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-   -   what are your thoughts on christmas, and celebrating it?? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=219305)

bmwti 12-22-2004 10:25 AM

what are your thoughts on christmas, and celebrating it??
 
Some may say that, in recent years christmas is getting downgraded. You read stories of schools banning gift giving during the holidays, on school grounds, as it "might" offend the people that dont celebrate the holiday.

I just read a news article, about how someone is suing her local township, because they refused to let her put up a display celebrating the birth of christ, yet right next to where she wanted to put it, a menorah was proudly displayed.

My friends work asked him to take down his little christmas tree off his desk, because it might upset coworkers.- yet someone else, was able to keep her "happy kwanzaa" cards that family members gave her - standing up at her desk.

What are some christians thoughts on the issues? do you feel that some of the political correctness has gotten out of hand?

What about the members on here that don't celebrate the holiday, do you feel that the christmas holiday is overbearing, and offends you to some degree?

What about the people that dont consider themselves religious at all, what are your thoughts on saying "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas"?

Thought this might be an interesting discussion.

James330I 12-22-2004 11:04 AM

Xmas is Xmas man. If not for the religions implications behind it, how about celebrating the happiness and joy that it brings to people? The gift-giving and togetherness during this time of year is hard to miss. Christmas to me is more than the religion behind it.

I know many jews and atheists who allow their children to celebrate xmas because it's cruel to have them miss out on this magical time of year.

You really really have to be a cruel and miserable person if you think someone celebrating xmas in front of you is offending your non-christian beliefs.

guest1008 12-22-2004 12:05 PM

I celebrate it. I'm not the gov't so I can be as religious as I want. Course, I'm not hardcore like some people are (like Baptists I suppose), so I'm not as in your face about it. I love X-mas. It's a very important religious event, but, it's got tons of fun secular stuff too. X-mas trees, all the decorations, holiday foods... I like all that stuff. Prolly cuz I'm in Cali so it makes me imagine snow and all that winter scenery cept I don't have to live with bundling up and shoveling snow and crap.

Basically, people need to chill out. One of my coworkers is Jewish. He's got his menorrah and stuff. But, he's got Santa Claus dolls, lights, and a bunch of "X-mas" decorations up too just cuz he likes teh holidays and everything about it like me. But, at his old workplace, some Orthodox Jew yelled at him for having that stuff. Said, "What, are you ashamed of being a Jew?" just cuz he had lights and secular decorations up. Nothing like a cross or Jesus or anything. So retarded. It's my office and as long as I don't put anything up that goes directly at people (like a "Repent or Die!" sign), people should leave me alone and let me celebrate how I want.

330man 12-22-2004 12:57 PM

If people are offended my the celebration of XMAS then they should petition their senators to have the national holiday revoked. Isn't the point of a democracy that the majority rules? Is that not how an election works? Is that not how propositions are enacted? If people are offended by XMAS, good for them. They have a right to be offended and to speak their minds about it. But don't just whine, take action. Try to ban the federal holiday of XMAS. If you fail, then it's time to ****.

benzfreak 12-22-2004 01:04 PM

Christmas is not about religion anymore. It has become like Halloween. Halloween started off as a pagean holiday, now it is something totally different. You don't see people whining saying "It is a pagean holiday and I am offended.". Last time I checked Jesus had nothing to do with Reindeers, Rudolph, Christmas trees and presents. Christmas is religious for anyone that makes it religious. But for the rest of the people it is just to give and recieve presents. Anyone who says that christmas is purely a religious holiday is mistaken.

330man 12-22-2004 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzfreak
Christmas is not about religion anymore. It has become like Halloween. Halloween started off as a pagean holiday, now it is something totally different. You don't see people whining saying "It is a pagean holiday and I am offended.". Last time I checked Jesus had nothing to do with Reindeers, Rudolph, Christmas trees and presents. Christmas is religious for anyone that makes it religious. But for the rest of the people it is just to give and recieve presents. Anyone who says that christmas is purely a religious holiday is mistaken.

A christmas tree is significant due to it's evergreen nature. It is supposed to represent the eternal life and love of Jesus.

dboffa 12-22-2004 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330man
A christmas tree is significant due to it's evergreen nature. It is supposed to represent the eternal life and love of Jesus.


It has its roots in Germanic pagan celebrations, if I recall correctly.

330man 12-22-2004 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboffa
It has its roots in Germanic pagan celebrations, if I recall correctly.

I suspect that there are many different reasons to many different people. I doubt Christians celebrating XMAS thought a pagan symbol would go great with their celebration.

dboffa 12-22-2004 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330man
I suspect that there are many different reasons to many different people. I doubt Christians celebrating XMAS thought a pagan symbol would go great with their celebration.

I think you'd be pretty surprised if you found out just how much Christian ritual owes to pagan celebrations.

Do you know why Christmas is celebrated in December? It lined up with earlier pagan celebrations. Not because anyone suspected Jesus was actually born on December 25. For all we know, he was born April 3, September 18, etc, etc.

And Christmas trees, as well as other "Christmas" traditions, do have pagan roots. Do some research.

330man 12-22-2004 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboffa
I think you'd be pretty surprised if you found out just how much Christian ritual owes to pagan celebrations.

Do you know why Christmas is celebrated in December? It lined up with earlier pagan celebrations. Not because anyone suspected Jesus was actually born on December 25. For all we know, he was born April 3, September 18, etc, etc.

And Christmas trees, as well as other "Christmas" traditions, do have pagan roots. Do some research.

There are only two things that are important to me about XMAS. 1) My kids being happy and enjoying the holiday. 2) A time for some religious reflection.

dboffa 12-22-2004 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330man
There are only two things that are important to me about XMAS. 1) My kids being happy and enjoying the holiday. 2) A time for some religious reflection.


Nothing wrong with that.

But earlier you were trying to deny the holiday's pagan roots.

And though I don't believe in a personal god, I enjoy the season as well, outside of all the filthy commericial wh0ring that goes on.

guest1008 12-22-2004 01:56 PM

If a lot of "Christmas" symbols have pagan roots, then it's even more retarded for people to complain. I've actually heard someone complain about Santa. Yes, the jolly fat man who gives gifts. Said it promoted Christmas too much and offended their right not to believe in that holiday. Those people need to move to North Korea. Doubt there's much Christmas celebrating there.

330man 12-22-2004 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboffa
Nothing wrong with that.

But earlier you were trying to deny the holiday's pagan roots.

And though I don't believe in a personal god, I enjoy the season as well, outside of all the filthy commericial wh0ring that goes on.

I guess what I was really arguing is what XMAS means to me, not what some history book says it means. To me it is about the birth of Christ. I do not consider it a birthday party for Jesus but rather a good time to reflect on my religion as a whole and as I stated before, to make sure my kids enjoy the holiday in general.

rdsesq 12-22-2004 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwti
Some may say that, in recent years christmas is getting downgraded. You read stories of schools banning gift giving during the holidays, on school grounds, as it "might" offend the people that dont celebrate the holiday.

As long as they are doing this for everybody no gift exchange, I'm cool with that. I think it has much more to do with kids of various income levels going to the same school rather then anything religious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwti
I just read a news article, about how someone is suing her local township, because they refused to let her put up a display celebrating the birth of christ, yet right next to where she wanted to put it, a menorah was proudly displayed.

Yep, that is discrimination and should not be allowed. either allow both or neither.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwti
My friends work asked him to take down his little christmas tree off his desk, because it might upset coworkers.- yet someone else, was able to keep her "happy kwanzaa" cards that family members gave her - standing up at her desk.

This is also discrimination and should not be allowed. The only thing would be if the tree was real as it might pose a fire hazard. There are some weird code rules about certain types of combustable meterial. If the tree is not real, then it is most likely discrimination. Was he allowed to keep xmas cards up. The rule can be the cards are ok but other stuff is not. So a tree or a menorah, might not be.


As for me. I don't celebrate it. (Actually, I am probably upgrading my halos that day since the guy doing it Jewish. When we were looking for a time we realized that neither of us has anythign going on on the 25th. :woot: )

The only real problem I have with Dec 25th, is basically everything is closed. Starbucks, most fast food, Fry's electronics, 24 hour grocery stores (what's up with that anyway :dunno: )
Also, the fact that everyplace you go is playing holiday music. I don't object to it, but it does get annoying.

If people want to celbrate Christmas, Xmas, Qwanzza, Hanukkah, Teddy the Wonder Lizard Day. I really don't care. Now if they get in my grill, which has happened (What do you mean you don't celebrate Christmas!!!! What are you a f*cking commie!!!!!!!), then I get a bit testy. But, if they want to celebrate their belief, cool. If the do it in the privacy of their own digs, that is even cooler. If the put it out in public and its not in your face, I am OK with that. They are out in public "preaching" about it. Different story. I then feel compelled to argue about it. If for no other reason then to have a public voice of dissent in a public forum.

As for the whole "Merry Christmas" vs "Happy Holiday" greeting thing. I just tell people "A very happy winter solstice holiday of your choice." That seems to cover just about everything.

Although every once in a while I will use the following response to "Merry Christmas". "Xmas...Xmas...Ohh!!!...You mean that pagen holiday that was co-opted by the various christian sects since they didn't actually know the actual date of birth of their supposed savior." OR my personal favorite "Merry Christmas? Not if you were Joseph. I mean think about it, what the hell is so merry about having to raise a kid because your wife got pregenet, and it wasn't you. And she was a still a virgin. All that money and hassle to raise a kid, and you didn't even get laid in the process. Talk about a getting a raw deal. I don't see what Joseph had to be so merry about. Unless Mary sucked c*ck really good."

A happy winter solstice holiday to all. :D

04E46 12-22-2004 02:03 PM

I forgot that USA was not a "freedom of religion" country.

I always forget about it. Even if Christmas is a Christian holiday who cares. Im not a christian and I celebrate it. Its fun and happy time.

I am american indian and people celebrate thanksgiving. That doesnt offend me :).

I just get jokes from my friends asking me if they can trade me some marbles and beads for my car.

People are so up tight in the states.

rdsesq 12-22-2004 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboffa
And though I don't believe in a personal god, I enjoy the season as well, outside of all the filthy commericial wh0ring that goes on.

I dunno DB. I would say that filthy commericial wh0ring is one of the cornerstones of modern western civilization. I actaully love to see the commericial wh0ring, it just goes to show how right P.T. Barnum was.

dboffa 12-22-2004 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsesq
I dunno DB. I would say that filthy commericial wh0ring is one of the cornerstones of modern western civilization. I actaully love to see the commericial wh0ring, it just goes to show how right P.T. Barnum was.

Without a doubt. Commercial wh0ring is ubiquitous in our society, year round. But the holiday season takes the wh0ring to a whole new level.

benzfreak 12-22-2004 02:09 PM

It is true. Christmas was put in December to coincide with the Pagean holiday in hopes that they will convert. They were trying to get the word out so they put it on the same day. This is true.

But I still think that it is not as religious as it once was. I hate christmas now to tell you the truth. I get pissed by all the shopping and whatnot. It's annoying and a hassle. But I have friends that are not christians and they celebrate christmas.

guest1008 12-22-2004 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04E46
I forgot that USA was not a "freedom of religion" country.

I always forget about it. Even if Christmas is a Christian holiday who cares. Im not a christian and I celebrate it. Its fun and happy time.

I am american indian and people celebrate thanksgiving. That doesnt offend me :).

I just get jokes from my friends asking me if they can trade me some marbles and beads for my car.

People are so up tight in the states.

Holy cow! A sense of humor. I thought that was extinct in America.

And what's wrong with commercial whoring? Greed is what drives this economy and helped make it great. Besides, I like X-mas presents. :)

04E46 12-22-2004 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codex57
Holy cow! A sense of humor. I thought that was extinct in America.

And what's wrong with commercial whoring? Greed is what drives this economy and helped make it great. Besides, I like X-mas presents. :)

America is one of the few countries where you can be poor and made feel bad about it, then work your butt off to get rich and still be made to feel bad about it.

So many people want to be in charge of their destiny yet want someone else to be in charge of it and the second they fail its someone elses fault.

Sorry for the rant.


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