aftermarket hu?

[wasp9166]

ive read thru pages and pages, some dated, so im gonna ask and if i get flamed its cool....................ive allready replaced all the stock speakers, yeah i know the ohms are slightly off , but im not rockefeller..........i used mb quart mid woofers front and rear deck, polk db1000 tweeters and bsw mid ranges front and back. this is a hk system btw.

im pretty sure the crossovers are built into the factory amp, im not willing to get into swapping out the amp and using an external crossover, its sounds ok as is................if there is an amp on the market that would drop in , id be all for it.............i looked on bsw site and saw nothing, maybe they are working on this? would be nice

sooooooooo, my question is, if i were to replace the stock hu, would i get any gain out of the higher aftermarket head units power? or would the factory amp kill it....................id assume having more options as far as treble , midrange etc may help?

if so, what would you recommend? i believe if i were to do this id need a double din bezel? read about this a while ago, and i would lose the space under the stock hu? would also like to get as close as possible to stock lighting

[danielkspencer]

Do you have the nav? You'd have to use an interface like a PAC OEM 2 in order to use an aftermarket deck and still use your factory amp. The signal from an aftermarket deck must be changed to a balanced differential signal before sending it to the factory amp. You can also use the same interface (probably not the best word to describe it, but It's late) to use your factory deck and use an aftermarket amp. But if you have the Nav you're in for a job if you are going to replace it. It's not a simple install for a beginner at all. If you don't have the nav then that's a different story.

To answer your question though. You're not going to get much good out of an aftermarket deck alone. The crossovers are in the factory amp and if you use it you'll get about the same sound quality. Best thing is to keep the deck and do an aftermarket amp. The H/K setup sucks all the way around.

I have the Nav and If it wasn't so much trouble and money I'd do everything aftermarket from the ground up.

[wasp9166]

nope, no nav................

[danielkspencer]

yeah, ditch it. It may not make much difference in the sound but its a good starting point. You can build on it in the future. Get a pretty good one like a Pioneer. Something with function. That way when you ditch the factory amp you'll have more control and better sound quality.

[wasp9166]

i know i need one with a remote option in back for the steering wheel controls..................i have a pioneer house receiver, the car ones are good as well? why does everyone ive read seem to go for alpine? i see the centering plates at eas, seem pretty nice

[wasp9166]

after further research , it seems the stock hu is sufficient, could always change later, im going to attack the bottleneck which is the amp....................i know it needs diff inputs to make it easy, what im confused on is the channels, there are 6 sets of speakers

front-tweeters, mid woofers, midranges

back door-midranges

back shelf-mid woofers
back shelf- crappy hk subs

now is that 4 channels? tweeters, midranges, mid woofers, subs? do both sets of midranges and mid woofers get the same freq signal?

or is it 6 channels?

[danielkspencer]

You really need to replace both the H/U and the amp to get good sound. Don't you have three speakers in each front door??? I have tweets, and then two other speakers in each front door. Then I have them in the back doors and the rear deck.

[wasp9166]

yeah , thats 6 channels....................im gonna do amp first..........from what i can gather i need a 6 channel amp, i can only find one on crutch and 2 on sonic, what, are they hard to come by? anyhow, the ones i find lump channels together on the crossovers, 1 + 2, 3 + 4, 5 + 6...............this wont work, yeah i have 2 mid woofers, which could be one channel, 2 mid ranges, but then your left with tweeters and subs......................i am installing a basslink, i was thinking of keeping the hk sub anyhow just cuz they are there, or should i remove the hk subs and make the tweeters a channel....................so based on what ive found, i would need a 6 channel amp without crossovers and an external 6 channel cross?....................bmw makes this such a pia, ive done installs in other cars, this seems to be a pia to figure out...............and, with all the people on these forums, why does it seem daniel and 98mustang are the only ones letting you pick their brains? where bsw? id buy an amp from them if they made one, hint hint

[wasp9166]

maybe im being a dope but.....................

channel 1- front tweeters

channel 2- front and rear mid ranges ?

channel 3 - front and rear mid woofers ?

channel 4- 6x9 hk subs......................................can you hook 2 pairs of speakers up to one channel? i dont think you can


im confused as to whether you need a 4 or 6 channel amp, then i see this http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=114472


lol, he usd a 5 channel amp.....................he says 1-4 for front speakers and channel 5 for subs, but, there are 6 pairs of speakers, so im stumped

[wasp9166]

im starting to think this isnt doable, ive been reading, apparantely, each speaker is a channel? i thought each pair was,that would mean youd need a 12 channel amp,lol.................or 2 6s'

[jose325i]

The amp is simple to set up. I have a 5-channel Alpine PDX-5 powering my speakers. Heres how you would set it up.

Tap into the four full-range signal wires that goes from the head-unit to the amplifier using this useful post:
You've got most of it correct, but you didn't mention the front stereo signals so I'm listing them and giving you some photos to help you identify a few cables.

The easiest place to make you connections is at the factory amplifier on the left side of your trunk. The factory amplifier plug is actually comprised of two individual plugs. Remove the black plastic shroud from around the plug, and you'll see that there are now two separate plugs, one black, and the other grey. The remote turn on wire is located in Pin #10 in the grey connector.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/BavSound/E46_amp_plug_removal.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/BavSound/IMG_0471.jpg
You can tap the following wires for full range audio, they'll also be in the factory amp harness.
-Blue w/Red stripe (FR+) and Brown w/Orange stripe (FR-)
-Yellow w/Red stripe (FL+) and Brown w/Orange stripe (FL-)
-Blue w/Black stripe (RR+) and Brown w/Orange stripe (RR-)
-Yellow w/Black stripe (RL+) and Brown w/Orange stripe (RL-)
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/BavSound/IMG_0446.jpg

I hope this helps and feel free to contact me if you have any other questions.

Amplifier Outputs:
Since you originally bought speakers intending to not use an amplifier, you do not have the necessary passive crossovers needed to connect all your speakers. Heres what you need:

1 Pair of 3-way crossovers for front doors (1 per side)

1 Pair of 2-way crossovers for rear speakers (1 per side)

After looking at the price of the crossovers, you will find that it is better to buy 2 sets of 2-way components that come with the necessary crossovers and sell your current setup to someone that doesn't want an amplifier. I suggest you check out http://www.woofersetc.com However, if your speakers came with 2-way passive crossovers, disregard the last statement and use them to distribute the power to the midbass and tweeters, leaving the BSW mids being powered by the stock amp.


Channel 1: To a 3-way crossover, to which the 3 speakers in front drivers side door is connected.

Channel 2: To a 3-way crossover, to which the 3 speakers in front passengers side door is connected.

Channel 3: To a 2-way crossover to which drivers side rear deck midbass+tweeter in rear door (driver side) is connected.

Channel 4: To a 2-way crossover to which passenger side rear deck midbass+tweeter in rear door (passenger side) is connected.

[danielkspencer]

That's exactly the way I spliced in for my setup too, Wasp. It's the only way to do it right dude. Sorry, I've been slacking lately. I just completely finished my car out. DIY'd my pillars, aux input, Mega Detail, good times.

[danielkspencer]

Only thing I would caution against, or at least bring up for consideration is when Jose said to potentially use the stock amp for the BSW speakers. I have heard bad reviews of this. The stock amp is crossovered as we all know and it limits the speakers output because of it. Even though they are "designed" for that amp. F that. If you are going to go through all the trouble to get a different sound than the stock, ditch the whole thing dude. Go with the components like he said and that will give you the crossovers with them and all will be well. Buy you a PAC OEM 2 to convert your signal and it will give you 2 sets of RCA outputs to go to your amps. or you amp and basslink. I gave like $20 for mine new.

[jose325i]

You will also eventually want to add a subwoofer to take care of the lower frequencies. It allows you to take stress off of your midranges by using the crossover in your amp and setting it to not send the lower bass frequencies to them, resulting in better performance. You will be able to turn it up louder without hitting the distortion point. If trunk space is not a problem, you can get a sealed box with a decent sub and you will be happy. However, check out this link...they make custom e46 subwoofer boxes that take up almost no space in the trunk at all. http://www.wickedcas.com/product.php?productid=105&cat=10&page=1 So if you would like to retain your trunk space, be prepared to spend 350 on the box.

I'm not sure what kind of taste in bass you have, but I highly recommend Image Dynamics IDQ or IDMAX subwoofers. They give incredible, detailed sound, while giving surprisingly good volume. They also do not require a huge box, so they would work well with the wickedcas enclosure.

[wasp9166]

ive got a good discussion going elsewhere, this is what im doing

install basslink- remove stock hk subs

4 channel amp with two 2 way crossovers

keep front tweeters and midwoofers, ditch midranges

keep back midranges and midwoofers (shelf)

[danielkspencer]

I still think you should have gone with one of my setups for the sub, lol. Be sure to PM me and let me know if the Basslink is loud enough for you. My system sounds great and all I had to do was the sub. Like Jose said. It lets you put the deck's bass at midpoint and then the sub takes over and lets more power go to the other speakers to make them louder and clearer. You're not pumping hardly any bass through them, thus more power for highs and mids and less distortion. Problem with the Basslink is that you're still probably going to have to crank your deck's bass level up to get enough bass, so it won't help with your highs and mids. That's why we tried to get you to get a much more powerful sub than the basslink. I'm pretty sure you're not going to be happy, but I wish you luck. I find that the more you do with these cars the deeper you get in and one thing leads to something else that you have to have to make the first thing work, etc. Not like putting a system in a Jeep or something. Hell, my E-Class had a SQ system in it that rocked an it was easier to instally the entire system in it than it is to just tap into the signal in a Bimmer. And it Pulled more a$$. lol jK I love my 330

[jose325i]

So what amplifier are you looking at? How much are you planning to spend on it? Heres my reccomendations:
I've had my Alpine PDX-5 for a year, and it is running loud and clear just like day 1. And, the PDX-5 utilises fan cooling instead of heatsinks, allowing you to install it upside-down on your rear deck safely.

Alpine PDX 100.4
http://www.woofersetc.com/p5479/PDX4100--Alpine-4-Ch-400-watt-Digital-Power--Amplifier.htm

Or, since its almost the same price with the option to let you upgrade your bass in case the basslink isn't enough:
http://www.woofersetc.com/p6395/PDX5--Alpine-5-Ch-600-Watt-Digital-Power-Amplifier-PDX5.htm

Here is a picture of my trunk with my old huge box. (see the amp? its upside-down on the rear deck, taking up no space at all!!) That is a perfect location because it allows easy access to the gains/crossovers on the front panel.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9276/dsc00604zy9.jpg

[wasp9166]

was trying to find an a/d/s p440 or jl e4300


100w rms is way too much for these little speakers no? the ones i have are rated 50w rms, mid woofers anyhow, the polk tweets are 45w rms..................i have no idea what the bsw midranges are, i think its a secret cuz i dont see it on their site anywhere

[Orion329]

Here is a picture of my trunk with my old huge box. (see the amp? its upside-down on the rear deck, taking up no space at all!!) That is a perfect location because it allows easy access to the gains/crossovers on the front panel.


hey jose325i, i don't mean to thread-jack, but what mounting points did you use for the amp install? i'm planning on a similar setup.

[wasp9166]

and btw, why couldnt i use a 3 way xover for the fronts and a 2 way for the backs and still utilize a 4 channel amp? problem im finding, my speakers are 4 ohm and most xovers i see are for 8ohm

[jose325i]

was trying to find an a/d/s p440 or jl e4300


100w rms is way too much for these little speakers no? the ones i have are rated 50w rms, mid woofers anyhow, the polk tweets are 45w rms..................i have no idea what the bsw midranges are, i think its a secret cuz i dont see it on their site anywhere

100w rms isn't too much...you can adjust the gains to match your speakers. The amp gives 100w rms with the gains all the way up. it puts less stress on the amp because it is turned down to match your current speakers. If you upgrade your speakers in the future, you will be able to take advantage of them without upgrading your amp. If you buy a 45w RMS amp, it will always be stressing out because it is maxing out.

hey jose325i, i don't mean to thread-jack, but what mounting points did you use for the amp install? i'm planning on a similar setup.

My audio shop screwed it into the metal at the top of the trunk.

and btw, why couldnt i use a 3 way xover for the fronts and a 2 way for the backs and still utilize a 4 channel amp? problem im finding, my speakers are 4 ohm and most xovers i see are for 8ohm

Yes, you could do that. But for the price, you might as well buy a set of components that come with xovers...look around for pricing. Example is CDT crossovers.

[Orion329]

you COULD use a 3-way crossover in the front, the only reason most people don't is that the replacement woofer/tweeter component systems (that come with their own crossovers) they put in seem to be more than adequate in filling in the range that the midwoofer originally filled. you'd be just fine using a woofer and tweeter only. i'm with jose325i on this one.

8-ohm speakers are more common for home theater setups, is it possible you're looking at 8-ohm crossovers for home theater application, rather than car component speaker crossovers?

check out parts-express.com, they have some 4-ohm crossovers if you're dying to use your aftermarket speakers currently installed.

thanks for the response jose325i.

[jose325i]

I found some CDT crossovers that are 3-way at a great price! just use the BSW as main tweeter, and the polks as image tweeter. This crossover will likely improve imaging and stage.
http://www.woofersetc.com/p7976/Satnet480OB--CDT-Audio-2-Way-Midrange-Tweeter-Crossovers-OPEN-BOX.htm

Then, buy satnet 400 for the rear, and you're all set!
http://www.woofersetc.com/p3481/Satnet-400--CDT-Audio--2-Way-Crossovers.htm\\

However, satnet 400 is a rip-off. spend a bit more and buy this for your rear, and you get a better crossover, as well as some great-sounding speakers that aren't a hassle to install (6.25" FTW):
http://www.woofersetc.com/p7444/CL625CV--CDT-Audio-625"-Convertible-Component-Coaxial-Speaker-System.htm

[wasp9166]

thanx for the searching jose, im being told by others that im wasting money cuz i have mis matched drivers......................maybe i dont understand but, if you amp what i have , how could it not sound better..................say i get 2 xovers for $120..................compare that to say , the cdt you posted, im spending $20 more, but i dont have to rip the car apart again.................would the sound really be that much better?


100w rms is the way to go you think huh? the amp would only be half pressed, makes sense i guess

[jose325i]

Your sound will obviously improve if you buy the cdt xovers and amp it. The fact that your speakers are mismatched could mean you are not getting the most out of your speakers depending on the quality of the speakers that you have. This is not likely to sound bad at all, though, as the CDT crossovers are known for seamlessly blending the midranges and tweeters' frequencies.

As far as ripping the car apart again, an amp install will require you to do so. I'm assuming your speakers are connected to the OEM amp, so you're going to have to run wiring to the doors. The crossovers will have to go in the front doors and under the rear deck. You will then have to connect your speakers to the crossovers. Since your car will already be with most of the speakers and wiring exposed, you might as well go ahead experiment with new speakers. Hook everything up with your current speakers, but before screwing the speakers/door panel back in, listen to it. Switch out the speakers. Decide which you like better, and go on from there.

I'm very impressed with my CDT CL-series 2-way components because they give music a very natural sound even at high volumes. They blow away my best friend's Polk db-series components, which sound harsh at those volumes. They took about a month to break in, during which they sounded a little harsh, but after that, they've sounded perfect. My only complaint is I wish they could give more bass. Perhaps if they were in a sealed install they could give more, :dunno:.

[Ben Z.]

As far as ripping the car apart again, an amp install will require you to do so. I'm assuming your speakers are connected to the OEM amp, so you're going to have to run wiring to the doors. The crossovers will have to go in the front doors and under the rear deck. You will then have to connect your speakers to the crossovers. Since your car will already be with most of the speakers and wiring exposed, you might as well go ahead experiment with new speakers. Hook everything up with your current speakers, but before screwing the speakers/door panel back in, listen to it. Switch out the speakers. Decide which you like better, and go on from there.



Why run wires to the speakers? Can't you just tap into the speaker output of the factory amp and get the same effect with much less effort?

Also from my extensive research (about to do a similar install on my car), it is not a good idea to put your crossovers inside the door; leave them in the trunk to protect them from the possible moisture build up.

All wiring can be done from the trunk thanks to the factory amp location. Just unplug the harness, tap the wires you need (HU output and amp output aka speaker input) and you're good to go. Correct me if I'm wrong..

[jose325i]

Why run wires to the speakers? Can't you just tap into the speaker output of the factory amp and get the same effect with much less effort?

Also from my extensive research (about to do a similar install on my car), it is not a good idea to put your crossovers inside the door; leave them in the trunk to protect them from the possible moisture build up.

All wiring can be done from the trunk thanks to the factory amp location. Just unplug the harness, tap the wires you need (HU output and amp output aka speaker input) and you're good to go. Correct me if I'm wrong..

I suppose that'll work as well. You could cut up your OEM wiring and attach it to the crossover in the trunk.

I doubt that the xovers will suffer damage from being in the doors. Mine have been in the doors for almost a year here in humid texas weather, and its fine. I think it would've messed up by now if installing in the doors was bad.

Pushing too many watts through the OEM wiring is just asking for trouble, though. So in some cases, running your own wires to the front is a safer and better option. And you don't have to modify the car's original wiring.

[wasp9166]

yeah, i planned on doing all connection and mounting in trunk, and all my speakers are rated 45-50w max rms.................why i thought id only get a 50w rms amp, that way i wouldnt be tempted to overdo it



thank you for the help jose, more than anyone else and ive talked to about 60 people..................so if those xovers you linked would indeed do what i want, what amp would you suggest? im really looking at a jl e4300 or the replacement to that, the a4300

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9365_JL+Audio+A4300.html


i like that it accepts diff inputs,and is rather inexpensive,but, why do they list the higher rms at 14v? how would this be acheived, arent most car systems 12v?

[325CI2004]

companies rate at 14.4v to make it look like a more powerful amp.

[wasp9166]

companies rate at 14.4v to make it look like a more powerful amp.

nice :rolleyes:


well, for another $45 i could get the g4500, which is 80rms , almost double the 45rms of the a4300................thats another option

[jose325i]

Make sure the Amp you buy is in stock...the a4300 is on backorder in your link...

[wasp9166]

Make sure the Amp you buy is in stock...the a4300 is on backorder in your link...

oh, i wouldnt get it there, was just posting the specs

[jose325i]

oh, i wouldnt get it there, was just posting the specs

sounds good:thumbsup:

[BmwAudio32]

Im running CDT Satnet 450 crossovers now with the BSW rainbow stage 1 woofer/tweeter. My crososvers are mounted to the sirius/cd changer/nav computer bracket in the trunk and all connections were made to the amp harness right there in the trunk. I'm pushing over 100 watts/channel through factory wiring with no probs. The Satnet's are excellent crossovers. BTW, it should be noted that JL used to only list thier 12 v RMS stats for thier amps, but choose to start listing the 14 v as well because this is the "industry standard". Note that JL's slash amps used to use a regulated power rail system such that output was the same at 12 or 14v, don't know if current gen ones still do this.

[wasp9166]

cool

[wasp9166]

well, ive decided im gonna hold off until i have the cash to do this right, the alpine pdx 4.1 is looking mighty nice, i found this for those that are interest when comparing alpine and jl model lines

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/411952

and cdt has the xovers ill need, thanx again jose for all your help......................hopefully others that come along will be helped as well by this

[jose325i]

make sure to check ebay for the amp you want as well. You can get a great deal with some patience and a little luck! Just make sure it comes with a warranty, as some sellers only give a 7-day return window without any other warranty.

Also check around for local Alpine dealers on alpine's website, as some will hook you up with a great deal. I got a crazy good deal on my pdx-5 from my local alpine dealer, and it came with a 2-year warranty because I bought from an authorized alpine dealer.

[wasp9166]

oh yeah, im a thrifty shopper ;)