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-   -   Gun Fanatics: Problem with AR (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=693131)

JTLaz 07-24-2009 07:20 AM

Gun Fanatics: Problem with AR
 
As you guys know, I recently got my AR. I finally got around to shooting it but had a few problems when doing so. I made sure to oil the gun up and everything before shooting. Half the time, a round would be fired and cycle perfectly fine the other half of the time a round would be fired and the next round wouldn't even cycle into the barrel or it would be caught between the lower receiver and the bolt. I hope you guys can pinpoint the problem so I don't have to take my gun to a local gunsmith. I'm thinking it is either a problem with the gas tube or the gas rings on my bolt (even though they look fine to me).

p.s. I was using Wolf .223 steel case ammo and Magpul magazines

Nt_loader 07-24-2009 07:36 AM

I was using Wolf .223 steel case ammo and Magpul magazines


Thats your problem right there, I would not run that crap in your AR! The wolf ammo with the steel case is dirty and nasty. Go buy yourself some good ammo and you wont have that problem.

JTLaz 07-24-2009 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nt_loader (Post 10351294)
I was using Wolf .223 steel case ammo and Magpul magazines


Thats your problem right there, I would not run that crap in your AR! The wolf ammo with the steel case is dirty and nasty. Go buy yourself some good ammo and you wont have that problem.

:banghead: I bought 500 rounds of it and still have about 400 left

Nt_loader 07-24-2009 07:53 AM

Why do you think its so cheap!

The only gun I would load up with wolf is an AK, you can run mud in them :pimpin:

kevmo 07-24-2009 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nt_loader (Post 10351294)
I was using Wolf .223 steel case ammo and Magpul magazines


Thats your problem right there, I would not run that crap in your AR! The wolf ammo with the steel case is dirty and nasty. Go buy yourself some good ammo and you wont have that problem.

there is absolutly NOTHING wrong with wolf... my AR eats that shyt up...

though i wouldnt use it to shoot for accuracy on anything over 100 yards...

Rush4theYehO 07-24-2009 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nt_loader (Post 10351294)
I was using Wolf .223 steel case ammo and Magpul magazines


Thats your problem right there, I would not run that crap in your AR! The wolf ammo with the steel case is dirty and nasty. Go buy yourself some good ammo and you wont have that problem.

Disagree, people blame wolf - I have NEVER seen a gun blow up using that Ruskie ammo. Cheap, dirty, smelly: absolutely. If your gun can't digest wolf, you got a problem there. I wouldn't be able to know the problem without seeing it, you got pictures?

BeRzErKaS 07-24-2009 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nt_loader (Post 10351294)
I was using Wolf .223 steel case ammo and Magpul magazines


Thats your problem right there, I would not run that crap in your AR! The wolf ammo with the steel case is dirty and nasty. Go buy yourself some good ammo and you wont have that problem.


Agreed. It's the ammo.

Your gun is "half cycling" or "short cycling". The bolt isn't travelling back far enough to reset everything and grab another round. You made two big mistakes.

The first, buying bottom shelf ammo whose powder load tends to vary due to poor quality control standards. Sometimes you simply get a weak round which doesn't have enough energy to compress the buffer spring and cycle the heavy bolt carrier assembly completey resulting in jams and misfires.

The second mistake is firing low velocity, steel cased ammo in a brand new AR. Your buffer and ejector springs are very stiff when new. Firing the cheap stuff in a new gun will only INCREASE the liklihood of shortcycling, jams, and failures-to-eject. You normally want use high quality ammo, operating at full potential, to get everything broken in.

Once all your mechanisims are broken in the cheap stuff should cycle fine.

oofie 07-24-2009 08:25 AM

Make sure the gas carrier kay isnt loose, and make sure it is staked properly. I had this problem when my carrier key became loose, turns out it wasnt staked properly. After staking it with a MOACKS took, its been problem free.

clusive 07-24-2009 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oofie (Post 10351390)
Make sure the gas carrier kay isnt loose, and make sure it is staked properly. I had this problem when my carrier key became loose, turns out it wasnt staked properly. After staking it with a MOACKS took, its been problem free.

:werd: Also make sure your gas tube isn't kinked/bent. Try shooting with some higher quality ammo to see if the problems go away.

Nt_loader 07-24-2009 09:09 AM

The steel case will expand and contract causing malfunctions.

Reedo302 07-24-2009 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtmoney2k27 (Post 10351268)

p.s. I was using Wolf .223 steel case ammo and Magpul magazines

As soon as I saw what the problem was, I immediately thought about what ammo you were using and thought that you were probably using steel cased ammo. Then you said you were at the bottom. The Wolf is the problem.

What happens when you shoot normal brass?


Quote:

Originally Posted by kevmo (Post 10351336)
there is absolutly NOTHING wrong with wolf... my AR eats that shyt up...

though i wouldnt use it to shoot for accuracy on anything over 100 yards...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rush4theYehO (Post 10351367)
Disagree, people blame wolf - I have NEVER seen a gun blow up using that Ruskie ammo. Cheap, dirty, smelly: absolutely. If your gun can't digest wolf, you got a problem there. I wouldn't be able to know the problem without seeing it, you got pictures?

The Ammo most likely IS the problem. See below.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nt_loader (Post 10351517)
The steel case will expand and contract causing malfunctions.

The steel case will expand quickly due to the heat. Whenever ANY cartridge fires a round, the cartridge expands in the chamber. Brass, nickel and aluminum cartridges are malleable metals (soft), so when the round is cycled out, it will contract in size easily as it cools and the round is able to be basically "pried" out of the chamber using the bolt extractor.
Steel is not very malleable in terms of ammunition specs. The ammunition expands, but does not contract very much. Steel case ammunition is often known to expand to the point where it will lodge in the chamber and not come out. People have had extractors tear the entire back end of the cartridge off because of this issue.
The US military will not use steel cartridge ammunition for this reason. The reason why it works well in AKs is because AKs have a larger chamber and are designed to fire those specific cartridges.
The reason why the ammo cycles well in some ARs is because each manufacturer has different specs to their chambers and some may be slightly larger. If the AR is chambered for 5.56x45mm NATO, it would be more prone to easier cycling of the steel case ammo since the 5.56 is basically a .223 with a thicker cartridge wall. If the AR is chambered for .223 specifically, there's more propensity for failure since the chamber will be microscopically smaller.

Steel case ammo is basically like playing Russian roulette. Eventually you'll get burned. If you have never had a problem and you've shot thousands of rounds, then keep going I guess. But if you're experiencing problems, dump that crap.

A perfect example: If you ask a manufacturer whether they would use the steel case ammo, many will tell you specifically not to. Springfield Armory and several other companies have actually stated that you are not to use any steel case ammunition in their weapons, or they will not warranty the weapon if something happens.

budman 07-24-2009 10:43 AM

Agree with everyone that your ammo sucks..

russ330 07-24-2009 10:56 AM

/Moved to Gun Forum.






Oh wait. :(

david05111 07-24-2009 12:06 PM

Wow everything I was going to say has been said. Well done gents.

Go to your gun store and buy 20 rounds of fiocchi or pmc brass...I'll be very surprised if you have a problem with any of those 20 shots.

K:^P 07-24-2009 01:03 PM

Make sure to clean out the whole AR include the gas piping then try some new ammo and get back to us.

JTLaz 07-24-2009 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K:^P (Post 10352643)
Make sure to clean out the whole AR include the gas piping then try some new ammo and get back to us.

How should I go about doing this?

oofie 07-24-2009 02:22 PM

Were you able to check the carrier key? Make sure the two screws are torqued properly. If it moves even a little, you can use loctite and tighten it as much as you can with an allen wrench.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...arriers004.jpg

kevmo 07-24-2009 02:37 PM

i guess maybe that's y my AR eats it up.. chambers 5.56 nato ...

i've only had ONE misfire out of prob 2 cases...

although when i shoot @ 200+ yards i use some TAP or at least some brass prvi or something

E46325Ci 07-24-2009 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budman (Post 10351904)
Agree with everyone that your ammo sucks..

:lmao:

3erdriver 07-24-2009 03:47 PM

It is your ammo. Some AR's eat up WOLF, most do not. While what someone said above about the steel case is true, it's not the entire reason. The reason ammo is typically made from Brass is because it's softer than the material the gun is made of...so it doesn't scratch the gun...instead the gun scratches the ammo...steel casings can damage the gun so they coat the steel with this polymer. It's changed since WOLF came on the market...but it's still a problem. that stuff heats up and melts off and REALLY fouls the internal badly.

My first AR I did the same thing, I bought WOLF and after about 75 rounds the bolt was so gunked up that it didn't properly blow back, the chamber had too much pressure and the round expanded in the chamber and jammed the gun...it took a hammer and a cleaning rod to jam it out...the bolt was never the same, I couldn't get all of the gunk off...

it's always better to use real brass cased ammo...it will save you $$ in the long run.

EDIT: my AR that f-ed up was a 5.56 chamber...it's the coating of the steel case


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