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-   -   Opinions on Saiga .308? Who Owns One? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=823108)

GlockMan 02-14-2011 09:28 AM

Opinions on Saiga .308? Who Owns One?
 
I think I am going to buy a Saiga .308

I love my Saiga 7.62x39

I already have an AR (and pump .223)

I do not hunt.

Just looking for something more powerful but manageable for SHTF situation.

They are so cheap (like $500) that I just can't ignore them any longer.

Anyone have one?

Anyone have a REAL reason not to buy one?

I can't find anything negative about them on the net.

NO, I am not looking for a 1000 yard $10,000 sniper rifle.

I figured $500 for the rifle, $200 for a cheap Leupold, $200 in mods.

Under $1000 with high cap mags and a scope.

Let me know your thoughts.

http://www.raacfirearms.com/images/Saiga_308v21.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2...versionnh6.jpg

Reedo302 02-14-2011 11:10 AM

For an inexpensive battle rifle, I think the Saiga 308 is a really good option. Saigas have a good reputation. I think that owning a main battle rifle is a really good thing to do, because having a heavier cartridge can be advantageous. Police departments in out-state/rural areas often equip certain vehicles with heavier weapons like surplus M14s, M1As, or other semi-auto and bolt rifle with larger calibers like the .308, for the sake of shooting longer distances and punching through barriers. This is especially important if shooting at a vehicle or into a structure like a barn or shed.
I would say look into one, or consider another variant that chambers the 7.62x54R. Both hit hard, and ammunition is plentiful. You can run steel case ammo for both calibers too, which will save you a lot of money. I don't recommend steel case for ARs or M1A/M14s, but for the Saiga/AK series, it's just dandy.

What are you thinking of for a scope? Something like a VX-I 2-7x33 or 3-9x40?

GlockMan 02-14-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 12807456)

What are you thinking of for a scope? Something like a VX-I 2-7x33 or 3-9x40?

Yea.

Just something cheap but good quality and better than my eyes. lol.

Like...

LeupoldŽ VX***8482;-I Riflescopes: 3x9, 50mm, 12" for $299

or even

LeupoldŽ VX***8482;-I Riflescopes: 3x9, 40mm, 12" for $229

---------

Do you think you could shoot someone standing still somewhere in the chest at 500 yards with that rifle and scope?

Reedo302 02-14-2011 02:50 PM

When you consider that the average person's torso is 18" high and about 12" wide, it's possible. If the rifle can maintain a minimum of 2 MOA consistent accuracy, you'll have an easier time reliably putting it in the pickle barrel. I'm not sure what the Saiga 308 can do for accuracy though. I would wager that it's at least 3 MOA or better, but how much better I don't know.

As for optics, my suggestion would be to consider going for as low of a number as you can on the lower magnification range. If you have to use it at short range (under 100yds), having as wide of field of view as possible is ideal. 3x is the highest to go on the low end, but 1x-2x would be my preference.

GlockMan 02-14-2011 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 12808518)
When you consider that the average person's torso is 18" high and about 12" wide, it's possible. If the rifle can maintain a minimum of 2 MOA consistent accuracy, you'll have an easier time reliably putting it in the pickle barrel. I'm not sure what the Saiga 308 can do for accuracy though. I would wager that it's at least 3 MOA or better, but how much better I don't know.

As for optics, my suggestion would be to consider going for as low of a number as you can on the lower magnification range. If you have to use it at short range (under 100yds), having as wide of field of view as possible is ideal. 3x is the highest to go on the low end, but 1x-2x would be my preference.

So you would do a 2-7 over a 3-9 even though the optic is smaller?

I guess I could see if they have a 2-7 50mm or something.

Do they make a variable down to 1 like 1-5 or something?

I have a EOTech holographic on my AR, irons on my .223 pump and AK, so I am kinda looking for something normal scope like to have something in each type of category.

GlockMan 02-14-2011 05:07 PM

LeupoldŽ VX-3 Riflescopes

1.5x-5x for $399.99 ---> ouch. I am sure its nice though.

Reedo302 02-14-2011 09:29 PM

Leupold doesn't make a 1-5x, nor do they make a 1-4x. The erectors on most hunting and all tactical scopes are set at 3x, so the best they can pull is 1.25-4x, or 1.5-5x (actual magnification is 1.5-4.5x according to their website). The VX-7 is the only scope Leupold makes with a 4x magnification erector.

With that being said, back to the matter at hand. Having looked through both, there is little difference between the 33mm and 40mm objective lenses during daylight. In the evening and night you'll see a little difference, but nothing that's that significant. 50mm is a good objective size for evening, twilight and night, but it does take up a lot of space and requires a higher mount. And, to be honest, at $299 you're better off going for the VX-II 3-9x40 than the VX-I 3-9x50. The glass does make that much of a difference.
Ultimately, I think a 3-9x would be just fine. If you want the capability of a longer shot, that 9x on the top end will be a big help. The 3x low end isn't too high, so it's workable for closer shots.

Another thing to consider: Leupold's biggest competitor in the hunting scope market is Nikon. Nikons have excellent full lifetime warranties, just like Leupold. However, Nikon sets itself apart by offering more for less. The Nikon Buckmasters scopes are about equal to the VX-II, but cost a lot less. A Buckmasters 3-9x40 w/ BDC reticle costs $219. They have better light transmission and color fidelity than the Leupold VX-II, but the Leupold has better resolution.
The Nikon Monarch series is almost as good as, if not comparable in most ways to, the Leupold VX-III, but the Monarchs cost the same as the VX-IIs.
Both use Japanese glass, but Nikon has a lot more technology with their glass because of their camera and video division.
I'd recommend you get over to a sporting goods store and compare the Buckmasters vs VX-II and see the difference for yourself. You might be pleasantly surprised by how much you get. You'll basically get a VX-II for the price of a VX-I. Just something to consider.

My dad was on the verge of getting a VX-II for his deer rifle until he looked through a Buckmasters and saw that it was just as good and was roughly 2/3 the cost. From a cost savings standpoint, there's a lot to be said about Nikon.
Now, if you can find an older used Leupold VARI-X I or VARI-X II scope that's stamped "Made in USA", buy it. Those are fantastic.

Check out SampleList.com for some used options. They always have a shlt-ton of Leupys and Nikons.
http://www.samplelist.com/Riflescopes-C4.aspx

GlockMan 02-15-2011 11:56 AM

thanks!

Can you think of anything else as good and cool as the Saiga that is as cheap in .308 or similar?

Reedo302 02-15-2011 12:44 PM

The Saiga is the cheapest on the market for a semi-auto battle rifle. Comparable in price would be the CETME, made by Century Arms. It's an HK G3 clone, and retails for around $630, but I've found it for as low as $500 new. The CETME has about 95% parts similarity with the HK91/G3, but a few components are proprietary. For an inexpensive but accurate rifle, it's a great option.
http://gastatic.com/UserImages/3321/...wm_2621915.jpg

Alternative battle rifles would be the DSA STG-58 FAL carbine:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/dsa_stg58t1c.gif




...or the PTR-91. (click to go to website)



However, both of those are $1200 and up. Both are great guns and pretty accurate. All rifles are fickin' heavy, though. So, in the end, it's up to you on what to get. Frankly, I think the Saiga will have the best reliability for the sub $1k category, which may count for something.

MrWesson 02-15-2011 12:55 PM

I have one and its a great rifle and has yet to have a FTF/FTE after about 500rds. Compared to my Cetme .308(spainish hk91 copy) it is a dream.

With a 16" barrel they will clear the firing line(louder than my m38 mosin).


I reload my own .308 so its not too bad but can get pretty expensive. Cheaper than dirt has 20rds of tula ammo for .32 a round for beridan primed/non corrosive steel case or boxer primed brass for .65 a round(wideners).

GlockMan 02-15-2011 02:21 PM

I find it amazing that I can I buy a Saiga .308 or 7.62x39 AND a Glock for less than my HK45. :banghead:

Those HK bastards. :censor:

Cool, I am gonna do it. I did hear that they are loud as hell.

:thumbsup:

Reedo302 02-15-2011 09:54 PM

Saiga should be a good purchase. It's hard to beat that AK-style gas system for reliability.

CETMEs are cheap versions of the PTR-91 and HK-91. The PTR-91 is much better. Still, I don't see them beating the Saiga for utility.

Oh, BTW, did you guys see this past week's episode of Tactical Arms with Larry Vickers? They did the show on the FN FAL. It's amazing how DSA has so drastically improved the design. I will still never buy a FAL (just don't like them), but if I did, I'd definitely have to get a new DSA versus an older version from someone else.

GlockMan 09-17-2011 08:36 PM

Well I did it.

Picked up my Saiga .308.

Most powerful rifle I have personally shot.

(I know its no big deal for you rifle people, but I am a handgun guy.)

I got a silly ridiculous deal and they are getting harder to find so I figured it was time.

Shot 40 rounds at only 25 yards standing with factory sites in a 4" group including every shot and a 2" group counting about 35 rounds. I connected 5 shots in row, etc.

I know its not impressive, but for never shooting that caliber or rifle and using cheap ammo (Magtech), I was happy.

Gotta look for scope and get my 922 parts next.

:woot:

GlockMan 10-11-2011 01:13 PM

OK, money is tight...

Is there any way to get an OK scope that will hold zero with .308 for $100 or less with rail rings?

I know, I know. I just want something to get me by.

I already have the quick release UTG side mount with rails.

It works on both my Saigas and is TIGHT as you want it to be.

I just need rings and a scope, right?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JzhtQUkgL.jpg

I am thinking this might be the best value...
$129 for a Nikon 3-9 40

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Nikon...h-All+Products

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/c...D357J6eU2IUdWD



Thoughts?

Reedo302 10-11-2011 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlockMan (Post 13689935)
OK, money is tight...

Is there any way to get an OK scope that will hold zero with .308 for $100 or less with rail rings?


I just need rings and a scope, right?


I am thinking this might be the best value...
$129 for a Nikon ProStaff 3-9 40

Thoughts?

The whole scope and rings for $100 is very iffy. The only scopes that fit into that category are the Bushnell Banner and the new Weaver Kaspa series. Everything else in that category is absolute junk.

If you can bump up your price range into the $130-$150 for just the scope, you have the Nikon ProStaff, Bushnell Trophy, Weaver 40/44 and the Redfield Revolution.

You just need scope and rings. For rings, I would highly recommend the Weaver tactical rings for $37. They're the cheapest you can get for a quality low-end ring.
http://swfa.com/Weaver-Tactical-6-Ho...ngs-C3146.aspx

GlockMan 10-11-2011 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 13690836)
The whole scope and rings for $100 is very iffy. The only scopes that fit into that category are the Bushnell Banner and the new Weaver Kaspa series. Everything else in that category is absolute junk.

If you can bump up your price range into the $130-$150 for just the scope, you have the Nikon ProStaff, Bushnell Trophy, Weaver 40/44 and the Redfield Revolution.

You just need scope and rings. For rings, I would highly recommend the Weaver tactical rings for $37. They're the cheapest you can get for a quality low-end ring.
http://swfa.com/Weaver-Tactical-6-Ho...ngs-C3146.aspx

Thanks!

So you think ANY Nikon scope would be a good value in the under $150 bracket?

I am sure any scope is better than me, but I dont want junk either.

Maybe a 3-9 or even just a 4x.

Any 4x red dots under $250?

Adam@Euro-Spec 10-11-2011 05:05 PM

Primaryarms.com has a new 3x fixed acogish replica for $180 that is supposed to be decent I have their micro rds and it does everything I ask of it. And awesome customer service.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GlockMan (Post 13690882)
Thanks!

So you think ANY Nikon scope would be a good value in the under $150 bracket?

I am sure any scope is better than me, but I dont want junk either.

Maybe a 3-9 or even just a 4x.

Any 4x red dots under $250?



Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App

Reedo302 10-11-2011 09:47 PM

Nikon is a good company and they back their products. Bushnell is the same way, save their blister pack Chinese cheapy .22 and airgun scopes. Any time you're getting a scope for a very small amount of money, you're going to make sacrifices. With good companies like Weaver, Nikon and Bushnell, you will get good reliability and durability, but the sacrifice comes with the optical quality. For magnification, I'd go for a 2-7x or 3-9x range.

GlockMan 12-05-2011 05:13 PM

Thanks Reedo.

I ended up with a Nikon ProStaff 3-9 x 4 BDC.

I know its not top of the line, but neither is my skill level or budget right now.

It is much nicer that I thought it would be (mail ordered.)

1/4 MOA adjustments and 98% light transmission with a lifetime warranty for under $200 shipped.

:excited::excited::excited:

shwagon 10-03-2012 04:54 PM

Are you still enjoying this rifle? I found one in a pawn shop that was used but had a custom trigger group and a couple of other goodies for $550. I like the idea of owning a battle riffle that shoots NATO rounds, has a historically reliable platform, and cost under $600 (just in case SHTF, probably wont shoot it much).


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