My AA kit, engine condition 1 year on...

[Matt Q]

Hi All

The stresses of running a Charger and driving hard daily have shown on my engine.. I noticed a huge increase in oil use recently and a major loss of power.

Now this is NOT a reflection on the AA kit so if you are looking for a thread to blast them go look for another one. I have always been complimentary of their kit and I remain totally in awe of the performance and quality of this kit, however ANY car driven the way I drive EVERY day is gonna get hurt... more so if it's been charged... I don't car what you say.. it just WILL... but that's cool.. if you wanna play you gotta pay :)

This would explain my shoddy performance last weekend at the races - by the feeling of it my power must have been down at least 120kw as I was only JUST pulling on stock M3's and modded 335's!!!

The engine has been pulled apart and we have noticed that not only have I lost some compression on 2 cylinders, but the rings are starting to show wear on others too. You can clearly see where oil has pushed past the rings.

Zaid at Zeemax is currently pulling the engine apart and replacing rings and ceramic coating the pistons to handle more heat. It's gonna be a costly exercise but necessary to prepare the car for the addition of NOS and a more aggressive map later on. I would have prefered to wait before spending this money now (R20k ish) but at least it'll be done now and ready for the next set of upgrades... Zaid recons the car will be better than ever after these mods.. so looking forward to keeping you up to speed.

I will get some engine pics soon and keep this thread up to date with pics, progress and dyno readings.

What could have caused it?

1. For starters the car is now on 100,000km and has been driven HARD... it's gonna wear, especially if it's boosted

2. The meth kit was not running 100% for some time so we added a 2nd in-line lifter pump to get the right pressure at the nozzle. This may have caused minor detonation (even tho the DME would have pulled the timing back to avoid this) and may have added to the problem

3. previous owner.. who knows how the car was treated before I got it, whether it was warmed up properly etc etc..

4. local fuel... is crap...

Either way she'll be up and running better than ever soon and back on a healthier diet of race fuel and fresh rings :)

[Matt Q]

Ok.. just got back from the shop so here are the first lot of pics

The block unveiled

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0402.jpg

All is well in the cylinders - thank God!

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0405.jpg

Piston No1 is TOTALLED

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0406.jpg

Ring on Piston no 2 is also dead

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0407.jpg

And Number 5 is pretty sad too

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0410.jpg

Luckily all is still perfect up top

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0411.jpg

Zaid recons that knocking was definitely part of the cause, combined with the car being abused early in life (probably driven hard from cold etc) so the rings and pistons were already weakened... Add to this a supercharger and my driving style and you have a recipe for disaster.

So here's the way forward..

1. We will be replacing the stock AA water/alcohol setup with this HIGHER FLOW pure meth pump

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0414.jpg

2. We are upgrading the stock 3mm meth lines with this braided 6mm line which will allow us to T-off at the engine and run 2 meth points, (as per Saintly's advice). 1 in the normal AA spot and 1 before the charger to help cool the charge and break up the air particles pre-intercooler

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0416.jpg

Zaid is replacing the bolts on the pistons (not ARP yet, can't afford them) and the bearings if required.. the pistons are going off for ceramic coating and the whole bang shoot will then be put back together and re-tested.

We will also be replacing the o2 sensors if required.

Then we will be going for a more aggressive map from AA Oz courtesy of Saintly

Pics of new pistons and meth installation to follow next week

[pei330ci]

I know this will substantially add to the cost, but I highly recommend having your block bored and honed. Trying to get new rings to seal against an old "polished" cylinder wall will be very difficult.

[Matt Q]

Apparently not an issue with the M3... the cylinder walls are so hard that it doesn't wear much.. will look into it. Also the ceramic coating should marginaly increase the diameter of the pistons and therefore push the rings outwards... er I hope anyway

[SPDu4ea]

Good luck with the rebuild. I've always heard its a bad idea to have water/meth injection before the compressor (stationary liquid droplets hitting a high-speed rotating -- and lightweight -- blade).

[HPF Chris]

That's ring lang damage caused by a pre-ignition event. Once the ring land went, the heat from the loose ring land rubbing against the cylinder wall in between the rings caused the melted look on the edge. This occurred from bad gas or too much timing. No cylinder coatings are going to prevent that, and it wasn't due to the mileage on the engine. We have turbo'd cars with over 110,000 "miles" on the engine running significantly more power on the stock pistons.

Chris.

[A55A55IN]

That's ring lang damage caused by a pre-ignition event. Once the ring land went, the heat from the loose ring land rubbing against the cylinder wall in between the rings caused the melted look on the edge. This occurred from bad gas or too much timing. No cylinder coatings are going to prevent that, and it wasn't due to the mileage on the engine. We have turbo'd cars with over 110,000 "miles" on the engine running significantly more power on the stock pistons.

Chris.

So its a bad tune?

[HPF Chris]

So its a bad tune?

It could be due to a lot of things. The computer can only adapt to what it knows. The DME should pull out timing in the event knock occurs but under boost on a very hot day the computer may not be able to pull out enough. There's a million things that need to be perfect to run boost on a high compression motor. Spark plug heat range correct, knock sensors working and reporting correct information to the DME, premium gas, gas that isn't over 3 months old, intake air temp sensor sending the correct information to the DME, etc. etc.

Chris.

[HPF Chris]

Apparently not an issue with the M3... the cylinder walls are so hard that it doesn't wear much.. will look into it. Also the ceramic coating should marginaly increase the diameter of the pistons and therefore push the rings outwards... er I hope anyway

If you want a set of used pistons/rods, let me know. You will ABSOLUTELY need to hone the cylinders at minimum. Everytime we rebuild a motor, we over bore it as well. After 20,000 miles the cylinders begin to taper. They get the widest at the top and are the narrowest in the middle. You need to run it through high end CNC machines to remove this taper. It's not essential, but it's what we do with all of our built motors.

Chris.

[Estoril-E46]

Did you have the meth specific tune? You said the meth setup was not running 100%? What exactly was wrong with it?

Chris is right, the DME will only pull so much timing, and unfortunately even if it doesn't get to that limit with your meth not running right the ecu would be acting reactivly which isn't good either.

[Matt Q]

I had the water/alcohol setup and maps from AA accordingly... interesting about the heat and gas above as it was a VERY hot summer this year and our gas is pretty crappy over here...

ok will ask the shop to bore the cylinders then.. thanks for all the info, really very helpful guidance.

As to the water/alcohol problems... the pump which came with the kit lost pressure very quickly (about 6 weeks after installing it) and for some reason wasn't lifting the meth out of the tank... if you held a tank high above the pump (like 2 meters in the air) the mixture would travel down the line to the pump which would then pump perfectly to the fogger.. to remedy this we installed a small inline fuel pump between the pump and the tank.. the fogger now gives a nice strong mist and we check it regularly to make sure it's still spraying.

We are not going to try replacing it with pure meth to further reduce knocking and although more expensive.. I'm gonna to rather run on 100 octane (We are RON in SA so that's like running US 95 I guess) from now on as these repairs are WAAAAY more expensive than the more expensive fuel would have been.

So yeah.. I'm guessing a combo of crappy fuel, agro map and meth problems and I've had a "pre-ignition event" Not the sort of event I'd like to attend again in a hurry.

[HPF Chris]

I had the water/alcohol setup and maps from AA accordingly... interesting about the heat and gas above as it was a VERY hot summer this year and our gas is pretty crappy over here...

ok will ask the shop to bore the cylinders then.. thanks for all the info, really very helpful guidance.

As to the water/alcohol problems... the pump which came with the kit lost pressure very quickly (about 6 weeks after installing it) and for some reason wasn't lifting the meth out of the tank... if you held a tank high above the pump (like 2 meters in the air) the mixture would travel down the line to the pump which would then pump perfectly to the fogger.. to remedy this we installed a small inline fuel pump between the pump and the tank.. the fogger now gives a nice strong mist and we check it regularly to make sure it's still spraying.

We are not going to try replacing it with pure meth to further reduce knocking and although more expensive.. I'm gonna to rather run on 100 octane (We are RON in SA so that's like running US 95 I guess) from now on as these repairs are WAAAAY more expensive than the more expensive fuel would have been.

So yeah.. I'm guessing a combo of crappy fuel, agro map and meth problems and I've had a "pre-ignition event" Not the sort of event I'd like to attend again in a hurry.

#1) If you bore the cylinders or hone them too far you won't be able to use factory standard bore pistons anymore or any of our used pistons.

#2) You guys should consider running a methanol line pressure switch that at minimum alerts you when methanol pressures drop below a safe level. Ideally you would drop boost back down or inject extra fuel and reduce timing if the methanol pressure dropped.

[Estoril-E46]

As to the water/alcohol problems... the pump which came with the kit lost pressure very quickly (about 6 weeks after installing it) and for some reason wasn't lifting the meth out of the tank... if you held a tank high above the pump (like 2 meters in the air) the mixture would travel down the line to the pump which would then pump perfectly to the fogger.. to remedy this we installed a small inline fuel pump between the pump and the tank.. the fogger now gives a nice strong mist and we check it regularly to make sure it's still spraying.


That sounds exactly like a centrifugal pump that lost its prime. I'm pretty sure the pump you had should have been a diaphragm though that doesn't need to be primed.

[Matt Q]

Dunno... need to check all these things.. just that we installed the kit as per instructions and the pump gave hassles.. hopefully the new meth setup will be better... also will look into the meth line pressure alert

thanks guys, will let you know as soon as I have more news

[HPF Chris]

Dunno... need to check all these things.. just that we installed the kit as per instructions and the pump gave hassles.. hopefully the new meth setup will be better... also will look into the meth line pressure alert

thanks guys, will let you know as soon as I have more news

Here's a thread I just wrote for you about running methanol with your superchargers.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=685926

[Matt Q]

Thanks Chris... been an very educational but very expensive week for me

[Saintly]

Thanks Chris... been an very educational but very expensive week for me
Matt, sorry to see pics of what we discussed as being a reality. Better fuel is the key and a less aggressive tune. There are just so many factors that need to be taken into account. Good luck with the re-build.:)

[Matt Q]

Thanks Loren

Bit depressing seeing those pistons yesterday but as I said about.. you gotta pay to play. I AM 100% following your advice on the fuel from now one tho

[Matt Q]

Question to the US guys.... what race fuel are you running?? I know HPF talks about 110 race fuel... but is this anti knock or MON?

The Sunoco 110 is actually 105 MON whilst their 112 Supreme is a proper 110 MON and on our side of the pond it would be a 114 octane...

Just wondering as this will help advise me future fuel choices...

Also recon I'm gonna stick to 100 octane airplane fuel from now on... during the course of today I have seen it rated 100 RON on 1 site, 100 MON on another and 100 anti-knock from an airfield.. lol

[SPDu4ea]

I'm not a big fan of avgas. Most of the people I know running it only do so because they're chummy with airplane mechanics with stockpiles of the stuff (once drained from an airplane tank it isn't supposed to be reused). Avgas also has a significantly lower specific gravity than race gas.

As for HPF, Chris has stated that the tune is based on Sunoco 110 (which is RON 115 and MON 105 for a (R+M)/2 of 110). VP 110 is a common substitute and has a RON of 113 and MON of 107 for the same r+M/2 of 110

100/130 avgas has 99.5 MON and 100.5 RON for a R+M/2 of 100. 100LL should have a similar R+M/2 but a slightly larger gap (probably something like 99mon 101 ron). So it isn't nearly as good as automotive race fuel. It is still quite a bit better than anything you'd find at the pump, but again it wouldn't be my first choice

[Matt Q]

We get 100LL here.. not great for the planet but certainly WAY better than the crap coming out of the pumps here... perhaps I'll just be better off tuning for pump to be safe

[Matt Q]

Update:

Found replacement pistons off a local crashed M... sent off for ceramic coating. Cylinders will be checked and honed. Bolts on pistons will be replaced.

Currently flow testing intake manifold and installing new "alcohol injection systems" stage 1 methanol kit. We'll be starting on a 50/50 mix for safety.. pics to follow

[OCswedishM3]

Update:

Found replacement pistons off a local crashed M... sent off for ceramic coating. Cylinders will be checked and honed. Bolts on pistons will be replaced.

Currently flow testing intake manifold and installing new "alcohol injection systems" stage 1 methanol kit. We'll be starting on a 50/50 mix for safety.. pics to follow

Our pistons are the weak point in the S54. I suggest you change them away from factory if you already have your engine apart.

[Matt Q]

wish I could but can't afford to... at least the shop I take the car to treats my car as a learning experience and hardly charges me anything for labor... I recon we'll toast this lot and get some forged new ones when we can afford to :)

[M3ILLA]

Sorry for your troubles mate,

Although, condition of the engine is circumstantial and mileage is nothing more than a coarse gauge.

Matt, What is your equivalent to US 93 octane? 96-98?
Also you said at 120kw you were pulling stock m3's and modded 335i's, did you mistype or did I misread?

[Matt Q]

Sorry for your troubles mate,

Although, condition of the engine is circumstantial and mileage is nothing more than a coarse gauge.

Yes... from what I've been told since so it would seem.. this is DEF a result of a detonation and subsequent driving.. the detonation event must have been a while ago as the car start smoking on pull offs and I'm guessing this was cause oil was sneaking past the rings already.

Matt, What is your equivalent to US 93 octane? 96-98? Also you said at 120kw you were pulling stock m3's and modded 335i's, did you mistype or did I misread?

The comparison on fuel is very hard.. as certain types of fuel have a larger gap between RON and MON than others. US runs on anti-knock at the pump which is an average between RON and MON... the variance between RON And MON seems to range between 4 and 10 points of octane.. so the variance between RON (which is what we use) and anti-knock (which is what you use) varies between 2 and 5 points.

confusing isn't it

So... I recon yes.... your 93 is kind of like our 96-98 depending on the characteristics of the fuel... although more 98 than 96. Our pump fuel is now 95 unleaded which is the equivalent of your 89 more than likely...

That said I know a guy who put a knock sensor on his turboed toyota as he was worried about variances in fuel... he filled up at a different station and after months of knock free driving the alarm suddenly came on.. so the fuel from some dodgy stations could actually be BELOW you 89!!!

I guess combine fuel of below 89 with a hot day, meth kit not pushing full blast and driving hard and you have a recipe for detonation that the DME simply wont be able to deal with.

As to the power comment.. sorry probably my mistype... what I meant was I estimated that my power was DOWN by 120kw since I was dynoed at 355kw when she was healthy and stock M3's are pulling around 220-230kw and I was sitting next to them... so just an estimate on how much power I seemed to have lost - If this is possible to judge in this way.

(BTW I know a stock M3 is rated at 255kw by BMW but I have yet to see one actually dyno that number on SA fuel without mods and a tune of sorts)

[Matt Q]

Hi Guys

The next chapter, Chris sorry I didn't get back to you again but after saying I'd get those pistons, some arrived from up-country later that day and at the same price.. so better to get them from closer and all.. but we certainly will keep yours in mind for future as they are like hen's teeth in this country.

Here are the pistons we found before they were cleaned and ceramic coated

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0437-1.jpg

and a few day's later.. here are the pistons freshly back from ceramic coating and ready to rock. Zaid will be balancing them before they go back in.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0448.jpg

Notice the slightly matt finish on them from the ceramic coating.. now they are WAY more heat resistant which is lekker for NOS

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0449.jpg

The head is back from being re-furbed, it has been thoroughly cleaned, skimmed and fitted with new seals.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0450.jpg

the inside is simply stunning, ready for re-seating and re-assembly

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0452.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0454.jpg

the bottom end will be hauled out and skimmed (honed) later today.. Zaid didn't want to hone it until moment before the pistons and head went back as the salty humid winter air in Cape Town would be less than friendly to the engine post-skimming... so this way it gets prepped and sealed up tight before any corrosion can take place.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0456.jpg

He is also fitting a fresh set of NGK Iridium plugs (same as the previous Denso's just different make) which are cold-spark plugs which have been proven locally in charged and NOS applications.

I'll take some more pics tomorrow :)

[Saintly]

Great stuff Matt. Good luck with the build:)

[Miss325]

That's too bad man, sucks when things break down :(

The car looks fantastic so I hope after this round of engine work it performs too!

[Matt Q]

Thanks guys.. btw we have traced the problems (we think!) to a faulty switch for the water/alchohol setup... we connected a LED to show when it was on and instead of coming on steadily at the required boost it flickered and came in intermittently. The water/alcohol system not working properly could DEFINITElY have cause a pre-detonation event especially combined with our crappy fuel. Either way we'll be upgrading to a meth/water system so it'll be much safe... it's a long weekend in South Africa so more pics and news on Tuesday pm

[bigjae1976]

Are you using the AA w/a system? How old was your pump?

[Matt Q]

Yeah was using the AA system... was about 1 year old... now switching from water alchohol to water& meth using a new pump and system

[Matt Q]

Ok so here's the next installment of pics

First up.. all the bits ready to put back

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0475.jpg

the new pistons now have a fresh set of OE rings

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0473.jpg

Bottom end open to reach the driveshaft

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0478.jpg

That is one BIG ASS swaybar, courtesy of UUC (Swaybarbarian!!)

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0476.jpg

Honing Cylinder 5

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0466.jpg

This is an UN-honed cylinder (closest one) notice how the inside looks all polished and smooth.. this is BAD as the oil can slip past the piston head and subsequently a bit of compression can be lost.. besides all the other yucky results of having oil slipping past the pistons the whole time

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0467.jpg

This is a freshly honed cylinder, notice how the wall looks shinier.. the honing gives the inside of the wall a cross scratched surface which grips the oil better and gives a better compression and seal between the new rings and the cylinder wall

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0468.jpg

Here is the Snap-On tool for getting the pistons in.. the tool compresses the rings and the slips into the cylinder.. the piston is the hammered down into the tool where it seats in the cylinder.. the rings expand/contract and this way form a very tight seal in the cylinder.. didn't know all this stuff till I watched it happen..now when you are driving and the rings warm up even more.. the seal and compression gets even better.. now you see how important it is to get it all warm before you hammer it...

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0479.jpg

And there we go!! Piston no 6 in.. a beautiful shiny new piston in a beautiful shiny new cylinder with new rings and everything rearing to go.... look how happy it looks.. ready to the have cr#p blaster out of it.. ha ha

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0481.jpg

I'll post more soon.. we should be firing her up again tomorrow.....

also just found out that the water pump is also shot.. boo hooo!!!

[Matt Q]

Oh yes... and here's a clip of the honing process

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Y6TXEKm6U

Maybe it's just me, but this has got to be one of the most porno clips of an engine I've EVER seen... I actually put some 70's funk on and watched it repeatedly.... oh yeah.. hone that cylinder b!tch

[dennymedeiros]

Cant wait to see this beast fired up..

[Matt Q]

Alright peoplezz/// moving on

The head was on and all happy this AM.. all torqued on with new bolts and bits

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0483.jpg

Next up the injectors and rail is attached

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0484.jpg

and the cams go in

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0486.jpg

here is the Vanos unit which also had a service while it was out

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0485.jpg

and here is the vanos units fitted and busy being tightened up

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0489.jpg

in theory you could crank it at this point... provide you dont mind sucking in dirty air and spraying oil everywhere.. ha ha... so by now the engine bay is probably finished ( my how i wish I wasn't at work) and they are just busy neatening everything up.

Later this PM they'll be routing the new braided lines for the new Meth kit and installing the tank and pump where the old AA system was situated.

As always... more pics to follow :)

[ispeedm3]

i run c16 from vp racing. has anybody heard of the new import racing fuel? its like 120+ or something. supposedly makes 5% more HP than the c16

[Matt Q]

Dunno? In South Africa we have fairly limited fuel supplies.... pump is 95 (which is equivalent to your 91 or 89), then we get a 100LL Avgas.. which is a true 100... there is also 104 and 120 Race Fuel available which are also both US Octane.. but VERY expensive

[Matt Q]

Finally.... the covers and all where installed yesterday PM.. the bay is still a bit of a mess but Zaid and co will spend the whole of Friday neatening the bay and re-checking EVERYTHING before I pick her up for the weekend.

Here is the completed engine bay (wires on the right where later wrapped in sleeves)

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0501.jpg

and the engine bay high pressure cleaning begins... Zeemax is uBer thorough

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/Jezebel%20Engine%20Overhaul%2009/IMG_0505.jpg

and the first clip of the new engine running... although you can't tell much from this clip... she is sounding pretty darn fierce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhkFk-I6CVk

[dennymedeiros]

Sounds badass...sounds likes its all f*cking ready to tear up the pavement:str8pimpi once again

If you can...take some videos of it taking off from a stop.

What Headgasket and Studs did you use?

[B33MER]

Sounds awesome :thumbsup: more vids pls ... :D

[Matt Q]

Thanks guys :) drove her home tonight.. and everything certainly feels very tight... iddling a leeeetle bit higher than usual but I'm guessing it's cause everything still needs to loosen up a hell of a lot.. Zaid has upped the run in period to 2,000 km and the car is parked outside on 99,999 ha ha!!

so at 102,000 I'll be back at Zeemax for the new map and dyno and installation of the new meth system... plumbing etc is in..

That said, she is sounding incredible and the overall feel of the engine is just somehow "fresher"

will be interesting to see power levels after the run in period is over

M@!

[dennymedeiros]

Thanks guys :) drove her home tonight.. and everything certainly feels very tight... iddling a leeeetle bit higher than usual but I'm guessing it's cause everything still needs to loosen up a hell of a lot.. Zaid has upped the run in period to 2,000 km and the car is parked outside on 99,999 ha ha!!

so at 102,000 I'll be back at Zeemax for the new map and dyno and installation of the new meth system... plumbing etc is in..

That said, she is sounding incredible and the overall feel of the engine is just somehow "fresher"

will be interesting to see power levels after the run in period is over

M@!

I wanted to know what kind of head gasket and studs did you use? I heard BMW engine are notorious to pop the gasket on high boost.... I know HPF cars run special studs.

[InDiGlOM3]

The stage 1 and 2 HPF Kits use factory Head gasket and Head Studs, Its once they build the motor the use different Studs, The Custom L19's

[Matt Q]

I wanted to know what kind of head gasket and studs did you use? I heard BMW engine are notorious to pop the gasket on high boost.... I know HPF cars run special studs.

yeah sorry I didn't answer that and correct, we are using OEM engine bolts.. it's only when you go seriously high boost that you get the head lifting (like Loren AKA Saintly did) and you need hardcore HPFesque bolts.. I guess ARP or something like that... ??

Hope that helps I dunno much about built motors and such, only what I've learnt watching mine get done

[dennymedeiros]

Ah ok thanks guy's. I was just wondering because after I install my C38-81 I will be looking at buying a used M54B30 and rebuilding it for F/I duty.

So I guess I dont have to worry about head lifting even on maxing out the C38-81 Max boost is 12-14PSI I think more then that and it will suck the life out of the blower.

[pei330ci]

Ah ok thanks guy's. I was just wondering because after I install my C38-81 I will be looking at buying a used M54B30 and rebuilding it for F/I duty.

So I guess I dont have to worry about head lifting even on maxing out the C38-81 Max boost is 12-14PSI I think more then that and it will suck the life out of the blower.

As you know, PSI seen at the manifold isn't going to tell you peak cylinder pressure. I've made over 400 rwtq with an M54B30....so that may be a hint of what could be achieved with a built engine and proper fuel. However, this is one of those things where you have to do it and see what happens.

Welcome to the FI club Denny! :)

[dennymedeiros]

As you know, PSI seen at the manifold isn't going to tell you peak cylinder pressure. I've made over 400 rwtq with an M54B30....so that may be a hint of what could be achieved with a built engine and proper fuel. However, this is one of those things where you have to do it and see what happens.

Welcome to the FI club Denny! :)

Thank you Sir :bow:

[Barry_M3]

Oh yes... and here's a clip of the honing process

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Y6TXEKm6U

Maybe it's just me, but this has got to be one of the most porno clips of an engine I've EVER seen... I actually put some 70's funk on and watched it repeatedly.... oh yeah.. hone that cylinder b!tch
cool thread for sure. i have a question though. does your machine shop not have a cylinder hone machine? using a dingleberry hone on a drill motor like can put quite a bit of taper in the cylinder and makes for a pretty uneven crosshatch since the spindle speed vs movement up and down isn't constant/regulated and there is no torque plate used. pretty much all the machine shops here in the states use something like this:
http://www.koernerracing.com/cv-616.htm

[Matt Q]

cool thread for sure. i have a question though. does your machine shop not have a cylinder hone machine? using a dingleberry hone on a drill motor like can put quite a bit of taper in the cylinder and makes for a pretty uneven crosshatch since the spindle speed vs movement up and down isn't constant/regulated and there is no torque plate used. pretty much all the machine shops here in the states use something like this:
http://www.koernerracing.com/cv-616.htm

Thanks dude :)

Dunno if they do but they reconed that the dingleberry jobby was fine... (dingleberry!! ha ha.. is that really what it's called.. ) classic!

Hope it'll be good enough. As I'm chasing (as money permits) Saintly's setup I will have to rebuilt with new lower compression pistons, rods and hardcore bolts at some stage.. perhaps that will be the time to remove the bottom end and do a full on bench honing vibe...

Spent a good chunk of the PM running in the motor today.. it's gonna take a while at this rate... must say that the engine feels very smooth... it's one of those weird things when you are very connected to your car.. without using words like "feel" I can't describe the difference in the engine.. but she certainly "feels healthier" ha ha

[Matt Q]

SO I took her on the first real run today with some photographer friends in tow... the car has done 1800km and needs another 200km over the weekend before she goes back in for a full check over again, the the new uprated meth system and new maps.. and a tank of AVGAS.. then a bit of hard running on new fuel and map and the back on the dyno.. only then will I consider this repair process 100% done..

that said.. after a cool run through the hills i can say that she is running like a BEAST... we chased a 911 turbo up a long straight uphill stretch and I was able to sit with him all the way to 240km/h and he was HAMMERING it.. when we got to the next lights his face was just priceless :) wish I'd had the camera ready

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/DSCF9386.jpg

I'll post vids, pics and dyno charts next week.. Tonight I am one SERIOUSLY happy AA customer.. this car is BRUTAL

[MachRc]

Wow! congrats ! Seems like this meth stuff is addicting !

[Saintly]

SO I took her on the first real run today with some photographer friends in tow... the car has done 1800km and needs another 200km over the weekend before she goes back in for a full check over again, the the new uprated meth system and new maps.. and a tank of AVGAS.. then a bit of hard running on new fuel and map and the back on the dyno.. only then will I consider this repair process 100% done..

that said.. after a cool run through the hills i can say that she is running like a BEAST... we chased a 911 turbo up a long straight uphill stretch and I was able to sit with him all the way to 240km/h and he was HAMMERING it.. when we got to the next lights his face was just priceless :) wish I'd had the camera ready

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/breakbeatzboy/DSCF9386.jpg

I'll post vids, pics and dyno charts next week.. Tonight I am one SERIOUSLY happy AA customer.. this car is BRUTALWelcome back Matt:woot: Hopefully the AFR etc are spot on this time.

[Matt Q]

Welcome back Matt:woot: Hopefully the AFR etc are spot on this time.

Yeah I'm hoping the same.. just popped by the garage to book her in for Monday and the other AA car was there with the SAME problem..... engine losing power.. they've opened it up to check.. hope it isn't the pistons again... if it is we have a problem over here as that will be the third AA install with busted pistons.... IE - something is going very very wrong

[Saintly]

Yeah I'm hoping the same.. just popped by the garage to book her in for Monday and the other AA car was there with the SAME problem..... engine losing power.. they've opened it up to check.. hope it isn't the pistons again... if it is we have a problem over here as that will be the third AA install with busted pistons.... IE - something is going very very wrongWould be highly unusual, but I would be guessing poor fuel quality if it is the case.

[Matt Q]

That's what we are also leaning towards.... here's a clip from the drive.. she's sounding REALLY good and is pulling like crazy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_I-3YVM_IM

[BimmerDude18]

89 is really not sufficient for the stock engine, much less boosted. If those guys are pushing their cars on 89 I would say that is part of it.

[Matt Q]

The confusion comes in on the MON/RON variance as we run RON over here and the standard is 95 at the pump... this may well be 89 RON which would make it somewhere in between by US standards, possible around 91/92 (ish)

[Matt Q]

hmm.. this helps

http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html
http://www.factorypro.com/tech/octane_measurement.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/1932152-fuel-octane-rating-ron-vs-mon-etc.html

bur we certainly aren't as bad as 89... perhaps 91... the problem is I've heard that the controls in place are not as strict as they should be so it may well be that a drop of 1 or 2 octane points is occuring at some of the fuel companies.. ?? I have been cautioned to only use Caltex and Shell locally as the have stricter Octane ratings than some of the others

[BimmerDude18]

hmm.. this helps

http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html
http://www.factorypro.com/tech/octane_measurement.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/1932152-fuel-octane-rating-ron-vs-mon-etc.html

bur we certainly aren't as bad as 89... perhaps 91... the problem is I've heard that the controls in place are not as strict as they should be so it may well be that a drop of 1 or 2 octane points is occuring at some of the fuel companies.. ?? I have been cautioned to only use Caltex and Shell locally as the have stricter Octane ratings than some of the others
Very possible its fuel variance, it could also be a number of other little things. I know AA hasn't had major issues in the US with people dropping engines, well, I can comment confidently on the locals. But we have 93 here, and its pretty consistent so its one less variable. Look at HPF's discovery that certain meth brands will destroy their systems...fuel quality makes or breaks these kits.

[Matt Q]

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Ok... so after a weekend of wonderful driving, I take her back in for the post run-in service and everything is good. We also change the air flow to dump to atmosphere and block the inlet just before the charger..... sounding better now and noticeable less lag on aggressive changes.

Then later that PM having trouble starting her.... strange.... then again that night.

The next morning really struggle to get the engine going, turns over but wont take.. try running it to start it and the wheels LOCK and the car skids to a halt.. then the engine starts but makes a sound sort of like a spanner INSIDE the block....switch off quickly....Call the garage AGAIN and have the car towed.

SO WHAT HAPPENED?

The boost activated switch which came with the kit (and gave us trouble already) somehow got jammed and stayed on, spraying water/meth into the intake which collected and ran down into cylinder NO 4...

As the spray is very fine.. it was only enough liquid to choke the car after a few hours so that explains the sputtering start the night before.. the next morning, however, there was a sizeable amount of meth and water in the cylinder and the engine suffered from hydraulic lock as you cant compress water much, if at all...

when I rolled the car, the force of it bent the rod in cylinder 4 and the clanging sound I subsequently was the piston slapping the water 2,000 times and minute!!!

The force of it also scored the side of cylinder 4 so they have had to re-bore it and kit a sleeve into it :(

The car should be running again by Friday....

The dodgy meth switch may also have been partly responsible for the initial detonation since crap fuel + no meth + aggressive map = big trouble

Lesson learnt.. one very small component can wreck your engine... again and again...

[Saintly]

Damn sorry to hear that! Strange that it stayed on even when the car was off, sure it is wired right. I would change to their electronic box.

[Matt Q]

Not sure Loren... but I'm pretty pissed off to be sure... I'm CERTAINLY not paying for this new repair

M@!