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-   -   For those of you with linear coilover setup... (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=775212)

j30a1 06-30-2010 06:35 PM

For those of you with linear coilover setup...
 
I have done a lot of research on suspension, and I have been on AST coilovers with Hipercoil springs.

Now I have been on this setup for a while and it's been really good but then I've been doing research on what I can do to better my suspension. I ran across this site.

www.swiftsprings.com

I looked for more information on it and the reviews I found on them were nothing but positive. So I went ahead and contacted them.

When I contacted them and they told me the advantages of the springs, and half of it was pretty technical so I'm not going to regurgitate and mess up the information given to me. They did however, tell me that AST is now a distributor for their springs, and on certain kits even come with their springs.

So then that made things way simple, my coilovers came with the Hipercoil springs so they have something to compare them to. So I went on to contacting AST themselves. Anyways they also told me that they prefer the Swifts over the Hipercoils, but I guess the Hipercoil name is bigger. And I purchased a set. The exact same rates and lengths.

Now I know you wouldn't expect springs to make such a big difference, but it was interesting how durastic the changes were. The springs felt much more compliant, or I think smooth would be the right word. The spring rates are supposedly more precise and everything but they it's not like Hipercoils are off on thier spring rates either. The difference was so durastic that I had to call Swift springs again to ask them wth is going on with your springs, and they told me that because of the compliance of their spring they consistently keep tires cooler because the tires are constantly contacting the ground while other springs skip over uneven surfaces on the ground, and info like that cannot be seen on a spring dyno chart. In fact they are big in many forms of racing including Nascar, and ALMS.

Anyways I just wanted to pass the word around to see if anyone else has had experience with Swift. It's weird that I have not seen them around more often. Im sorry I cannot give any technical data on the springs because for obvious reasons I have no spring Dyno or anything of that sort. I know I found something online somewhere where a swift user tested them out. I will look for it.

j30a1 07-01-2010 10:15 AM

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...gs-dynoed.html

Found it.

HP Autowerks 07-01-2010 05:31 PM

3 Attachment(s)
AST start offering Swift because of us, no one would buy Hypercoils with AST's from them anymore.

Swift makes a great product, we have been using their springs successfully on many E82/E9x suspension projects:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289833

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329544

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398354

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360577

blucaller 07-06-2010 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks (Post 11946443)
AST start offering Swift because of us

I have a used set of Tc Kline D/A that I never installed with 500/600 springs.
Would you recommend Swift springs on these coilovers too?
Are these springs better than what TCK offers?

bigjae1976 07-06-2010 08:52 AM

hmmm...I was about to swap out the springs on my PSSs for something linear like the Hypercoils.

How much for a set of 4?

Many330i 07-07-2010 02:12 PM

Okay, so were do we buy these swift springs? Just the springs, not for coilover spring replacement!

j30a1 07-07-2010 06:56 PM

TCK uses Vogland. And those are actually cheap springs. There is a dealer for them that is near my area called Parker Pumper and they are pretty big with Vogland and Swift. They told me that Vogland doesn't compare with Swift. He said Voglands are very inexpensive springs.
http://www.racingplus.com/

back on Topic, yes Swift springs will pretty much fit on any linnear coilover setup. and they can be purchased from any of their dealers. I know HP Autowerks sells them. with TC Kline coilovers.
They are pretty expensive springs but the difference is totally feelable. I wouldn't be making this thread if it were just a waste of money. I know they retail for about 99 dollars per spring but can obviously be bought cheaper.

BigJae1976- I believe the Mini forum thread that I posted up has a comparison between Swift and Hiperco.



Many330i- I dont believe they are making lowering springs for our cars.

bigjae1976 07-07-2010 11:29 PM

Interesting. I know I need 60mm springs and a new upper perch for my vorshlag camber plates. I wonder how I find out what length I need?

j30a1 07-08-2010 11:02 AM

Normally you just run the same springs as your original setup. And if anything I know guys like HP would know exactly what you need to run. The reason being I think They've done a lot with Swift.

Solo 323 CI 07-08-2010 12:45 PM

Nice info. It's always good to read about something other than KW's that uses progressive parts

HP Autowerks 07-09-2010 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucaller (Post 11960006)
I have a used set of Tc Kline D/A that I never installed with 500/600 springs.
Would you recommend Swift springs on these coilovers too?
Are these springs better than what TCK offers?

They are very similar in quality. If you are interested in changing spring rate than we can accomadate you but you would not see a difference between 500 TC springs and 500 swifts.

For anyone interested in Swift springs, shoot us a PM. We also offer KW conversions that turn KW's into true coilover kits.

bigjae1976 07-09-2010 10:36 PM

PM sent!

ZeroSum 07-11-2010 06:33 PM

Funny you mention this - over the weekend I swapped my #650 hyperco rear springs out for #570 swift springs on my AST coilovers.

Sharp impacts are noticably better damped and the ride is now more than acceptable instead of borderline uncomfortable with the hyperco's.

Most of this is probably down to the change in spring rate, I can't be sure.

ninjlao 07-13-2010 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks (Post 11974196)
They are very similar in quality. If you are interested in changing spring rate than we can accomadate you but you would not see a difference between 500 TC springs and 500 swifts.

For anyone interested in Swift springs, shoot us a PM. We also offer KW conversions that turn KW's into true coilover kits.

If TC springs are made by volkland spring then I will have to fully disagree with this comment. I have helped several teams with there vehicles and done a lot of research on suspension, of course the spring is also part of the suspension and I have done a lot of testing with all kinds of different brands in suspension springs. I will do a simple writeup of what I am talking about.

ninjlao 07-13-2010 01:38 AM

Now as for the testing I happen to have a spare volkland spring lying around because I had a friend that wanted me to test it out. I also have a set of lightly used Swift springs in almost the same dimensions. The Volkland spring that i have is a
2.5" ID 9" length 180lb/inch spring.
The swift on the other hand is
2.5" ID 9" length 4kg/mm spring which equals to 223lb/inch spring.

Now just a little background information on this little test that I did. The lower the spring rate the spring rate changes and spikes throughout its compression is much less affected than a heavy spring rate. The spring rate spikes are obviously much more noticeable but the percentage increased are about the same. The reason I tested out such low rates though is because these springs are the only springs comparable that I have lying around.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020154.jpg

Now there is a lot more to a spring than the spring rate but that is by far the easiest to see the quality and accuracy of the spring itself. So that is exactly what I tested first.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020166.jpg

There is nothing bad I can really say about this spring, it is really hard to tell the accuracy of the spring rate because it is not too hard to be off on a spring rate so low. But as a 180lb/inch spring it is pretty dead on its spring rate all the way through its compression.
1st inch- 181
2nd inch- 183
3rd inch- 186 (already starting to hike up)
4th inch-250 (it was nearing coilbind so its natural to increase this much so you can judge this spring at this amount of compression)


Now with the swift spring.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020161.jpg
again this spring is also a low spring rate, it's a little stiffer than the Volkland but it is nowhere near high enough to accurately tell how precise this spring is. But this is the spring rate that was recorded throughout its stroke

1st inch- 220
2nd inch- 223
3rd inch- 222
4th inch- 224

Now I took a picture of every inch of compression, I tested it several times through the different strokes of the springs and the numbers for both really consistent throughout their compressions. The pictures and the recorded numbers I decided to post up are numbers starting with zero preload.
These pictures posted below is where the Swift started to outshine the Volkland. This is at 3 inch of compression.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020169.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020165.jpg

You can clearly see that the swift spring has a much larger sweet spot than the Volkland spring. You can also see that the Swift spring is much closer to the desired spring rate.

But this is not the only advantage to the spring.
Right after being put on the spring checker I remeasured the springs to see if there were any difference in length.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020173.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020172.jpg
The Volkland spring was brand spanking new. With just a few compressions on the spring checker it had already sagged 1/16 of an inch.

the used Swift on the other hand was dead on at its height.

This was just a few minutes of compression on the spring checker. Now you can imagine what the spring would do after a few months of use with the weight of the car and the vibrations exposed to the spring.

Well Volkland springs are known to sag after a few race events in the real time racing. This is why I decided to measure it before and after the checking of the rates. I already knew the results before going into the test.
Also to show the craftmanship of these springs
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020157.jpg
^This picture was also taken before the dyno testing. Now all springs do slant a slight amount. They usually are within whatever the manufacturer specs are. This spring though is almost like an S shape which is something I only thought came with Megan springs. This was kind of disappointing to me.

ninjlao 07-13-2010 02:57 AM

Now I have tested time and time again, all sorts of different springs from all kinds of manufacturers. I am always pretty confident with the swift product. Now if I find a better product then I will back that, but so far to this day I have not found one.

Now Zerosum brought up a good point. What you claimed is the exact thing that splits the Swift springs apart from all the other spring manufacturer. Now lets say I were to get the most precise spring from Hiperco or Eibach and compared it with a Swift spring. On a spring dyno it will be very similar. The graph would probably look identical, but then if you were to physically use those springs and swap them out, to use back to back, It would be a night and day difference. You would immediately be able to tell which is Swift. The Swift will feel much more compliant, in fact its exactly what Zerosum said "the impacts are much better damped". I know it is hard to understand but I will explain.

It is not the spring rate that distinguishes the differences in the impact of uneven pavement. Spring rate has more to do with the reaction of the amount of force put onto the spring. In other words to put it in simple terms, it will affect body roll. I am not saying that initial impact of uneven pavement can be softened by softening spring rate, but that is not the correct way to make a car more compliant. The correct way is the shock absorber the main reason for this is because there is a form of mechanical lag with the spring. This is why some suspension companies do not even believe in adjusting spring rate (talk to the techs at KW).

Now for some reason the reaction rate or the time to respond from impact with the Swift spring is much much quicker than ANY other spring company. This is something that can not be seen on a spring dyno. But can be tested. In fact through the testing that I have done we have seen that even with the exact spring rates being used the tire temperatures with the Swift springs is always cooler. This is the reaction rate of the spring, or frequency of the spring is what some suspension scientists explained it to me as. (LOL)
But of course track testing is nowhere near accurate for testing because there are so many different variables that come into play with simply measuring tiretemps.

Anyways the reason why we came to the conclusion that the reaction speed is different is because we ended up taking the car to a shaker rig. Which is an extemely expensive process, which I obviously did not pay for but was there to help figure out why the Swift springs were so different.

Anyways what I am trying to say is that the Swift springs even with the same rates will durastically make a difference with the performance of the vehicle.

j30a1 07-13-2010 04:52 PM

I had to re-read this like 5 times to understand it.

Thanks for the info.

bigjae1976 07-13-2010 05:53 PM

Great info...now I'm REALLY want to try these springs. Just need to get HP Autowerks some info about my PSSs!

HP Autowerks 09-09-2010 09:00 PM

Bump for an amazing comparison.


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