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-   -   Headers with cats found! (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=823471)

murph1379 02-15-2011 06:26 PM

Headers with cats found!
 
Just a heads up to the folks here, looks like Magnaflow does indeed have headers with cats in them. Cost about $1500 together from Jegs:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Magnaflow/642/49758/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Magnaflow/642/49759/10002/-1

They look like they'd flow better than OE, and they're listed as 49-state legal, though I'm guessing they don't flow as well as most of the others, nor weigh as little as the others.

Pictures here:
http://www.magnaflow.com/02catalytic...irectfit=49758

http://www.magnaflow.com/02catalytic...irectfit=49759

TxZHP04 02-15-2011 07:08 PM

Crap, the first price I saw was the suggested MSRP on the Magnaflow web site. At almost $4k I almost fell in the floor. At least the JEGS pricing of $1500 isn't so ridiculous.

So are you going to be the first to pony up the money to install, dyno test, and post sounds clips of them? Would love to see if they post any gains versus stock. With over 112k on my stock cats, it would be nice to know if there was a decent non-stock replacement option.

Activ3 02-15-2011 10:30 PM

I think you'd gain more performance from regular catless headers with cats welded in to the midsection, plus it'd be a lot cheaper...

TxZHP04 02-15-2011 10:52 PM

I think murph is trying to satisfy class rules. As for me, I could make more power with headers and no cats but that's not the point. Moving the cats downstream means having to deal with buying and wiring up an LC-1 as O2 sims and defoulers aren't reliable solutions to passing emissions (which some of us actually have to do) (I'm also not sure if the LC-1 has been tried with an MS45.1 yet). Keeping the cats up in a stock-ish location also means you don't have to bastardize an exhaust to retrofit the cats. As for cheaper, I can get stock replacements for about $1300 which is also cheaper than the Magnaflow through JEGS. If the Magnaflow units flow better than stock, I'd consider them worth their slightly higher price. If they flow the same or worse, I'd just stick with stock.

paraklas 02-16-2011 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxZHP04 (Post 12814451)
Keeping the cats up in a stock-ish location also means you don't have to bastardize an exhaust to retrofit the cats.

The 3rd and 4th catalytic converter on my car are located in the mid-section, so it's kinda OEM for you if you put the cats there. Should also fit just fine. However the post-cat sensors are as we know after 1st/2nd converter.

aggieE46 02-16-2011 07:50 AM

Interesting find.

TxZHP04 02-16-2011 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraklas (Post 12815199)
The 3rd and 4th catalytic converter on my car are located in the mid-section, so it's kinda OEM for you if you put the cats there. Should also fit just fine. However the post-cat sensors are as we know after 1st/2nd converter.

In some parts of the world, yes. In the US we don't have 4 cats. Stock exhausts here have a resonator in that location as do most all aftermarket exhausts... hence my comment about having to hack up a perfectly good exhaust to replace resonators with cats. This is really just an annoyance, the bigger issue is that the DME's emissions logic doesn't like it when you move the cats so far downstream hence the need to spoof it with the LC-1.

murph1379 02-16-2011 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxZHP04 (Post 12813391)
So are you going to be the first to pony up the money to install, dyno test, and post sounds clips of them? Would love to see if they post any gains versus stock. With over 112k on my stock cats, it would be nice to know if there was a decent non-stock replacement option.

Heh, not likely.

The SCCA is figuring out where they're going with cat rules in 2012 right now, so I'll hold out on anything until that's sorted, but $1500 + labor for 10ish(?) hp still puts this mod a bit lower on the priority list. (and the budget is pretty well blown for this year, with the new ZHP and a few other new bits)

I know someone has a contact at Magnaflow on the site, was that Aggie? Before installing these, I'd love to know if they did any testing and saw any performance gain, as well as how much they weigh.

aggieE46 02-16-2011 05:09 PM

I emailed my Magnaflow guy for his best price on these.

murph1379 02-16-2011 05:10 PM

Thanks Aggie, can you see if he has any details like performance increase or weight?

aggieE46 02-16-2011 06:56 PM

He's going to see what he can do on the price, but he said they were a great product. He'd probably cut someone a small break on a set if they would test them out and get some good dyno numbers.

mvrk10256 02-16-2011 07:04 PM

these are worthless I feel. Although I could be wrong.

Quote:

Each is designed to exact the original equipment specifications

TxZHP04 02-16-2011 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggieE46 (Post 12818192)
He's going to see what he can do on the price, but he said they were a great product. He'd probably cut someone a small break on a set if they would test them out and get some good dyno numbers.

Be sure to mention that they are currently a good bit more expensive than OE replacements from the dealership. Faulkner BMW has them listed at $640.51 per bank. If performance is the same as stock, the only thing the Magnaflow has to offer is a better price. Now if they were to flow better than stock....

aggieE46 02-17-2011 06:07 AM

He DID refer to them as an emissions legal header.

What would YOU pay for them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxZHP04 (Post 12818460)
Be sure to mention that they are currently a good bit more expensive than OE replacements from the dealership. Faulkner BMW has them listed at $640.51 per bank. If performance is the same as stock, the only thing the Magnaflow has to offer is a better price. Now if they were to flow better than stock....


TxZHP04 02-17-2011 07:53 AM

Yeah, for an emissions legal offering I wouldn't really expect much in the way of improved performance but you never know. With that in mind, the only thing that would make the Magnaflow competitive in the market place would be a price below dealership pricing. I wouldn't pay more for an aftermarket part than I would for a genuine BMW part unless that part offered something the stock part doesn't (lighter weight, improved flow, etc). $1281 for a set would appear to be the price to beat.

aggieE46 02-17-2011 09:26 AM

I'll pass that on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxZHP04 (Post 12820223)
Yeah, for an emissions legal offering I wouldn't really expect much in the way of improved performance but you never know. With that in mind, the only thing that would make the Magnaflow competitive in the market place would be a price below dealership pricing. I wouldn't pay more for an aftermarket part than I would for a genuine BMW part unless that part offered something the stock part doesn't (lighter weight, improved flow, etc). $1281 for a set would appear to be the price to beat.


murph1379 02-17-2011 10:44 AM

Agreed, I think the key is the flow, and the OE header isn't exactly a tough act to beat. Magnaflow's EPA-certified cats usually do flow better than OE, so I'm sure this unit does flow better than stock, but the big question is how much better. For $1500 I want something that's only giving up a few hp relative to a supersprint or something similar. The price difference between this and no-cat headers + race cats in the exhaust is like $1,000. If what you're paying $1,000 for is emissions peace of mind, with "close enough" performance, I think that's probably just fine. If you're paying an extra $1,000 *and* giving up most of the performance of aftermarket headers, just to be emissions-legal, I don't think they'll sell well, when OE can be had cheaper.

aggieE46 02-17-2011 11:47 AM

John said that these will definitely offer an improvement over stock. No question asked.

He said he can do a price for the forum for $1060, I think that's with free shipping.

This is the same guy that did the Magnaflow GB for the exhaust. PM me if you want his info.

Brady

TxZHP04 02-17-2011 01:29 PM

Found this article from the truck world. Wish they could provide similar flow metrics for our application but this does seem to suggest that the Magnaflow units could flow a little better than stock.

http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticl...ers/index.html

JB_ZHP 02-19-2011 08:08 AM

This is a great find and appears to be great product development on Magnaflow's part. I am interested to see what the actual gains are. I do feel they will not lower their price to where these are a practical application for the average person modding their BMW.

It will not take much to improve the flow over oem headers, if they can do that and pass inspection....they might have something! Running headers myself I enjoy the power gains but HATE the rasp they produce. I am anxious for someone to do some testing on these and post some sound clips!!


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