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-   -   MS42 < MS43 Compatibility Thread... (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929951)

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 12:17 AM

MS42 < MS43 Compatibility Thread...
 
Welcome!

The purpose of this thread is to discuss and document the possibility of retrofitting a 323/328 equipped with the Siemens MS42 DME with an MS43 DME.

Some background:

DME stands for Digital Motor Electronics. Its the European equivalent to ECU.

There were three versions of the Siemens DME offered with the e46 in North America, each with their own software packages which reflected the optional extras found in the car:
- MS42; used in the 323 and 328 M52TU engines
- MS43; used in the 325 and 330 M54 North American engines up to 03/2003; all 325xi
- MS45; used exclusively in North American for all M54 engines and SULEV engines produced after 03/2003; except all 325xi

The MS42 and MS43 have five harness connectors to handle the flow of data and power supply. They are referred to as "modules" and are numbered X60001 through X60005.

Pin Comparison Files (pdf format)
MS42(blue) vs MS43(red)

Module 1: X60001.pdf

Module 2: X60002.pdf

Module 3: X60003.pdf

Module 4: X60004.pdf

Module 5: X60005.pdf

Pin Location Reassignment: PIN_REASSIGNMENT.pdf

M52TU/M54 Part Comparison Spreadsheet: PART_NUMBER_COMPARISON.pdf

NOTE:
Its already known and documented that this DME swap can be done with the aid of an MS43 engine wiring harness. Our goal is to see if we can recycle the MS42 wiring harness, thus reducing cost and increasing accessibility.

This topic was initiated while discussing a viable solution to upgrade the M52TU to a larger throttle body located here:

Throttle Body Size (post b30 manifold swap)

More to follow...

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 01:20 AM

This is a repost of JT_3K's research on the MS43 pin assignments:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT_3K (Post 13582425)
Ok. I'm having issues with the MS43 DME Unit so I thought (as I can't find this information on the forum already) I'd crunch a guide to help everyone out. Hopefully this'll stop you struggling around the web like me to get this information.

Most of the info is for the MS43 but may be applicable to other DME units

It's got the BMW standardised connections A6000 up the side as shown here
http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/i...size/95461.jpg
Official plugs are as follows:

E=Input
A=Output
M=Ground


2 - X60001 9-pin, black Plug connector DME control unit Module 1
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/zi_images/B090009.png
1 A 15 Activate relay Relay, injection valves
2 Not used
3 Not used
4 M 31E Ground Ground point
5 M 31L Ground Ground point
6 M 31L Ground Ground point
7 E 30 Voltage supply B+ junction point E-box
8 E U_HR<2 Voltage supply Fuse holder in E-box
9 Not used



3 - X60002 24-pin, black Plug connector DME control unit Module 2
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/zi_images/B240002.png
1 M T_LHV1 Oxygen sensor heating ground Oxygen sensor 1 (in front of catalytic converter)
2 Not used
3 E/A D_CAN-L CAN bus low Transmission control module (EGS)
4 E/A D_CAN-H CAN bus high Transmission control module (EGS)
5 Not used
6 E/A D_TXD2 Diagnosis Transmission control module (EGS)
7 M T_LHH1 Oxygen sensor heating ground Oxygen sensor 1 (behind catalytic converter)
8 Not used
9 Not used
10 Not used
11 Not used
12 Not used
13 M T_LHV2 Oxygen sensor heating ground Oxygen sensor 2 (in front of catalytic converter)
14 E A_LSV1 Sensor signal Oxygen sensor 1 (in front of catalytic converter)
15 E A_LSV2 Sensor signal Oxygen sensor 2 (in front of catalytic converter)
16 E A_LSH1 Sensor signal Oxygen sensor 1 (behind catalytic converter)
17 Not used
18 E A_LSH2 Sensor signal Oxygen sensor 2 (behind catalytic converter)
19 M T_LHH2 Oxygen sensor heating ground Oxygen sensor 2 (behind catalytic converter)
20 M M_LSV1 Signal ground Oxygen sensor 1 (in front of catalytic converter)
21 M M_LSV2 Signal ground Oxygen sensor 2 (in front of catalytic converter)
22 M M_LSH1 Signal ground Oxygen sensor 1 (behind catalytic converter)
23 A S_HR Activate relay Engine control module relay
24 M M_LSH2 Signal ground Oxygen sensor 2 (behind catalytic converter)



4 - X60003 52-pin, black Plug connector DME control unit Module 3
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/zi_images/B520001.png
1 E A_HFM Signal air mass meter Hot film air mass meter
2 E P_NWGA1 Signal camshaft position Camshaft position sensor 2 (outlet)
3 Not used
4 Not used
5 E P_NWGE1 Signal camshaft position Camshaft position sensor 1 (inlet)
6 Not used
7 A U_DKG Voltage supply Electrical gas actuator
8 E P_KWG Signal crankshaft position Crankshaft position sensor
9 Not used
10 E A_DKG2 Throttle position signal 2 Electrical gas actuator
11 Not used
12 Not used
13 Not used
14 Not used
15 M M_NWGA1 Ground Camshaft position sensor 2 (outlet)
16 Not used
17 M M_HFM Ground Hot film air massmeter
18 M M_NWGE1 Ground Crankshaft position sensor 1 (inlet)
19 E A_DKG1 Throttle position signal 1 Electrical gas actuator
20 M M_DKG Ground Electrical gas actuator
21 M M_KWG Ground Crankshaft position sensor
22 E A_TANS Temperature signal Intake air temperature sensor
23 M M_TANS Ground Intake air temperature sensor
24 E A_TMOT Temperature signal Engine coolant temperature sensor
25 M M_TMOT Ground Engine coolant temperature sensor
26 Not used
27 E A_TOEL Temperature signal Oil temperature sensor
28 M M_TOEL Ground Oil temperature sensor
29 E A_KS1A Cyl. 1-3 knock sensor Double knock sensor
30 E A_KS1B Cyl. 1-3 knock sensor Double knock sensor
31 E A_KS2A Cyl. 4-6 knock sensor Double knock sensor
32 E A_KS2B Cyl. 4-6 knock sensor Double knock sensor
33 A P_EVZ1 Activate valve Cyl. 1 fuel injection valve
34 A P_EVZ2 Activate valve Cyl. 2 fuel injection valve
35 A P_EVZ3 Activate valve Cyl. 3 fuel injection valve
36 A P_EVZ4 Activate valve Cyl. 4 fuel injection valve
37 A P_EVZ5 Activate valve Cyl. 5 fuel injection valve
38 A P_EVZ6 Activate valve Cyl. 6 fuel injection valve
39 Not used
40 A T_NWE1 Activate valve Variable camshaft control valve 1 (inlet)
41 A T_NWA1 Activate valve Variable camshaft control valve 2 (outlet)
42 A T_TEV Activate valve Evaporative emission valve
43 A T_MDK1 Activate motor Throttle position actuator
44 A T_MDK2 Activate motor Throttle position actuator
45 A S_KFK Cooling signal Thermostat, characteristic map cooling
46 A T_LLFSS CLOSE signal Idle speed control valve
47 A T_LLFSO OPEN signal Idle speed control valve
48 M W_KS Ground Shield knock sensor
49 A S_DISA Activate valve Valve, individual control intake system
50 Not used
51 Not used
52 A S_SLPV Activate valve Secondary air pump valve



5 - X60004 40-pin, black Plug connector DME control unit Module 4
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/zi_images/B400001.png
1 Not used
2 Not used
3 A S_SLP Activate relay Secondary air pump relay
4 Not used
5 Not used
6 Not used
7 M M_FWG1 Ground Pedal position sensor
8 E A_FWG1 Signal, pedal position 1 Pedal position sensor
9 A U_FWG1 Voltage supply Pedal position sensor
10 A EKP Activate relay Fuel pump relay
11 Not used
12 M M_FWG2 Ground Pedal position sensor
13 E A_FWG2 Signal, pedal position 2 Pedal position sensor
14 A U_FWG2 Voltage supply Pedal position sensor
15 Not used
16 Not used
17 A TD Crankshaft RPM speed signal (TD) Electronic immobilizer control module (EWS III)/Thermal oil level sensor (TOENS) control module
18 Not used
19 Not used
20 A S_DMTL Voltage supply Leakage diagnosis pump
21 Not used
22 E DFAHR Speed signal right rear ABS/ASC/DSC control module
23 E KUPP Clutch signal Clutch switch
24 E KL 54 ON Brake signal Brake light switch
25 Not used
26 E 15A26 Terminal 15 Fuse 26
27 E MFL Cruise control signal Cruise control interface
28 E S_BLTS Brake signal Brake light switch
29 A S_KOREL Activate relay Compressor control relay
30 A S_UVTL Activate changeover valve Leakage diagnosis pump
31 Not used
32 E/A TXDII TXD diagnosis data link Data link connector
33 E S_DWA Drive-away protection signal (code) Electronic immobilizer control module (EWS III)
34 Not used
35 M 31 Ground Cruise control interface
36 E/A CAN+ CAN bus high Instrument cluster, ABS/ASC/DSC control module, steering angle sensor
37 E/A CAN- CAN bus low Instrument cluster, ABS/ASC/DSC control module, steering angle sensor
38 Not used
39 Not used
40 Not used


6 - X60005 9-pin, black Plug connector DME control unit Module 5
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/zi_images/B090009.png
1 A P_ZSZ3 Ignition coil signal Cyl. 3 ignition coil
2 A P_ZSZ2 Ignition coil signal Cyl. 2 ignition coil
3 A P_ZSZ1 Ignition coil signal Cyl. 1 ignition coil
4 Not used
5 M 31L Ground Ground point
6 M A_ZSR Ground Ground point
7 A P_ZSZ6 Ignition coil signal Cyl. 6 ignition coil
8 A P_ZSZ5 Ignition coil signal Cyl. 5 ignition coil
9 A P_ZSZ4 Ignition coil signal Cyl. 4 ignition coil


Thanks go to BMW of South Atlanta for the DME image, BMW 2001 Z3 MS43 Electrical Troubleshooting manual for the pins (seems to be the same as I can see) and spaghetticoder for the connector images.

REMEMBER Your DME is not a toy. You can :censor: :censor: :censor: :censor: it completely with minimal effort. You (I assume) are an adult (or at least adult enough to make your own decisions and live with your own mistakes. I make no promises about the validity of the data here, but it should be used as a 'guide'. If you can tap into the wire you need elsewhere, you might want to do it...


alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 01:23 AM

Okay, heres a quick shopping list of the things we're going to need:

- Verify the above pin assignments are correct for the MS43
- Compile a list of the pin assignments in the MS42
- Compile a list of engine components which the DME directly interfaces with

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 01:29 AM

Engine Components List (updated as new parts are suggested)

- Air intake temp sensor
- DISA
- EGR
- Ignition coils
- MAF
- Relays
- Crank angle sensor
- E-thermostat
- Cooling fan
- O2 sensors pre-cat
- O2 sensors post-cat
- Idle air control valve

If I missed something just say so!

TerraPhantm 06-27-2012 02:28 AM

Okay, well I decided to tackle the throttle wires. It's actually fairly simple once you have it on paper. Basically, any wires that stayed with the throttle body kept their original pins on the DME side. Any wires that had to be added/moved to the pedal module got new pins on X60004.

So here's the table. Format is:
EDK - MDK - X60003 (MS42/43) - Label
1 - 8 - 19 - A_DKG1
2 - 2 - 7 - U_DKG
3 - 9 - 43 - T_MDK1
4 - 5 - 10 - A_DKG2
5 - 10 - 44 - T_MDK2
6 - 4 - 20 - M_DKG

Discard all other MDK wires/pins

For the pedal, you're best off making a harness yourself. 6-wires
PWG - X60004 - Label
1 - 12 - M_FWG1
2 - 7 - M_FWG2
3 - 14 - U_FWG2
4 - 8 - A_FWG1
5 - 9 - U_FWG1
6 - 13 - A_FWG2


That is the bulk of the wiring difference. The other major difference is how various diagnostic signals are routed. It appears BMW just has the signals going directly to the cluster (or other module) instead of the DME sitting as a middle man. I have yet to verify this though, that'll be for another day.

X60002, and X60005 are identical between MS42 and MS43. X60001 has an extra voltage supply on Pin 9 for MS42 DMEs. Otherwise it is the same. Per the tables anyway. I guess we should verify the diagrams also look the same, but I doubt they'd switch polarities on us for no reason.

Hornung418 06-27-2012 10:03 AM

Ohhh...Me rikey.

Iceman00 06-27-2012 11:42 AM

<3

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 12:19 PM

welllllllllllllll lookey here!

I just found a pin summary for the MS42 and MS43. It lists the pin locations and purpose for each of the five harnesses that plug into both DMEs. This will make this comparison MUCH easier!

TerraPhantm, sorry if this is what you've been talking about.

MS42 LHD 5-speed manual

MS43 LHD 5-speed manual up to 09/2001

MS43 LHD 5-speed manual after 09/2001

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 12:36 PM

Question:

What version of the MS43 should we be using for this comparison? The MS42 didnt have very many options, but the MS43 looks like they had different year ranges.

Should we just make two tables?

TerraPhantm 06-27-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexxander.foster (Post 14522460)
Question:

What version of the MS43 should we be using for this comparison? The MS42 didnt have very many options, but the MS43 looks like they had different year ranges.

Should we just make two tables?

I'm using the oldest US M54 automatic variant in comparison with the US M52TU. I think any differences in later revisions will be for hardware they added later on (e.g. The SMG transmission)

And yeah the tables do make life easier, especially since the vast majority of the pins are in the same positions between the two modules.

Edit: also noticed that in addition to the differences I pointed out in my earlier post, they moved te signal for the SAP from pin 3 to pin 52 for some reason

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 01:33 PM

The first XLS files are ready:

X60001

X60002

X60005

Somebody chime in if they're wrong, otherwise i'll put them in the first post

TerraPhantm 06-27-2012 02:23 PM

Looks right to me.

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 05:18 PM

okay, I edited the first posting and made a link for modules 1, 2, and 5 in pdf format. Heres module 3:

X60003

What on earth is a "suction jet pump shut-off valve"?

TerraPhantm 06-27-2012 05:35 PM

I'm pretty sure that's the SAP

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 05:58 PM

aaannnnnddddd the last module:

Module 4: X60004

Hornung418 06-27-2012 06:14 PM

Seems Module 4 is where the issue lies...

alexxander.foster 06-27-2012 06:30 PM

Yes... its a cluster ****. From what I've gathered so far, it looks like there will have to be some pins that are shuffled between module 3 and 4.

I think before we go any further, it would be wise to have a cost-benefit discussion. I was browsing ebay today and found several M54 wiring harnesses for around 70-80 bucks. How much is it worth to someone to save 70 or 80 dollars by reusing the existing harness?

TerraPhantm 06-27-2012 06:43 PM

It's actually not that bad.

For the MDK/EDK stuff, post number 5 just about covers it.

On X60003, 6 pins from the MDK are retained (and just have to be rewired into the EDK connector at the TB side); the other 4 are discarded. And the SAP signal has to be switched from pin 3 to pin 52.

X60004 are where the pedal sensor/driver's wish connections ended up. You're best off just making your own harness for this. Its only 6 wires, and it's not particularly hard to route wires from the DME box to the firewall. Now what may prove to be problematic is the "fuel tank leak sensor" depending on what kind of hardware that requires... but someone retrofitting an MS43 harness would also have to retrofit that, so it may not be that big of a deal (or it doesn't throw a code). I would not worry about pin 18 - it's just for the butterfly valve in the 330 exhausts. It's completely optional (won't throw a code)

Now the other difference are the various diagnostic signals (battery, oil level, pressure, temperature, etc...) - we'll have to go through the diagrams to figure out what BMW did with them.

TerraPhantm 06-27-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexxander.foster (Post 14523672)
Yes... its a cluster ****. From what I've gathered so far, it looks like there will have to be some pins that are shuffled between module 3 and 4.

I think before we go any further, it would be wise to have a cost-benefit discussion. I was browsing ebay today and found several M54 wiring harnesses for around 70-80 bucks. How much is it worth to someone to save 70 or 80 dollars by reusing the existing harness?

More than the cost, I think it might actually be easier to reuse the harness. Because replacing an engine harness (that is somewhat integrated with the rest of the body) is not a trivial affair.

Hornung418 06-27-2012 08:41 PM

What parts of the harness would be hard to access? If they're that cheap, I'd rather do it that way as it should be relatively easy for me...I'm a "take things apart and put things back together" kind of person.


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