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-   -   Pin-finding for DIY Parrot install (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=586800)

zerodb 06-26-2008 01:25 AM

Pin-finding for DIY Parrot install
 
I know, I know, I should just buy an adapter harness, but the idea drives me crazy when I'm this close.

I've got an '03 ZHP sedan... Business CD (round pin), H/K audio, no nav, factory aux in adapter being used for ipod.

Got a Parrot 3100, so no hope for steering wheel controls, but I would like it to integrate nicely. I searched for several days on here and everywhere else I could look for a good pinout on the wiring harness, figure this can't be THAT tough, right? :tsk:

Anyway, I've got power, ground, the easy stuff. Got the tel mute wire hooked up right. So when I place or receive a call, the radio mutes just like it should. But I can't for the life of me find which pins I should be using to bring the phone audio INTO the business CD. One pinout document I found placed the Phone input pins on the same 10-pin connector as the CD changer interface; another seems to suggest that it should be on the same plug as the aux in (this should be easy since the aux in connector only has 3 pins populated and adding more is much nicer than tapping into existing wires.

But at this point, I've searched my brains out and haven't found a reliable answer so I'm putting myself in your hands. Can anyone tell me where the phone audio should be coming into the head unit? Or am I way off-base here and maybe the phone audio should be feeding into the amp directly somewhere? :censor: I dunno.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

ccfj1 06-26-2008 02:24 AM

You can do it the way you suggest, by using the OEM input for the phone, I'm not 100% sure it will work because if you go that way the OEM HU will also expect to see the "tel-on" signal wire as well as "mute", you can try, here is the pinouts for both type of interfaces

Old 17 round pin
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...17pinesoi8.jpg

So use plug A (x13321)
Pin 3 Phone in -
Pin 8 Phone in +

40 pin quadlock
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...40pinestk8.jpg

So use plug C (x13649)
Pin 6 Phone in -
Pin 12 Phone in +

As you can see the phone input for both these types of interface are on the smaller connector located at the base of the plug.

you will also need the correct pin terminal for the dealers, here is the BMW part # 61.13.0.006.663, you need 2; (you may need to use a dremel to shave a little of the edge of the pin).

Personally, I'd get a cheap telemute lead from eBay and use that.

Good luck

zerodb 06-26-2008 02:26 AM

Brilliant, thanks! Either this will work or I will invest in a proper harness. But it would certainly be nice if it would just work!

zerodb 06-26-2008 02:28 AM

Oh, if it DOES expect to see the "tel-on" signal on that pin, do you know if it needs to be pulled to ground or pulled up (5/12V?) or is it more complicated than that since it looks like that pin could be a speed input as well (though I understand it never actually worked that way).

ccfj1 06-26-2008 02:55 AM

I'm not 100% sure, but I think OEM works like so;

Phone rings, BT picks up call, BT unit sends (pull down to GND) Mute to radio, tel-on sets radio to incoming mode (not sure what happens here, whether is a pull up, pull down or i-bus type info burst), sound then gets input to the radio unit and is then amp'd up and pushed out through the front speakers.

With the OEM setup it appears that the "tel-on" acts like some sort of handshake to prep the radio module for incoming audio.

The speed sensitive input is done via the i-bus wire.

I could of course be talking out my butt, it may work like a charm, you can try it with out the "tel-on" and see what happens.

zerodb 06-26-2008 03:00 AM

sadly, without the "tel-on" I seem to get nothing but a full mute when the Parrot BT activates.

I can't imagine this is a data burst of any kind since several people have made this work with simple adapter harnesses, so I sort of think it must operate off the same pull to ground that activates the mute. but that's a pretty lame guess. harmless to try though, I suppose.

ccfj1 06-26-2008 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodb (Post 8136744)
sadly, without the "tel-on" I seem to get nothing but a full mute when the Parrot BT activates.

Thought you might.

Quote:

I can't imagine this is a data burst of any kind since several people have made this work with simple adapter harnesses,
I think that the adapter harness don't use the OEM input, they just mute the radio then overlay the phones output to the front speakers directly.

Quote:

so I sort of think it must operate off the same pull to ground that activates the mute. but that's a pretty lame guess. harmless to try though, I suppose.
Indeed, If you have a DVM then attach one of the probes to the "tel-on" wire and see what happens, I shouldn't think it will do any harm, ie pulling the wire to ground, like you say worth a try.

zerodb 06-26-2008 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccfj1 (Post 8136861)
Indeed, If you have a DVM then attach one of the probes to the "tel-on" wire and see what happens, I shouldn't think it will do any harm, ie pulling the wire to ground, like you say worth a try.

We were close!

I managed to find one thread on another board that came up on the 5th page of results from a google search - the TEL ON lead needs to see +12V to enable the telephone audio inputs on the head unit.

I of course don't have a 12V lead that is switched at the same time as the Parrot mute lead, but it turns out, the BMW head unit doesn't really mind if you leave the TEL ON switched high all the time! If I turn the stereo volume down really low, I can tell there's some hiss injected from the Parrot unit, so I'll probably put together a quick relay to switch 12V to that input when the Mute lead pulls to ground, but for the moment I've got a system that will work.

I figured I should drop in and mention this because there appears to be no more than one or two individuals in the history of the internet who have actually explained how this works. Hope this does someone some good who is up against the same issue and for one reason or another does not want to use a commercially sold harness.

Summary:

TEL MUTE = Pull to ground
TEL ON = Pull to +12V

If you do BOTH of these things, you will mute all audio sources and enable the telephone input. If you just MUTE, you kill audio sources but get no telephone. If you just activate TEL ON, I suppose you could theoretically just mix your telephone audio into your music, but I can't imagine that being particularly useful for most people. Maybe if you REALLY wanted to let a friend listen to the song that's playing on the radio at that moment. There's an idea. Put a hidden switch on the Mute lead. Just in case.

ccfj1 06-26-2008 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodb (Post 8136911)
We were close!

I managed to find one thread on another board that came up on the 5th page of results from a google search - the TEL ON lead needs to see +12V to enable the telephone audio inputs on the head unit.

I couldn't find anything when i was looking a couple of years ago, when I did my OEM retrofit BT harness.

Quote:

I of course don't have a 12V lead that is switched at the same time as the Parrot mute lead, but it turns out, the BMW head unit doesn't really mind if you leave the TEL ON switched high all the time!
But you could do without the hiss, a switched relay and will sort that out.

Just solder another lead for the "tel-on" from the +12v ign and tie it to the relay and when the mute kicks in switches +12v ign to the "tel-on" pin (10).

That way no need to keep the "tel-on" high or have the relay circuit hot all the time (only when the ignition is on)

Quote:

If I turn the stereo volume down really low, I can tell there's some hiss injected from the Parrot unit, so I'll probably put together a quick relay to switch 12V to that input when the Mute lead pulls to ground, but for the moment I've got a system that will work.
Result, that sounds ideal, you beat me to it :)

Quote:

I figured I should drop in and mention this because there appears to be no more than one or two individuals in the history of the internet who have actually explained how this works. Hope this does someone some good who is up against the same issue and for one reason or another does not want to use a commercially sold harness.

Summary:

TEL MUTE = Pull to ground
TEL ON = Pull to +12V

If you do BOTH of these things, you will mute all audio sources and enable the telephone input. If you just MUTE, you kill audio sources but get no telephone. If you just activate TEL ON, I suppose you could theoretically just mix your telephone audio into your music, but I can't imagine that being particularly useful for most people.
It makes sense the tel-on; the nav system must use this also as the nav instructions can "mix" with the cd/radio etc.

Quote:

Maybe if you REALLY wanted to let a friend listen to the song that's playing on the radio at that moment. There's an idea. Put a hidden switch on the Mute lead. Just in case.
You could, just so you have the option, but as you say not that useful.

Looks like OEM BT can now be used with aftermarket Head Units now then, good find.

Let me know how you get on.

sbddude 02-16-2009 11:19 AM

I just bought a 3100 so I will be attempting this DIY. Can somone try the following for me? What happens if your Business Radio is OFF (press volume knob in), and a call comes in? Can you still hear the call? I want to know because I would be able to pause my ipod by just turning off the radio.

Darkoz 02-20-2009 07:03 AM

Why not save yourself all the hassle and get the Parrot Evolution/Connects2 kit and you'll get OEM functions including steering wheel controls.

sbddude 02-22-2009 05:42 PM

Thank you to everyone in this thread. After a weekend of research and installation, I have the Parrot CK3100 working in my car. Some things to note:

1. I made the Mute, Phone-On, and Tel Audio (+/-) connections in the trunk and used a cat5 cable to run up to the glovebox.
2. I mounted the LCD to the left of the radio using a PCI slot cover bent around the curves in the trim and screwed to the existing bolt behind the wood trim.
3. The blue "brain" of the system is behind the glove box.
4. 12v switched and constant come from the harness under the armrest/console.
5. I tied phone-on to 12v all the time.
6. When the phone is active, my music mutes and the stereo says "PHONE". The Dice Interface does NOT pause. If I turn the radio off, the phone function still works. So if I want to pause my ipod, I just hit the OFF button on the radio when a call comes in.
7. The stock mic does not work with the Parrot system. I used the parrot mic and put it in the stock location.

champ222 07-14-2009 05:32 AM

hi all, sorry to ressurect an old thread, but this is interesting, and it was just the info i was looking for.

firstly, does the tel on / speed signal wire actually do the speed signal stuff? or is it an error in the pinout diagrams? i can pull that to 12v when the phone mute pin is pulled low, thats no problem at all, but does anyone actually know for sure what that cable is doing the rest of the time? ie when the phone system is doing nothing and your driving normally?

secondly, the output from a parrot kit is really designed (as far as i can see) to drive speakers directly, has anyone found it too loud? since this way it is essentially fed into the head unit then amplified again.

thirdly, when wired this was, does the audio from the phone come out the rear speakers as well? or just the front?

excellent info, thanks guys

thxxx 12-01-2009 05:51 PM

Wow, thanks for the original posters of this thread! Exactly what I've been searching for with no avail, you have no idea the weird input into the google search engine which makes this thread pop up. I can also confirm all of this works, and will be looking for put the relay into my circuit, as I can hear a constant ticking when the tel in is wired premanently to 12v switched supply.
Just to add an extra I am using the dension kit to simulate a cd changer and usingthe inputs there.
Cheers for this!
Tom

champ222 12-02-2009 02:54 AM

yeah i got this working too...

excellent stuff... i dont want a speaker relay clicking in front of a 700 amplifier hehe.

the mute signal is the opposite of the signal required to switch in the phone audio.

i tried using a relay to invert this singal, but i had problems of it effecting the ignition live wire that i was using to power the relay, it kept holding it up and 12v through the coil of the relay, which kept the stereo on etc when the ignition was on.... kinda hard to explain really.

in the end, i used a transistor 'as a switch' an inverting switch in fact, i think its one transistor with two resitors. then i wired it into the connects 2 box that i used to interface the parrot with the bmw. seems to work like a charm.

it is amazing how difficult this info is to find lol

gms 12-12-2009 09:33 AM

wauw

This is just what i was looking for, I have an e46 with sat nav system but I think the connections are the same on the BM54 radio module. I need to do this this way because the BM54 has no speaker output and thus a connects2cable wil give the wrong signal to the output of the radio

But why couldn't you do this with a relay, if you buy one with a normally closed contact and connect that to youre tel mute the contact will close when the mute drops to 0V and so drops the relay, then you could send a 12V signal to that normally closed contact.

champ222 12-13-2009 06:17 AM

i may have been having a stupid moment, but i was getting strange behaviour using a relay. give it a go tho, you might have more luck.

i just did it like this:

http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...ingdiagram.gif

works really well.

gms 12-13-2009 08:41 AM

If you say that it doesn't work with a relay i will believe you for it, but I don't know that much of electronics so i would not know what to buy for this setup, Is there not a big difference in transistors and resistors?

So how would i know how to make that?

champ222 12-14-2009 02:44 AM

Resistors - just use anything thats the correct values, 1k ohm, and 10kohm. they are standard values, so they should be easy enough to find.

for the transistor. any NPN transistor will do. for example:

2N2222
2N2219
2N3439

just look for a general purpose low power low frequency NPN transistor.

pretty much anything will work for this purpose, but it must be NPN, Not PNP.

or have a go with the relay and see how you get on

gms 12-14-2009 08:03 AM

I am first going to try with the connects2 harnass but I don't think that this will work with the oem amplifier that sit behind the harnass.

So when that doesn't work i wil try with the relay and see how this goes, the transistor switch is more a last resort.-


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