E46Fanatics

E46Fanatics (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/index.php)
-   General E46 Forum (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Heater no work so good (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=892633)

chris98891 12-19-2011 08:02 PM

Heater no work so good
 
Hey guys, finally got cold enough in South Carolina that i had to roll up the windows and turn on the heat, but it blows out cold air. I doubt it is FSR because there is no problem with air flow (aside from it being cold)

Ideas:
  • I replaced the thermostat right before thanksgiving, may need to be bled again?
  • No visible leaks from expansion tank
  • No low coolant light
  • I've been having some battery issues but I doubt that would affect it

Also, hooked up INPA to get some exact temperatures, thumbnail (click to expand)
Also, in other news, if anybody needs coding done in Greenville, I'll be here for the break
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...01183937PM.jpg

Ideas on what to look at?
Thanks!

My325XI 12-19-2011 08:59 PM

Check the center vent, the wheel should show three red dots. If that's not it, re-bleed with the heat on high, fan on low, three red dots on center vent.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Bimmer

chris98891 12-19-2011 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My325XI (Post 13906101)
Check the center vent, the wheel should show three red dots. If that's not it, re-bleed with the heat on high, fan on low, three red dots on center vent.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Bimmer

Haha that was the first thing i checked (i think we've all made that mistake once)

I'll try to rebleed the system tomorrow in the daylight. Thanks for the suggestion!

My325XI 12-19-2011 10:29 PM

:thumbup:

RKiepper 12-20-2011 02:27 AM

There is a control valve that directs coolant from the engine to the heater core. That may be disconnected, blown fuse(?) or possibly broken. It's right under the intake, attached to the strut tower with three slide in rubber grommet things. Obviously your engine is producing heat, but this valve let's that heat go to the heater core so you don't freeze. Worth a look.

IxNay 12-20-2011 07:59 AM

When my heat stopped working it was the sensor that is built into the control panel on the dash. However, I did get heat when I put the temp to the max (91F I think) but not when I put it any lower.

chris98891 12-22-2011 04:24 PM

Finally cleaned up the garage enough to put my car in, went to start bleeding and the coolant level bobber was broken. has anybody replaced one of these before? Do you have to replace the whole expansion tank, or is it attached to the sensor? I wouldn't be surprised if my coolant level was pretty far off and thats whats causing my issues, whether it be from pressure or something else.

chris98891 12-22-2011 05:04 PM

Also, how bad would it be running a few days without the bobber? The floating part of the bobber is still in there, and i'll just use the length of that plus the stem i pulled out as a judge, but could a bad coolant level do this to my heat?

dmax 12-22-2011 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris98891 (Post 13914862)
Also, how bad would it be running a few days without the bobber? The floating part of the bobber is still in there, and i'll just use the length of that plus the stem i pulled out as a judge, but could a bad coolant level do this to my heat?

S/B 5.5" from the top of the filler neck to the top of the coolant. Your bobber is slightly less buoyant now...not by much, but it's not just low coolant, it's an air bubble caught because maybe you didn't bleed properly when you did the therm...caught a bubble hanging up the flow through the heater core.

Bleed it, and bleed it thoroughly! If it was me, I'd start with pos 2, heater on high, fan on low...then start the engine, rev to 4000 rpms for 20 secs.

Turn off car.

Open ET, fill to 5.5" below (you don't really need an ET if you carry a thin ruler! (I measured a long time ago for another who broke his stick). Do not overfill.

Repeat as necessary.

20 secs. don't do it longer; don't let engine get hot. Some drive up on ramps, others burp the upper hose (squeeze and release slowly), some bleed cold (like me), others hot, and others use the method I mentioned which comes from BMW--I know I saw it in a TIS which I think was for another model. I haven't tried it myself as I haven't had an issue following the instructions for cold bleeding.

But, you're not really filling up from the bottom...with original bleeding (cold), you don't get air bubbles really because you're adding coolant very slowly.

The revving helps push bubbles trapped out.

GL, HTH

chris98891 12-22-2011 09:55 PM

Thank you all for your help so far, here is where i am now.
  • No heat, still. Occasional warm gust at best
  • Pretty sure the heater solenoid works, we can feel it move when switching the heater on and off
  • We're waiting for it to cool for our 4th bleed cycle
  • There are some serious air pockets somewhere.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...222_224027.jpg
Here is the problem, whenever I turn off the car after revving, the line coming from the thermostat becomes totally limp, no pressure at all (marked in yellow in the picture). The line running from the expansion tank to the heater core at no point becomes full, and doesn't ever become nearly as hot as the thermostat-to-expansion tank line. (marked with red arrow)

Here is our routine for bleeding.
Car is cool, open expansion tank, top off. Close expansion tank, start car, open bleed screw until air bubbles stop coming out. Rev for 20 seconds, return to idle, shut off car.

We're now on our 4th cycle, barely had to put in any coolant/water last time.

Any more thoughts?

dmax 12-23-2011 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris98891 (Post 13915660)
Thank you all for your help so far, here is where i am now.
  • No heat, still. Occasional warm gust at best
  • Pretty sure the heater solenoid works, we can feel it move when switching the heater on and off
  • We're waiting for it to cool for our 4th bleed cycle
  • There are some serious air pockets somewhere.
Here is our routine for bleeding.
Car is cool, open expansion tank, top off. Close expansion tank, start car, open bleed screw until air bubbles stop coming out. Rev for 20 seconds, return to idle, shut off car.


We're now on our 4th cycle, barely had to put in any coolant/water last time.

Any more thoughts?

Not sure where you got your bleeding instructions...sounds like they came from here someplace...I know it's not from me.

Try again without opening up the bleeder screw, turn your heater on high, fan on low, and make sure the 3 red dots are showing on the dial between your center vents. Then rev the car for 20 secs.

Although your method might work, I suspect that having the bleeder open reduces the pressure your system would push fluid/air through. I could be totally wrong about this, but I know from the instructions I've read from BMW, there's no method involving keeping the bleeder open while the car is running. This is a unique cooling system...very few cars have it.

Give my method a try and see where you get.

Don't overfill...trust that 5.5" measurement I gave you.

Andy2108 12-23-2011 05:18 AM

Air intake temp of 137.3C :confused:

Do you have any codes?

dmax 12-23-2011 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy2108 (Post 13916229)
Air intake temp of 137.3C :confused:

Do you have any codes?

Nice, Andy! Good catch!

OP, are you getting a weird outside temperature reading? I know there's an intake air temp sensor hiding in the manifold, think around the 2nd cylinder, but there's also an outside air temp sensor hiding under the front bumper. I'm not sure whether the car gets temp from only one of them or not, but that air temp seems too high, and I know that when the 'ambient air temp sensor' goes bad, it registers crazy outside temp readings. If that's bad, that might be another reason why your heater valve won't open...the car thinks it's really hot outside and is trying to protect you!

Check out the sensor and/or wires/connections.

Andy2108 12-23-2011 05:52 AM

Yes, what Doug said. That temp sensor being off could explain why your idle is low. possibly....maybe...

chris98891 12-23-2011 05:34 PM

The outside air thermometer under the front bumper works fine in the OBC, but I am getting PO171 and 174, lambda probe 1 and 2 errors, but have had those for awhile, before the heat went out. Now the interior one might be something to look at...heres a question.
When I put it on auto to bring it down to 59 degrees, it goes full blast on cold. If i do auto at 91 degrees, the fans barely go above 1 bar. Does this mean the interior sensor could be bad/loose?

chris98891 12-23-2011 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmax (Post 13916217)
Not sure where you got your bleeding instructions...sounds like they came from here someplace...I know it's not from me.

Try again without opening up the bleeder screw, turn your heater on high, fan on low, and make sure the 3 red dots are showing on the dial between your center vents. Then rev the car for 20 secs.

Although your method might work, I suspect that having the bleeder open reduces the pressure your system would push fluid/air through. I could be totally wrong about this, but I know from the instructions I've read from BMW, there's no method involving keeping the bleeder open while the car is running. This is a unique cooling system...very few cars have it.

Give my method a try and see where you get.

Don't overfill...trust that 5.5" measurement I gave you.

EDIT: basically what the problem i think i'm running into is....bubbles are still coming out of the bleeder screw when the car reaches temp and opens the thermostat, and therefor spews coolant everywhere. Should I put the cap on the ET before closing the bleeder valve?

I got my method from here:
http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/06/06/86

The problem i ran into when using your method, while idling, after a long enough time, my expansion tank quickly fills and sprays coolant everywhere.
This may be super basic, but i couldn't tell from the TIS instructions....should i have the car running while the top is off the expansion tank? When it says switch on ignition, i took that as turn on car, and not just accessory position.

Could we have overfilled the tank? While using the TIS method, I did notice air bubbles coming out of the bleeder screw. (Until of course, coolant spewed everywhere)

dmax 12-23-2011 08:10 PM

No, key to ignition means the second click, just before you'd continue to push the key to start the car.

"My" method is key in position 2. The car is off, cold. You need to follow directions very closely, and when you're unsure, read more, until you convulse. I don't think you even got dizzy! LOL

Car off. Try again.

HTH...GL

chris98891 12-25-2011 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmax (Post 13917999)
No, key to ignition means the second click, just before you'd continue to push the key to start the car.

"My" method is key in position 2. The car is off, cold. You need to follow directions very closely, and when you're unsure, read more, until you convulse. I don't think you even got dizzy! LOL

Car off. Try again.

HTH...GL

Then maybe it's a problem with my heater solenoid...when i put the key to position 2, heat high or low, i can't get anything to happen at the expansion tank. Nothing moves, no bubbles, nada. Not until i start the car, car reaches temp, and the thermostat opens do i start to see any action up front.

In theory, turning the key to position 2 should trigger the solenoid to divert coolant from the system into the heater core, and therefor start moving coolant/bubbles around the system right?

PS, thank you for all of your help. You've put up with me and my inability to follow directions quite nicely. haha

dmax 12-25-2011 06:47 PM

Pos 2 with heater on is to open the water valve so coolant can flow into the heater core...you wouldn't expect to see anything happening in ET. When car is off, no wp, no circulation. The tis on bleeding is when you fill it up from empty...you need coolant getting into heater core.

If you open up ET cap when the car is running, you be raising the level of coolant, which expands when hot...thus if you fix the level while warm, it will be too low when cold.

Anyway, try again...try just reving to 4000rpm for 20 secs (with heater on/fan on/3 red dots.

Then turn off, open cap, add coolant. You've no need of the bleeder screw now, I don't think.

Repeat this rvving/checking level until your level is stable...keep monitoring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris98891 (Post 13921629)
Then maybe it's a problem with my heater solenoid...when i put the key to position 2, heat high or low, i can't get anything to happen at the expansion tank. Nothing moves, no bubbles, nada. Not until i start the car, car reaches temp, and the thermostat opens do i start to see any action up front.

In theory, turning the key to position 2 should trigger the solenoid to divert coolant from the system into the heater core, and therefor start moving coolant/bubbles around the system right?

PS, thank you for all of your help. You've put up with me and my inability to follow directions quite nicely. haha


chris98891 12-25-2011 07:56 PM

so if I don't need to top off after this cycle, its probably not a bubble? also, does anybody have any ideas on testing the heater solenoid? it sounds like that could be my issue now, we feel it click but don't know if its stuck


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use