E46Fanatics

E46Fanatics (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/index.php)
-   Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=98)
-   -   Difference between s54 and m54 (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=793643)

Sir Smirnoff 09-23-2010 11:52 AM

Difference between s54 and m54
 
I know it's somewhat comparing apples to oranges, but how the hell did BMW get an extra 105HP out of an additional .2L of displacement????

The difference between an m52b28 and an m54b30 is 25 HP @ the crank.
How did BMW get the extra 80? I understand that there are different camshafts, ITB's and a more aggressive tune, but that cannot make 80HP! People here change out the camshaft and tune all the time. They usually get only 15HP out of that. So now there is 65HP that is unaccounted for, or at least around there. I can't think of anything that could give you that large a jump in horsepower except boost! Can anyone explain this to me since, as far as I can see, ITB's make a lot more power. But if ITB's made even 45HP, I bet a lot more people would be doing it....

McSpeed 09-23-2010 01:08 PM

I think the ITBs are part of what allows the S54 to rev to 8000.
It's easy to make a lot of HP revving to 8000.
The M54 only revs to 6500.

The S54 is also a 3.2 liter iron block with very strong internals vs the M54's 3.0 liter Al-Sil block.
S54 compression ratio: 11.5:1
M54 Compression ratio: 10.2:1

invictus 09-23-2010 01:16 PM

m faeries

xixixi 09-23-2010 01:52 PM

I'd also assume stiffer valve springs better head. IMO it's all from the top of the motor/CR the ITB's help too!

xixixi 09-23-2010 01:57 PM

repost..

MP325 09-23-2010 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by invictus (Post 12269624)
m faeries

lol

mrshelley 09-23-2010 02:09 PM

99% of everything is different from the front subframe up to the hood and from the radiator to the bell housing.

lejeunebimmer 09-25-2010 10:03 PM

Ok,

I will give this as best a shot as I can.

-M54B30 has an Alu-sil block with the crank and bearings out of an S52 (I don't know if it's the B30 or B32 kind).
-S54B32 has a grey cast-iron block, with a much improved design of the crank and rotational assembly out of the S52.

-M54B30 has 10.2:1 compression
-S54B32 has 11.5:1 compression (here is a big part of the power!!!)

-M54B30 has hydraulic lifters (will most likely collapse in on its self @ ~7500rpm)
-S54B32 has solid rockers (partially enabling the 8k redline)

-S54B32 has more aggressive cams (more power)

-S54B32 has ITB (more power)

-S54B32 is more aggressivley tuned (more power)

-S54B32 has more freely flowing intakes and exhausts (more power)

Summary:

Take an M54B30 bore it to .30" over, throw in some forged connecting rods, and 12:1 compression pistons from Sunbelt, shave port&polish the head, install 1mm oversized valves, heavy duty valve springs, schrick cams, use the intake manifold from a WTCC (do they even have these that could fit?), bore out the throttlebody, throw on a quality set of stepped headers, to a free flowing 2.5" or 2.75" exhaust, maybe use an intake like the dinan CAI (either one), eliminate the A/C, underdrive the waterpump (race one now), underdrive the powersteering, underdrive the alternator, custom tuned or even designed Engine Management software, light weight (like 8.5lbs) flywheel, drysump oiling system, improved vibration dampner (crank pulley), so that you can actually safely rev to like 7500k (maybe remember you still have hyraulic lifters...).

You will have sunk 25k+ into it to make a racing engine that MIGHT make 350hp if you're lucky.... So you see, you could make the power applying the same measeures to the M54B30, but it would most likely have to be taken to extremes, and be overly pricey....

Sir Smirnoff 09-27-2010 10:58 PM

thanks for that info. I was curious.... a big wtf went across my mind in class.... I'm glad you shot down all my hopes and dreams. allows me to focus on the important **** in life.

Phantom Mark 10-20-2010 08:47 AM

Always makes me stand and scratch my head when I see the M-Sport guys taking 300+ bhp out of the 2 litre N/A touring car engines lol, so your thoughts and theory were and are well justified, I guess the ol M engines really are as close to the race machines as you could expect for the road eh :)

PEI330Ci 10-20-2010 12:51 PM

It's in the cylinder head.

S54 Intake port = 275 CFM

M54 Intake port = 200 CFM

The rest of the stuff listed above is small potatoes. Want proof? I strapped an ITB intake onto a built M54 and lost 30rwtq and gained peak 5rwhp. Yuck!

B6T 10-20-2010 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEI330Ci (Post 12370660)
It's in the cylinder head.

S54 Intake port = 275 CFM

M54 Intake port = 200 CFM

The rest of the stuff listed above is small potatoes. Want proof? I strapped an ITB intake onto a built M54 and lost 30rwtq and gained peak 5rwhp. Yuck!

Ding ding ding!!!

aleksankazakov 01-11-2013 03:57 PM

Are there are any parts fom S54-32 that can fit to M54-30?

aleksankazakov 01-11-2013 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejeunebimmer (Post 12277213)
Ok,

I will give this as best a shot as I can.

-M54B30 has an Alu-sil block with the crank and bearings out of an S52 (I don't know if it's the B30 or B32 kind).
-S54B32 has a grey cast-iron block, with a much improved design of the crank and rotational assembly out of the S52.

-M54B30 has 10.2:1 compression
-S54B32 has 11.5:1 compression (here is a big part of the power!!!)

-M54B30 has hydraulic lifters (will most likely collapse in on its self @ ~7500rpm)
-S54B32 has solid rockers (partially enabling the 8k redline)


-S54B32 has more aggressive cams (more power)

-S54B32 has ITB (more power)

-S54B32 is more aggressivley tuned (more power)

-S54B32 has more freely flowing intakes and exhausts (more power)

Summary:

Take an M54B30 bore it to .30" over, throw in some forged connecting rods, and 12:1 compression pistons from Sunbelt, shave port&polish the head, install 1mm oversized valves, heavy duty valve springs, schrick cams, use the intake manifold from a WTCC (do they even have these that could fit?), bore out the throttlebody, throw on a quality set of stepped headers, to a free flowing 2.5" or 2.75" exhaust, maybe use an intake like the dinan CAI (either one), eliminate the A/C, underdrive the waterpump (race one now), underdrive the powersteering, underdrive the alternator, custom tuned or even designed Engine Management software, light weight (like 8.5lbs) flywheel, drysump oiling system, improved vibration dampner (crank pulley), so that you can actually safely rev to like 7500k (maybe remember you still have hyraulic lifters...).

You will have sunk 25k+ into it to make a racing engine that MIGHT make 350hp if you're lucky.... So you see, you could make the power applying the same measeures to the M54B30, but it would most likely have to be taken to extremes, and be overly pricey....

I dont think this will be cost effective way to put a power to M54-30. Turbo probably can make 350hp without rods, pistons, valves and all the other fancy stuff for under 5k to swap M54-30 for S54-32 will cost about the same, but what is the point when for the extra 5k you can upgrade the car to an M car

aleksankazakov 01-11-2013 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejeunebimmer (Post 12277213)
Ok,

I will give this as best a shot as I can.

-M54B30 has an Alu-sil block with the crank and bearings out of an S52 (I don't know if it's the B30 or B32 kind).
-S54B32 has a grey cast-iron block, with a much improved design of the crank and rotational assembly out of the S52.

-M54B30 has 10.2:1 compression
-S54B32 has 11.5:1 compression (here is a big part of the power!!!)

-M54B30 has hydraulic lifters (will most likely collapse in on its self @ ~7500rpm)
-S54B32 has solid rockers (partially enabling the 8k redline)

-S54B32 has more aggressive cams (more power)

-S54B32 has ITB (more power)

-S54B32 is more aggressivley tuned (more power)

-S54B32 has more freely flowing intakes and exhausts (more power)

Summary:

Take an M54B30 bore it to .30" over, throw in some forged connecting rods, and 12:1 compression pistons from Sunbelt, shave port&polish the head, install 1mm oversized valves, heavy duty valve springs, schrick cams, use the intake manifold from a WTCC (do they even have these that could fit?), bore out the throttlebody, throw on a quality set of stepped headers, to a free flowing 2.5" or 2.75" exhaust, maybe use an intake like the dinan CAI (either one), eliminate the A/C, underdrive the waterpump (race one now), underdrive the powersteering, underdrive the alternator, custom tuned or even designed Engine Management software, light weight (like 8.5lbs) flywheel, drysump oiling system, improved vibration dampner (crank pulley), so that you can actually safely rev to like 7500k (maybe remember you still have hyraulic lifters...).

You will have sunk 25k+ into it to make a racing engine that MIGHT make 350hp if you're lucky.... So you see, you could make the power applying the same measeures to the M54B30, but it would most likely have to be taken to extremes, and be overly pricey....

Turbo is the most efficent way to make power, however the more compression you have the less success you will get. M54 can hold 6psi on the standart compression without detonation, but if you want to turbo or supercharge S54 you will need to lower the compression to avoid detonation . 11 cempression is not for turbo. Anything less than 9 will not be a problem. As for 10 on M54 I think 6psi will be the max without tearing the engine a part.

aleksankazakov 01-11-2013 04:15 PM

Getting new pistons for better compression on M54 will be a good upgrade-maitnace at the miles we have on those vehicles. 150k miles on mine and it is nice to swap the pistons to ensure another 100k miles on the motor. Ofcorce you will replace all the seals and other stuff as you go, but it will be only cost efficent if you do it yourself. it means you need to work on your car for about a week every day after work to rebuild the engine. it is a big project to do , but yes it sure adds reliability and power if you put in some aftermarket racing pistons in.

TerraPhantm 01-13-2013 06:28 PM

The S54 cylinder head flows *much* better than the M54 head. The valvetrain is solid and the valves have stiffer springs. This allows it to rev to 8000 reliably. The M3 also has longer duration cams.

It's mostly the better flowing head and the high redline that allows it to make so much more power than the non-M motors.

jared_wiesner 01-14-2013 08:42 AM

Ya essentially three main things are taking place to make that power.

-It's stronger in many areas than the M54 allowing it to rev up to 8000 RPM safely. Given that horsepower is simply work completed as related to time, if you can keep making good torque at faster RPMs, you are making more power.
-It has the flow capability to flow enough air to make power at 8000 RPM. (higher flowing intake/heads/exhaust).
-It has a cam profile to match and make power up to 8000 RPM.

The key to making big horsepower n/a in these cars would be to rev them higher and support that with enough flow.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use