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-   -   weight or power (voting pole inside) (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=936303)

DarkJoker 07-31-2012 09:33 PM

weight or power (voting pole inside)
 
So I'm somewhat threw with my n/a mods and eventually want to go F/I.
ESS TS2 + is my ideal setup for F/I. I'm aware I can make more power with a TT turbo setup.

But the question popped in my head as I plan to track my car finally next year.


My power mods so far are:
Rouge pulley's
Bmw performance intake (thoughts of trying a custom setup soon)
BB headers(will be upgrading to their new almost equal length setup)
Custom tune
(Dyno dynamics results 221 rwhp 201 tq 15% drivetrain loss already accounted for)

Weight loss is:
Kosei k1's
Muffler delete
UUC stage 2 lightweight flywheel and clutch
Gutted trunk
No backseat

My weight plans are:
c/f hood
c/f trunk
c/f roof no sunroof
c/f fenders (unsure of weight savings so unsure if worthwhile)
c/f doors(after cage is installed of course)
lighter seats
remove left over sound deadening (eventually)
remove hvac system(if no longer a complete daily driver)

The car will mostly be a track setup but with some daily driving done as well.(pending some of above listed mods)

So the question
Do I save for the ESS TS2+ setup or pursue the weight savings first?

teamdfl 08-01-2012 07:00 AM

To add speed, add lightness.
- Colin Chapman

wrcdave 08-01-2012 08:40 PM

If you are going to track your car regularly go for lightness. The F/I will make you have overheating issues on track which will spoil the experience. Back in the '90s when I raced Skip Barber formula cars which had 140 hp I could do better lap times at Limerock than I could in a 500 hp Dodge Viper.

DarkJoker 08-01-2012 08:45 PM

i was thinking the weight path right now more so over the power path simply because of i can get everything in pieces and not have to save for X amount of time to get one piece

its easier to come up with $1000 than $6000 in real world means

im looking forward to information gained from anyone/everyone

Snik 08-01-2012 08:48 PM

Weight weight weight.
You can't use power everywhere. It helps down the straights and out of turns but lighter weight not only helps there but middle corner and entry, and makes the power u have now more effective out of said turns and down the straights.

Not to mention easier on tires and brakes.

S85FTW 08-01-2012 08:48 PM

Take out the spare tire, take out the armrest/center console. Replace with a cf center console.

With a cf hood, trunk, center console, lightweight battery I was 100lbs lighter than stock.

bigjae1976 08-03-2012 10:29 AM

For occasional track days, an Fi'd M54 will do great. My experience with frequent days is its a massive PIA.

If you do go FI on the track, I would at least recommend a charge cooler like AA's meth kit. That will help a lot in keeping the temps down. I've got an oil cooler, can't say I'm convinced yet. Last track day, I was overheating...not sure if it was a bleed issue, fan failure/seizure, or something else. But I've NEVER had an overheating issue. I am a little concerned since the oil cooler is front mounted and takes up quite a bit of surface area. More to follow on that...still working out the bugs from my engine rebuild.

Oil pump nut upgrade is an absolute must.

Weight loss is more technically correct. Going FI will be a lot more fun. It all depends on your goals.

e46techtuner 08-11-2012 08:01 PM

If your going to track your car, chances are you are going to get hooked. So go for weight mods and you will save on fuel consumption, brakes and tires. Plus it saves other suspension and drivetrain parts from extra wear and tear.

330Cole 08-12-2012 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S85FTW (Post 14620581)
Take out the spare tire, take out the armrest/center console. Replace with a cf center console.

With a cf hood, trunk, center console, lightweight battery I was 100lbs lighter than stock.

How do you get a cf center console? How heavy is the stock one?

DarkJoker 08-12-2012 10:50 AM

I think they are refering to the csl center console

I dont see alot of weight savings though from it
Maybe 2-3 lbs
I could be wrong though

Sent from my PC36100 using Bimmer App

KrasivataSabine 09-10-2012 07:36 AM

Gut what weight you can. I stripped about 200 lbs and it made a noticeable, profound even, difference on canyone runs. I can only imagine what'd it be like on a track :eeps:

acpstunts 09-10-2012 01:40 PM

What lightweight battery did you go with? Im looking into getting one in the near future as well.

bigjae1976 09-10-2012 01:47 PM

I just drove a ~2500lb E36 M3 that was down on power...it was super fun and the handling fantastic! I would close on cars in the corner...it was so tossable! The straights weren't as fun though as the higher HP car walked away. Plus one of the motor mounts was on its last leg so shifting was a challenge at times which kills your momentum.

All this car needed was to fix the drivetrain mounts and a shorter diff than the 3.23 it had it would be so quick!

Bayerische E46 09-10-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJoker (Post 14617731)
So I'm somewhat threw with my n/a mods and eventually want to go F/I.
ESS TS2 + is my ideal setup for F/I. I'm aware I can make more power with a TT turbo setup.

But the question popped in my head as I plan to track my car finally next year.


My power mods so far are:
Rouge pulley's
Bmw performance intake (thoughts of trying a custom setup soon)
BB headers(will be upgrading to their new almost equal length setup)
Custom tune
(Dyno dynamics results 221 rwhp 201 tq 15% drivetrain loss already accounted for)

Weight loss is:
Kosei k1's
Muffler delete
UUC stage 2 lightweight flywheel and clutch
Gutted trunk
No backseat

My weight plans are:
c/f hood
c/f trunk
c/f roof no sunroof
c/f fenders (unsure of weight savings so unsure if worthwhile)
c/f doors(after cage is installed of course)
lighter seats
remove left over sound deadening (eventually)
remove hvac system(if no longer a complete daily driver)

The car will mostly be a track setup but with some daily driving done as well.(pending some of above listed mods)

So the question
Do I save for the ESS TS2+ setup or pursue the weight savings first?

Three questions:

1) How much track experience do you have?
2) What is your ultimate goal with the car? You mention stripping the sound deadening, which is something that's only worth doing on a race car. You then mention FI, which is something you definitely DO NOT WANT on a racecar. This sounds suspect to me - sounds like you don't understand what your ultimate goals are nor what you may actually be getting yourself into (I don't mean that as an insult so please don't take it as such - I made the mistake of not well-informing myself when I built my race car so I made a lot of idiotic decisions which wound up costing me thousands and thousands of dollars).
3) What kind of cage are you having built?

S85FTW 09-10-2012 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJoker (Post 14646575)
I think they are refering to the csl center console

I dont see alot of weight savings though from it
Maybe 2-3 lbs
I could be wrong though

Sent from my PC36100 using Bimmer App

That's absolutely wrong sir. I weighed the center console w armrest and I shed 15lbs by using a csl center console.

Bayerische E46 09-10-2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S85FTW (Post 14720712)
That's absolutely wrong sir. I weighed the center console w armrest and I shed 15lbs by using a csl center console.

Interesting. I did the same and I shed only 5lbs. You must have had a brick in your cup holder.

S85FTW 09-10-2012 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayerische E46 (Post 14720722)
Interesting. I did the same and I shed only 5lbs. You must have had a brick in your cup holder.

The armrest alone is 7lbs with mounts. Check the weights yourself.

Bayerische E46 09-10-2012 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S85FTW (Post 14720725)
The armrest alone is 7lbs with mounts. Check the weights yourself.

You know, I made a boo boo - I didn't have an armrest. Slipped my mind.

These weights make a little more sense now. 5lbs for the console and 7lbs for the arm rest. But that's only 12lbs. Where are the other 3lbs? Maybe the non-armrest center console is 3lbs lighter than the arm-rest center console?

Meh, who knows.

S85FTW 09-10-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayerische E46 (Post 14720789)
You know, I made a boo boo - I didn't have an armrest. Slipped my mind.

These weights make a little more sense now. 5lbs for the console and 7lbs for the arm rest. But that's only 12lbs. Where are the other 3lbs? Maybe the non-armrest center console is 3lbs lighter than the arm-rest center console?

Meh, who knows.

Wiring, rear ashtray, and BMW assist unit reside under the armrest as well. 15lbs total gone.

DarkJoker 09-10-2012 08:25 PM

See answers below

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayerische E46 (Post 14720607)
Three questions:

1) How much track experience do you have?
This is going to sound horrible but none
the way i think of it(and it will be seen as wrong, i know this) is why would i train myself to drive a stock car and then mod further and reteach myself to drive that car all over again with new mods
yes feeling and technique will carry from what i learned on the stock settings but overall i almost dont see a point in it


2) What is your ultimate goal with the car? You mention stripping the sound deadening, which is something that's only worth doing on a race car. You then mention FI, which is something you definitely DO NOT WANT on a racecar. This sounds suspect to me - sounds like you don't understand what your ultimate goals are nor what you may actually be getting yourself into (I don't mean that as an insult so please don't take it as such - I made the mistake of not well-informing myself when I built my race car so I made a lot of idiotic decisions which wound up costing me thousands and thousands of dollars).
my main goal is to make my car my own
its really my first project car i have done and ill be doing as much of the work I can myself.(former bmw tech)
Hopefully some of the genius minds on here like pei330ci,aggiee46,bigjae1976,rob43 to name a few can shed some light if i get stuck somewhere along the line.
Thus-far whenever i have asked a question from someone on here they have always been real helpful in pointing me in the right direction if they did not know the answer themselves.
Sound deadening is a down the line thing nothing immediate when it gets to that point ill may or may not being driving the car everyday like i do now as it sits.
what wrong with adding F/I and being a somewhat race setup?
people on here have done it. of course there will be issues but its more learning on how to fix it so it does not happen again the same way


3) What kind of cage are you having built?
full cage with subframe tie in will be down the line most likely ill run with a half cage like autopower for a while till i get everything i want
i dont see anything wrong with a little extra security in case of an oh sh!t moment

anyone and everyone can laugh all they want at how i appear and how i answered all of it here
i dont really care. this is an on going build
it wont happen at the pace like pei330's did (dont mean any offense in any sort of way)

its all piece by piece and when i have some free money



Quote:

Originally Posted by S85FTW (Post 14720712)
That's absolutely wrong sir. I weighed the center console w armrest and I shed 15lbs by using a csl center console.

I'm just going by weights listed from a thread on the forum and the new weight of the item on vendor pages



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