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-   -   Project 5HP19 transmission: Videos (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=934274)

jjrichar 07-20-2012 08:24 AM

Project 5HP19 transmission: Videos
 
Link to other parts of the project
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=928248

For those who are interested, I made a few videos of the procedures used to pull apart and then assemble the transmission. I've seen a couple of videos in this DIY section that I thought were great, and a much better way of showing how things fit together.

Why the videos? I wanted a good reference for the procedures later if I needed them, but also I wanted to show that this is not that difficult to do yourself. After the engine project, and then this transmission, if the engine was difficulty 10, I would rate the transmission a 7. The hardest bit would be getting it out of the car. Unlike the engine, there are very few special tools required, and those that you do need are pretty simple to make.

Finally, the cost of rebuilding a transmission yourself is very low. You can buy a basic rebuild kit for less than $200. For less than $1000 you can pretty much end up with a brand new transmission. I can't understand why transmission shops charge so much. I saw a thread once from a bloke who said that he had to pay about $5000 for a reverse drum replacement. This seems pretty incredible when the part only costs about $150. I'm clearly missing something.

The videos below explain most of the stuff involved with the major components.

Transmission Disassembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvqrjQS9DqQ

Transmission Assembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHz4GyeKhQE

Torque Converter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdREgCf0z30

General Clutch Disassembly/Assembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM7ZMcWazaE

Oil Pump and C clutch disassembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I09LAE3QzVU

Oil Pump and C clutch assembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWJXT1UvmEs

D/G clutch (Reverse Drum)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQgKJBYsI-I

Valve Body Removal
This also includes how to remove the pan and filter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9foaj6Q-gE

Valve Body Installation
This also includes how to install the filter and pan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWUSGkESjU

Valve Body Disassembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0POJLyrdxBo

Disassembly of individual valve body components
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzVi_da1ZX8

Valve Body Assembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hH7VAkOBMw

genuity 07-20-2012 11:14 PM

Nice work! These are priceless! :thumbup:

jjrichar 07-24-2012 10:12 AM

For those who are interested, I've added a few more videos showing how to remove/install the valve body. These also have the basics of how to remove the pan/filter etc.

djah 08-02-2012 04:09 PM

Hi there
These videos are great,thank you.
I had already removed,dismantled and cleaned the valve body before I saw them.
What a fright I got when all the plastic discs came out after I took the steel plate and gasket from the main body.

I would like to know if you would be able to help me?
The reason I went to the trouble of removing the valve body is that I was getting a shifting issue going from 2nd to 3rd gear. It seems to hesitate slightly and it only happens between these two gears.
When I say hesitate I mean that it seems to do a double gear change going from 2nd to 3rd.
Cleaning the valve body didn't make any difference.
Forgot to say my transmission is from a vw passat which is pretty much the same.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.

jjrichar 08-06-2012 01:48 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's my take on your problem. In my opinion it could be a couple of things. If you haven't downloaded the valve body document I put on the original post then I would do that as I will reference some of the information in it now.

I was fortunate to talk to a few different blokes lately who work on these transmissions all the time. A couple of things came out of it. Rarely when a transmission is being rebuilt will they need to replace any of the springs,pistons, or the orifices in the valve body. The only thing that is included in the rebuild kit are the black plugs that are stuck upside down in the channel plate. Did you replace these? If everything else looked fine, then they would go back in the valve body without issue. They said that when analysing a transmission, they would look at where the problem is, then look at the components activating it.

The change from 2nd to 3rd involves activating the F clutch. This might tell you that there is a problem with this clutch activation. If you've cleaned out the valve body already and all is ok, it may be the solenoid valve. One of the blokes I talked to said that often you could test a solenoid for resistance, but this was not necessarily a good test of if it worked OK. It could be a bit sticky, or slow to activate. For the F clutch to activate, MV1 and EDS3 deactivate. If I thought this was a problem I would swap some of these over with others of the same type in the transmission and see if the problem changed. You may be able to find your problem in this way. If you removed the transmission from the car and dismantled it, having a look at the clutch pack will tell you if all is good or not. If it has a spotty appearance, then it is slipping and will eventually fail. Attached is a photo of my C clutch to show you what I mean. when I showed this to one of the transmission techs, he immediately gave me the "well you will have to find out why this clutch is failing".

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1344231881

Here's another probable cause, and from your description, this is my best guess. You're driving a VW, which has the same transmission as my wife's Audi Allroad with regard to the transmission. Something that happens with our Audi is that it has quite an abrupt lockup clutch activation. I've wanted to get inside the transmission at some time to find out why, but haven't had the chance. One difference between the Audi and BMW setups is how the torque converter lockup clutch is used. On our Audi, it activates when in 2nd gear. On the BMW it's in 3rd. I initially thought this was a problem with 2nd to 3rd, but when driving in manual mode, it was obvious is was happening when I was in 2nd and not changing gear. Pretty obvious from the RPM gauge it was the TC clutch. What to do about it? For us, multiple oil changes over the years has made it less obvious, and it certainly hasn't gotten any worse. If you wanted to fix it, the first thing I would do is change over the EDS4 (EDS4's sole job is the TC clutch) solenoid to another and see if this makes any difference. If not, it's probably a TC issue, and requires it to be rebuilt.

Hope this helps.

djah 08-06-2012 08:14 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thank you very much for your reply.
When I removed the valve body I only cleaned it and put it back together.I guess I didnt do enough research before hand to be aware that those black plugs could be a problem.I have attached a photo of the valve body that I took at the time but its not clear from the photo if they are worn or not.
I think I will remove the valve body again,when I get the time,and swap some of the solenoids to see if it makes a difference.I haven't been able to locate a supplier of these parts in europe so I may have to look in the U.S. for solenoids and black plugs if they are the problem.
Thanks again for your pointers as I didnt know which solenoids did what.I know its not a life or death issue but its just slightly annoying.Attachment 463787

Cucu680 08-14-2012 04:44 AM

I like all your threads. Thanks for the work :-)

BMW04E46 12-04-2012 04:57 PM

awesome videos!

veuve 01-03-2013 01:01 AM

Unbelievably detailed. About to do mine and this will come in very handy. Big Thanks!

slowguy 03-16-2013 11:05 AM

jjrichar...your detail is amazing. I just wanted to ask you if you know if the all wheel drive 5hp19 is much different to build? I recently picked up a project 5hp19 HCT coding from a quattro audi and, after watching your amazing instruction, considering installed a kit this summer. The kit I want to install: http://www.levelten.com/Audi_Vw_auto...-g110-7600.htm

jjrichar 03-16-2013 05:42 PM

The transmission you are going to rebuild is more complex than the one I pulled apart. Being AWD, it has the torsen diff on the back and the front diff internally up near the bell housing. Internally, with regard to gears/valve body, it is going to be similar (but not exactly the same).

With regards to the kit you are considering buying, my advice is to pull apart the TX first and see what you want. The kit is a complete overhaul one. You are paying a lot of money for the clutch steels/friction plates. You may not need them. There are overhaul kits available that are far cheaper that only include all Orings, and stuff for the valve body. You can also just buy the clutch packs for those you want to replace.

slowguy 03-16-2013 08:38 PM

The main reason I was considering the purchase of that kit is that it proposes to be a much stronger selection of parts. My car was designed to output about 275 hp at the crank. Currently I have it right around 350hp. I will never go beyond 400hp but I read that this transmission is weakest on the 4th and 5th gears and the torque converter is prone to failure because of a defective seal. I can purchase a rebuilt, stonger converter for a decent price - but what they want for a supposed rebuilt, stonger transmission is over-the-top expensive for what it is.

My brother has the same transmission in his s4 audi and it was sent off and rebuilt by this company. He is pushing more than 450hp and has put at least 60k miles on his transmission with no problems.

From your experience, do you think this kit would actually include parts that are capable of handling power that much in excess of stock?

BTW...your videos are amazing. Thanks.

jjrichar 03-17-2013 04:51 AM

Thanks for the feedback on the videos. I'm glad you got something from them.

Regards the rebuild kit, to be honest I have no idea. I don't know where the weak points in the transmission are. However from the look of the rebuild kit you are looking at, the company seems to think the clutch packs are a point of weakness. From my very limited understanding of putting lots of extra torque through an auto box, the damage will occur during gear changes. I'm assuming from the rebuild kit the failure susceptible components during high torque gear changes are the clutch packs themselves.

I've seen feedback online from ZF regarding putting loads of extra torque through an auto box. The feedback was that the damage would occur during gear changes, and that changes to engine output during gear changes (ie. changing DME coding ) needed to occur to ensure no damage. This is obviously something that isn't a simple task.

My advice. Talk to the company and find out what they know. If they are selling a kit that is going to beef up the transmission, they should be all over what the failure modes are, the fixes required in the box, and what other things can be done to ensure it's longevity. If you can't change the DME coding of the engine, get off the gas during gear changes. I always drive my car in manual mode, and even though I know the DME is retarding the timing during changes, I get off the gas a bit as well as a matter of course.

Again, this is just my opinion, and I'm no expert. There are no doubt a lot of people out there who know more about it than me.

slowguy 03-18-2013 07:58 PM

Talked to the rep today and he said it is indeed the extra torque between shifts that usually causes failures. He didn't go into specifics but said that their parts are much stonger (not sure I would have understood what he was talking about anyway). He threw in there that they have tested their valve bodies up to 700 hp (seems a bit excessive but again, I don't know enough yet to make any assumptions).

I told him I had a second used tranny on the way that I plan to rebuild and he suggested taking it apart first. He said if I spot damage, take a picture and send it to him and he can tell exactly why it happened. He noted that he has been building transmissions for 40 years.

He said the quattro version is not much different than the one you have in your videos except for something in the back end of it?..and that there is one part that is a pain seperating and would need to be done with a press? Don't know, have MUCH to learn. He said the kit comes with the manual that ZF produces for technicians and it is very complete. I really prefer video but if I can complete this myself, maybe I will take video for my own reference on reassembly. He said there is no video instruction specifically for the AWD version that he knows of but I shouldn't have any problem with the print manual only.

Keeping my fingers crossed...it should be here hopefully sometime next week. I am going to set up a clean bench in my garage to help organize the disassembly.

icecolde46 04-15-2013 10:52 AM

terribly awesome. This is just what I need.

If there's video on how to remove the tranny, I am saved.

Vronsky 05-03-2013 03:02 AM

Hi,
My E39 also has a 5HP19 on board.
It's done 200K quiet kilometers by now, including two fluid & filter changes by an official ZF service company, all seems to function okay.
Would appreciate to know what's your opinion/experience on the lifetime expectancy of this model, or, at what mileage should I expect a rehaul ??

Best Regards,
from Amsterdam,
V.

jjrichar 05-03-2013 04:33 AM

I can't give you a good guide as I don't have much experience with the longevity of this transmission in particular. That being said, I've talked to people who drive their cars for a long time (taxi drivers and others with serious car collections), and what was clear is that with regular maintenance (personally I think every 50,000 km as a minimum for fluid and filter), the transmission should last for a lot longer than 200,000 km. Whilst it feels like it is running OK, then all is good.

From what I understand, good clean fluid and not driving it hard when cold are the two most important factors in the longevity of the transmission. Regular fluid changes cleans all the sediment out of the transmission, keeping the valve body working correctly. New fluid has good lubrication qualities, which will have the clutches engage correctly and with little wear, and obviously keep all the moving gear parts from wearing very little.

A transmission at operating temp means all the parts have achieved their correct operating clearances, and the oil will be at the correct viscosity. This gives good oil flow for the operating oil pressure and hence good lubrication throughout the transmission. Also, the gear changes are calibrated for the oil to be at a certain viscosity. Anything different to this will give harsher changes, and hence more wear over time. Note that when the oil is cold, the pressure is regulated to the same level, but the flow, which is the really important thing, is a small fraction of when it is warm. Oil flow is a function of oil pressure (regulated by the pressure regulator in the transmission), and the oil viscosity (oil temp). Cold oil means poor oil flow. Oil flow, not pressure, is what protects your engine/transmission.

Moral of the story is changing your fluid regularly, and getting it warm before you drive it (or drive it gently when cold), will have you driving your car forever. The cab drivers I've spoken to (and this is driving cars with far inferior transmissions than the ZF) would get at least a million km out of a transmission prior to a rebuild. Regular fluid changes and having the transmission constantly at operating temp were key to this.

Hope this helps

niswiz 09-11-2013 10:47 AM

Hi, just wondering if you can shed some light on my situation, I recently accquired a 2001 A4 that had a spun oil pump bearing. after replacing the bearing and seal, filled up the tranny with oil until it ran out. mechanic took the car for a drive, he then topped up the tranny fluid and now the car has no drive or reverse. this has us very baffled and i would like to know if you can shed any light or offer any suggesions. we are also in a country that has very few spares so most spares must be imported. thanks in advance.

jjrichar 09-11-2013 09:33 PM

Can you confirm that after filling the transmission, you then started the car, ran it through the gears a bunch of times, then with the engine still going, refilled the oil until it ran out again. It is essential to keep the engine running while you are filling it a second time. If not, all the fluid that has been sucked up into the valve body with the engine going will then fall into the pan. If you haven't gone through this process to fill with oil, you will be very low. About 3L low. When the mechanic came back and topped up the fluid, the car needed to be going while he did this.

What designation is the transmission. 01V? This is the audi designation of the ZF 5HP19.

Does the transmission go into limp mode when you select drive? Does it go into reverse at all? If neither of these is the case, then it is very likely it is an oil pressure issue. Either low oil or the pump is not operating correctly.

niswiz 09-11-2013 10:12 PM

the engine was running the last time, yes it is the 01v designation, not sure about the limp mode, I can select either drive gears or reverse and it does not move a bit, will rev and rev to limiter without moving. not sure if the oil is low but the oil started to run out.


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