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-   -   misfire in the morning w/ses '00 328i (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=475915)

wrbusa 05-29-2007 12:53 AM

misfire in the morning w/ses '00 328i
 
Hi all,

I've been lurking for the last 2 months since I bought my '00 328i 5spd. about a week after I got it, the check engine light came on one morning. I bought a peake tool and pulled the codes:
Table 15
F0 - misfire cylinder 3
92 - EVAP capilary leak (0.5mm)

The car would run a little shaky (probably shut off that cylinder) until I restart it, after which, it would run fine again. I cleared the codes, and a few days later the light would come back on with the same symptoms and codes. I read somewhere just driving off without letting it warm up helps, but on some mornings (colder than 40F) even this didn't help. If I drove in the afternoon, or once the weather warmed up I would never get these symptoms.

Heres what I've done so far:
1) played musical coils, plugs and boots, misfire stays on cyl 3.
2) sprayed carb cleaner with engine running to check for vacuum leak, found none.
3) code 92 has accompanied the misfire only twice, not sure if it's related.

I'm thinking it's probably an air leak or a fuel problem specific to that cylinder, but it definately goes away once the engine has warmed to out of the blue. My next step is to replace the injector o-rings, but I'm running out of ideas.

For the injector seals and intake manifold gasket, can a smoke test find small leaks like these? I've heard about lifters going bad, probably a leak down test is in order?

If anyone shares these symptoms or possible solutions, I'd really appreciate some help!

Bill B.

330 HRE 05-29-2007 01:10 AM

What you have is the hydraulic lifts that is sticking. This is a common problem with the 3 series. Basically once you are over the warm up period, you can shut it off and drive off without any shaking, this only happens when you let the car sit for 8 hours or overnight. I talked to the dealer and they said it cost roughly about 1000 dollars b/c they have to open up the head of the engine to replace the sticky valves.

wrbusa 05-29-2007 10:28 AM

Thats the most plausible explanation I've heard so far. I say this because a vacuum leak would show up at all temps, unless it closes when metals expand.

I do have some lifter noise, which I've probably just grown accustomed to having owned an old audi (notorious for lifter noise). My Bentley says a little chatter is okay, so long as it goes away in a few mins, but the previous owner said he stuck to the yearly oil-change regimine, so it doesn't surprise me if my lifters are sticky.

I held on to my old audi for situations like this to use as my test subject, so maybe I'll replace the lifters there and if it still runs afterward, attempt on my 3er :hmm:

mcoupe_73 05-29-2007 12:53 PM

i'm having the exact same problem. you can't automatically assume its the lifter...

however, it is worth it to flush the oil using a treatment. In my case we put a liter of diesel fuel and let the engine run for about half an hour before flushing it out. If it is a sticky lifter, the morning after you do this treatment, you should notice a difference.

Have you had a compression test done at cold?

In my case, i changed the coil on the misfiring cylinder, changed the spark plugs..... nothing. I then brought to a stealership, and they diagnosed the problem to be a cracked crankcase and faulty vent valve... Still did not help the problem... After this I tried the diesel treatment... but nothing changed.

I then brought the car to a trusted head machanic at another dealership, and he reprogrammed my DME. It now seems to be working better. I still get a little shake at cold start, and in 2 weeks, got only 1 misfire. It seems more intermitaent now, whereas it was every morning before.


Finally, i've decided to lay off it for a while and see if the problem becomes more significant, i.e. decrease in performance or worse symptom during cold start.

Let me know if you have further developements, and i will do the same.

wrbusa 05-30-2007 11:15 AM

Thanks for the reply. This car is my 'weekender' so I don't drive it everyday, usually in the afternoons on the highway. nearly every morning I've parked it outside I've gotten a misfire and cel.

I still feel like the annual oil changes may have left some nastiness behind, so I'm going to take off the valve cover to see how bad it is. I've heard good things about Reslone engine treatment, so I may try that, or just increasing the frequency of changes to keep the detergent level up. I've been reading about the fragility of this engine's cams so if the lifters need replacing, looks like the dealer will be getting the pleasure.

meanwhile I'm ordering parts today to:

1) change crankcase ventilation valve
2) swap fuel injectors to see if code follows (already put in some injector cleaner).
3) change intake manifold gasket.

Then I'll clean the MAF, and call the dealer to get the computer re-flashed. I've heard similar symptoms being caused by a cam sensor, but I haven't seen any of those codes.

I'll post back with my progress.

Bill B.

kl86 08-25-2007 06:30 PM

Any Luck?
 
Hi im having the same trouble as you had, did you every get to the bottom of it?your help would be much appreciated, I love my baby but shes got mental when i start her up and then seems to calm down. A bit like the misses....

wrbusa 08-26-2007 03:20 PM

Well, I haven't gotten around to tearing into her yet. Between building my other car, and working on my friend's cars I haven't even had the chance to pour a bottle of Rislone in. Luckily, I haven't seen my symptoms return for the last couple months, although the mornings haven't been colder than mid-50s. :hmm: Sorry I can't be of more help yet.

kamelkungen 01-18-2008 06:57 AM

Hello

I have missifire on cylinder 3..
I did a compression test ( cold engine ):

Cyl 1: 13
Cyl 2: 13
Cyl3: 9,5
Cyl4: 13
Cyl5: 13
Cyl6:13


Can it be the lifters ? From my experiance, a bad lifter only causes high tick-sound and the vale maybe doesn't open correctly but it closes correctly. In my case it's not closing correctly, the valve seat is probably not 100% sealed. = valve seat leakage.

wrbusa 01-18-2008 06:41 PM

That's interesting. Do you think it's caused by some sort of buildup? How's performance? I'd think you'd have running issues and misfires all the time, since the compression stroke would be very poor at that cylinder. My misfire occurs only when starting up in the morning and letting the car idle for about 2-5 minutes.

I replaced my VANOS seals last weekend, but that's the only part of my list that I've gotten to since I first noticed the misfire problem. I still get a misfire code if I let the car sit at idle to warm up. Fortunately I got rid of my cold idle 'dips', so I'm ruling out the VANOS causing the misfire.

I don't receive a misfire code if I drive right off in the morning, and otherwise both cold and warm performance is very good. How do your symptoms compare?

I do think I hear some valvetrain noise, but when I had the valve cover off, I didn't notice more than what I'd consider normal amounts of varnish on the sides of the head. There was one spot on top of the intake cam oil splash guide with some sticky residue on it, but I imagine that's similar to what builds up on the oil fill neck.

I haven't run a compression test. I was planing to add another half bottle of Rislone for the valve chatter (it seems to help a little.. going try to be more scientific this time) then do the PCV valve next based on what I saw on the inside of the breather tube where it meets the valve cover.

Please follow up with more description of your symptoms and what you've come up with.

wrbusa 12-23-2012 11:17 PM

Misfire fixed with moly!
 
I know this thread is pretty old, but I thought I'd follow up with some news. The misfires were pretty predictable, and only were happening in colder weather. Also, as long as I didn't get stuck at a light during the warm up period, I wouldn't have any troubles for the rest of the day...

In the past couple years, I've tried, no joke, all of the different 'solutions' for a cold misfire, with no real improvement. Frankly, I didn't want to believe the scored lifter diagnosis.

Fast forward to this winter, and the misfire started happening more and more often and I'd have to sometimes restart the engine 2 or 3 times... not totally unlivable, but bothersome. :hmm: Pricing out cam ledges ($400!), this repair would cost me a minimum of $500 if it was only one side (intake/exhaust on one cylinder) and doing the work myself, but could go upwards of $1500 with replacement of all lifters while I'm in there.... yeah :censor:

So options are 1) live with it or 2) trade it in. One thing I know is that car payments suck :thumbdwn:

So I'm talking to a friend of mine, and he runs Schaeffer oil in his e34 and he says it completely eliminated his lifter tick. He tells me it's loaded with molybdenum. I've heard of that stuff before! so I run out to NAPA and grab a bottle of this for $7: http://www.liquimoly.co.uk/assets/im...cts/8/main.jpg It's almost pure moly in liquid form, and it's gotten some decent reviews on the internet. I usually will not put anything other than M1 0w-40 oil in my crankcase, but I'm desperate... I added 1/2 the bottle, with the logic that I didn't want to mess up the additive package already in the oil.

What do you know? it took about 2 days before there was a real noticeable difference, but since adding it I've had no more misfires!! :craig: Now, it's been 2 weeks in some of the coldest weather of the year, and it's still idling like it's supposed to! I read this stuff stays in your engine, so you really only need it every other oil change. 1/2 bottle every oil change is still pretty manageable. I may try the Schaeffer oil my buddy uses next, to see if it's worth switching to from M1. One thing's for sure, our e85 z4 is getting the other half of this bottle and I'm sending my brother a case for his m3, just as preventative measures.

tl;dr I think Lubro Moly MOS2 cured my cold engine misfires!!:D :thumbsup:

veli510 12-24-2012 03:01 AM

thansk for checking back good to know

2003silver330i 12-30-2012 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrbusa (Post 15003871)
I know this thread is pretty old, but I thought I'd follow up with some news. The misfires were pretty predictable, and only were happening in colder weather. Also, as long as I didn't get stuck at a light during the warm up period, I wouldn't have any troubles for the rest of the day...

In the past couple years, I've tried, no joke, all of the different 'solutions' for a cold misfire, with no real improvement. Frankly, I didn't want to believe the scored lifter diagnosis.

Fast forward to this winter, and the misfire started happening more and more often and I'd have to sometimes restart the engine 2 or 3 times... not totally unlivable, but bothersome. :hmm: Pricing out cam ledges ($400!), this repair would cost me a minimum of $500 if it was only one side (intake/exhaust on one cylinder) and doing the work myself, but could go upwards of $1500 with replacement of all lifters while I'm in there.... yeah :censor:

So options are 1) live with it or 2) trade it in. One thing I know is that car payments suck :thumbdwn:

So I'm talking to a friend of mine, and he runs Schaeffer oil in his e34 and he says it completely eliminated his lifter tick. He tells me it's loaded with molybdenum. I've heard of that stuff before! so I run out to NAPA and grab a bottle of this for $7: http://www.liquimoly.co.uk/assets/im...cts/8/main.jpg It's almost pure moly in liquid form, and it's gotten some decent reviews on the internet. I usually will not put anything other than M1 0w-40 oil in my crankcase, but I'm desperate... I added 1/2 the bottle, with the logic that I didn't want to mess up the additive package already in the oil.

What do you know? it took about 2 days before there was a real noticeable difference, but since adding it I've had no more misfires!! :craig: Now, it's been 2 weeks in some of the coldest weather of the year, and it's still idling like it's supposed to! I read this stuff stays in your engine, so you really only need it every other oil change. 1/2 bottle every oil change is still pretty manageable. I may try the Schaeffer oil my buddy uses next, to see if it's worth switching to from M1. One thing's for sure, our e85 z4 is getting the other half of this bottle and I'm sending my brother a case for his m3, just as preventative measures.

tl;dr I think Lubro Moly MOS2 cured my cold engine misfires!!:D :thumbsup:

How long have you been running the MOS2 without any misfires?


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