E46Fanatics

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-   -   Chris Bangle (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=350210)

///AZNSLVR 03-24-2006 09:53 AM

Chris Bangle
 
http://www.forbes.com/2003/06/02/cx_mf_0602feat.html

http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPCB/petition.html

Chris Bangle is a dumba$$.
I'm kind of happy he did design the new style.
At least our E46 design will look good for another 3-5 years...lolol

CHRIS U SUUUCK! HAHA!

crazyro 03-24-2006 10:00 AM

Ok people, STOP BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE. I can't believe how many idiots are in this world. AGAIN, Bangle DID NOT design these cars, but merely approved them. Also, did you catch this?

"But Bangle sincerely disagrees, and, moreover, he is fully backed by the weight of the BMW board of directors (BMW is still largely controlled by the will of the Quandt family), who specifically asked Bangle to move the company's image forward, whether traditionalists like it or not."

Actually, some of the designers who penned some of the very controversial designs were upset that Bangle got all the heat. They want to be known as the ones who changed the BMW look, and yet, as Adrian put it, "Bangle gets all the heat. It's just not fair."

So, PLEASE stop this!

MFarrZHP 03-24-2006 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyro
Ok people, STOP BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE. I can't believe how many idiots are in this world. AGAIN, Bangle DID NOT design these cars, but merely approved them. Also, did you catch this?

"But Bangle sincerely disagrees, and, moreover, he is fully backed by the weight of the BMW board of directors (BMW is still largely controlled by the will of the Quandt family), who specifically asked Bangle to move the company's image forward, whether traditionalists like it or not."

Actually, some of the designers who penned some of the very controversial designs were upset that Bangle got all the heat. They want to be known as the ones who changed the BMW look, and yet, as Adrian put it, "Bangle gets all the heat. It's just not fair."

So, PLEASE stop this!

True, this horse has no pulse and is getting pummeled. However, Bangle is the design chief, so he is still mostly responsible.

All the new Bimmers, with the exception of the 6 and maybe the new //M Z4 coupe, do not live up to their predecessors' design IMO. BMW needs to hire some of the new designers at Audi.

BTW, that article and petition are really old news.

///AZNSLVR 03-24-2006 10:10 AM

oooops. :rolleyes:

I just wanted to start drama. Sowwy. The design still sucks though. :spit:

crazyro 03-24-2006 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFarrZHP
However, Bangle is the design chief, so he is still mostly responsible.

Totally agree. What I'm getting tired of is ignorant people who think that Chris actually designed the new cars and it is somehow his fault. Again, other people designed the new cars. BMW management fully backs these designs. It's just that Chris is the "spokesman," if you will, of these.

The last issue of Roundel magazine has a great write-up. A few editors went to the show and heard Chris speak, which made them appreciate his vision and his ideas. Yes, the designs are VERY controversial. Yes, I agree that they are a far cry from the older designs. Yes, I still like the E39 over E60 any day. However, what's done is done, and it was done for a reason and with purpose. Like it or not. Agree with it or not.

FRANCO 03-24-2006 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFarrZHP
True, this horse has no pulse and is getting pummeled. However, Bangle is the design chief, so he is still mostly responsible.

All the new Bimmers, with the exception of the 6 and maybe the new //M Z4 coupe, do not live up to their predecessors' design IMO. BMW needs to hire some of the new designers at Audi.

BTW, that article and petition are really old news.

the new designs purpose wasn't to live up to the predecessor's design, but to radically change the direction and how the industry design's cars....in fact, Motor Trend magazine made Bangle the 6th most influential person in the automotive industry, in turn making hiom the MOST influential designer.....

look at the new Audi's, Benz's (S-Class), Mitsubishi's, VW's, japanese cars, even korean cars........specifically focusing on Audi's new NOSE....it's getting a lot of heat from Audi enthusiasts (personally i like it).....but if it didn't go in that direction, sitting next to the BMW's the Audi's (and any other car for that matter) wouldn't draw as much attention as the BMW....

the article is old, and in fact, BMW sales are up and still goin up.....BMW's have always been known to be wolves in sheeps clothing, but BMW wanted to change that and make a more radical stance on the street so people would notice their cars better.....i personally like all of the BMW's (facelifted 7er, 3er, 5er, 6er, Z4)...as well as the the Audi's and others...you gotta think outside the box....people take a long time to change especially when it's something that was so familiar for decades.....i mean look how long it took for the MAN to accept womena and minorities as equals...hahahahah jk jk

Tuscan 03-24-2006 10:25 AM

Bangle is my dad.

cd330 03-24-2006 10:33 AM

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3...horse511mn.gif

afshawnt 03-24-2006 10:37 AM

I think Bangle is brilliant. The new designs are great in my opinion. The lines, curves, and angles work well together. They move BMW in a forward direction, as have all previous re-designs. Having owned an E30, E46, and soon to be E90, I can't say than any one design is better than the other. The "Bangle Butt" is very similar to the E30 M3, and that is one of my favorites. To each his own. Presently, I'm going nuts because I want to find me an E36 M3.

ablaz330ci 03-24-2006 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afshawnt
I think Bangle is brilliant. The new designs are great in my opinion. The lines, curves, and angles work well together. They move BMW in a forward direction, as have all previous re-designs. Having owned an E30, E46, and soon to be E90, I can't say than any one design is better than the other. The "Bangle Butt" is very similar to the E30 M3, and that is one of my favorites. To each his own. Presently, I'm going nuts because I want to find me an E36 M3.

I too love all the new designs except for the whole X3 thing. But when I see an E36 M3 coupe I can't stop staring.

Duke W 03-24-2006 11:06 AM

I agree with the fundamental assessment that the new BMW designs weren't necessarily meant to be good... just dramatic and new. That was the assignment from management and on that level they succeed.

They also succeed since the sales figures keep going up. So all the hatred is moot.

But I will say that on an aesthetic-only level, purely outside the realm of tradition and function, they have some issues that keep them from suceeding. There isn't any stylistic improvement. There's just change for its own sake.

I design things for a living. I understand the process a little. Many of today's cars bear the marks of being translated directly from concept sketch to finished product, with no refinement and development in the details. Mistubishi's cars - the Evo being a conspicuous exception - bear this effect the worst. It's like the first thing they threw on paper is what they ran with, and it shows.

Bangle's designs aren't quite that way, but almost. When you're an architect, you can look at certain buildings and imagine exactly what the rendering looked like that they used to sell the client on the design. You can picture the sketchy happy families walking towards their not-quite-identifiable generic sedan or SUV, and the flags waving in the background, and warm fuzzy markers they used to color it. You kind of automatically imagine the green lollipop trees and the weird blobby blue sky with the random lines through it.

That's what Bangle's designs are like for cars. You can instantly picture the concept sketches he presented to Board of Directors: oversized wheels with a thin strip of rubber around, zero suspension travel, a sort of sky-blue-to-pale-yellow fade down the sides so they look like the body is solid chrome, dark windows, a lot of odd, swoopy action lines slashed across it in a black felt tip to make it look jazzy and fast, and some odd sketchy things at each corner to suggest the lights (really just there to visually anchor the edges of the drawing, but it turns out you need something there anyway, lucky Chris).

The difference between the new Mitsus and the new BMWs is that Bangle has a whole bag full of little ultra-cool detail ideas that he's in love with, and has spent too many sleepless nights picturing in his own head, and overdesigning while he waits for somebody to sell them to. And now that he's found a buyer, he's going to dump as many of them onto the cars as he can while he has the chance.

But the basic proportions of the cars are just mediocre at best. Look at the clunky roofline on that 5. There's no fundamental, organizing theme. It's the "decorated shed" school of building design, applied to cars.

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/4269.jpg

Unveiled 03-24-2006 11:15 AM

I agree with most of the opinions (..and all of the facts) offered within this thread. I think BMW's design team did wonderfully, and sales prove that BMW made the right decision. It brought new people to the brand who were previously bored by the E46 design (...yes, those people do exist), and caused some previously loyal customers to search elsewhere. No automobile manufacturer can please everybody.

crazyro 03-24-2006 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke W
I agree with the fundamental assessment that the new BMW designs weren't necessarily meant to be good... just dramatic and new. That was the assignment from management and on that level they succeed.

They also succeed since the sales figures keep going up. So all the hatred is moot.

But I will say that on an aesthetic-only level, purely outside the realm of tradition and function, they have some issues that keep them from suceeding. There isn't any stylistic improvement. There's just change for its own sake.

[...]

But the basic proportions of the cars are just mediocre at best. Look at the clunky roofline on that 5. There's no fundamental, organizing theme. It's the "decorated shed" school of building design, applied to cars.

Um, sir, you may wanna get a copy of the speech Chris gave at the last car show. Your concept of his thinking and his design seems very faulty.

ThatOneGuy 03-24-2006 11:44 AM

Chris Bangle should be banned (for life) from designing anything for his crimes against style and good taste.

djsway 03-24-2006 12:01 PM

I personally love the new design of the 5.. and the 3 is alright.

No matter what I'm glad that BMW has taken a giant leap forward with their cars. If you don't change in business, you'll never survive!

James330I 03-24-2006 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unveiled
I agree with most of the opinions (..and all of the facts) offered within this thread. I think BMW's design team did wonderfully, and sales prove that BMW made the right decision. It brought new people to the brand who were previously bored by the E46 design (...yes, those people do exist), and caused some previously loyal customers to search elsewhere. No automobile manufacturer can please everybody.

:thumbup:

I always thought the E46 was rather bland in stock form, espeically the sedan. The 5 was kinda vanilla as well so I would have no prorblems buying the new 5 and 3 if I could. Performance/drivability is what carried these cars.

My E46 is looking realll old.

Duke W 03-24-2006 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyro
Um, sir, you may wanna get a copy of the speech Chris gave at the last car show. Your concept of his thinking and his design seems very faulty.

He can speechify all he wants. Doesn't mean I buy it or that he carries it off... because neither is true.

[edit] Are you joking?! I'm looking for a transcript of his speech now, but the first thing I ran across is this:
Quote:

Bangle also issued a challenge to young designers not to go for just what is cool but to understand that exterior design is much more complex that putting something out that is hip but won't stand the test of time.
That's precisely what Bangle's studio has done: hung a collection hip, trendy, fussy details on a clunky overall shape. "Elaborate" is not the same as "complex"; a difference Bangle does not understand. I predict that it will not stand the test of time in any way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangle
"Visual literacy is what car design is all about."
"Form may follow function, but meaning doesn't have to."

So, what is 'literate' and 'meaningful' about Bangle's vision? Bangle's designs are the visual equivalent of James Joyce's Ulysses - some hail it as a towering literary achievement. Others, myself included, see it as an un-constructed, over-intellectualized load of bollocks. You can insist that its meaning is too deep for mere undergraduates to comprehend. I insist that the joke is on you and there isn't any meaning. Emperor's new clothes, anyone?

Understand, I recognize that there is no such thing as bad publicity, and that the BMW sales figures moot all my dislikes and complaints. But bold design is not automatically good. Audi's new face has shaken up the look of their line and added "identity". It also looks like a Blue Whale zooming through a mass of plankton. Does that make it better or worse?

I'm having trouble coming up with a transcript of Bangle's speech, but the quotes I've read sound like any other manifesto I've seen that claims to know the new direction of design. It's going to be the old direction in about 10 years, just like all of them.

gimpyviper 03-24-2006 02:26 PM

Agreed, purist who think a car company strays too far from a "traditional" design should look at Cadillac and Buick. When the average age of your buyers are octogenarians that's a big issue. BMWs are the "Ultimate Driving Machine" not "old-fart-mobile" and they aren't successful because they keep their designs traditional. If anything you should be happy they've thrown the traditional design a bone and kept the kidney grilles and headlight layouts. Do you think Cadillac is experiencing a renaissance because there's suddenly more octogenarians? Nope two things - Escalade and Pimp My Ride. That's why Cadillac has come back. And I'm sure there are TONS of traditionalist who hate all the new Caddy designs but GM doesn't care because they sell.

Let it go people.... let it goooooooooo

The people who DON'T like the "Bangle" era are in the minority anyway (according to that Forbes poll not scientific, but still...) and no petition is gonna change BMW's opinion because 1) They specifically wanted to bust the mold, 2) More people like them than don't and most critically 3) They sell like hot cakes.

Unveiled 03-24-2006 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpyviper

Let it go people.... let it goooooooooo

The people who DON'T like the "Bangle" era are in the minority anyway (according to that Forbes poll not scientific, but still...) and no petition is gonna change BMW's opinion because 1) They specifically wanted to bust the mold, 2) More people like them than don't and most critically 3) They sell like hot cakes.


:werd:

Duke W 03-24-2006 02:48 PM

It's not that I'm traditionalist in any way. Because I'm far from it.

Cadillac's new designs are working well because they're good. The CTS-V has great proportion and balance. They are aggressively detailed, but the detailing is coherent and themed with the massing of the car. They work - and they're not carrying any sacred cows from previous Cadillacs at all. They're an integrated design package in a fresh new look that defines a new identity for an old conservative brand.

But look at the new Audi face and tell me that it wouldn't look 100% better if that whale mouth was about 75% that size. Hell, if I bought a new one, the first thing I'd do is drive around the corner and have the black divider strip painted body color. Anything to make it look like it wouldn't suck in stray pedestrians when you're stopped at a crosswalk.


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