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-   -   Amps and MS-8 installed! (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=904301)

radarcontact 02-19-2012 01:57 AM

Amps and MS-8 installed!
 
6 Attachment(s)
I'm very happy with my system now, but that doesn't mean that I'm done! But the power and processing section of the system are complete; they look and sound great!

The system consists of:

Power and electronics section:
- BMW business factory head unit (w/factory amp bypassed)
- JBL MS-8 signal processor/equalizer/time alignment unit (with amber gel-treated display to match interior lights)
- Alpine MRP-F240 running:
- - front tweeters at 40 watts per channel
- - rear fill speakers at 40 watts per channel
- ARC Audio xdi805 running:
- - single subwoofer at 400 watts
- - front mid-bass at 240 watts per channel

Speakers:
- CDT 6.5" front mid-bass drivers*
- Massive Audio front tweeters*
- CDT 5.25" coax rear fill drivers
- Image Dynamics 12" sub driven a 2 ohms (in my own custom fiberglass enclosure)

*these speakers will be replaced with DLS Reference drivers very soon...

Attachment 437724

Attachment 437725

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Attachment 437728

Attachment 437729

Bimmekid91 02-19-2012 02:15 AM

That is a clean setup. WIN!!

TurnersInOz 02-19-2012 02:38 AM

Radar, I just installed the MS-8 today as well. Not nearly as nice as yours, great job!
Question for you: How did you wire the inputs to the MS-8? I am using the high level inputs (coming from factory nav HU) but the MS-8 does not see the rear speakers. If I put the amp in 2 ch mode they come on so I know they are fine.
Any suggestions?
Where'd you get the sub enclosure? That really looks awesome!

Thank you,
Scott

radarcontact 02-19-2012 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnersInOz (Post 14097413)
Radar, I just installed the MS-8 today as well. Not nearly as nice as yours, great job!
Question for you: How did you wire the inputs to the MS-8? I am using the high level inputs (coming from factory nav HU) but the MS-8 does not see the rear speakers. If I put the amp in 2 ch mode they come on so I know they are fine.
Any suggestions?
Where'd you get the sub enclosure? That really looks awesome!

Thank you,
Scott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmekid91 (Post 14097378)
That is a clean setup. WIN!!


First off, thanks for the kind words!

I am not 100% on the OEM nav unit, but I'm assuming they are very similar. All you need to do is pull the signal from the two front speakers between the HU and the OEM amp. That's BEFORE the amp. A guy on here TECHNICS sells a harness that makes life really easy, but it's $75. But either way, that signal gets soldered to the channel 1/2 input wires on the MS-8. IMPORTANT: Make sure all unused wires (input harness and output harness) are sealed individually from each other through use of copious amounts of electrical tape, etc.; they are always hot even if not used. When you say the MS-8 doesn't see the rear speakers, what do you mean by that? The 8 will "make" a signal for all of the speakers from just the front left and right signals. What powers the rears? Can you break down your power structure for me, sorta like i did, but simply?)
In your setup, you are telling the 8 that you have rears, correct?

I built the sub enclosure myself. It's about .8 cubic feet, which is perfect for the IDQ12v2.D4 (my subwoofer driver). I have seen some nice setups using the ski-pass, etc. but the back corner seems to be optimal, so that's what I had to have! Lol

Let me know, I can try to help whatever way I can. You can call me if that would be easier. Pm me for the number, if so.

TurnersInOz 02-19-2012 04:03 PM

Thank you Radar, I suppose a bit of clarity on my setup would help! (Sorry 'bout that)
From the radio I've got four channels out. This used to run into a four channel amp, which has now been replaced by the MS-8 and an MB Quart four channel amp. The MS-8 also feeds another MB Quart that powers the sub.
Since the BMW harness was already cut for the old amp, I simply re-made those splices and ran them into the MS-8 hi level input. Ch 1 = LF, Ch 2 = RF, Ch 3 = LR, Ch 4 = RR, Ch 5/6 = Sub.
During the MS-8 xover setup, the fronts are seen (i.e. I can set the type, one way in this case as they have their own crossover) but when I get to the rear the MS-8 reports (none), and this is the only option I have.
After I've completed the setup the fronts are working, but I've got nothing from the rears.
And yes, I've individually taped all the unused inputs!

radarcontact 02-19-2012 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnersInOz (Post 14098568)
Thank you Radar, I suppose a bit of clarity on my setup would help! (Sorry 'bout that)
From the radio I've got four channels out. This used to run into a four channel amp, which has now been replaced by the MS-8 and an MB Quart four channel amp. The MS-8 also feeds another MB Quart that powers the sub.
Since the BMW harness was already cut for the old amp, I simply re-made those splices and ran them into the MS-8 hi level input. Ch 1 = LF, Ch 2 = RF, Ch 3 = LR, Ch 4 = RR, Ch 5/6 = Sub.
During the MS-8 xover setup, the fronts are seen (i.e. I can set the type, one way in this case as they have their own crossover) but when I get to the rear the MS-8 reports (none), and this is the only option I have.
After I've completed the setup the fronts are working, but I've got nothing from the rears.
And yes, I've individually taped all the unused inputs!

I would try this:
1) Only connect the front left to channel 1 input and front right to channel 2 input. These should be full range signals and it's all the ms-8 needs. And that's perfect that you taped off the rest individually to protect them.
2) In SETUP, tell MS-8 you have sides, no rears. I think if you tell it you have no sides, it will assume you have no rears either. It's just a label and won't change anything...call the rears "sides".
3) Make sure your sub is assigned to channel 7 OR 8. Anything else and it won't work.
4) If the 8 won't be powering any speakers (sounds like it isn't), then don't even connect the output harness. If it is, tape off all wires that are not used, just like you did with the inputs.

Let me know what happens. I think #2 (above) is your problem-solver! TRY IT FIRST.

radarcontact 02-19-2012 06:09 PM

Also, try setting your MS-8 volume at -40 for the calibration process since you are using high power amps. And your gains on your amps should be around 2v which is usually around 10 o'clock position. Turn off all other processing, loudness, balance centered, treble/bass/mid controls centered (off), etc. Another thing that I did was to have the wife come do the calibration for the passenger seat -- I stayed in the driver seat, motionless, and she ran the calibration movements for the passenger seat. Here's why: There are times when I am the only one in the car, BUT, you can't drive from the passenger seat, so if you are trying to impress the passenger using the PASSENGER setting, most likely you will be in the driver's seat, so why not let the MS-8 compensate for your body mass and possible speaker obstruction? :evil:

TurnersInOz 02-19-2012 08:19 PM

Thank you very much Radar, much appreciated!
I'll have a look at the settings on the amps in the next day or so. After that I'll re-run the setup.
I like the idea of having someone in the passenger seat, I was curious about that as well.

Reach 02-19-2012 10:08 PM

Good work, good equipment, and signals used correctly. Many more here could do to learn from what you're done! I bet it sounds schweeet too!



(PS: I would have been driven crazy by the doa ms8 as well, and never assumed the new equipment would fail. erg.)

jeffb325@NavigationSolutions 02-19-2012 10:15 PM

yeah.....MS-8 is an nice piece.....I almost lost my mind getting it right..... but oh how right it is!

radarcontact 02-19-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb325@DynavinSolutions (Post 14099567)
yeah.....MS-8 is an nice piece.....I almost lost my mind getting it right..... but oh how right it is!

Lol, yeah, it's like that "trust exercise" where you fall backwards into someone else's arms. You have to let the ms-8 do it's thing...no crossover settings, no tone settings, no balance, no fade, ugh! It's frikkin' hard to let go, ain't it?? ;)

Scott, something you might want to do is put a small capacitor in line with the tweeters, one thats a value that's lower than your cover freq. It's always a good idea when going active. Just in case your system has a hiccup, the tweeter won't get fried. I learned this too late, and my favorite set of silk domes went into the trash can.

jeffb325@NavigationSolutions 02-19-2012 11:16 PM

Haha, trust exercise! Exactly, trust Andy W! It will all be OK....

radarcontact 02-19-2012 11:17 PM

There's a good link for you:

http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=1

It'll be about a 22uf (microfarad) jobbie on each side. If you get a non-directional, it won't matter how you connect it.

radarcontact 02-19-2012 11:19 PM

Ha! Noooooo sh*t, huh? St. Andrew...

TurnersInOz 02-20-2012 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radarcontact (Post 14099742)
There's a good link for you:

http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=1

It'll be about a 22uf (microfarad) jobbie on each side. If you get a non-directional, it won't matter how you connect it.

Thanks!

Dirtboy 02-20-2012 02:24 PM

Real nice setup you got there. My question is how did you change the display color on the MS8? I'd like to do that to mine as well. I've got one in my e30 and love it. The e46 is next...

radarcontact 02-22-2012 11:17 PM

Got a piece of photographic gel film from a buddy and put it in between the display and the glass. :)
Here's how I got there:
http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116410

Grande D 02-23-2012 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnersInOz (Post 14097413)
Radar, I just installed the MS-8 today as well. Not nearly as nice as yours, great job!
Question for you: How did you wire the inputs to the MS-8? I am using the high level inputs (coming from factory nav HU) but the MS-8 does not see the rear speakers. If I put the amp in 2 ch mode they come on so I know they are fine.

Thank you,
Scott

Scott- did you ever get this issue resolved? I'd like to use all four of the nav unit's channel outputs into the MS-8 if at all possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radarcontact (Post 14098847)
Also, try setting your MS-8 volume at -40 for the calibration process since you are using high power amps. And your gains on your amps should be around 2v which is usually around 10 o'clock position. Turn off all other processing, loudness, balance centered, treble/bass/mid controls centered (off), etc. Another thing that I did was to have the wife come do the calibration for the passenger seat -- I stayed in the driver seat, motionless, and she ran the calibration movements for the passenger seat. Here's why: There are times when I am the only one in the car, BUT, you can't drive from the passenger seat, so if you are trying to impress the passenger using the PASSENGER setting, most likely you will be in the driver's seat, so why not let the MS-8 compensate for your body mass and possible speaker obstruction? :evil:

Do you find it necessary to switch "maps"? I'd ideally like to have one map and unplug the display after setup, but I don't know how much of a compromise that'd be...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb325@DynavinSolutions (Post 14099567)
yeah.....MS-8 is an nice piece.....I almost lost my mind getting it right..... but oh how right it is!

Quote:

Originally Posted by radarcontact (Post 14099719)
Lol, yeah, it's like that "trust exercise" where you fall backwards into someone else's arms. You have to let the ms-8 do it's thing...no crossover settings, no tone settings, no balance, no fade, ugh! It's frikkin' hard to let go, ain't it?? ;)

So does the MS-8 actually set the crossovers? Or are you talking about crossovers that Andy recommends? IIRC the best is 85hz/24db HP on the front midbass, and a 1khz/24db crossover between the midwoofer and the midrange/tweeter for stock speakers... I read somewhere on diyma.

Also Jeff, care to elaborate on what drove you crazy about it?

radarcontact 02-23-2012 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhp43867 (Post 14114855)
Scott- did you ever get this issue resolved? I'd like to use all four of the nav unit's channel outputs into the MS-8 if at all possible.

Shouldn't be necessary. The 8 will just sum them anyway if you do. So if your fronts are full range and your rears are full range, or anything less than full range, it will just add everything together and you will end up with...full range. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhp43867 (Post 14114855)
So does the MS-8 actually set the crossovers? Or are you talking about crossovers that Andy recommends? IIRC the best is 85hz/24db HP on the front midbass, and a 1khz/24db crossover between the midwoofer and the midrange/tweeter for stock speakers... I read somewhere on diyma.

You "unf^ck" your factory eq curve to flat, then you tell the 8 what your speaker config is, you tell it what freqs to cross at, you tell it what slope to cross those freqs at, you verify that you are getting sound from the places you told it about, then you calibrate by wearing the microphone headset and following the directions on the screen ("look straight ahead") while the unit generates sweeps and tones. It says done, you enjoy music that seems to come less from the speakers themselves and more from a general area of the vehicle (hopefully up and centered over the dash).
(1k is very low BTW, I'd be careful with that.)

radarcontact 02-23-2012 08:24 PM

DLS Reference comps are on the way...can't wait!


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