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-   -   dropping a s54 into a 330i (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=637844)

SexyDev 01-06-2009 10:29 AM

dropping a s54 into a 330i
 
Is it possible to drop a s54 m3 engine into a 2002 330i? If so what is needed?

akb4 01-06-2009 10:32 AM

323i but same thing..

http://e46.mit.edu/

SexyDev 01-06-2009 10:35 AM

Wow! thanks for the link hahah, well im going to wait until college and maybe if i have the money and the time ill pull that one off :]

akb4 01-06-2009 10:37 AM

good luck, with the money part while in college.. im in college right now and im BROKE! just like every other person going to school.

hoveringuy 01-06-2009 11:15 AM

I know someone that is installing an S54 that will run it with a euro S50 ecu. It will avoid the wiring mess that Mite46 had. Plug and play...

Hoveringuy

www.seattlecircuit.com

SexyDev 01-06-2009 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akb4 (Post 9182383)
good luck, with the money part while in college.. im in college right now and im BROKE! just like every other person going to school.

Well, i have a full ride to OSU and my father is paying dorm and stuff of the sort, so my money will go to gas, parts and food! I am quite lucky on the money end, but enjoy buying and building my own cars, even though i could have my father pay for it all.

Whammy 01-08-2009 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoveringuy (Post 9182581)
I know someone that is installing an S54 that will run it with a euro S50 ecu. It will avoid the wiring mess that Mite46 had. Plug and play...

Hoveringuy

www.seattlecircuit.com

damn :omg:

Bimmer Dude Xi 01-09-2009 05:26 AM

Has anyone tried dropping in a S54 into a E46 Xi?

shock29 01-09-2009 08:36 AM

S54 into an 4WD platform would be :drool:

scottieprada 01-19-2009 09:19 PM

does anybody no what is needed to put a e46 m3 into an 88e30 m3

Stealthwagen 01-19-2009 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoveringuy (Post 9182581)
I know someone that is installing an S54 that will run it with a euro S50 ecu. It will avoid the wiring mess that Mite46 had. Plug and play...

Hoveringuy

www.seattlecircuit.com

Well, I suppose if the newer (S54 engine) will be used in an older-gen car, the backdating may be ....reasonable....and meeting emissions regs & stuff for an OBDI car, or older, will be doable in that case. Will definitely need someone who is comfortable with the electronics/software/firmware on these vehicles. Most importantly how the various modules interact with one another.

Plug & Play? Sure, as long as you have top-notch resources from which to draw. Else it'll be Plug & Pray.

My experience "dropping" the S54 into my E46 wagon was, well, more challenging than expected. Mechanical stuff (my expertise :woot:) was a breeze. As Ben Liaw @ Rogue documented (props to Ben for his advice on my project :bow:), everything pretty much bolts right in. That's the easy part. Making the M3 DME and associated M3 modules work together in a non-M vehicle is a challenge unless you have unlimited funds and can just change everything on a whim, or really, really, know what you're doing.

Remember that the DME, LKM, EWS, Ignition key, Body Control module and Gauge cluster all "talk" to one another over the CAN bus and so must think they belong together (ie. from the same vehicle). They look for S/N and mileage data stored in memory across themselves and it needs to cross-check. Otherwise, no start, or start with CEL's, poor running, etc. Some of this can be taken care of by "re-alignment" of the various units via the GT-1 or MODIC. Some not. Buying "uncoded" modules on a trial and error basis adds up to big $$ quickly. Burning a new "uncoded" DME with the wrong firmware is a $1000 screw-up. Oh, there are now 15 or 20 M3 DME p/n's to choose from in the BMW parts catalog. Trying to figure out which one you need can become a costly exercise. You can make $1000 paperweights in a hurry with one coding error on the GT-1. Then you have to figure out how to deal with signals (read: wires & connectors) that the M3 is looking for that don't exist on the transplant chassis & vice-versa.

So if you are electronically savvy in general and modern automotive CAN-bus system savvy particularly, have access to the specialized BMW diagnostic tools & equipment and to factory service data you can pull it off. Not impossible, but tricky. Far, far from "just drop it in" as so many here seem to think.

Beyond awesome when done of course. :thumbsup:

scottieprada 01-20-2009 11:07 PM

Wow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthwagen (Post 9261313)
Well, I suppose if the newer (S54 engine) will be used in an older-gen car, the backdating may be ....reasonable....and meeting emissions regs & stuff for an OBDI car, or older, will be doable in that case. Will definitely need someone who is comfortable with the electronics/software/firmware on these vehicles. Most importantly how the various modules interact with one another.

Plug & Play? Sure, as long as you have top-notch resources from which to draw. Else it'll be Plug & Pray.

My experience "dropping" the S54 into my E46 wagon was, well, more challenging than expected. Mechanical stuff (my expertise :woot:) was a breeze. As Ben Liaw @ Rogue documented (props to Ben for his advice on my project :bow:), everything pretty much bolts right in. That's the easy part. Making the M3 DME and associated M3 modules work together in a non-M vehicle is a challenge unless you have unlimited funds and can just change everything on a whim, or really, really, know what you're doing.

Remember that the DME, LKM, EWS, Ignition key, Body Control module and Gauge cluster all "talk" to one another over the CAN bus and so must think they belong together (ie. from the same vehicle). They look for S/N and mileage data stored in memory across themselves and it needs to cross-check. Otherwise, no start, or start with CEL's, poor running, etc. Some of this can be taken care of by "re-alignment" of the various units via the GT-1 or MODIC. Some not. Buying "uncoded" modules on a trial and error basis adds up to big $$ quickly. Burning a new "uncoded" DME with the wrong firmware is a $1000 screw-up. Oh, there are now 15 or 20 M3 DME p/n's to choose from in the BMW parts catalog. Trying to figure out which one you need can become a costly exercise. You can make $1000 paperweights in a hurry with one coding error on the GT-1. Then you have to figure out how to deal with signals (read: wires & connectors) that the M3 is looking for that don't exist on the transplant chassis & vice-versa.

So if you are electronically savvy in general and modern automotive CAN-bus system savvy particularly, have access to the specialized BMW diagnostic tools & equipment and to factory service data you can pull it off. Not impossible, but tricky. Far, far from "just drop it in" as so many here seem to think.

Beyond awesome when done of course. :thumbsup:

thanks for the help

dpgrand 01-21-2009 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer Dude Xi (Post 9201720)
Has anyone tried dropping in a S54 into a E46 Xi?

one word - transfer case

hoveringuy 01-21-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthwagen (Post 9261313)
Well, I suppose if the newer (S54 engine) will be used in an older-gen car, the backdating may be ....reasonable....and meeting emissions regs & stuff for an OBDI car, or older, will be doable in that case. Will definitely need someone who is comfortable with the electronics/software/firmware on these vehicles. Most importantly how the various modules interact with one another.

Plug & Play? Sure, as long as you have top-notch resources from which to draw. Else it'll be Plug & Pray.

My experience "dropping" the S54 into my E46 wagon was, well, more challenging than expected. Mechanical stuff (my expertise :woot:) was a breeze. As Ben Liaw @ Rogue documented (props to Ben for his advice on my project :bow:), everything pretty much bolts right in. That's the easy part. Making the M3 DME and associated M3 modules work together in a non-M vehicle is a challenge unless you have unlimited funds and can just change everything on a whim, or really, really, know what you're doing.

Remember that the DME, LKM, EWS, Ignition key, Body Control module and Gauge cluster all "talk" to one another over the CAN bus and so must think they belong together (ie. from the same vehicle). They look for S/N and mileage data stored in memory across themselves and it needs to cross-check. Otherwise, no start, or start with CEL's, poor running, etc. Some of this can be taken care of by "re-alignment" of the various units via the GT-1 or MODIC. Some not. Buying "uncoded" modules on a trial and error basis adds up to big $$ quickly. Burning a new "uncoded" DME with the wrong firmware is a $1000 screw-up. Oh, there are now 15 or 20 M3 DME p/n's to choose from in the BMW parts catalog. Trying to figure out which one you need can become a costly exercise. You can make $1000 paperweights in a hurry with one coding error on the GT-1. Then you have to figure out how to deal with signals (read: wires & connectors) that the M3 is looking for that don't exist on the transplant chassis & vice-versa.

So if you are electronically savvy in general and modern automotive CAN-bus system savvy particularly, have access to the specialized BMW diagnostic tools & equipment and to factory service data you can pull it off. Not impossible, but tricky. Far, far from "just drop it in" as so many here seem to think.

Beyond awesome when done of course. :thumbsup:

I think you've described the most difficult aspect of an S54 swap: the integration of stock contorl modules. They all talk to each other and the S54 ECU is worthless without them.

The beauty of the S50 euro ECU is that it's not as picky. It wants a VR crank signal but the S54 has a Hall sender. I've solved that (www.seattlecircuit.com). It also needs a road speed signal.

Other than that, the basic motor architecture is the same. Dual Vanos, same cam signal wheels, similar displacement, etc.

The swap is in progress and I'm excited to see how it turns out.

Meanwhile, my M54 OBD1 runs great. When I get my standalone VANOS controller dialed-in I expect it to make at least 260hp with 270 possible. Plus, it's ALUMINUM!

It's already making 200 at the wheels on the Dynojet with very basic intake VANOS only and no ECU tuning.

Bryan@Jlevi SW 01-21-2009 04:07 PM

By S50 ECU do you mean the S50B30 DME?
Quote:

Originally Posted by scottieprada (Post 9260644)
does anybody no what is needed to put a e46 m3 into an 88e30 m3

Much of the same mechanical parts you would use for an E30 S5x swap. The difference will be the wiring, which is nuts.

phrozen06 01-21-2009 04:16 PM

http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merc...y_Code=2002WAG

http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merc...y_Code=2003ZHP

Stealthwagen 01-21-2009 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoveringuy (Post 9270241)
I think you've described the most difficult aspect of an S54 swap: the integration of stock contorl modules. They all talk to each other and the S54 ECU is worthless without them.

The beauty of the S50 euro ECU is that it's not as picky. It wants a VR crank signal but the S54 has a Hall sender. I've solved that (www.seattlecircuit.com). It also needs a road speed signal.

Other than that, the basic motor architecture is the same. Dual Vanos, same cam signal wheels, similar displacement, etc.

The swap is in progress and I'm excited to see how it turns out.

Meanwhile, my M54 OBD1 runs great. When I get my standalone VANOS controller dialed-in I expect it to make at least 260hp with 270 possible. Plus, it's ALUMINUM!

It's already making 200 at the wheels on the Dynojet with very basic intake VANOS only and no ECU tuning.

Steve:

Found one of your M54 ->E30 swap thread. Nice work! Lot's of fun bringing these beasts to life, eh? I take it you are the brains behind Seattle Circuits? Looked at the site the other night & like the work you do there too.

You're right about the full OBDII S54 project. It's tricky, but I wanted a vehicle I could drive every day, would be as close to a "factory" car as I could get it, and would pass emissions.

What will your car look like through the OBDI port? By that I mean when you go to get state inspection or emissions certification, I assume the car will come up as an E36 S50. I suppose that's fine. I don't expect most inspection outfits would wonder about that in an OBDII era chassis. Unless they cross-check the chassis S/N.

And I suppose finding a "friendly" inspection station is a possibility if need be.

In any case, props for your undertaking. I always enjoy seeing guys willing do take an innovative path.

I'd like to know more about the SA Vanos setup. How does it extract more poewr than the OE setup? Can you see it being adapted to the S54 and what sort of gains can be expected there? As you know, I'm already at 107 BHP/lit.

Good luck with the project & keep us posted on progress.

Best regards, Todd

hoveringuy 01-21-2009 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthwagen (Post 9271369)
Steve:


What will your car look like through the OBDI port? By that I mean when you go to get state inspection or emissions certification, I assume the car will come up as an E36 S50. I suppose that's fine. I don't expect most inspection outfits would wonder about that in an OBDII era chassis. Unless they cross-check the chassis S/N.

And I suppose finding a "friendly" inspection station is a possibility if need be.

In any case, props for your undertaking. I always enjoy seeing guys willing do take an innovative path.

I'd like to know more about the SA Vanos setup. How does it extract more poewr than the OE setup? Can you see it being adapted to the S54 and what sort of gains can be expected there? As you know, I'm already at 107 BHP/lit.

Good luck with the project & keep us posted on progress.

Best regards, Todd

I'm still active duty military so I haven't worried about emissions yet. Even when I get out I'm in a non-emissions area of Washington State.

That said, with my cat I'm sure the car could pass the sniffer. It's not like I run a radical cam or anything.

One thing I've learned in converting the M54 to OBD1 is that 90% of the effort BMW has made in improving the engine has gone towards economy and emissions. Power is only an added benefit if it doesn't impact the previous.

Case in point: Exhaust VANOS. While it does benefit torque at certain points by reducing pumping losses it was also meant as a way to have internal exhaust gas recirculation. I have heard of substantial gains in M54 power by retuning the VANOS from economy to power. More overlap at higher rpms isn't good for emissions but it sure boosts the power.

I haven't worried too much about developing the actual map yet. I still need to get the basic functionality nailed-down and bullet proof before I start burning time on the dyno.

The S54 has a different VANOS setup than M54. The cam has more sensor elements (7, I think) compared to my 2. The oil pressure is higher and there are two solenoids per cam. My cam takes about 1 1/2 seconds to traverse to full advance at 3000 rpm. I'm sure I could adapt it, however.

I'm as curious to know how it will turn out as you!

ATLZHP6M 02-03-2009 09:18 PM

S54 on ZHP
 
I have some questions for you guys:

I'm considering the S54 swap, however I'd like to keep most of my ZHP parts.
Is it possible to use the ZHP stock diff (3.07) and drive shaft?
Also, could I use the same 6-speed manual tranny on my ZHP?

The exhaust is probably the least of my worries.
If I buy the engine, with the wiring harness, DME, Cluster and keys, what else would I need to do to make this work?

dpgrand 02-04-2009 10:25 AM

Your existing tranny would work, but if you're going to be launching etc (aka being hard on it) know that a s54 packs more power than your m54, and the likelyhood of your tranny dieing is going to go up.


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