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-   -   Lowering Springs (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=597739)

vdubkid 08-05-2008 06:21 PM

Lowering Springs
 
Hey fanatics,

I just installed some Moven MVR reps, in eighteen inches. Sitting on stock suspension, the wheel gap is even more unbearable than with the stock rims.

So I'm wondering just how bad is it to only get a set of springs to lower the ride? I know it could possibly mess up the shock rates, but what else could go wrong?

I don't have the money for anything more than springs, so getting a full suspension upgrade is out of the question. I could just leave it be until I can do it right, but I'd like it to at least look good until I can afford something better.

Allure 08-05-2008 06:53 PM

Go with H&R Sport, should be fine with stock shocks. Or you could go with H&R Race for a while and then get new shocks.

vdubkid 08-05-2008 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stankia (Post 8336197)
Go with H&R Sport, should be fine with stock shocks. Or you could go with H&R Race for a while and then get new shocks.

H&R Race, eh?

Ride softness isn't really an issue to me. My dad's got an e60 M5, and the stiffest setting for the EDC is just fine.

I'll check prices though. I'm working with a tight budget.

EDIT: $200 from jlevi, eh? Not bad. But how quickly should I get some shock absorbers?

Allure 08-05-2008 09:27 PM

They should hold at least a year.

vdubkid 08-06-2008 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stankia (Post 8336927)
They should hold at least a year.

Ok, that should give me enough time to get money together for some shocks and the like.

Thanks for the answers.

vdubkid 08-08-2008 11:24 PM

Sorry to keep bumping this, but I'm a noob and don't know anything about the suspension.

In a couple weeks I'll be driving to Maryland from Minnesota, fully loaded for college, and my rear wheels rub with weight on them.

So I need some stiffer springs to prevent rubbing, but I'm worried about getting much lower in the back:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...8/IMG_1928.jpg

The fronts are still ridiculously high though
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...8/IMG_1929.jpg

So would putting some H&R Race springs be a terrible idea, or should I go with their Sport springs? What tools would be needed to install? How much would it cost to pay a shop to do it?

Most importantly, would getting stiffer springs make rubbing more of an issue?

vdubkid 08-09-2008 11:09 AM

Bump. I'd really like to find this stuff out guys. If you can't tell me, could I get an e-mail address of someone that could?

pat 08-09-2008 11:53 AM

So on your sig pic you seem pretty dropped unless that is just a photoshop. You should definitely get H&R Race. If you go sport, you will be disappointed and will end up spending more when upgrading to new shocks and springs. Get race, you shocks will hold up OK for awhile, then upgrade shocks and you are set to go. I think some folks mix the race springs with Koni shocks / struts.

As far as subbing, what kind of offsets did you get? Lowering your car is not going to make your rubbing any better. When you take it in for alignment, let them know you'd like a little more negative camber in the rear as long as it is within spec. This should also help with clearance.

Pat.

vdubkid 08-09-2008 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patroklai (Post 8356141)
So on your sig pic you seem pretty dropped unless that is just a photoshop. You should definitely get H&R Race. If you go sport, you will be disappointed and will end up spending more when upgrading to new shocks and springs. Get race, you shocks will hold up OK for awhile, then upgrade shocks and you are set to go. I think some folks mix the race springs with Koni shocks / struts.

As far as subbing, what kind of offsets did you get? Lowering your car is not going to make your rubbing any better. When you take it in for alignment, let them know you'd like a little more negative camber in the rear as long as it is within spec. This should also help with clearance.

Pat.

Yeah, the sig is photoshopped. That's about where I'd like it to be.

The wheels are et38, and I'm sold on the H&R Race springs.

Will the car definitely need an alignment after I install the shocks? I took it in for one not two weeks ago, and it cost me more than these springs will.

vdubkid 08-09-2008 12:54 PM

And thanks a lot for the answers, by the way.

tiggaatl 08-09-2008 02:01 PM

I would actually suggest the H&R sport springs. I'm on 19's with the stock ZHP shocks, and it's great. I got no gap in the rear, and very very minimal gap in the front. I didn't have to roll my fenders, and I don't rub at all under a full load. If your car is rubbing on the stock set up, then you probably need shock now. Putting race springs on bad shocks is not a good idea. It'll rub even worse. Also, if you're gonna pay someone to install the springs, you should wait, and get shocks and springs done at the same time. It doesn't make sense to pay for labor twice.

maxm50 08-09-2008 02:47 PM

My vote would be move to college, save up, THEN do springs and shocks all at once. That way you don't have to do the labor twice, and you won't have to deal with the worries of rubbing under a load of dormroom stuff.

Rubbing is not so much an issue of ride height as it is wheel/tire geometry. If your wheels and tires will rub at full compression, then it doesn't matter one bit which springs you have. Springs will only change how often you hit that rub point, not whether or not it exists. It should be fixed with fender rolling or different wheels/tires either way.

If it were me, I'd go with the Sport, not Race. The more you slam a car, the less useful it becomes, IMO. And you'll start to really mess with suspension geometry and affect bushing life. Get the sport springs and then get swaybars - that will give you a better handling and more comfortable ride than the Race springs ever would.

But that's just me :)

Edit: Also - asking how long stock dampers will "last" with aftermarket springs is an exercise in futility. You will greatly accelerate the wear rate of the stock dampers, period. Most typical consumers never replace dampers unless they're blown. For those of us that care about the way a car rides and handles and can appreciate the difference between a brand new set of dampers and one with 70k miles on them, we know that they are a wear item just like tires and brakes. If you are going with a lowering spring with a higher than stock spring rate (which it damn well should be), then you need a damper to match. Otherwise you'll have an underdamped suspension and you'll bounce down the freeway like a slammed Civic. And I'll laugh at you. ;) So in conclusion, NO you will probably not "blow" your dampers. YES it will not ride like it should. YES you will not be getting the full benefit of springs without replacing with aftermarket, stiffer dampers. YES you will accelerate the wear of your current dampers until your car rides like a trampoline.

Hope I helped :) Good luck man!

vdubkid 08-09-2008 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggaatl (Post 8356500)
I would actually suggest the H&R sport springs. I'm on 19's with the stock ZHP shocks, and it's great. I got no gap in the rear, and very very minimal gap in the front. I didn't have to roll my fenders, and I don't rub at all under a full load. If your car is rubbing on the stock set up, then you probably need shock now. Putting race springs on bad shocks is not a good idea. It'll rub even worse. Also, if you're gonna pay someone to install the springs, you should wait, and get shocks and springs done at the same time. It doesn't make sense to pay for labor twice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxm50 (Post 8356595)
My vote would be move to college, save up, THEN do springs and shocks all at once. That way you don't have to do the labor twice, and you won't have to deal with the worries of rubbing under a load of dormroom stuff.

Rubbing is not so much an issue of ride height as it is wheel/tire geometry. If your wheels and tires will rub at full compression, then it doesn't matter one bit which springs you have. Springs will only change how often you hit that rub point, not whether or not it exists. It should be fixed with fender rolling or different wheels/tires either way.

If it were me, I'd go with the Sport, not Race. The more you slam a car, the less useful it becomes, IMO. And you'll start to really mess with suspension geometry and affect bushing life. Get the sport springs and then get swaybars - that will give you a better handling and more comfortable ride than the Race springs ever would.

But that's just me :)

Edit: Also - asking how long stock dampers will "last" with aftermarket springs is an exercise in futility. You will greatly accelerate the wear rate of the stock dampers, period. Most typical consumers never replace dampers unless they're blown. For those of us that care about the way a car rides and handles and can appreciate the difference between a brand new set of dampers and one with 70k miles on them, we know that they are a wear item just like tires and brakes. If you are going with a lowering spring with a higher than stock spring rate (which it damn well should be), then you need a damper to match. Otherwise you'll have an underdamped suspension and you'll bounce down the freeway like a slammed Civic. And I'll laugh at you. ;) So in conclusion, NO you will probably not "blow" your dampers. YES it will not ride like it should. YES you will not be getting the full benefit of springs without replacing with aftermarket, stiffer dampers. YES you will accelerate the wear of your current dampers until your car rides like a trampoline.

Hope I helped :) Good luck man!

Alright, wow. Thanks for all the info! I was planning on waiting to do a full suspension upgrade when I can, but I was a bit worried about ride height for my drive to Maryland.

I'll wait to mess with the suspension until I can do it right.

simsima325 08-09-2008 03:53 PM

H&R Cup Kit is only like $550. Get that when you can, and ur set. Ya, no sense in doing anything before you drive MN to MD, enjoy the nice ride for the trip, then lower.

dfjaws 08-09-2008 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simsima325 (Post 8356744)
H&R Cup Kit is only like $550. Get that when you can, and ur set. Ya, no sense in doing anything before you drive MN to MD, enjoy the nice ride for the trip, then lower.

+1 Thats a great setup and not to expensive either! By the way, I grew up in Rochester, MN. I miss that place. :cry:

chanlon7 08-09-2008 04:16 PM

where are u finding the cup kit for 550?

simsima325 08-09-2008 04:49 PM

one of our site sponsors had it at 549 i think. forget who.

maxm50 08-09-2008 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdubkid (Post 8356686)
Alright, wow. Thanks for all the info! I was planning on waiting to do a full suspension upgrade when I can, but I was a bit worried about ride height for my drive to Maryland.

I'll wait to mess with the suspension until I can do it right.

Good decision. I'm currently waiting until after my 2500 mile drive from Ohio back to CA before I install my Koni FSDs and OEM sport springs... and Hotchkis sways. My car will be loaded with all my stuff, too :)

Funny how the rear of a non-sport car rides at what I think is an OK height, but the front just looks way too high. I just put 18" ET38 wheels on my car too, and the wheelgap is killing me too!

Oh, and if a spring/damper change is anything like it was on my Miata, it's definitely a job you'll only want to do once. And if you're paying someone else to do it, it's definitely a job you'll only want to pay for once. :)

pat 08-09-2008 11:35 PM

Spring + shock / strut is a real easy DIY... it's a lot better to get the whole kit if you can. I had the cup kit and it will give you a good balance between sportiness and comfort. When I got it, I bought it from tirerack and it was the cheapest I could find. This was like 2 months ago. To fix your rubbing issue, you need to determine what is rubbing where, etc...

simsima325 08-10-2008 12:30 AM

you could also buy a used set of coilovers, perhaps.


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