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-   -   How to Finally Get Performance Out of Your KW Coilovers (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=778203)

HP Autowerks 07-14-2010 04:17 PM

How to Finally Get Performance Out of Your KW Coilovers
 
It's no secret that KW isn't much of a performance coilover. It is a mass produced product that sells due to such a low buy in price and an immense amount of marketing. Just look at the threads when someone asks what the best coilover system is, it is almost always KW and the reason being, "that's what I have on my car".

When you have never tried other systems it is easy to think that the KW system is great. BUT, take a ride a in a true linear rate car that has been set up properly with appropriate spring rates (or even the same spring rates) and you will see just how far off the best system you are. The reason for this being that KW uses progressive springs. This means that it takes an average over the springs compression. For example, say at 1 in of compression it is 200lbs, 2in compression = 250lbs and 3in compression= 300lbs. The spring rate would be 250lbs ((200+250+300)/3) This kind of springs set up is very unpredictable when it comes to handling and makes you car handle poorly because you don't have the quick reaction of the spring.

THE ONLY KW SYSTEM that is NOT progressive are the CLUBSPORTS.

Fortunately for those of you who already have KW coilover systems, you don't have to scrap you entire system to get a linear set up. We offer a KW conversion kit that allows you to use Swift linear coilover springs. We have offered this to the E9X community and they have been floored by how much they notice the difference and how :censor: they were for being suckered in on the KW product.

A fellow e46fanatics member explained it very well and this comparison is between two linear springs. KW springs would have been obliterated in this test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjlao (Post 11987149)
Now as for the testing I happen to have a spare volkland spring lying around because I had a friend that wanted me to test it out. I also have a set of lightly used Swift springs in almost the same dimensions. The Volkland spring that i have is a
2.5" ID 9" length 180lb/inch spring.
The swift on the other hand is
2.5" ID 9" length 4kg/mm spring which equals to 223lb/inch spring.

Now just a little background information on this little test that I did. The lower the spring rate the spring rate changes and spikes throughout its compression is much less affected than a heavy spring rate. The spring rate spikes are obviously much more noticeable but the percentage increased are about the same. The reason I tested out such low rates though is because these springs are the only springs comparable that I have lying around.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020154.jpg

Now there is a lot more to a spring than the spring rate but that is by far the easiest to see the quality and accuracy of the spring itself. So that is exactly what I tested first.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020166.jpg

There is nothing bad I can really say about this spring, it is really hard to tell the accuracy of the spring rate because it is not too hard to be off on a spring rate so low. But as a 180lb/inch spring it is pretty dead on its spring rate all the way through its compression.
1st inch- 181
2nd inch- 183
3rd inch- 186 (already starting to hike up)
4th inch-250 (it was nearing coilbind so its natural to increase this much so you can judge this spring at this amount of compression)


Now with the swift spring.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020161.jpg
again this spring is also a low spring rate, it's a little stiffer than the Volkland but it is nowhere near high enough to accurately tell how precise this spring is. But this is the spring rate that was recorded throughout its stroke

1st inch- 220
2nd inch- 223
3rd inch- 222
4th inch- 224

Now I took a picture of every inch of compression, I tested it several times through the different strokes of the springs and the numbers for both really consistent throughout their compressions. The pictures and the recorded numbers I decided to post up are numbers starting with zero preload.
These pictures posted below is where the Swift started to outshine the Volkland. This is at 3 inch of compression.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020169.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020165.jpg

You can clearly see that the swift spring has a much larger sweet spot than the Volkland spring. You can also see that the Swift spring is much closer to the desired spring rate.

But this is not the only advantage to the spring.
Right after being put on the spring checker I remeasured the springs to see if there were any difference in length.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020173.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020172.jpg
The Volkland spring was brand spanking new. With just a few compressions on the spring checker it had already sagged 1/16 of an inch.

the used Swift on the other hand was dead on at its height.

This was just a few minutes of compression on the spring checker. Now you can imagine what the spring would do after a few months of use with the weight of the car and the vibrations exposed to the spring.

Well Volkland springs are known to sag after a few race events in the real time racing. This is why I decided to measure it before and after the checking of the rates. I already knew the results before going into the test.
Also to show the craftmanship of these springs
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...H/P1020157.jpg
^This picture was also taken before the dyno testing. Now all springs do slant a slight amount. They usually are within whatever the manufacturer specs are. This spring though is almost like an S shape which is something I only thought came with Megan springs. This was kind of disappointing to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjlao (Post 11987357)
Now I have tested time and time again, all sorts of different springs from all kinds of manufacturers. I am always pretty confident with the swift product. Now if I find a better product then I will back that, but so far to this day I have not found one.

Now Zerosum brought up a good point. What you claimed is the exact thing that splits the Swift springs apart from all the other spring manufacturer. Now lets say I were to get the most precise spring from Hiperco or Eibach and compared it with a Swift spring. On a spring dyno it will be very similar. The graph would probably look identical, but then if you were to physically use those springs and swap them out, to use back to back, It would be a night and day difference. You would immediately be able to tell which is Swift. The Swift will feel much more compliant, in fact its exactly what Zerosum said "the impacts are much better damped". I know it is hard to understand but I will explain.

It is not the spring rate that distinguishes the differences in the impact of uneven pavement. Spring rate has more to do with the reaction of the amount of force put onto the spring. In other words to put it in simple terms, it will affect body roll. I am not saying that initial impact of uneven pavement can be softened by softening spring rate, but that is not the correct way to make a car more compliant. The correct way is the shock absorber the main reason for this is because there is a form of mechanical lag with the spring. This is why some suspension companies do not even believe in adjusting spring rate (talk to the techs at KW).

Now for some reason the reaction rate or the time to respond from impact with the Swift spring is much much quicker than ANY other spring company. This is something that can not be seen on a spring dyno. But can be tested. In fact through the testing that I have done we have seen that even with the exact spring rates being used the tire temperatures with the Swift springs is always cooler. This is the reaction rate of the spring, or frequency of the spring is what some suspension scientists explained it to me as. (LOL)
But of course track testing is nowhere near accurate for testing because there are so many different variables that come into play with simply measuring tiretemps.

Anyways the reason why we came to the conclusion that the reaction speed is different is because we ended up taking the car to a shaker rig. Which is an extemely expensive process, which I obviously did not pay for but was there to help figure out why the Swift springs were so different.

Anyways what I am trying to say is that the Swift springs even with the same rates will durastically make a difference with the performance of the vehicle.


TrippinBimmer 07-14-2010 06:45 PM

Cost?

-TrippinBimmer

cyberkaa 07-14-2010 06:54 PM

I've been waiting for a deal to come along on some Swifts. Hope it's a good one. :)

j30a1 07-15-2010 04:26 PM

well they're pricey but the difference is night and day.

BMW_Matt 07-15-2010 04:41 PM

define pricey :rofl:

j30a1 07-15-2010 05:22 PM

99 a piece is the retail. so a touch under 400 for a full set. But thats retail, you can find it cheaper online.

HP Autowerks 07-15-2010 05:26 PM

You'll notice a huge difference from just doing the fronts if you can't afford the whole package. You need to have the front lower adjusters machined 1mm off or we can provide new ones already machined.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...204&highlight=

BMW_Matt 07-16-2010 03:49 AM

Jeeez $400? For that price you might as well sell the KW's and upgrade to either GC/Tc Kline or AST :drool:

j30a1 07-19-2010 10:46 AM

Its not that bad. These springs make a huge difference. It doesn't matter what coilovers you go with.

HP Autowerks 07-19-2010 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW_Matt (Post 12000512)
Jeeez $400? For that price you might as well sell the KW's and upgrade to either GC/Tc Kline or AST :drool:

$400<$2,000. Even if you sell the KW's for $800, then it's still $400<$1,200.

You've got to pay to play. It seems everybody wants the best stuff but doesn't want to pay for it. This is a great chance for people who bought KW's to rectify a poor situation for little money and not have to scrap their whole setup.

TxZHP04 07-19-2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks (Post 12010160)
$400<$2,000. Even if you sell the KW's for $800, then it's still $400<$1,200.

You've got to pay to play. It seems everybody wants the best stuff but doesn't want to pay for it. This is a great chance for people who bought KW's to rectify a poor situation for little money and not have to scrap their whole setup.

I think if folks really cared about performance, they wouldn't have gone with KW to begin with. Seems people choose KW because they go low, ride "ok", and are relatively inexpensive (but expsensive enough to feel like they've purchased something higher quality than say Raceland).

j30a1 07-19-2010 01:59 PM

KW is a performance suspension system though. They are very successful in the timeattack scene. It's just if you want to be a bit more competitive you can go with a linnear setup.

BMW_Matt 07-19-2010 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks (Post 12010160)
$400<$2,000. Even if you sell the KW's for $800, then it's still $400<$1,200.

You've got to pay to play. It seems everybody wants the best stuff but doesn't want to pay for it. This is a great chance for people who bought KW's to rectify a poor situation for little money and not have to scrap their whole setup.

txzhp basically said what I was going to, but gl with selling it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TxZHP04 (Post 12010513)
I think if folks really cared about performance, they wouldn't have gone with KW to begin with. Seems people choose KW because they go low, ride "ok", and are relatively inexpensive (but expsensive enough to feel like they've purchased something higher quality than say Raceland).

This.
Quote:

Originally Posted by j30a1 (Post 12010840)
KW is a performance suspension system though. They are very successful in the timeattack scene. It's just if you want to be a bit more competitive you can go with a linnear setup.

Yeah but those guys go with the clubsports which are substantially more.

TxZHP04 07-19-2010 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j30a1 (Post 12010840)
KW is a performance suspension system though.

That's kind of like saying Toyota is a performance car company because they happen to have the LF-A. KW offers a wide range of product. They do make some decent track oriented setups but those are in a completely different league from the entry level/street systems popular here.

EDIT: You affiliated with HP Autowerks? It's funny you appeared out of nowhere talking about how great Swift springs are and then all of the sudden HPA starts marketing them heavily.

HP Autowerks 07-19-2010 06:08 PM

We have been selling Swift springs for years. We aren't new to the Swift market. We were the first to pair Swift springs with AST's. In fact Swift springs were SO good on their systems that they actually switched from Hyperco to Swift because of us.

HP Autowerks 07-19-2010 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxZHP04 (Post 12010513)
I think if folks really cared about performance, they wouldn't have gone with KW to begin with. Seems people choose KW because they go low, ride "ok", and are relatively inexpensive (but expsensive enough to feel like they've purchased something higher quality than say Raceland).

I don't know if that's entirely true. There is a lot of misinformation spread on here especially to new members. Then they spread it to the members after them. KW has a HUGE marketing budget as well, much more so than AST or TC Kline. It is easy to get persuaded to KW if you don't know the facts.

Snik 07-19-2010 06:23 PM

interesting...

so some GC mounts, and adjusters, and Koni springs w/ Swift coild should be a sweet ass setup right?

Any info on TC Kline setups, as far as comparison.

j30a1 07-19-2010 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxZHP04 (Post 12011278)
That's kind of like saying Toyota is a performance car company because they happen to have the LF-A. KW offers a wide range of product. They do make some decent track oriented setups but those are in a completely different league from the entry level/street systems popular here.

EDIT: You affiliated with HP Autowerks? It's funny you appeared out of nowhere talking about how great Swift springs are and then all of the sudden HPA starts marketing them heavily.

LOL I have nothing to do with HP. But I am a big believer in Swift.
And no that is completely different. In most cases a KW Varient 3 is the exact same shock as the Clubsport, except the Clubsport comes with tophats and camber plates.
And if you think about it, building up with time rather than buying it all at once is always not a bad option.
I mean some people bought the varient 3's and not the Clubsport because they couldnt afford it at the time. But then when they have the money they can buy the top hats and linnear springs and now they have a Clubsport.

HP just happen to make a post about Swift, I never said once that HP was a good dealer, hell I've never even bought from them before.
Like I said I am a big fan of Swift. Hey man a good product is a good product.
Here is my original thread
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=775212

HP Autowerks 07-22-2010 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snikwad (Post 12012077)
interesting...

so some GC mounts, and adjusters, and Koni springs w/ Swift coild should be a sweet ass setup right?

Any info on TC Kline setups, as far as comparison.

Exactly. That would be an awesome set up. Although we prefer the AST rear adjuster purely based on design.

Let's just say that Swift is the best on the market right now.

TxZHP04 07-22-2010 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks (Post 12023773)
Let's just say that Swift is the best on the market right now.

If you wanted to donate a set of Swift springs, I'd be happy to swap them in place of my Hypercos and give an unbiased review/comparison.... :D


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