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-   -   SMG II gear change problems (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=912046)

MoOriginal 03-27-2012 04:53 AM

SMG II gear change problems
 
Ok guys thought id post over here to see what you knowledgable peeps might think

Long story short.
I have a 2002 m3 Convert.
88K

I recently had the diff replaced as central bearing had issues and leaking seals too.
At the time I had terrible judder
and when they took out the clutch to replace it they found the clutch so badly worn that it was frayed at the edges

New clutch fitted

So work done.
1. Diff fitted
2. New clutch
3. SMG fluid replacement for new
4. Diff oil - and friction modifer
5. SMG adaptations
6. New Salmon relay

Heres the problem

On full power - that is gunning it between
2nd into 3rd
3rd to 4th

I get a lag - the gear engages after a visible pause in power - and there is a sound from under the car - best described as a 'clacking' sound
like if you beat two pieces of two by four wood planks :banghead:

There is a double 'clack' - and pause as car goes into gear between 2nd -3rd and 3rd - 4th.

All other gears are perfect and no problems, sounds etc.

Blipping on downshifts are fine

Downshifting into 3rd or 4th - does have a delay and car does not select the lower gear until its happy in the problem gears only.

In other gears the downshifting is fine...

Can anyone throw any suggestions

Someone mentioned to me syncromesh ?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Mo

johnm 03-27-2012 05:39 AM

Better off sticking with Cutters IMHO...

Most likely culprit are the indent springs, however in order to eliminate a couple of other possibilities the first thing you need to do is get a full SMG re-adaption, not the half baked one that the cheap hobbyist systems do, as they often are only capable of doing the clutch. This will eliminate the GPT and possibly even cure the problem if it's only GPT out of cal. If the adaption fails and tells you to replace the gearbox then it's almost guaranteed to be indent springs, which are cheap, but a pain to replace. Ask on Cutters and you'll likely find someone nearby who's done it.

Be aware that when you do the adaption, if it fails, things may get much worse, to the point of being nearly undriveable, giving all the symptoms of a badly slipping clutch. Panic not, replace the indent springs and do the adaption again- most important, and it'll be sublime.

Cheers
JM

MoOriginal 03-27-2012 05:56 AM

Haha thanks John

Thing is this - I forgot to mention in list of things done

When they had the gearbox off - they found that I had the earlier version of the gearbox.
So basically this meant that only 2 out of the 4 springs were serviceable in the gearbox
the other 2 were blocked up - I actually saw this for myself

seems the later design allowed the servicing of all 4 springs

I had the 2 springs that were servicable - replaced for new.
The old springs although hard to tell - looked ok ...

The adaptation was as far as I know a full one - as they used a specialist technician...

You mention GPT and GPT out of cal - what is that ?

johnm 03-29-2012 08:49 AM

I think someone's having a lend, there's only one version of the gearbox. A couple of the indent springs are behind plugs that look not unlike welchplugs and are well nigh impossible to get out without damaging, but they're not blanking plugs, there's deffo springs behind them.

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...87&hg=23&fg=15

The gpt is the gear position sensor/ transducer, but somene's already stolen the gps acronym...

Cheers
JM

MoOriginal 03-30-2012 03:34 AM

thanks john

I have seen the gearbox off and had a look at the said ident springs mounting points actually myself .
visually you can see that the mounting points are blanked by these plugs as you say

but the question is this if the garage manage to get to these 2 springs
and replace them
how then to plug up the holes again - and damaged plugs

Ive seen the diagrams also as there are 2 versions
one were you can extract all 4 springs and one where the diagram only shows extracting of 2 springs

roadtrip1098 03-30-2012 07:10 AM

A few things you can check. Some sound dumb, but sometimes the simplist solution works the best.

Have you tried doing the rolling reset so the system will "re-learn" the shifting? Just slap the car into N while you're rolling and pull back both paddles for 3-5 seconds. There's no confirmation that it has worked other than the behavior when it shifts.

Have you tried setting drive logic lower for "softer engagement"? The new clutch may bite harder and be causing issues.

How'd the rubber flex disc/guibo look?

Is it possible that they didn't use the right tourque when reinstalling the springs?

Is it possible that you received a defective clutch?

Could the flywheel be dirty or warped?

Did you have the pressure plate changed?

MoOriginal 03-30-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtrip1098 (Post 14242315)
A few things you can check. Some sound dumb, but sometimes the simplist solution works the best.

Have you tried doing the rolling reset so the system will "re-learn" the shifting? Just slap the car into N while you're rolling and pull back both paddles for 3-5 seconds. There's no confirmation that it has worked other than the behavior when it shifts.

Have you tried setting drive logic lower for "softer engagement"? The new clutch may bite harder and be causing issues.

How'd the rubber flex disc/guibo look?

Is it possible that they didn't use the right tourque when reinstalling the springs?

Is it possible that you received a defective clutch?

Could the flywheel be dirty or warped?

Did you have the pressure plate changed?

Thanks for the comments

Pressure plate was changed and the flywheel was fresh out of the kit with new clutch

The springs changed were the small ones held in by a press fit cap so no torque settings

Rubber flex disc was changed

Didn't change the drive logic was just left same as my original settings
Also a rolling reset wasn't done

roadtrip1098 03-30-2012 02:02 PM

I would suggest trying the rolling reset, it's free and easy to do with absolutely no negative impact. It is unlikely that it will solve your issue, but hey it's free and if it does work you just saved yourself a buttload of time and money.
Did they by chance bleed the hydraulic system? I know you said they reset it, but if I understand right the system must also be bled properly.

Also if it's the GPS that's gone bad, which can happen, it is a pain to install, but can be done in your driveway, no lift needed. I posted a DIY with pics and everything a while back, it outiines the symptoms pretty well too.

MoOriginal 03-30-2012 02:17 PM

By rolling reset do you mean on the paddles held in?
In which case I have done that twice

I'll have a look for your gps posting as didn't look at that..

I'm sure they said they bled the system..I'll double check

roadtrip1098 03-30-2012 02:29 PM

Here's the link for that GPS DIY http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=878863

MoOriginal 03-31-2012 01:51 AM

So,after reading that thread seems like your an expert too like John
:thumbup:

Reading your symptoms I don't seem to have similar gps issues??
It goes into gear fine doesn't feel,sluggish in any other gear.

Once the clacking gear change happens gears are great
No juddering
No cog light

I've noticed now that if i,lift between 3rd to 4th on full power the clacking change is a bit better
I tried same in 3rd but didn't work

But between 2nd to 3rd above 3000 revs on full power it will always make this horrible change
If I'm not hard on pedal then it changes smoothly
Perhaps it seems to change smoothly as the clacking noise and pause is,still happening but you feel,it less as with a slower gear change you expect a pause in the power more .....

MoOriginal 03-31-2012 01:54 AM

Also does this make sense

When I had original juddering problem It started off between 2-3 3-4
This got worse and it started happening in all gears so quickly realised that the clutch needed replacing
However didn't get clutch replaced for about 2 months due to needing car as daily driver for work

So did the car store in memory the readings or problems with these gears that it then carried over to the new clutch ?

roadtrip1098 03-31-2012 04:58 AM

I'm no expert but I read a book or two on the smg. Where you said the problem occurred before and after the clutch change, it makes me think there's a loose support or a mount going bad someplace. If you're on a slight incline in first, come to a complete stop, let the car roll back just a little, then take off quickly does it make the same noise?

MoOriginal 04-02-2012 06:21 AM

Thanks for the info dude.
Anything is appreciated of course

I tried what you said - and nailed it
no sound
the car has brutal changes as expected in 1st and 2nd

MoOriginal 04-10-2012 10:24 AM

Someone also mentioned that the syncro might need replacing

does anyone think this is a good idea ?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...onizzatore.jpg

khawejaa 02-15-2013 07:11 PM

hello guys i need ur help what does this code mean?
(048) 30 gear can not be engaged

Chea 02-15-2013 08:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This came on but the car seems to be driving fine replaced the salmon relay and did the soft reset and nothing. Guess best step is getting it scanned. Fingers crossed


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