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-   -   Best exhaust for hp gain/not too loud? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=740998)

eddiewolfgang 02-13-2010 01:29 AM

Best exhaust for hp gain/not too loud?
 
I'm looking to upgrade the exhaust system. What's a good cat back exhaust that will not be loud as hell to wake up the dead, but keep the bmw sweet tune?

lllSupra 02-13-2010 01:33 AM

uuc tse3 light, or magnaflow are best

eddiewolfgang 02-13-2010 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lllSupra (Post 11317786)
uuc tse3 light, or magnaflow are best

what about borla? iv'e seen some youtube videos and they sound sweet
Borla exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feyn9ahSqbU

Magnaflow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnyuDYn4QtE

is UUC TSE3 just for the sound only no hp gain? :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2TA6RFf6Qo

98mustangguy 02-13-2010 05:48 AM

I have borla on my audi and had it on my 98 cobra. I can't say enough good things about them. Fit,finish,sound is second to none. And all that for less than half these overpriced systems that include nothing but a muffler you get an actuall full catback, in i believe 304 stainless which is a heavy guage and covered by a million mile/lifetime warranty. I dont have on on the bimmer yet, but as far as the audi and stang they have NO drone and a nice throaty sound. Personally one is going on the bimmer this summer. Borla has an extensive history in racing and knows how to build a quality product. I would go Borla or magnaflow full catback before i even thought about listening to a sound clip of one of these other ridiculously overpriced muffler only systems.

98mustangguy 02-13-2010 05:54 AM

Ohh btw you will not gain much of anything on a stock car with ANY exhaust. Mostly they will only be for sound quality and in some cases if you lose too much back pressure on a non turbo-charged car you can actually lose some power. But once again you are looking under 10 horse or so so its not really anything noticable. If you are replacing looking for hp gains you will be dissappointed and would probably get better gain say doing a tune up with new plugs and o2's and air filter. Now if you had say a turbo on your car exhaust could give a nice gain by reducing backpressure allowing it to spool faster moving your power band down lower in the rpm band.

Edison@JleviSW 02-13-2010 12:49 PM

Highline Tuning Cat Back Exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDxITAS1BXs

xixixi 02-14-2010 10:37 AM

skip the exhaust get headers if you want any gain. exhaust bmw did good from the factory headers.. not so much

330cirider 02-14-2010 07:38 PM

headers

johnnyalbs5 02-14-2010 07:44 PM

magnaflow, borla or highline is the way to go. These 3 sound the best

Iceman00 02-14-2010 08:44 PM

How is this question asked every week. The catback you can buy are usually muffers and don't do ****.
A Single pipe exhaust, with the Y as close to the header as possible is the best option for performance. PERIOD.

Edison@JleviSW 02-15-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman00 (Post 11323530)
How is this question asked every week. The catback you can buy are usually muffers and don't do ****.
A Single pipe exhaust, with the Y as close to the header as possible is the best option for performance. PERIOD.

Sort of, depends on the setup really. BMW originally designed the E46 (323/328) models with a single pipe outlet. They switch to dual piping for better flow and performance. Unless you can squeeze a single pipe that is larger than the combination of dual pipes underneath the car, it won't be better than the dual pipe cat backs available.

Furthermore, Y pipes will only add to congestion, I would avoid this setup as much as possible. I would rather have straight flowing dual piping than a Y pipe into a single pipe any day.

2000_328CI 02-15-2010 12:53 PM

Muffler delete. Sounds nice and saves weight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofYhRq0T3eI

Just chop the piping after the second resonator (in other words, keep both of them), run a pipe in place of the muffler to the back of the car, and weld on tips of your choice. :hi:

Iceman00 02-15-2010 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick@Jlevi SW (Post 11326149)
Sort of, depends on the setup really. BMW originally designed the E46 (323/328) models with a single pipe outlet. They switch to dual piping for better flow and performance. Unless you can squeeze a single pipe that is larger than the combination of dual pipes underneath the car, it won't be better than the dual pipe cat backs available.

Furthermore, Y pipes will only add to congestion, I would avoid this setup as much as possible. I would rather have straight flowing dual piping than a Y pipe into a single pipe any day.

To be honest, I wasn't asking, I was telling. I posted a on this subject more than a few times, and have a couple of dynos to support my assertion, as well as people from Burns Stainless (you know who they are, right) a high hp build, and a few race teams who exclusively use single exhaust, but, feel free to argue a losing battle.

khbiesfd 02-15-2010 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman00 (Post 11327106)
To be honest, I wasn't asking, I was telling. I posted a on this subject more than a few times, and have a couple of dynos to support my assertion, as well as people from Burns Stainless (you know who they are, right) a high hp build, and a few race teams who exclusively use single exhaust in agreement with me, feel free to argue a losing battle though.

Are you sure? Not trying to piss you off. Just want to make sure. So if this is the case than what kind of rear muffler would be the best? Or does it not matter? Would it be okay to a straigt pipes all the way after the y pipe, or no?

Iceman00 02-15-2010 03:49 PM

Just so you know I'm not full of ****, I DARE you to find an exhaust on any E36 M3 that makes more than 5whp. It doesn't happen, because they all have the same basic design: Dual pipes from the collector with no merger, or a merger that is to far down stream:

Here is a dyno of AA's full 3" single exhaust on an M3
http://www.modbargains.com/images/Pr...ust%20Dyno.jpg

Here is another:
http://image.eurotuner.com/f/2676209...project+hp.jpg

We can infer that if an M3, with a supposedly better tuned exhaust system benefits from a single pipe system, shouldn't a Non M? Well yes, and it has little to do with 3" exhaust pipes:

First we have to realize that Y pipe is a merger that actually promotes savaging (you know, that thing that people confise with backpressure all the time) scavenging is good, because it helps pull the spent exhaust gasess out of the car.

Read what Tony of Motordyne has to say:

"For any system "Y-back" you can't have too large of tubing. There is no compromise of TQ by going larger and larger. With one exception, the only thing a Y-back can do is "potentially" reduce HP if there is excessive back pressure. The one exception would be a diffuser or megaphone which can reduce pressure drop below that of an open pipe.

TQ is determined by the diameter of tubing upstream of the end of the Y-pipe. So in other words, TQ is determined by the Y-pipe primary diameters and a few inches past the merge collector."


In other words, all the power is made at the Y pipe, and a few inches afterwards. It doesn't matter the pipe of the muffler you use (so long as it doesn't increase backpressure)

aggieE46 02-15-2010 03:58 PM

Been hanging around on my350z? :) I put a MD spacer on a buddy's car a couple months ago. The MD exhausts are sick...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman00 (Post 11327246)
Just so you know I'm not full of ****, I DARE you to find an exhaust on any E36 M3 that makes more than 5whp. It doesn't happen, because they all have the same basic design: Dual pipes from the collector with no merger, or a merger that is to far down stream:

Here is a dyno of AA's full 3" single exhaust on an M3
http://www.modbargains.com/images/Pr...ust%20Dyno.jpg

Here is another:
http://image.eurotuner.com/f/2676209...project+hp.jpg

We can infer that if an M3, with a supposedly better tuned exhaust system benefits from a single pipe system, shouldn't a Non M? Well yes, and it has little to do with 3" exhaust pipes:

First we have to realize that Y pipe is a merger that actually promotes savaging (you know, that thing that people confise with backpressure all the time) scavenging is good, because it helps pull the spent exhaust gasess out of the car.

Read what Tony of Motordyne has to say:

"For any system "Y-back" you can't have too large of tubing. There is no compromise of TQ by going larger and larger. With one exception, the only thing a Y-back can do is "potentially" reduce HP if there is excessive back pressure. The one exception would be a diffuser or megaphone which can reduce pressure drop below that of an open pipe.

TQ is determined by the diameter of tubing upstream of the end of the Y-pipe. So in other words, TQ is determined by the Y-pipe primary diameters and a few inches past the merge collector."


In other words, all the power is made at the Y pipe, and a few inches afterwards. It doesn't matter the pipe of the muffler you use (so long as it doesn't increase backpressure)


lllSupra 02-15-2010 03:58 PM

Y pipe increases back pressure and congestion I dont care what internet people say ask any real person with an engine building background and they will tell you...its common sense at that. Best sounding exhaust would be the UUC TSE3 no doubt. But you can belive what you want or you could call bmw and ask them why they switched to twin pipes :4ngie:

khbiesfd 02-15-2010 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman00 (Post 11327246)
Just so you know I'm not full of ****, I DARE you to find an exhaust on any E36 M3 that makes more than 5whp. It doesn't happen, because they all have the same basic design: Dual pipes from the collector with no merger, or a merger that is to far down stream:

Here is a dyno of AA's full 3" single exhaust on an M3
http://www.modbargains.com/images/Pr...ust%20Dyno.jpg

Here is another:
http://image.eurotuner.com/f/2676209...project+hp.jpg

We can infer that if an M3, with a supposedly better tuned exhaust system benefits from a single pipe system, shouldn't a Non M? Well yes, and it has little to do with 3" exhaust pipes:

First we have to realize that Y pipe is a merger that actually promotes savaging (you know, that thing that people confise with backpressure all the time) scavenging is good, because it helps pull the spent exhaust gasess out of the car.

Read what Tony of Motordyne has to say:

"For any system "Y-back" you can't have too large of tubing. There is no compromise of TQ by going larger and larger. With one exception, the only thing a Y-back can do is "potentially" reduce HP if there is excessive back pressure. The one exception would be a diffuser or megaphone which can reduce pressure drop below that of an open pipe.

TQ is determined by the diameter of tubing upstream of the end of the Y-pipe. So in other words, TQ is determined by the Y-pipe primary diameters and a few inches past the merge collector."


In other words, all the power is made at the Y pipe, and a few inches afterwards. It doesn't matter the pipe of the muffler you use (so long as it doesn't increase backpressure)

Whoa! No need to get defensive! I never said you were full of ****. I was just asking a simply question, so cool it. And thanks for your insight. Can you post a video of how it would sound?

Iceman00 02-15-2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lllSupra (Post 11327302)
Y pipe increases back pressure and congestion I dont care what internet people say ask any real person with an engine building background and they will tell you...its common sense at that. Best sounding exhaust would be the UUC TSE3 no doubt. But you can belive what you want or you could call bmw and ask them why they switched to twin pipes :4ngie:


**** You are Stupid. Normally, I would allow you to wrap the rope around your own neck, and hang yourself, but I'm so irritated with you right now, I'm just going to make you look like the asshat you are in front of everyone.

BMW had twin pipes on the E36 M3, which I referenced as a dyno above, and switching with a full single exhaust system (And I doubt it had a "tuned" Y pipe) netted 17whp. Find me another twin pipe exhaust system that does that.

****, you can ask PEI330 Why he chose a single pipe exhaust on his build. Using your rational of course, he probably did it to purposely sabotage himself.

You being an idiot is besides the point to this discussion, so I'm going to humor everyone else, and PROVE that you are a dipshit.

http://my350z.com/forum/members/sgsa...oking-back.jpg

Wait...is that the Koni Challenge 350Z race car with a Single exhaust...couldn't be. Apparently, a dispshit ***** on the forums has access to his own dyno, and has dyno tested and concluded that that exhaust is rubbish, because...well, he knows better than a race team.

"The 3.5" exhaust absolutely dominated the 2.5" exhaust that was on the car previously. This was the biggest find of the day. Since we were testing two new components at once (headers and new exhaust) we had to find a way to fit our old 2.5" exhaust that was on the car previously to really quanitfy the changes from the headers. We ended up mounting our dual exhaust upside down to make it fit with our y-pipe (don't ask how it worked, but it did!), and saw incredible torque losses with the dual exhaust compared to the single. A good x-pipe would have helped this dual exhaust, but I am still a believer that a single exhaust will always make the most power.

Whoever previously created this custom exhaust did no reasearch what so ever and the results showed it. Not only did the car sound horrible, the midrange power had losses of over 50 FT LBS OF TORQUE!!!! FIFTY!! It almost matched the top end power, lacking only a few hp, but it was the midrange where it was incredibly bad. Just wait until you see the dyno tommorow, it just goes to show how much science there really is in intake and exhaust tuning."
-Sasha on a dual 2.5 system vs a 3.5 single exhaust for his race car.

http://www.ziptied.com/Coppermine/al...exhvssgexh.JPG

"Finally, a plot showing how inefficient the previous exhaust was. This is both with our headers, but the lower plot the dual 2.5" h-pipe exhaust and the other our 3.5" race exhaust

These tests were done on our Koni Challenge Race car, which is entirely stock engine wise with the exception of Nismo's most mild cam (R-Tune North American cams), and a Tilton clutch and flywheel (thats why it revs and sounds so wild). Intake is Injen with a BPI flowstack but will soon be re-done to 3.5" after 13" of tube length. The engine also has a motordyne spacer, that is it! Stock heads, block, compression, intake manifold & collector etc."

Iceman00 02-15-2010 09:21 PM

Ops, forgot the link.
http://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/39...oadster-5.html


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