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-   -   Subwoofer Location (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=75469)

rashishi 04-06-2003 02:23 PM

Subwoofer Location
 
Gentlemen, the problem of placement of subs has been bothering me since I decided to upgrade my factory HK system. I have seen different posts and many pictures of very creative ways to design a bass system. From the JL Stealthbox to using the tire-well as an enclosure to using the rear quaterpanel and fiberglass... I've seen just about everything. This weekend, as an experiment, I connected a PhoenixGold Tantrum 500 amp to the radio and I had an old Kicker Solo 12" around and I played around with placing it in different places in my trunk, here are the results:

directly facing the rear seats: sounds terrible
Near the rear quaterpanel: Sounds excellent when seat is down
behind the rear facing trunk: Also sounds good, when seat is down

But when the seats are up, the bass disappears. Instead of hearing bass as part of the music, it sounds like there's a sub in the trunk trying to kick its way out.

I want those sound waves to enter the cabin cleanly, I want to feel the air moving around my face when the bass hits.

Talking to a local shop, they suggested two 10" free airs in the deck. Something like these pics:
http://www.cartunes.com/installs/bmw...m3/sub_box.jpg
http://www.cartunes.com/installs/bmw.../bmwbefore.jpg

This installation would involve some minor cutting. Has anyone here done this? If so, how was it?

russ330 04-06-2003 03:14 PM

That looks like an awesome solution. Takes up very little trunk space. You can still fold the seats down. I wonder if it'll hit hard though :confused:

SpaceMonkey 04-06-2003 07:34 PM

Re: Subwoofer Location
 
Quote:

Originally posted by rashishi
Talking to a local shop, they suggested two 10" free airs in the deck. This installation would involve some minor cutting. Has anyone here done this? If so, how was it?
I just had a custom box built at Rich's Car Tunes, where those pictures are from. Is this where you are going? From my experience, they do phenomenal work. They are perfectionists, and I can't recommend them highly enough.

They built my box for a JL 12w3 over where the battery goes.

rashishi 04-07-2003 12:49 AM

I talked briefly to the guys at Rich's. They do have a good reputation. I've also spoken to the guys at Sound-in-Motion. SpaceMonkey, how did your box work out? Did the bass blend in well or did it sound distant?

glass330 04-07-2003 12:55 PM

i took out the rear speakers, you dont really need them in a coupe to begin with - i have a diamond tdx 12" with a 1200 watt diamond d5 class d amp and i hits very loud

glass330 04-07-2003 12:57 PM

i used whats called a "hooker" box - just a pre-fab box and i still have room for a cooler in the trunk! - i also have diamond hex 6.5" components in the doors with an 800 watt eclipse amp - sounds incredible with eclipse cd player

rashishi 04-07-2003 03:31 PM

How does your hooker box work? Are the firing directly through the rear holes? Or is it just sitting in the trunk?
Thanks,

drgalleg 04-07-2003 03:44 PM

Re: Subwoofer Location
 
Well since you're familiar with the stealthboxes, you'll notice this is the exact same solution, except instead of using the existing rear deck speaker holes, they'll probably either expand on those holes or just drill out a new one.

The bass response will be MUCH better than the sub-in-the-trunk solution simply because the woofer will be firing directly into the cabin. The bass will bounce off the rear window. Make sure to dynamat your rear deck, but there's no need to dynamat the drunk.

Bad note: As i've started to notice w/ the stealths - while bass is typically OMNIDIRECTIONAL, the fact that the woofers are physically located inside the cabin and firing behind the front component speakers, it messes up the imaging a bit. I'm trying to fix this by tweaking the crossovers and trying to bring a stronger midbass up front. I believe if I reserve the stealths to only freq. lower than 70hz, it should mask this effect.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Quote:

Originally posted by rashishi

I want those sound waves to enter the cabin cleanly, I want to feel the air moving around my face when the bass hits.

Talking to a local shop, they suggested two 10" free airs in the deck. Something like these pics:
[This installation would involve some minor cutting. Has anyone here done this? If so, how was it?


DOO 04-07-2003 07:18 PM

I have a custom box with a single solo baric. i can still access the spare and i has plenty of trunk space.

zameus 04-09-2003 04:43 PM

Has anyone tried building a box to fire through the skipass directly into the cabin? Sealing the front of the box to the back of the seatpanel to avoid cancellation?

I'm thinking one could use 1 or 2 of the nicer 8" subs (ID8 or the new 8W7). and use wingnuts on flanges or something to attach it so it can be moved if you need to use the skipass. With that size you could keep it under 9 1/2" in depth and have full access to your spare without having to move it if you got a flat (when you would least like to be messing with your sub enclosure).

Any thoughts on this?

rashishi 04-09-2003 10:19 PM

drgalleg, I would imagine running into those problems with the Stealthbox, but cutting it down to 70hz, can those little things handle those frequencies at loud volumes well?

Zameus, you're better with one 10" instead of two 8". Since the 10 has greater excursion, it will go deeper than the 8's. Plus the volume will be the same.

rashishi 04-09-2003 10:25 PM

For my purposes, I'm not going for flashy. Don't get me wrong we all appreciate aesthetics or we wouldn't be driving the cars that we do but I don't want something thats just cool to look at. It should also be functional. I think that putting a ton of power and a monstrous sub is the wrong way to go. There has to be a more elegant way to bring the bass into the car. I think that since the trunk is well sealed, my best bet may be the free-air 10's or 10.

zameus 04-09-2003 10:31 PM

I know a 10" would sound better than an 8" if they were both sealed in a trunk but I'm thinking an 8" could fire through the skipass without any of the surface area being blocked and causing soundwaves to bounce back possibly causing cancellation. It's got to be a cleaner sound than corner loading. Of course free air 10's or stealthboxes use the same idea (firing into the cabinet rather than eminating from the trunk).

Ryan84 04-09-2003 10:37 PM

well ill let ya know what i did.. for speakers i took out my hk and went with polk audio and hooked them up to a memphis 600 watts... i bought a second memphis 300watt for my 12' in a port box facing the trunk... ( in GA they are called a VT box..) i dunno about cali.. now now i know its not bling bling but i gave myself a long enough cord to remove my box from the trunk space and still have my spare tire.. which you wouldnt have if u used this space or used a fiberglass cover... however thats jsut what i did and it sounds great..

zameus 04-09-2003 10:54 PM

Does it vibrate the hairs on your arm when the lower frequencies hit? Cause that's what I truly want. I mean , I listen to all kinds of music and in many cases just filling in the lows is enough but when I do listen to rap or hip hop I want it to boom.
So are you saying you faced your 12" towards the rear bumper or towards the cabin?

Ryan84 04-09-2003 11:14 PM

it rumbles the little hairs on the back of my head and makes it feel werid.. ROFL its great for hip-pop and rap and all other types of music.. i mostly have it setup for sound quality.. but i had a bass knob installed and it is great.. its just big and i dont have alot of trunk space but i do not use my trunk.. im 19 and spoiled myself..

Ryan84 04-09-2003 11:15 PM

oh and it is facing toward the rear bumber.. but i had to have some dynamite placed behind trunk and license.. because it will make slight noise.. but other than that im happy with mine.. :)

spr0cket 04-10-2003 04:10 AM

The JL 8" drivers have a lower FS and also greater excurison capabilities than the 10" or 12" drivers in the same range.

The 8" driver has a resonant frequency of just below 40 Hz the big difference in output level is due to the cone size and resultant piston area - hence the greater efficiency of the larger drivers.

I run the 8" stealths up to 80Hz, but with a steep 36dB slope on them to stop the image of the bass drifting rearward. If using a shallower slope around 12 or 24 then I'd go no higher than 65 Hz with them. But they'll reah all the way down to mid 30Hz with no trouble.

drgalleg 04-10-2003 10:06 AM

Thanks for the informative post - I'll try to get a steeper xover going on them to see if it fixes the imaging. Right now, I'm using a 24db slope low pass at 120hz from the JL Amp.

They sound fine to me going all the way to about 45-50hz.

Quote:

Originally posted by spr0cket
The JL 8" drivers have a lower FS and also greater excurison capabilities than the 10" or 12" drivers in the same range.

The 8" driver has a resonant frequency of just below 40 Hz the big difference in output level is due to the cone size and resultant piston area - hence the greater efficiency of the larger drivers.

I run the 8" stealths up to 80Hz, but with a steep 36dB slope on them to stop the image of the bass drifting rearward. If using a shallower slope around 12 or 24 then I'd go no higher than 65 Hz with them. But they'll reah all the way down to mid 30Hz with no trouble.



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