2004 325i OEM NAV Retrofit problems!
Hello- I am have gathered through quite a bit of research that in order to replace the HK business cd / stereo currently in my 2004 325i with factory BMW NAV / DVD, I need to relocate the climate control panel from its current location below the radio, to just above the ashtray which is a piece of cake, but the cheapest I've found the relocation bracket (that contours to the curvature in the hvac panel as opposed to the square edges of the storage compartment currently occupying that space) for is 90$. I obviously need to buy the NAV DVD system itself which is pretty much an all day every day price of 600$. That much I am fully aware of and capable of doing quite easily. I have disassembled the stereo / hvac panel and center console twice now, and I am confident with that portion of the retrofit. Where I am confused is on whether I will need a new wiring harness, and if so, what is nescesscary to install that? The NAV unit is listed as a plug and play item, or am I just being optimistically naive in assuming the seller would disclose the need for a 400$ wiring harness for retrofit application. If there is anybody out there who has done this b4, any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks-
ask Delmarco here on the forums
The audio section here has some pretty complete threads involving the retrofit...search for them and you will know a lot more than I can recall to relay to you.
Cheapest place I know for the AC relocation kit right now it Tischer - Getbmwparts.com for about $50.
If you don't have NAV now, I don't think it is plug-n-play. Add the $200 wire harness, the different drivers side trunk panel (if not already equipped), some brackets for hold said stuff, etc.
Give me a sec, I'll see if I can track down those threads.
BTW, the OEM NAV is a very nice setup, but it is also very pricey, time intensive and at the end of the day, you did all of that work for a 7 or so year old system that could be towards the end of its working life...have you considered the Dynavin? Even aware of it? :)
Info on the Dynavin...check it out atleast - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=793437
Official BMW OEM NAV retrofit guide - http://www.stradasystems.com/bmw/nav...rofitSedan.pdf
Thanks Jmanscotch, I did end up doing quite a bit of homework on what all as involved with the retrofit. I had heard nightmarish stories of needing to run harnesses from the trunk to the dash and all kinds of craziness. Well I did end up finding the Dynavin, which looks exactly like the OEM Nav in the E46's, from a vendor on eBay for $599 obo with 1yr warranty.
I'd like to make clear that, at least the unit I got, you don't need to buy anything else, not even the Falkara cable. IT WAS ENTIRELY PLUG AND PLAY. It took about three hours total time, and the most difficult part for me was running the GPS antenna in the roof without interfering with the sunroof mechanisms.
The first thing you'll want to do is obviously disconnect the negative battery terminal, just in case of any "oopsies" that may occour along the way, and so you don't get a face full of airbag when you're running the GPS wire behind the dash.
Next, you pull the trim located below the passenger side airbag as well as the trim piece above the radio off, simply by prying it up gently with a plastic putty knife or something to that effect. Remove the two screws that secure the A/C vent cover and the radio unit in place, and remove the vent cover. Pry out the radio and disconnect the 17 pin connector as well as the antenna wire, and remove the radio completely.
Next youll want to push the climate control panel out from the back side. Just apply controlled pressure toward yourself and it'll pop right out. Remove the four electrical connections plugged into it, and place the control panel somewhere out of your immediate work area.
Next you'll have to push out the storage compartment, again from the backside to expose two of the four screws that hold that bracket/housing in place. From this point I prefer to put the car's shifter knob into "D" (if automatic trans obviously) to accomidate the space that'll be helpful when removing the ashtray/ storage compartment bracket. Then you remove the shifter knob by giving a good firm pull upward, and remove the boot surrounding it. This will give you access to the remaining two screws necesscary to remove the shift boot trim where your window switches are located.
From this point you can remove the ashtray bracket, and you should have a pretty ugly and empty certer console area. I ran the GPS wire into the roof by removing the maplight fixture, the passenger side sun-visor light, the sun-visor itself and the passenger side "A" pillar, and fishing it through along that path.Once I got the wire through the pillar, I just removed the passenger side vent and dash piece that covers the passenger's airbag. Then I just fished it over to the stereo wiring harness area, and removed all the slack in the wire along the way. Then I just put the ceiling pieces, pillar, dash, and vent back in place. Hopefully that paints a pretty decent picture of where I ran my wire, but to be honest, I'm not sure it has to be in the roof so you may be able to save yourself some time.
Next thing was to remove the smaller (10 pin) connector from the stereo harness (BIG SQUARE 17 pin) itself by removing the blue clip and just push the wire aside. Now you connect the Dynavin connector to your factory connector and secure it by pressing down firmly on the top. (important note: coming out of the Dynavin's main harness, are a few cables that run to a box labeled "SY8." make sure you plug the matching connection into the other end of that SY8 box and into the black cable labeled "IR" This connection will ensure you do not lose your steering wheel control function. I learned this the hard way, and had to re-do the damn' thing. Also, I went ahead and took the single red "safety parking break" wire coming from the back of the Dynavin and spliced it into the 16 ga Black ground wire coming from the unit itself. (This may be ill advised and it is illegal to watch DVD's while driving, but whatever, do what you can afford I guess).
There is also a different style antenna wire than the one the HK business uses, but the Dynavin comes with the adaptor, just make sure you hook it up if you want am/fm. From there i just plastic wrapped all my unused RCA's together and kind of shoved em in next to the airbag. Fitting all the wires and new connections in there without jamming the crap out of em was kind of a pain, but hey, it is what it is.
Finally, I put in my climate control / ashtray bracket that I got for like 68$ from pelican parts, and plugged everything back in and put it all back together. I'm sure there's a few small details I left out, but it really was a pretty simple install.
Downside to it all is that the Dynavin manual is written in HORRIBLY translated English, and doesn't go into any ammount of detail about the wiring, or installation process; much less, setup.
Upside; IT ROCKS and it's only $700 bucks. You'll have to go through and establish GPS antenna signal , and bluetooth,for handsfree and all that, but it's a pretty cool unit overall. Well worth the money in my opinion. So for anybody out there looking to retrofit your E46 with Nav, and you hear all these stories about $2000 bucks. Blow it off man cuz it's BS. You don't need any 300$ harness from bimmernav or any other vendor that requires running cables from front to back, or any of that crap! The only guy I would reccommend talking to is jeff and he's on here. I'm sure there are others who know the deal, I just haven't spoken to em' or read their posts, but Jeff is probably one of the most knowledgable on the Dynavin and E46's audio systems in general.
Hope this can help someone out there or at least allow someone to breathe a sigh of relief when you find out that the OEM NAV "look" doesn't have a $2000 price tag. Thanks-
For a first DIY Dynavin takes care of a lot that is on the DIY to do list
1) iPod integration (and the CD Changer before iPods) ,
2) activating aux in
3) hands free cell phone capability. These 3 items alone cost $350 when I did them 2 to 4 years ago.
4) Nav - that was a $2000 item until Dynavin and Dynavin doesn't take up the left side of the trunk.
Oh man paragraphs please. I ain't reading that! :thumbup:
Sorry ZZen330. Now that I look at it, it sure is an ugly thread! In a few words, installing the Dynavin is an easy job for just about any DIY'er, and, in my opinion, cost effective versus the aftermarket options that just don't look have the look of belonging IMO. The asthetics are purely a matter of opinion, and I understand the AVIC's amd some other aftermarket NAV systems out perform the Dynavin, but the require quite a bit more modification (cutting, re-insulating, etc) and they are more expensive; roughly twice the cost!
As I said in my original post, you can find the unit itself for under $700, and the HVAC / Climate Control bracket for under $100 shipped. I got mine from pelican parts out of California, but there are plenty places to get the part.
As for the Dynavin itself, I'm quite pleased. There are a few quirks in the software that can make its operation / configuration a bit tricky, but it SPANKS the OEM retrofit option that runs around $2000. Not to mention, the INSANE ammount of labor involved in the retrofit harness installation.
I am by no means an expert, but I can probably answer any install or operational questions regarding the Dynavin install. Thanks to all who offered advice along the way-
His questions are very basic: where to get a relocation kit? and nav dvds? come on now even a simple Google search will answer that.
Even my 4 year old Godson knows how to use google off his father's Blackberry Smart Phone. This is ridiculous.
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ _________
Components Installed and Coded in this DIY:
-16:9 CD Navigation Monitor
-MK4 Navigation Computer with 2010 Tele Atlas North America DVD
-BM53 Navigation AM/FM Radio Receiver
-Navigation Retrofit Harness Adapter
-OEM Aux-In for Navigation
-OEM BMW Sirius Receiver for Navigation
-Voice Command Bluetooth using Parrot CK3000 and Connects2 CTPPAR007
-Alpine KCA-420i & Intravee2 iPod Interface Adapter
-Coding of MK4 and Factory E46 Alarm
I wasn't going to do an official DIY write up for this because it is one DIY that I will NEVER EVER recommend since results and budgets are guaranteed to vary.
You can get all the straight dope you need for the RETROFIT at these links:
It is the link I followed but, because that retrofit was done years ago and key things have changed since then, those attempting this retrofit will want to read what I wrote here or may want to ask current opinions on the project as prices and parts availability have changed and will continue changing over the years.
When said and done this is what my journey looked like:
MY CABIN BEFORE:
MY CABIN AFTER:
(I also upgraded to a new SMG M Sport Steering Wheel):
PROLOGUE:The two main reasons I attempted this Retrofit were-
A. I got the opportunity to get a full working new retrofit kit for only $1100.
B. I figured I could sell the current set up that I had in my car at the time; the CD53 MP3 head unit ($400), the iPod USA-Spec ($100), the Parrot Bluetooth ck3000 and ctppar007 kit ($100), and my Tom Tom Go 720 unit ($100) all for at least $500 to $700.
Now I subtracted this $700 I would make from $1100 I would spend and saw that when the dust settled it would only cost me $400 for a clean retrofit install! :D
After reading thru SNA77's DIY links on the retrofit, I figured about $100 to $200 extra would be eventually spent to get any extra parts and unseen expenses for the project.
I expected the DIY would take about 8 hours tops and leave me about $600 max ($400 plus at most $200 for unseen expenses) in the hole which was cheaper than the $699 Dynavin DVN-E46 kit!
So I charged ahead with the project expecting it being relatively easier and cheaper for me than it normally is and man was I wrong.
PART ONE: COMPLETE BUDGET BREAKDOWN AFTER THE DIY WAS FINISHED-
Money Spent on Complete Retrofit Kit:
$1100 for 2004 MK4 unit, 2007 BM53, Retrofit Wire Harness, HVAC relocation kit, and NON-WORKING CD 16:9 Monitor (that was sold to me under the impression it was new and working).
$700 for a brand new replacement CD 16:9 Monitor
$200 for various parts (mounting brackets in the trunk, trunk trim, trunk tray)
I also ended up spending $600 for other little miscellaneous things I either had to buy or got billed for like:
shipping/ebay/paypal fees ($90) from selling my old parts, buying the 2010 Navigation DVDs and coding to Mk4 to car ($100), a new GPS antenna ($10), the Navigation Aux In kit ($40), The Navigation iPod Data Alpine KCI adapter+ iPod Intravee 2 kit ($300) as well as various screws, bolts and I had to replace both my rear C pillars ($60) that I damaged during the installation.
Money Earned by selling old parts:
$630 made selling my Alpine CD53 MP3 Player ($520 on eBay), USA-Spec iPod Data kit($80), Old CD53 radio bracket ($30)
$140 made selling my Tom Tom Go 720 on eBay
$250 made selling the non-working monitor that came with the first kit
TOTAL SPENT: $2600 - $1020 = $1580
Getting ripped off buying the original kit with a bad monitor is what really set me back money-wise and time-wise as I waited a full month to get a working replacement monitor. :tsk:
My advice is to make sure the parts you buy come with some sort of warranty against fraud and the seller is readily available to refund your money or make some sort of amends on what they sell you. :thumbsup:
PART TWO: COMPLETE DIY PROCESS-
It took me about 12 to 15 hours of actual DIY prep and installation time.
This was before the month-long wait to get all the parts in the car and working (a fully working replacement monitor took a bulk of that time to come in as I literally went thru 3 bad ones before I finally got a brand new working monitor).
The tools required are your basic ratchet kit with 8mm and 10mm being the most used heads. Also a good torx set with T20, T25, T27 and T30 as well as the T50(for the rear seat belts) drivers being mainly used. Electric pliers, a clean dull butter knife or pry tool and a small flat head screw driver were also essential in the retrofit. Also have a scissors, lots of zip ties and electrical tape nearby. Said and done, surprisingly, there are no special tools or any textbook knowledge of using tools required for this DIY.
Knowing what I know now I can DIY this again in about 3-5 hours. Most of the original DIY time is spent figuring out stuff. Like removing the front seat took me less than 5 minutes and the rear seat took even less time but I spent about 1 full hour maybe more figuring out how to remove the two rear seat head rests!
The DIY instructions I was following only said that the head rests each pull right up but didn't mention on some E46 cars they are held in place by stubborn, tiny and impossible to see U clips under the rear deck. It took me about 40 minutes to find this out on my own and another 20 to 30 minutes figuring out how to get the U clips unconnected.
The thing you realize with this DIY, like most DIYs, is that it is really easy to complete once you know what it is you are doing. It is just the little unexpected things you come across that can really stump you (like the rear head rests in my case), but the big scary things you expect to spend all day on is really easy and takes about 5 minutes to remove or install (the front seat in my case).
Here are some pictures from the grueling experience (in the end it was worth it...sort of) :eeps:
Going into this DIY be sure to keep a side-budget of around $100 to $600 for unexpected stuff. The clips on both my C P!llars were old and brittle and broke clean off leaving me to purchase two new replacements from bavarianbmwparts on eBay for about $30 each. I also broke the child seat anchor covers on the rear deck and to my surprise it is a discontinued part at all the USA BMW Dealerships and can only be special ordered thru the Canadian Dealership from Australia. Three weeks shipping and they cost $10 each. I also broke clips on my door sills and B P!llar during the DIY but don't need to replace those since they still anchor into place. But just to show you that you need to expect trim and parts to be brittle with age and to break when you remove them.
Laying the cable was easy I started at the rear seat and attached the rear deck/mid car connectors first: the BM53 antenna, the ground, the Mk4 GPS antenna (the seller who ripped me off with the monitor must have also forgot to pack the antenna so I ended up buying a new one on eBay for about $10). In fact removal of the rear deck was the hardest-to-figure-out part of the DIY.
The front driver seat was easy to remove and I didn't have to take the seat out of the car. I only tilted it out of the way to access the carpet below. And the carpet is already pre-cut and peels back easily. I ran the harness under the sills to the carpet entry point at the base of the B P!llar going under the driver's seat to the center console. Maneuvering the hefty 17pin front end connector head under the carpet up to the console/tranny area was tricky but not difficult. This took about 20 to 30 minutes to do. On the sedan I think it is easier to do than the coupe because I found that I didn't need to cut or make a slit in the carpet at all. Also on the sedan you do not have to remove the front driver seat belt on the B P!llar. There was no real surprises here but it is important to keep your work neat and organize or you can easily lose track of what you are doing.
Even after I got the main two trunk brackets there was still extra mounting brackets, about 20 bolts and body nuts that I needed to get everything mounted properly. Everything is in metric it was hard to track down the correct bolts (here in the USA) and I eventually went to the BMW dealership where nuts and bolts are $1.75 each. In this picture I used a Folgers Coffee container to support the BM53 and the Sirius is taped up and tucked in the back behind the car's frame. I need to get the BM53 bracket and the bracket retaining bolt ($24 at the dealership), a Sirius Receiver bracket kit and the oddment tray that replaces the CD Changer above the MK4 (about $14 at the dealership):
Said and done when all the parts are properly mounted: My car already had a Navigation-ready Sirus Receiver that I also mounted in addition to the BM53, the original HK amp, the MK4, the Alpine KCA-420i iPod adapter, and the Oddments Tray that takes the place of the CD Changer above the MK4 drive.
Also the new trunk wall lining mat trim and tray are needed. I bought the Tray for $30 at the BMW dealership which was the only place I could find it and the Trunk Mat Wall with the CD Changer/Navigation-Door from bavarianbmwparts on eBay for $40:
The drama that ensued at the front. The connections can get messy so it is BEST to work in sections. Finish at the back of the car first before tackling the front. They are more connections at the front of the car that need your undivided attention and care when making them. It only looks scary but it is not and literally should take even the most clumsiest DIYer about an hour to connect everything, replace the HVAC/ashtray and push in the new Monitor. Make sure the battery is still unplugged when you make your connections or you will run into problems (don't me ask how I know).
Also be sure to have a retreat route in the event you complete your project and find one or more of the components are not working and you have to back track. Keeping your old Alpine CD53 Business Radio and Bracket for a few extra days after you finish the DIY is wise. Even if the retrofit wiring is laid down and the components are connected in the trunk you can still re-install your CD53 at the front and use it while waiting for your issues (refunds, shipping time, warranty replacements) to get sorted out.
I waited a month before I got my monitor issues resolved. That was a month without radio or a CD monitor in my car. :(
I literally started this DIY at the start of Labour Day weekend Sept 3rd, 2010 and on October 7th, 2010 I completed it with everything working and coded in the car.
NOTE ABOUT CODING: I had the MK4 coded to the car's ECU even though I was told by a few sources that it is not necessary. I however heard that the MK4 uses information from the ECU and Wheel Sensors in the car for GPS positioning and tracking in the event a signal from the antenna is not present. I don't know much about that but just to be sure I had a 100% legitimate working retrofit I allowed it to be coded to the car. At coding I learned that the car's ECU has the "ability" to recognize that the MK4 is present and that to me is enough evidence that coding must be important.
Also by accident I discovered I didn't need to sell my ck3000/ctppar007 kit and buy the very expensive OEM ULF Bluetooth kit because the ctppar007 connector actually connects to the Nav retrofit cable at the front of the car and provides an even better Bluetooth and Voice Command experience off the BM53 and 16:9 CD Monitor than the CD53 did.
PART THREE: And finally there were some last minute stumpers in this DIY that I managed to solve-
NOTE: Leaving the car's battery unplugged the entire time until after ALL the connections are made-no matter how small it may seem is important.
Sirius Data Connection: the issue was the original pin inputs on the CD changer cable in the front is not only reversed going from 6 to 1 and 7 to 12 but it is upside down as well. So it is double counter-intuitive
AUX: the issue here is the kit you buy for navigation does not seem to come with the right male connector for the "retrofit harness" female connector. I supposed the regular factory harness came with a male connector for the Aux in female connector but if you are retrofitting with a retrofit specific harness you must modify the aux harness female connector to a male connector to fit the retrofit harness's female connector AND you need to swap the pin no.s around so the colours are where they should be.
IPOD DATA: The Intravee II with Alpine KCA-420i iPod Adapter is above all the ultimate option for seamless control and play of your iPod thru the Navigation Monitor. The connections are simple and it connects in the trunk. This set up maybe an inconvenience for some folks that have iPhones and/or prefer their iPods in the cabin nearby hands reach but for me having everything locked safely in the trunk is ideal since I do not like clutter in my dash area and the Monitor and Steering Wheel buttons control EVERY ASPECT of what you need to do in terms of locating, playing and enjoying music from your iPod. Also due to lack of issues with the kit once it is installed in your trunk lining you NEVER need to go back to pull it out again or have to reboot it until you are ready to sell the car. The only two downsides to this kit are the availability (only one website in the UK sells the Intravee II and the Alpine KCA-420i is also semi-rare and mainly located on eBay auctions) and the price (the Intravee II is a solid $250 and the Alpine KCA is about $50 and up on eBay or $100 new). YES: you do need both the Intravee II and the Alpine KCA-420i to get this to work. Here below this picture shows the set up:
Here is a very good video showing most of the main functions and capabilities of the Intravee 2 (w/ Alpine KCA-420i) Adapter of a BMW Navigation Screen.
Before I move on to the next DIY adventure I must give many thanks to everyone that helped out with advice, parts and tips (mainly Belfastman69 for including the Sirius Receiver Bracket, SNA77 for advice, inspiration and providing the original ultimate DIY links, Terraphantm for braving Friday afternoon rush hour traffic in Brooklyn to come code everything to the car , DropTopKing, SolidJake and Steve.325i in Canada for providing unending support, jeffb325@DynavinSolutions for putting up with me & answering EVERY LAST question I had for him)
Also I must especially give praise to MITE46 for doing the original first ever DIY back in 2002 and showing us that these DIYs can be done and should be shared for free among the forums!
And I must thank the kind folks at MT Kisco BMW in Westchester for going out of their way to provide me with ALL the parts I asked for even if they came up as discontinued on the BMW General Parts System.
remember anything is possible...even if it seems super expensive and impossible to DIY.
link to images:
Dynavins look nice but as you know it's pricey. I have an avic f90bt installed diy costed me like 100 bucks and 4 hours (the deck was stripped from my em2)
Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp
Delmarco you are correct it will not function right unless you code it.
The mere fact that the ECU has the "capacity" to recognize that there is an MK4 Navigation in the car sort of suggests that coding is pertinent to the function of the entire navigation retrofit as a whole.
Since I coded my Nav I have had no issues. In fact the Navigation is perfect and better than all the Tom Tom Go devices I've had in the car in terms of start up and location recognition time. It is a fact that the MK4 uses the car's ABS and/or wheel speed sensors to determine precise location of where the car is relative to the map.
Sorry Delmarco...I meant to say "search for 'delmarco' " not "ask delmarco"..haha!
its all good.
I remember when I created my AC recharge DIY thread last Spring/Summer and minutes later there was like 4 or 5 noob threads about AC blowing warm when all they had to do was look a few lines down on the main page to see the DIY for fixing AC issues.
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