E46Fanatics

E46Fanatics (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/index.php)
-   Gun Talk (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=102)
-   -   First AR Build, Advice Needed! (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=896862)

OkStateMET 01-12-2012 09:41 PM

First AR Build, Advice Needed!
 
So I have been doing a bit of reading and Im ready to start my AR build. Im going to start with the lower first, then go from there.

I like the Spikes stripped lower and can get one local for $115. Is this a good Deal?

In addition, I have found a lower parts kit with Magpul MOE, stock, grip and Palamtto State Parts for $125.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/598.php

What do you think? about $250ish total

Any better recommendation or good build instructions?

Reedo302 01-13-2012 12:42 AM

For your AR, what is your purpose for it/intended use?
How much are you able to spend on the rifle alone (no optics)?
What is your optics or sight budget?

Spikes is a good place to start for a lower. $115 for an over-the-counter price is fair, and you're getting good quality.
If you can't afford anything better, then go ahead and try the PSA; though I would make sure to do a thorough inspection with their products. They have not been vetted in the tactical shooting arena like other companies like Spikes, Daniel Defense, Rock River Arms, CMT/Stag, etc. If you can afford better, I would spend for better. Don't cut costs for the sake of just cutting costs. Of the areas where you can save money, the lower parts kit (LPK) is not one of those places where you should try to cut corners (the others being bolt carrier group, lower and upper receivers). Companies that have proven track records of good quality control (QC) are the ones you should buy from. PSA is still new, and I would just assume let others be the test guinea pigs to determine the quality and reliability of the parts. I have seen a PSA lower take a massive dump on the range, so my personal opinion of them is not particularly high at this time and won't be until I start to see some more positive evidence of their quality. Personally, I'd put in a Spikes or Daniel Defense LPK. I'd much rather have an A2 pistol grip with a quality LPK, than a Magpul or other aftermarket grip at the expense of having to install a LPK from an unproven company. While there are deals to be had out there, most AR parts and accessories have a quality commensurate with their cost. You get what you pay for, and the phrase "buy once, cry once" really holds true.

OkStateMET 01-13-2012 10:48 AM

^Thanks for the Input

I Would like to find the time to try 3 Gun competition, but mostly it will be a range rifle. I don't plan on cutting corners looking to spend around 800 for the whole build, not including optics. Could you recommend a place to buy a better LPK and I could source the MOE stock and grip from their.

For the upper (haven't decided on a brand yet):
5.56 NATO
1/7 twist
Chrome lined barrel and particle inspected
Quad Rail w/ AFG
Flip front and rear MBUS
Other optics will come later.

Is there any accuracy sacrificed with flip sights?

Reedo302 01-13-2012 11:36 AM

Are you looking for an assembled upper, or do you want to assemble it yourself (and have the tools)?

OkStateMET 01-13-2012 12:52 PM

^ I not been able to find a complete upper I like so I will probably build and buy the tools too.

SamDoe1 01-13-2012 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkStateMET (Post 13975331)
For the upper (haven't decided on a brand yet):
5.56 NATO
1/7 twist
Chrome lined barrel and particle inspected
Quad Rail w/ AFG
Flip front and rear MBUS
Other optics will come later.

I'm in the same boat as you, planning on building my first one soon. I have NOT been able to put together a quality build out for ~$800 or less that includes a quad rail or a free float rail of any kind. Those parts alone run ~$250ish depending on the length you want. My solution is to get a Magpul MOE hand guard and add in the rail sections to that. I figure that it would still look good, hold all the accessories I want, be lighter, and easier to hold on to.

I'm not an expert by any means, I'm far from it, but that's just my 2 cents. FWIW, I'm going to go with a Spikes Tactical assembled upper 16in barrel in 5.56. All you have to do is add a charging handle and it's done.

OkStateMET 01-13-2012 01:00 PM

Reedo32, can you recommend any quality complete uppers with what im looking for?

speedcrazy1532 01-13-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkStateMET (Post 13975738)
Reedo32, can you recommend any quality complete uppers with what im looking for?

Much of the stuff you're listing like the front grip and back-up sights are stuff that is usually added and not included in purchasing a fully assembled upper.

Can I ask why you want the 1:7 twist?

Serbonze 01-13-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkStateMET (Post 13975331)
^Thanks for the Input

I Would like to find the time to try 3 Gun competition, but mostly it will be a range rifle. I don't plan on cutting corners looking to spend around 800 for the whole build, not including optics. Could you recommend a place to buy a better LPK and I could source the MOE stock and grip from their.

For the upper (haven't decided on a brand yet):
5.56 NATO
1/7 twist
Chrome lined barrel and particle inspected
Quad Rail w/ AFG
Flip front and rear MBUS
Other optics will come later.

Is there any accuracy sacrificed with flip sights?

Have you used the MOE grip or an AFG? Have you used an AR without them? If not, it sounds like you are adding accessories without being familiar with the rifle first.

As far as optics, do you plan on a red dot or a scope?

Serbonze 01-13-2012 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 (Post 13975732)
All you have to do is add a charging handle and it's done.

I'm pretty sure that every Spikes upper comes with the charging handle.

Serbonze 01-13-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkStateMET (Post 13975738)
Reedo32, can you recommend any quality complete uppers with what im looking for?

I'm not Reed, but I would say anything from Daniel Defense, BCM, Spikes, are good to go. I would throw Smith and Wesson in there too if you are not married to the 1/7 twist. You will have to check each offering though, as not all will come with the BCG and charging handle. You may also want to check out Palmetto State Armory complete uppers, as they seem to use quality parts. They are still very new though.

If you want to build it yourself, $800 should be okay if you don't count the back up sights. If you want a complete upper, that will be pushing your budget.

OkStateMET 01-13-2012 01:53 PM

^ I have used the MOE grip, but not the AFG. I have long arms so I like the idea of having something to hold onto. Im just going to go with Iron sights and learn the basics of the rifle and then upgrade to a red dot.

I recently read a good article about 1:7 twist for 5.56
http://forums.officer.com/showthread...y-an-AR-15-huh

Wraisil 01-13-2012 02:06 PM

1/7 twist is only better for ammo that costs more to shoot than 55gr. For range use, you'll be shooting 55gr fmj 99% of the time, so why spend the extra money on the upper and extra money on the ammo? If you're not building a combat rifle, there is no advantage of going to 1/7 twist. If you are building a precision target rifle, then stick with a .223 upper to maximize precision. Just my 2c's.

SamDoe1 01-13-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serbonze (Post 13975886)
I'm pretty sure that every Spikes upper comes with the charging handle.

Really? The list of what it includes doesn't say charging handle...I'll have to call and make sure before I order.

Have you tried out a PSA upper yet? Anything good or bad to say about it? I know Reedo won't endorse it because they are so new, just checking around to see what your experiences are.

Serbonze 01-13-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 (Post 13975986)
Really? The list of what it includes doesn't say charging handle...I'll have to call and make sure before I order.

Have you tried out a PSA upper yet? Anything good or bad to say about it? I know Reedo won't endorse it because they are so new, just checking around to see what your experiences are.

I think it's a given, but I certainly could be wrong.

I have no first hand experience with PSA. I'm just repeating information that I have read and passing it along as another possibility. I think Reed was referring to the lower though.

SamDoe1 01-13-2012 02:33 PM

Double Post.

SamDoe1 01-13-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serbonze (Post 13976018)
I have no first hand experience with PSA. I'm just repeating information that I have read and passing it along as another possibility. I think Reed was referring to the lower though.

I discussed the upper with him in a PM conversation. But thank you for your input!

Serbonze 01-13-2012 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 (Post 13976056)
I discussed the upper with him in a PM conversation. But thank you for your input!

:thumbup:

OkStateMET 01-13-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraisil (Post 13975961)
1/7 twist is only better for ammo that costs more to shoot than 55gr. For range use, you'll be shooting 55gr fmj 99% of the time, so why spend the extra money on the upper and extra money on the ammo? If you're not building a combat rifle, there is no advantage of going to 1/7 twist. If you are building a precision target rifle, then stick with a .223 upper to maximize precision. Just my 2c's.

Thanks for the input, could you recommend a site to buy from?

Reedo302 01-13-2012 05:05 PM

Here are a couple of thoughts and options.

First, the 3-Gun use. For initially breaking into 3-Gun, any AR is pretty much fine. If you want to get competitive, a standard AR won't cut the mustard. There are general ARs, combat ARs and competition ARs. The question is what you want. General ARs do everything OK, but nothing great. Combat ARs are profoundly reliable, durable, tough, able to shoot a wide variety of ammo, and tend to be lighter or more compact. Competition ARs tend to be a lot heavier and are designed for accuracy and speed, and sacrifice durability and reliability. If you want to get more involved in 3-Gun, you will eventually need to do some significant upgrades to your rifle to stay competitive and to stave off peer pressure from the 3-gun zealots.

If you do want to do 3-Gun, a 1:7 twist barrel is a better barrel option, as it gives you the ability to stabilize heavier match bullets in the 69-77gr weight. Barrel twist is actually relative to bullet velocity, not bullet weight. The lower the velocity, the tighter the needed twist. Such is why you cannot have an SBR (under 16" barrel) with a 1:9 or 1:12 twist barrel and expect any reasonable performance. The difference in barrel twist will relate to what bullets your barrel will stabilize better. While a 1:9 twist barrel will stabilize 55gr better, it will not stabilize anything heavier than 62gr very effectively. For the barrels in your price range, you will never be able to see any marked difference in the accuracy of 55gr-62gr ammunition when you compare 1:9 twist to 1:7 twist. If you were running a high-end match barrel, it'd be a different story. For a carbine barrel, the difference is negligible and favors the greater utility and flexibility of the 1:7 twist.

If you want to start with a less expensive setup, look into building a setup with Del-Ton. I would suggest a midlength upper with a 16" barrel. Use this link to put together a rifle kit of your choice, with MOE accessories and a YHM rail, etc. It has everything you want, and will come out around the price you want to spend. The setup I built that matches your design came in at $677. It includes everything but the lower receiver. Make sure to select the chrome-lined barrel, either in 1:9 or 1:7. Both are the same price, but again, 1:7 is more versatile. Del-Ton is a lower tier company that still sells decent parts.
http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt104.htm

If you want something more specific in your build, let me know.

Don't get too specific or custom on your initial rifle setup. The issue that comes in is that you will need to outfit your rifle to fit your intended primary use. When people get a rifle and configure it right away without much experience, they will most certainly change it. There is a line between a "working setup" and just being "tacticool". When you look at people who have had ARs for a while and have multiple ARs, you'll notice that all of their rifles are configured the same way. Many members here exemplify that. When i go to training courses, you can tell who the newer shooters are, because they're the ones that come in after lunch on Day 1 with a different rifle configuration than when they started in the morning. It takes time to figure out what you want, what you like, and what you don't want/don't like. Don't spend too much money on accessories until you have some time behind the rifle. An AFG is not a very expensive accessory, but be aware that something like half of all users wind up ditching it for a vertical foregrip (VFG) or for a simple handstop. Go ahead and try the AFG if you want, but don't be married to it if you don't like it. Be flexible with your configuration until you determine what you like.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use