls, its nuts! It's like:

Seat Belt?...check
Methanol in Alcohol Tank?...check
110 Octane in Main Tank?...check
Race Gas Switch ON?...check
Key ON?...check
DSC OFF?...check
Sport Button ON?...check
Alcohol Switch ON?...check
TC Module set to Race?...check
Barf Bag?...check

JP=:bow:

[gasser]

Haha! You seriously have NO idea what you are about to experience. Even with speed based boost control, I have your car setup so if Traction Control is turned OFF, you WILL wrap yourself around a telephone pole. Like Scott said, once this thing has gone sideways on you a couple of times with the wheels STRAIGHT, you'll think twice about turning it OFF.

With your 5 different traction control settings and 4 selectable maps, there is MORE than enough to play around with. Your car is like jumping into an SR-71 Blackbird with all of these controls, its nuts! It's like:

Seat Belt?...check
Methanol in Alcohol Tank?...check
110 Octane in Main Tank?...check
Race Gas Switch ON?...check
Key ON?...check
DSC OFF?...check
Sport Button ON?...check
Alcohol Switch ON?...check
TC Module set to Race?...check
Barf Bag?...check

I just want to be able to have full boost available in every gear so when I go to the drag strip, I can get a full power 1/4 mile pass out of it. Traction won't be that much of an issue with a good set of 17" DR's or a set of slicks :yikes: I've had high HP rear wheel drive cars, so there isn't a need for a driver mod. :lmao:

Actually JP, I would just like to know what each setting does for me. Does the race setting have a faster boost ramp up, say full boost at 50/60mph? I don't really understand what each setting will give me for power.

[Evil Twin Rob]

Haha! You seriously have NO idea what you are about to experience. Even with speed based boost control, I have your car setup so if Traction Control is turned OFF, you WILL wrap yourself around a telephone pole. Like Scott said, once this thing has gone sideways on you a couple of times with the wheels STRAIGHT, you'll think twice about turning it OFF.

With your 5 different traction control settings and 4 selectable maps, there is MORE than enough to play around with. Your car is like jumping into an SR-71 Blackbird with all of these controls, its nuts! It's like:

Seat Belt?...check
Methanol in Alcohol Tank?...check
110 Octane in Main Tank?...check
Race Gas Switch ON?...check
Key ON?...check
DSC OFF?...check
Sport Button ON?...check
Alcohol Switch ON?...check
TC Module set to Race?...check
Barf Bag?...check

Hi JP! As you may have already figured out, I actually enjoy a little 60 mph sideways action on occasion.:4ngie: The boost control would be nice to have, but I would definitely want the option to disable it.

[frankieb96]

so this can be fully disengageable, correct? if BMW TC is off and HPF TC is off, you're pretty much on your own right?

[RACEMX-M3]

so this can be fully disengageable, correct? if BMW TC is off and HPF TC is off, you're pretty much on your own right?

Pretty much. I was driving my car tonight with DSC ON and nailed the throttle in 3rd gear and my car went about 3 or 4 feet sideways before the DSC kicked in. Be safe. :)

[SPDu4ea]

5.99??

[S54PWR]

YUP. I really like the way the two work together and it is gonna be a monster on the street and track with this setup. But, it would be nice to turn them off together just to "play" around, if the need arises....:lmao:

Quick questions, which exhaust are you running on your car?, it sounded mean in the parking lot. Also I just wanted to get this cleared up, the HPF Traction Control is the Speed Based Boost Control right? It modulates the rampup of boost and power allowing the maximum amount of traction in all gears, right? Just like how you questioned it, if it's off on the HPF traction control module and DSC is off does that mean the car is back to full power levels that will make your passenger cringe once you go sideways? ;) I'm guessing once its off on the HPF module/controller you'll go sideways since DSC takes power out after you spin which means whether its on or off you'll be spinning as Scott stated with it On.

[HPF JP]

Included in the HPF Traction Control System, is a 5 selectable switch module and wiring harness which retards, and in extreme conditions, cuts ignition timing when wheel spin is detected. This module can be turned OFF.

Also included is an updated HPF EMS reflash which comes with an optimized wastegate map where boost pressure is now dependant on vehicle speed. Note: This speed based boost control is not conservative and still allows plenty of tire slip. To get perfect traction, the module must be turned ON to a desired setting which will be specific to the tire and current track conditions.

Hope this helps,
JP

[gasser]

Quick questions, which exhaust are you running on your car?, it sounded mean in the parking lot.

I am running the Rogue El Diablo Track edition. I like the way it sounded when I was N/A, but now it sounds sooooooo much better. :bow:

[S54PWR]

Included in the HPF Traction Control System, is a 5 selectable switch module and wiring harness which retards, and in extreme conditions, cuts ignition timing when wheel spin is detected. This module can be turned OFF.

Also included is an updated HPF EMS reflash which comes with an optimized wastegate map where boost pressure is now dependant on vehicle speed. Note: This speed based boost control is not conservative and still allows plenty of tire slip. To get perfect traction, the module must be turned ON to a desired setting which will be specific to the tire and current track conditions.

Hope this helps,
JP

Thanks for the clearup JP :bow, so you can't have one with out the other as getting the HPF TC system means SBBC inside, which makes perfect sense since the SBBC is what correlates the HPF TC system in controlling power, its nice to confirm what I was asking, thanks. With that said, turning the HPF TC still means SBBC is on correct since the SBBC is in the AEM EMS.

[S54PWR]

I am running the Rogue El Diablo Track edition. I like the way it sounded when I was N/A, but now it sounds sooooooo much better. :bow:

Great! and we know its allowing you to make power(which the dyno proved) since it has 60mm piping, I guess I'll never see anyone with a Milltek (sounds deep on NA car but boasts 60mm piping as well) on a HPF/FI car. :rofl: HPF replaced your section 1 with theirs and section 2 is stock/oem?

[gasser]

Great! and we know its allowing you to make power(which the dyno proved) since it has 60mm piping, I guess I'll never see anyone with a Milltek (sounds deep on NA car but boasts 60mm piping as well) on a HPF/FI car. :rofl: HPF replaced your section 1 which theirs and section 2 is stock/oem?

Yup.

[S54PWR]

Yup.

What's the piping of their section 1/Downpipe?

[gasser]

What's the piping of their section 1/Downpipe?

For stage 1-2.5, I think it is 3 inch. Stage 3/4 expand out to 4 inch.

[S54PWR]

For stage 1-2.5, I think it is 3 inch. Stage 3/4 expand out to 4 inch.

Ahh I see and it narrows down or runs an adapter to fit to the stock Section 2 60mm piping.

[RACEMX-M3]

5.99??

We'll see, that would be awesome. My vbox is loaned out and I need to fill my tank with race fuel. It will probably be next weekend before I have time to get new runs. :)

[frankieb96]

Included in the HPF Traction Control System, is a 5 selectable switch module and wiring harness which retards, and in extreme conditions, cuts ignition timing when wheel spin is detected. This module can be turned OFF.

Also included is an updated HPF EMS reflash which comes with an optimized wastegate map where boost pressure is now dependant on vehicle speed. Note: This speed based boost control is not conservative and still allows plenty of tire slip. To get perfect traction, the module must be turned ON to a desired setting which will be specific to the tire and current track conditions.

Hope this helps,
JP

the EMS reflash is included with the traction control? or included as standard equipment?

[Evil Twin Rob]

Included in the HPF Traction Control System, is a 5 selectable switch module and wiring harness which retards, and in extreme conditions, cuts ignition timing when wheel spin is detected. This module can be turned OFF.

Also included is an updated HPF EMS reflash which comes with an optimized wastegate map where boost pressure is now dependant on vehicle speed. Note: This speed based boost control is not conservative and still allows plenty of tire slip. To get perfect traction, the module must be turned ON to a desired setting which will be specific to the tire and current track conditions.

Hope this helps,
JP

That's B!tchen!

[HPF JP]

This video demonstrates how a HPF Stage III benefits from this upgrade. This was in my early development stages, but I believe this would be the TC Module "Sport" mode equivalent which still allows a moderate amount of slip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnd9280_bcY

[Matt Q]

Oh man Oh man Oh man

And I gotta add.. I was one of the doubters about your body kit.. and yet now as I see the latest offerings of ACS and I take the intense power of these new stages and the traction control..... suddenly that bad boy body kit is making sense and I'm LOVING IT!!