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-   -   P1188, P1189, etc Codes Fixed Easily (1 Oil Separator Hose) (*Pics*) (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=773551)

gsbmw 06-23-2010 05:11 AM

P1188, P1189, etc Codes Fixed Easily (1 Oil Separator Hose) (*Pics*)
 
1 Attachment(s)
For some time, I have had these codes with the SES light on:
P1188
P1189

Usually, but not always, with one or more of these codes:
P1250 (especially this one)
P0170 (P0171 on M54 & M56 engines)
P0173 (P0174 on M54 & M56 engines)
P0150
P0130

Freeze frame data on my scanner recorded lean conditions at idle, such as:
STFT B1: 18.75%
LTFT B1: 8.59%
STFT B2: 17.97%
LTFT B2: 8.59%

Bottom line: it was the easily accessible, and commonly broken, lower oil separator vent hose. Here is the story...

Only symptom was a slightly rough idle just after start-up, but idle okay when warm (people in colder climates may have more severe symptoms, however). Usually these codes denote a problem with a vacuum leak, probably either due to a crack(s) in the large rubber air intake boots between the MAF sensor and the engine block or due to a problem with the oil separator (also known as the pressure regulating valve, crankcase ventilation valve [CCV, CVV], PCV valve, cyclone separator [some spell it "seperator"], etc) or its 4 associated vent hoses. In my case, the intake boots were okay (checked during a very recent intake control valve (ICV) cleaning). I did not have any "chewbacca/walrus" noises coming from the engine when the oil filler cap was removed at idle, which would be evidence of a bad oil separator itself. Since many people find a broken lower oil separator hose (the one that goes to the oil dipstick tube) during their oil separator replacements, I decided to check this hose first.

I found that it was indeed broken just below the oil separator in the usual spot. Replacement of this one hose fixed all my codes and service engine light (it's been ~2 weeks now), and finally allowed me to get my smog inspection! :woot: The BMW part number is 11157532649, which I think is correct for all E46 models except the 316, 318 and M3 (but check it on realoem.com or parts company websites for your particular car). The hose with pinch clip connector is only about $10 from your favorite online parts company. The hose is part #4 in picture #4 (oil separator is part #1; picture from realoem.com), although the shape of the hose is not curved as shown, but rather is straight with a plastic angled elbow at the oil separator end.

I strongly suggest that people who are thinking of replacing their oil separator (a big job) to check this hose first -- it could save (or at least postpone a few years) you a LOT of time and trouble. It's an easy and fast replacement. This hose can be checked visually and replaced after removing only the air filter box and MAF, if you know where to look (a light helps). The attached pictures should help you locate it. This hose has one of those pinch-clip connectors at the connection to the oil separator, so just squeeze it to disconnect (check your new hose if you're not familiar with these). The lower part just has a friction connection to the oil dipstick tube (some silicone lube will help you connect this end). No need to remove the dipstick tube. You can also view and work with the hose/dipstick connection from beneath with the splash pan removed.

When I replaced mine, I had first removed the braid-covered hose (the large one in all of these pictures) from the steering fluid reservoir, because it was causing a steering fluid leak (separate issue). This gave me more room to work, but I think you can push things (wires, tubes) out of the way as you work your hand in there without removing this steering fluid hose. If not, you can always unbolt the steering fluid reservoir and tilt it and its hose out of the way (after removing some reservoir fluid with a turkey baster if necessary).

For reference, my car is 10 years old but only has ~60,000 mi.

Pic #1: General area of lower oil separator hose location.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/picture...ictureid=12626

Pic #2: Closeup showing break in hose.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/picture...ictureid=12627

Pic #3: A closer closeup showing break in hose.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/picture...ictureid=12628

Attached Pic #4: Realoem.com diagram of oil separator system.

Freedman 06-23-2010 10:54 AM

Nice work gsbmw. I like the idea of saving money by fixing the exact problem. I'm having a hard time though visualizing the position of the break even with pictures. Is it possible to show the labels on slide 4 the realoem. thumbnail? BTW, the photos are some of the best I've seen. Since I still have a lot to learn can you explain how you did that fantastic labeling, arrows and circles? I'm headed to the garage to try to check that hose you replaced.

95dime 06-23-2010 12:22 PM

i had got the those codes before (1188 and 1189) when i was using a mac obd2 reader. i have since been using a peake code reader and am getting a o2 sensor adapt. limit for both banks. would this be the same code? im gonna check this as soon as i get out of work. car runs fine, every once in a while itll skip a half second where the idle dips 100 rpm or so. thanks for pointing this out.

gsbmw 06-23-2010 03:53 PM

Freedman, I'm attaching a new picture that should clear things up and is more representative of the real thing than the realoem figure.

Thanks for the picture compliments. I did these in Microsoft PowerPoint (their slide-making program) by just inserting the pictures and then adding arrows, circles, text boxes, etc (all functions that PowerPoint can do using their drawing toolbar) on top of the picture and then I saved it as a jpeg. Any drawing or slide-making program could do the same thing.

[Edit: I am adding a second picture in case some are having a hard time finding the hose. You probably do have to push some wires out of the way initially to help you identify the hose. A light will help.

****Also be aware that the hose may not yet be broken in two like mine. It may of course just have a crack in it, probably at the same location as the break in mine and others.]

Pic #5: Diagram showing relationship of broken hose to the oil separator and dipstick tube.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/picture...ictureid=12630

Pic #6: Another view of the broken hose area.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/picture...ictureid=12631

gsbmw 06-23-2010 04:34 PM

95dime/Derek,
I don't have a Peake reader, but I will list below the OBD II codes together with BMW's Fault Codes and descriptions, taken from the Bentley manual. Perhaps the Peake uses BMW's codes. Note that the codes refer to both banks, which implies that there is a problem upstream of the two cylinder banks (thus it affects both banks) and therefore is probably not related to individual sensor faults, for example.

OBD II.....BMW-FC............Description
P1188......227..................Fuel Control (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P1189......228..................Fuel Control (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P1250......None................?
P0170......202..................Fuel Trim (Bank 1)
P0173......203..................Fuel Trim (Bank 2)
P0150......153, 154, 155....O2 Sensor Circuit (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0130......150, 151, 152....O2 Sensor Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

EDIT NOTE: These codes are for my engine (M52 TU, Siemens DME MS42.1 from 6/1/1999 to 10/31/2000). I see in the Bentley manual that different OBD II codes may come up in other engines for the BMW Fault Codes listed above. For example, BMW codes 202, 203, 227 and 228 can trigger codes P0171 and P0174 (if too lean) or codes P0172 and P0175 (if too rich) for the M54 engine, Siemens DME MS43.0 from 4/1/2000 to 8/31/2001. Other engines may have additional codes. I will try to make a table of possible codes for the various BMW Fault Codes listed here.

Freedman 06-24-2010 01:34 PM

Appreciated:woot:

jacksbmw 06-26-2010 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsbmw (Post 11913212)
95dime/Derek,
I don't have a Peake reader, but I will list below the OBD II codes together with BMW's Fault Codes and descriptions, taken from the Bentley manual. Perhaps the Peake uses BMW's codes. Note that the codes refer to both banks, which implies that there is a problem upstream of the two cylinder banks (thus it affects both banks) and therefore is probably not related to individual sensor faults, for example.

OBD II.....BMW-FC............Description
P1188......227..................Fuel Control (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P1189......228..................Fuel Control (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P1250......None................?
P0170......202..................Fuel Trim (Bank 1)
P0173......203..................Fuel Trim (Bank 2)
P0150......153, 154, 155....O2 Sensor Circuit (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0130......150, 151, 152....O2 Sensor Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

EDIT NOTE: These codes are for my engine (M52 TU, Siemens DME MS42.1 from 6/1/1999 to 10/31/2000). I see in the Bentley manual that different OBD II codes may come up in other engines for the BMW Fault Codes listed above. For example, BMW codes 202, 203, 227 and 228 can trigger codes P0171 and P0174 (if too lean) or codes P0172 and P0175 (if too rich) for the M54 engine, Siemens DME MS43.0 from 4/1/2000 to 8/31/2001. Other engines may have additional codes. I will try to make a table of possible codes for the various BMW Fault Codes listed here.

i had codes po172 po175 also po313 and po455
,so i decided to look at the the same hose that was broken in your car,and i found that my has what it looks like a rip in it,unless that hose has a sleeveon it

gsbmw 06-26-2010 02:57 PM

The original hose does have a non-braided (smooth rubber) sleeve on it just down (to the right in my pictures) from the break point. But your codes appear to be "too rich" codes, which is probably a different problem from a crack or break in this hose. My hose break gave "too lean" codes.

From looking at your codes (see below), the P0455 may be the most important. It could be an open or poorly-sealing gas cap, as an easy first thing to try to check. I would do some searches for P0455 and get some ideas to check out. Good luck.

From the Bentley manual (for M54 engine):
P0172 - System too rich (Bank 1)
P0175 - System too rich (Bank 2)
P0313 - Misfire detected with Low Fuel
P0455 - Evaporative Emission System Leak Detected (large leak)

jacksbmw 06-26-2010 04:07 PM

thanks,those are my problems.but i also have a break on the oil seperated hose,its right before the plastic elbow,i guess i could pick up the part online

gsbmw 06-26-2010 08:57 PM

This broken hose will definitely set off a slew of codes, and it's interesting that you're getting these codes. As for buying it, I bought my part at pelicanparts.com for $10.50, and autohausaz.com has one about the same price, not including shipping. Your local BMW dealer probably sells it for less than $20. I'm glad this thread helped you out.

jacksbmw 07-03-2010 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsbmw (Post 11925877)
This broken hose will definitely set off a slew of codes, and it's interesting that you're getting these codes. As for buying it, I bought my part at pelicanparts.com for $10.50, and autohausaz.com has one about the same price, not including shipping. Your local BMW dealer probably sells it for less than $20. I'm glad this thread helped you out.

thanks

dirsh 08-20-2010 07:04 AM

thanks for this detailed DIY
I think i'll replace this hose when i'm doing my oil housing hasket

gsbmw 08-20-2010 04:12 PM

Dirsh, if you're doing your oil housing gasket, you'll have the housing, steering fluid reservoir and alternator out of the way, so you should have an unusually clear shot to the oil separator and its hoses (probably a better shot than the usual method to get to it).

Since the oil separator is such a big pain to replace normally (when you don't have so much removed already), and since your car looks to be about 10 yrs old, I would suggest replacing the oil separator and its hoses while you're right there, assuming you plan to hold on to the car for a while. They seem to go out on a lot of our cars.

This is actually a great opportunity do avoid a future time-consuming DIY, when you could otherwise be enjoying your friends/family and beautiful Hawaii!

dirsh 08-23-2010 03:36 AM

good idea
I think i'm going to buy that kit from ticsher
thanks

havnfun328 08-23-2010 05:34 PM

From the pictures, this looks very hard to get to, especially the CCV side of the connection. Do you need really small hands to get to it?

I had an intermittant idle and low rpm power loss problem several weeks ago, but with no codes or CEL. Could a cracked lower hose cause that?

Did you leak oil before you fixed it?

gsbmw 08-24-2010 06:25 AM

The hose is really easy to get to in my opinion, although you do need to push or move wires etc out of the way. My hands are large but I am slender. It only takes a minute to find it and another few mins to remove it. It may help you gain easier access if you tilt the steering fluid reservoir out of the way toward the left fender after removing its mounting bolt(s). This will help get that big braid-covered hose out of the way.

Also, if you are replacing the hose, before taking out the old hose, put a strip of paper/cardboard or something down along the route of the old hose from the oil separator to the dipstick tube to help you correctly route the new hose.

As I mentioned earlier somewhere, unplug and label as many electrical donnections as you an find. The hose is a little buried behind some tubes and wires.

havnfun328 08-24-2010 09:26 AM

Thanks.
Did you have an oil leak too?

Peake Research 08-24-2010 03:47 PM

This is an awesome post with great photos - I have a feeling my E46 has the same issue. I just started showing adaptation codes again - I'd previously replaced the intake boot that solved it.

To answer the above question about codes our tool will see vs. the OBDII - from my personal experience, 1188 and 1189 correlate to BMW's O2 sensor adaptation (using our tool), as that is what is reporting the fuel mix condition.

Using the Bentley conversion chart is a bit misleading, as it takes the generic code, offers a 'translation' to the nearest BMW code, but uses the generic OBDII textual definition. The text definition shown is not the BMW definition, which can send you down the wrong path.

That said, in the case of the adaptation/mixture codes, it clearly lead you to find the vacuum leak that is so frequently the cause of these faults.

Thanks for the write up!

Ken

gsbmw 08-24-2010 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by havnfun328 (Post 12161017)
Thanks.
Did you have an oil leak too?

Sorry, yes, I did have an small oil leak due to the hose break. This hose carries small amounts of oil from the oil separator down into the oil pan via the hose's connection to the dipstick tube. So there was some oil leakage at the break, but it wasn't so much that I needed to add oil (and the problem went on for at least several months before I found it). You can see in Picture #3 that the hose is oily around the break.

Regarding your other question, I would think that a completely broken hose would give codes and a CEL, but you should be able to check the hose without too much trouble.

You might also consider cleaning your ICV (idle control valve) if that hasn't been done recently. They get stuck due to soot buildup. This might give idle problems without codes. Another possible cause for poor idle w/o codes might be your vanos seals, which are a rather big job to replace. Try the ICV first -- mine was stuck after 60K miles.

gsbmw 08-24-2010 07:00 PM

Ken, thanks for the input and compliments.

Someday I'll probably get a Peake to compliment my current reader out of curiosity. Perhaps like others, I chose the OBDII reader initially so that I can use it on my girlfriend's benz and my friends' other cars. My reader (Equus 3100) seemed like a good compromise, since it asks me to choose my make of car from a list whenever it detects manufacturer-specific codes (and it gives helpful freeze frame data). So I think I am getting whatever information that BMW wants an OBDII reader to convey. But like I said, I'd like to have a Peake one day to compare the readouts and possibly get additional info.

You probably know this already having dealt with similar codes before, but in case it is of help to you, other causes for such codes (lean codes) could of course be due to other vacuum leaks (such as other oil separator hoses or perhaps the oil separator itself, and the DISA valve gasket), or possibly due to poor fuel delivery (clogged fuel filter or failing fuel pump). The MAF sensor or a sticking ICV might also be involved, but other possibilities seem more likely to me. Before finding the broken hose, I cleaned my stuck ICV, which helped the car idle a little better, but the codes remained due to my hose problem. Good luck.


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