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-   -   3 Gun Match (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=918276)

deliroast 04-27-2012 12:54 PM

3 Gun Match
 
Thinking about getting into 3 gun competitions. Any advice, tips or things I should know?

Reedo302 04-27-2012 10:00 PM

Some questions for you:

1. Do you have a league or regular competition venue near you?

2. What class do you want to get into?

3. What experience do you have with competition shooting?

4. How serious do you want to get into this?

5. What gun(s) do you have now that you plan on using?

6. What gun(s) are you looking at getting (if applicable)?

deliroast 04-28-2012 05:44 AM

Some questions for you:

1. Do you have a league or regular competition venue near you?
Yes, now have a regular spot around here.

2. What class do you want to get into?
Limited

3. What experience do you have with competition shooting?
Zero experience comp shooting

4. How serious do you want to get into this?
Not serious enough to spend thousands but want to be competitive. I know ill probably end up at least another 1500 to start. Assuming anyways.

5. What gun(s) do you have now that you plan on using?
Ak47, Rem 870

6. What gun(s) are you looking at getting (if applicable)?
Looking at getting either a Sig P6, XD9 fullsize or M&P9

Reedo302 04-28-2012 02:58 PM

If you are getting into 3-Gun, you can only go so far with an AK and an 870. AKs are fine for close range, but you should opt to get a US Palm/Midwest Industries rail optic mount and get a red dot sight on the rifle. This will greatly increase your speed for target acquisition and follow-up shots. Then, look into getting an upgraded brake. If you're just using a slant-brake or a krink brake, and you have the 14mm reverse threads, look into the BattleComp AKBC or Primary Weapon Systems PWS brakes. They'll keep the rifle level and again, help speed up followup shots. If you are using an AK103 style brake, those work okay, but there are better options. They switched the threading on those, so choose what's available. It's a fine rifle setup for now, but if you want to get serious, you'll likely want to move over to the AR15 and .223/5.56 realm. Some people still run AKs as they go along, but they're usually running high-grade customs like Krebs and Rifle Dynamics variants. Also, many are opting for 5.45x39 as opposed to the 7.62x39 chambering due to the lower recoil.

With AKs, there eventually is a law of diminishing returns. With competition, you can only make an AK so good before you are out of options. It's something to start with and something work with, but it would be my recommendation that you be careful how much money you dump into it. People who start competition shooting and enjoy it often times start to really put in a lot of time and money into the sport, and they start trying to buy accuracy. With ARs, this is easy and very realistic. With AKs, you eventually come to a point where you're just throwing away your money. AKs are a lot like M1As in that respect. It all depends on where you want to go, and what you deem to be acceptable performance and payoff. If your competitions are close range with no significant long range component, or you have no interest in getting really serious about it any time soon, the AK is going to be just fine and there's no need to worry about it right now. However, you're going to see that the fastest and best shooters are using ARs and SCARs. In the Heavy Metal division, the top shooters are also running AR variants and SCARs.

As far as the 870, it's a great gun. Get a mag extension, pistol grip with adjustable stock, and then select whatever sights make you happy. In the future, if you get bigger into 3-Gun, you'll likely wind up going to a semi-auto for the faster shots and lower recoil.

For the handgun, it's best for you to get out to a range where they rent them out and see what you like to shoot. If by the Sig P6 you're referring to the old German P225, do you have a line on one somewhere? If so, that's a good collector's item, but not a good USPSA/IPSC/3-gun pistol. If you want a Sig, you'd be better of going with a variant of the P226. The P226 X-FIVE models are a 5" version for competition and tactical use, and would be the best options for a Sig for 3-Gun. The XD9 and M&P9 are both great options, but again if you want a competition specific pistol, the XD Tactical 9mm 5", XD(M) Comp 5.25 9mm and the M&P9 PRO would all be the ideal pistols due to the longer barrel and longer sight radius. Glock 34 also being in that category. If you want a standard size pistol for more all-around use, then certainly stick with a standard P226, XD/XD(M) Service, and M&P9.

More than anything, don't do much to upgrade anything until you spend some time at some competitions observing and talking to other shooters. This will help you to see what works, what doesn't, and where the most payoff comes from. Observing is also very important because regardless of what anyone tells you, the proof is in the performance. Some guy can claim to know everything there is to know about upgrades, weaponry and skills, but if he's a clown on the range, then it's obviously information that should be taken with a grain of salt. One thing I've noticed is that in competitive shooting, other competitors are very open to assisting and mentoring the newbies. If you show up with an open mind and willingness to learn, you can get a lot of help. As I said, just be sure to watch people and avoid the clowns and pretenders.

deliroast 04-28-2012 04:25 PM

Thanks for the input.

As far as the ak, I figured I would be fine since I checked out the site for the competition and it states that nothing over 200m since thats the furthest they can accommodate. Was already looking into an MI rail and red dot (not sure which yet.) Will definitely look into both of those brakes. Leaning towards the BattleComp atm. Would love to get an AR to do this with but trying to keep the costs down, definitely understand how much less recoil the AR has in comparison since I shoot M16/M4 all the time.

Which shotgun would you recommend if I do decide to get more serious about it?

As for the handgun situation the only ranges that rent have very limited selection. There are a few P6/P225 at a lgs that I was looking into that were fairly inexpensive. Also loved the fit in my hand. Didnt necessarily have to be a Sig just threw it out there since that was the one I had been eyeballing the last couple of times. The XD9 Tactical was the one I was also looking at but since I started with a 1911 and prefer the way they fit. On that note I'm not a fan of the Glock for those reasons. Just cant shoot for **** with one.

Ill definitely take your advice as far as observing since I've already encountered my fair share of "experts" in the area that have proven that they mainly talk a better game than they can perform. Thanks again for the help

Reedo302 04-28-2012 10:31 PM

With ARs, the advantage isn't just the lower recoil, but it's the options and enhancements that are available. From low-mass bolt carrier groups and lighter springs to drop-in triggers, a wider array of brakes/comps, and different forends for how you like the feel of your rifle. However, with where you're at right now, you're perfectly fine with everything you have.

With shotguns, the 870 will do well for a while, as there are a lot of mods you can buy for it. If you decide to upgrade to an autoloader, many companies offer a competition gun that will work for 3-Gun. Honestly, 3-Gun has probably been a saving grace for the tactical shotgun industry since the AR15 has skyrocketed in popularity.

I'm a big Benelli fan, and a strong believer in the inertia recoil system. I own two Benellis myself, and both have been 100% reliable for thousands of rounds.
The Benelli Performance Shop M2 3-Gun is a great option for when you want a serious upgrade.

http://www.benelliusa.com/assets/sil...yn_ct_3gun.jpg




Another option that has gotten a lot of attention lately is the FN SLP MK1. It's a gas operated system.

http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images.../FNM0202mb.png



Otherwise, any competition trap/clays shotgun, or any tactical grade shotgun will work.
Benelli M2, M4, SuperSport
FN SLP
Remington VersaMax Tactical, 1100 TAC-4

The other option is the Saiga 12ga shotgun, which is fed by box magazine. This is also a very popular option due to much faster reload times.

http://www.izhmash.ru/pix/saiga12k.jpg

Adam@Euro-Spec 04-28-2012 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 14341654)
With ARs, the advantage isn't just the lower recoil, but it's the options and enhancements that are available. From low-mass bolt carrier groups and lighter springs to drop-in triggers, a wider array of brakes/comps, and different forends for how you like the feel of your rifle. However, with where you're at right now, you're perfectly fine with everything you have.

With shotguns, the 870 will do well for a while, as there are a lot of mods you can buy for it. If you decide to upgrade to an autoloader, many companies offer a competition gun that will work for 3-Gun. Honestly, 3-Gun has probably been a saving grace for the tactical shotgun industry since the AR15 has skyrocketed in popularity.

I'm a big Benelli fan, and a strong believer in the inertia recoil system. I own two Benellis myself, and both have been 100% reliable for thousands of rounds.
The Benelli Performance Shop M2 3-Gun is a great option for when you want a serious upgrade.

http://www.benelliusa.com/assets/sil...yn_ct_3gun.jpg




Another option that has gotten a lot of attention lately is the FN SLP MK1. It's a gas operated system.

http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images.../FNM0202mb.png



Otherwise, any competition trap/clays shotgun, or any tactical grade shotgun will work.
Benelli M2, M4, SuperSport
FN SLP
Remington VersaMax Tactical, 1100 TAC-4

The other option is the Saiga 12ga shotgun, which is fed by box magazine. This is also a very popular option due to much faster reload times.

http://www.izhmash.ru/pix/saiga12k.jpg

When I can get time off I'd like to get into 3gun. I have a benelli m3 but I'm guessing I'd be better off going another route due to the weight of the m3? Plus the m3 doesn't get much aftermarket love, but it's been amazingly reliable.

david05111 04-29-2012 01:15 AM

Can you actually get that FN SLP in the blue color?

Reedo302 04-29-2012 11:21 AM

That's the factory photo. I've never seen one, but I assume you can.

david05111 04-29-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 14342794)
That's the factory photo. I've never seen one, but I assume you can.

Yeah I saw that on their website, but when I did a google image search I couldn't find one. Couldn't find anything but black on GB either


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