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-   -   Convertible Front Window Control Problem (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=779007)

jfoj 07-18-2010 06:08 PM

Convertible Front Window Control Problem
 
So I have a 2006 330cic Convertible (E46), here is my phantom?? problem.

One touch windows up used to work until car was at the shop for 30 days. Seems that the battery was either disconnected and/or died a number of times.

Received car back from the shop and battery had to be replaced due to a bad cell.

Now it appears that my One Touch Auto Up feature for the front windows no longer works. Additionally if the windows are down, the master window button will only raise the rear windows.

So is this a phantom loss of programming, a problem with a module, an issue with the way the car was was locked?? Do I need to roll the windows down and hold the switch to reset?

Any insight and ideas would be helpful.

Crazy BMW electronics!

jfoj 07-18-2010 07:55 PM

Here is an update on the situation.

The front windows are only going up from the individual window switches. The front windows do not go up from the master window switch, the front windows will not go up using the key in the door, the front windows do not work in the express up mode, the rear windows however do go up using the master switch express up feature.

I attempted to reset the pinch protection per the owners manual, however, I do not think the convertible pinch protection is to be reset as per the owners manual.

I am looking for my service manual at the moment to see if I can determine if there may be an additional fuse that maybe have something to do with the problem I am having.

Possibly a programming glitch, possibly a GM5 module issue?

fotsir 07-19-2010 12:33 AM

If they replaced the GM they may need to enable one-touch operation, which is a car/key memory option.

Otherwise, the chances that they accidentally disabled the function are EXTREMELY low.

If your owner's manual says to hold the window switch in the auto/full up position and hold it for a while, that is the general initialization procedure.

Either the E46 coupes or convertibles have a revised initialization procedure because the usual wasn't working in certain cases (depending on production date maybe I can't recall). Anyway there was a bulletin, I can paraphrase, but it would be best to find a copy.

My memory of the bulletin:

All doors, trunk, hood, everything needs to be closed. Turn key to second position. It is best to have battery charger hooked up.
1. Bring window to be initialized to top and hold window switch at full up (second detent) for 15s.
2. Lower window 1/3 down.
3. Repeat step 1.
4. Repeat step 2, stop at the same place you stopped last time.
5. Repeat step 1.
6. Repeat step 4.
7. Repeat step 1.
8. Check function of window.

Sounds crazy, I know. Do I think this'll work? Maybe. Give it a shot.

jfoj 07-19-2010 06:22 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, the GM5 module was not changed and should not have been programmed, it is possible that the Roll Over Protection was tested, however, I cannot confirm that at this point. The car was in the dealer for a month getting body repairs.

I know the battery was on the way out, so it is possible if the Roll Over Protection was tested, some sort of GT1 or AutoLogic device was connected and if the car was not put on a battery charger, something strange could have happened during testing of the Roll Over Protection system??

Once I got the car back, I started the car and had all the cluster lights lit for a time, then I had some strange problems where only the ABS, parking brake light and one other light was lit on the cluster.

I looked over the service manual briefly, but did not see anything obvious.

I will pull the fuse card and look a bit closer to see if for some reason a fuse blew.

I am starting to think the Express/Auto up feature is not the only problem here. I cannot raise the front windows from either the master window button or the outside door lock, so there is something else crazy here??

I may try your suggestion, I have already tried the procedure that was in the service manual, however, this appears if may be for the coupes and sedans with the upper pinch sensor and not the convertible.

jfoj 07-20-2010 06:38 PM

Something all convertible owners should be aware of, if the window anti-pinch protection is faulted for some reason, like having the battery disconnected for too long, the window motors need to be "standardized to active pinch protection."

Symptoms of faulted pinch protection is as follows:
a. Front window express/auto up feature does not work for either one or both windows.
b. One or both front windows do not raise with the master window switch, but will both go down with the master window switch.
c. One of both front windows do not raise while holding the key in the locked position in the drivers door handle.
d. Front windows work fine with individual window switches and express/auto down function still works.

Well a long waste of time at the dealer as what was in the owners manual was not for convertibles, the I was unsuccessful with procedure that fitsir provided (thanks for the info, maybe it would have worked if I would have been persistent??) and I was unable to find my Bentley Manual. After 2 hours at the dealer I was told that both window regulators needed to be replaced!!! I was thinking, oh well it is under warranty, however, I did not want my doors ripped apart by some monkey and have the ever lasting water leaks due to poor vapor barrier re-installation, water and wind leaks due to poorly aligned windows and the ever lasting rattles and noised due to missing or incorrectly installed hardware.

Well glad I held my ground and said hell no, no window regulators to be installed. Why would both window regulators go out at the exact same time. The car only has 30,000 miles and was working fine until the battery was replaced, at the dealer last week and under warranty!!!

Well it took the dealer ANOTHER 2 hours and 4 different techs along with the Shop Foreman to sort things out. It appears the Shop Foreman sorted 1 window, told the tech how to do it, left for another job and the tech screwed around for over 1 hour asking for help from others in the shop.

The dealer did finally have success reinitializing the window pinch protection, however, it took over 4 1/2 hours and at least 5 different people looking at the car!

Well I finally found my Bentley Manual after I came home (Note to self, do not allow Bentley Manual to become misplaced again!!)

Here is the procedure directly from the Bentley Manual for the Convertible Window Motor Standardization procedure. Note, I have not performed this procedure, however, I assume it is the proper way to "standardize" the windows. There may be other ways that work as well, however, I have yet to try them.

"" M3 Convertibles manufactured from 03/2003 and Convertibles from 09/2003 feature anti-pinch protection for the front windows. Pinch protection function is integrated in the individual power window motors. Following repair work on the power windows, window motors need to be standardized to active pinch protection.

- With convertible top in closed position, or hardtop in place, open the front windows fully.

- Disconnect and reconnect fuse 57 at the fuse panel. See 610 Electrical Component Locations.

- Close window by pulling up and holding window switch to second detent.

- When fully closed, keep switch in second detent position for at least 3 seconds.

- Repeat for opposite window.

Now a few possibly "less than obvious" things that someone needs to keep in mind when trying this procedure:

a. Make sure both doors are fully closed.
b. You need to pull fuse 57 after lowering both windows but each time before raising each window. So fuse 57 will need to be pulled two times.
c. Make sure you hold the window switches up to the second detent position when raising the windows, then hold for an additional 3 seconds. Error on the side of longer than 3 seconds would be my suggestion.
d. The owners manual only describes the "reinitialization" for non convertibles.
e. The owners manual "clearly" states that after the battery has been disconnected the trap protection must be reinitialized. Note that this may only be true if the battery is disconnected for possibly longer than 15-30 minutes?? as I have had my battery disconnected before for approximately 20-25 minutes before and did not have problems with the windows.

One additional caveat is that the dealer mentioned there was some Service Information Bulletin regarding convertible windows with pinch protection where if they are faulted, the window motor may need to be replaced. I choose not to have my car butchered as I knew that both windows acted up at the same time and it was right after a battery replacement. If I was having a problem with only a single window, I may have gone for a replacement window motor, but my situation was very much different.

So convertible owners, suggest you print this post and put it in your service records or owners manual for future reference.

SharkmanBMW 07-20-2010 11:57 PM

Pathetic but typical dealer behavior.
What great advertising for their service department for when your warranty expires - who doesn't like paying 4.5 hours for a 10 minute job :lmao:

Stealers only know how to REPLACE parts, you were so smart to stand your ground, for all the legitimate reasons you listed and because their solution was plain ridiculous.
I would seriously consider a letter to BMWNA for wasting your time and their money, unless that is the only dealer within 100 miles and you need them. Surely they won't appreciate the BS you dealt with especially on their dime.

jfoj 07-21-2010 05:19 AM

Yea, it was pretty foolish behavior on the dealers part. All they wanted to do was spend close to $800 of BMW's money, and I do not think it was intentional.

I think the tech was in drone mode: Hook up test equipment to car, test equipment indicates both windows had faults, solution is to replace 2 window motors, problem solved and tech bills hours.

I had even written a note and put it in an envelope on the console in plain view addressed to "BMW Service Tech" with some history, although I think the dealer routed the car to the same tech that replaced the battery 1 week before. In the note I CLEARLY stated I did not think the problem was a hardware problem but either a programming glitch or a window re-initialization issue.

What probably frosts my ass even more is I specifically asked to speak with the Shop Foreman after I was told both window motors need replacing to attempt to get a reasonable solution that did not involve totally dismantling both doors and I was told he was eating lunch and would call me later. Well the Shop Foreman did not even have the common courtesy to at least speak to me over the phone, much less in person, but he got involved with the car, did half of the repair, then tossed it back to the tech who was foundering for another 1 1/2 hours. So thanks to the Shop Foreman, he wasted over 1 hour more of everyone's time.

Then the Service Adviser was told to tell me it would happen again, that the window motors still had faults. Geeeezusss!! Yes it WILL happen again if the battery is disconnected long enough, yes it MAY happen again if the window motors have problems or if the window mechanism gets tight and GUESS WHAT, if they put the test equipment back on the car after the windows were re-initialized there would be no faults!!! I will take my chances for now without new window motors. I would love to see the Service Information Bulletin on this problem as well, this is another reason I wanted to speak with the Shop Foreman so I could see what the bulletin stated.

I guess I will just keep reading up in the service manual (I will now have a reserved parking spot for my Bentley manual in my bookcase!) and make sure I review every problem on the Fanatics in detail before I take the car in again.

Yes a waste of my time on my part, but at the end of the day the car is fixed and both doors were not torn apart!!

Dealers = How to make a simple solution expensive and time consuming!!

NorthJersey 3er 07-21-2010 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharkmanBMW (Post 12017738)
Pathetic but typical dealer behavior.
What great advertising for their service department for when your warranty expires - who doesn't like paying 4.5 hours for a 10 minute job :lmao:

Stealers only know how to REPLACE parts, you were so smart to stand your ground, for all the legitimate reasons you listed and because their solution was plain ridiculous.
I would seriously consider a letter to BMWNA for wasting your time and their money, unless that is the only dealer within 100 miles and you need them. Surely they won't appreciate the BS you dealt with especially on their dime.

I agree I like this guy who gave the full write up -- thank you!

Dealerships are a business to make money. They are not looking out for you or your car's well-being. A lot of BMW techs are smart, not all but a lot of them are and I know a few personally and they are very smart and savy w BMWs and diagnosing problems. When they have all their resources in-house to replace parts and make money, why not? We dont call them the stealership for nothing. It comes down to the indy shops or the "weekend warrior" type of mechanic who goes through the bentley manual like a bible and reports to the forums with the info he/she has learned to better guide us w our future problems.

4BUCK 05-27-2011 04:59 PM

FWIW - mine started working again on its own. This was after driving around, attempting to do some sort of reset before I even read how (no fuse pulling), and putting the top up/down...not sure how it fixed itself, but no complaints!

jfoj 03-09-2012 05:30 AM

Need to post a correction on the reset auto up window procedure for the convertibles.

a. Make sure both doors and top are fully closed.
b. Lower both windows fully, pull fuse 57 for about 10 seconds.
c. Do one side at a time.
c. Raise one window all the way up and hold the switch in the position while window is close for 5 seconds.
d. Lower the window all the way down, then repeat the above procedure again for the same window, you need to perform the fully raised hold the button up routine 2 times for each window.
e. Perform the same procedure of the other window. Again you need to perform the fully raised hold the button up routine 2 times for each window.
f. NOTE - you only pull fuse 57 once before the initialization procedure.

scarface46 04-11-2012 09:35 PM

Great write up. Replaced battery in my 06 M3 vert last week and had similar problem. Performed the reset above and worked for my passenger front, but driver's front auto up still not working. Ideas?

scarface46 04-18-2012 09:54 AM

Just a little follow up....I had tried to reset driver front a few times after replacing my battery to no avail. I tried with and without pulling the fuse and had essentially resigned myself to it not working. Well, just for giggles, tried the reset again a couple of days ago an it worked like a charm

BLKICE913 04-25-2012 12:33 PM

Thank you ifoi,
I agree great write up. I just replaced battery in my 05 330CI convertible today had similar problem. Performed your reset write up and it worked for my passenger front, but driver's front auto up still not working. Therefore, can you or anyone out there shed some light on this problem?
OOPS, I tried to get assistance from my local BMW dealership and got the same thing about needing a new window motor. People of this forum are my Hero's

jfoj 04-25-2012 03:50 PM

Be careful as some of what I posted was not correct. You only remove the fuse one time. It is possible you could have a motor with a problem and/or a bad switch??

Best to maybe try to pull thd fuse with both windows already down and then try the reset procedure.

Bookedup 05-09-2012 02:31 PM

jfoj,
Just a quick question, i tried this and it didn't work for me. On a related note, I checked my Bentley Manual and i can't see that fuse 57 (in the glove box) even relates to the windows, at all. Can you provide any additional information?

Thank you in advance,
Rob

jfoj 05-10-2012 01:56 PM

Rob,

Not sure about Fuse 57, however, this is specifically called out in the manual and it indicates it is actually for Outside Mirror??

But if you check the Bentley Manual on page 512-19 if specifically discusses Convertible Window Motor Standardization and calls out Fuse #57.

I can tell everyone this much, the procedure is the Bentley Manual is not 100 correct either. If you follow the Bentley Manual 100% you will not get the window Auto Up feature reset.

You actually have to drop the window and perform the procedure at least 2 times for each window.

I would suggest the following.

Hold the Window switch in the up/fully closed position for at least 5-10 seconds. The manual says 3 seconds and I know many times people under estimate how long 3 seconds can be. I would then fully drop the window again and then perform the fully closed with the switch held again.

So specifically you need to get in the car and close all doors and have the top closed. Run the front windows all the way down. Suggested that you remove Fuse #57 for at least 10 seconds, however, if the Auto Up is not working, you may be able to skip this procedure??

Then on one window at a time, do the following:

Roll the window all the up and continue to hold the window switch in the closed position for 10 seconds, make sure you do not roll the window up, let off the switch, then hold the window switch again, do it all at once. Then fully roll the window down. Then roll the window back up while holding the switch again for 10 seconds.

Now see if your Express/Auto Up feature works for that window. It should.

If you are having problems, you may want to remove Fuse #57 for a longer period of time, maybe 2 minutes, then make sure both windows Express/Auto Up feature is not working, then perform the standardization of the window pinch protection again.

Good Luck.

Bookedup 05-11-2012 07:32 AM

Thanks you Sir! I'll give this a shot this weekend. I really appreciate your prompt response to this. It's been bugging me for some time now. Hopefully i can get everything sorted out this weekend.

Rob

dkamla 02-16-2013 10:47 AM

The procedure for resolving the 'All Up' and 'Auto Up' issue I had following battery disconnect comes from BMW of Bellevue (WA) and is simple:
With doors, windows, top & trunk closed and key on...
1. Press and release the window down button
2. Once down press the window down button again for 3+ sec
3. Pull the window button up and hold while it closes
4. Hold the button up for an additional 3+ sec after closed
5. Repeat for opposite window
This resolved the issue on my '06 330Ci convertible and there were no fuses to mess with. The procedure probably works with the car running as well.
Top Tip: Place a copy of these instructions with your battery so you'll remember the process next time.
Dan
:thumbsup:


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