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-   -   Is this rear shock mount bad??? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=948777)

taburki1s 10-05-2012 01:06 AM

Is this rear shock mount bad???
 
3 Attachment(s)
So just wondering if this is bad and needs replaced? I am hearing a metal clunking/rattling sound over rough roads that disappears when braking. I know about my anti-rattle clips and I am ordering them soon.

MJLavelle 10-05-2012 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taburki1s (Post 14789713)
So just wondering if this is bad and needs replaced? I am hearing a metal clunking/rattling sound over rough roads that disappears when braking. I know about my anti-rattle clips and I am ordering them soon.

Yes, absolutely. You need to get them NOW. From the pics, it does not look like any of the sheetmetal around them has ripped, although I may be wrong.
DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR BEFORE THEY ARE REPAIRED. Even if there is no sheetmetal damage. If you end up tearing sheet metal, then you have a major fix. If you already have torn some of the Sheetmetal, you will make matters worse by driving.

I think several of us asked you about this when you determined that it was the brake clips. I am pretty sure I did.

Edit: looking closer, it looks as if it was not installed correctly in the first place. It does not look right.

Alex323Ci 10-05-2012 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14789764)
Yes, absolutely. You need to get them NOW. From the pics, it does not look like any of the sheetmetal around them has ripped, although I may be wrong.
DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR BEFORE THEY ARE REPAIRED. Even if there is no sheetmetal damage. If you end up tearing sheet metal, then you have a major fix. If you already have torn some of the Sheetmetal, you will make matters worse by driving.
Edit: looking closer, it looks as if it was not installed correctly in the first place. It does not look right.

why do you think the sheetmetal around will rip? the rsm is basically a guide for the top shock piston shaft. i don't see how it's that critical as you make it sound. sure rsm are important but the spring is what holds the car up.

OP, it's hard to say. it looks like your using the rubber washer gasket that comes unglued? if it's half of the rubber mount then it's broken. maybe i'm not getting a good look at it on my phone screen but it does Not appear thrashed like i have seen them. the rubber breaks apart and the center pushes through most of the time. really does NOT look broken to me from what i can see. :dunno:

LeMansteve 10-05-2012 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex323Ci (Post 14789792)
OP, it's hard to say. it looks like your using the rubber washer gasket that comes unglued? if it's half of the rubber mount then it's broken. maybe i'm not getting a good look at it on my phone screen but it does Not appear thrashed like i have seen them. the rubber breaks apart and the center pushes through most of the time. really does NOT look broken to me from what i can see. :dunno:

Agree. I see a rubber gasket/washer or something between the curved metal washer and the top of the mount. There is nothing in the OP's pictures to suggest anything is making the car undrivable. In any case, we really need a video to see if there is any dynamic failure such as rubber pushing through the center of the mount.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14789764)
Edit: looking closer, it looks as if it was not installed correctly in the first place. It does not look right.

Why does it look like it was installed incorrectly? What doesn't look right?

hummer 10-05-2012 10:52 AM

Looks to me like the rubber center section of the mount has failed! This is the classic failure mode for the cheap crap OEM mounts. If you can push down on the shaft and it moves, that would prove my point. It's easy to remove the shock and see for sure. Quit guessing and do it! Replace with Meyle HD.

LeMansteve 10-05-2012 11:01 AM

Taburki, does your rear suspension do this:

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=945911

taburki1s 10-05-2012 11:36 PM

Man it has been raining here all day. So didn't test it yet but I have already ordered meyle HD shock mounts. I am just going to replace both rear mounts. Should I also look at replacing shock absorbers. Any suggestions?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Bimmer App

LeMansteve 10-06-2012 07:37 AM

how old are the shocks?

euG! 10-06-2012 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14789764)
Yes, absolutely. You need to get them NOW. From the pics, it does not look like any of the sheetmetal around them has ripped, although I may be wrong.
DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR BEFORE THEY ARE REPAIRED. Even if there is no sheetmetal damage. If you end up tearing sheet metal, then you have a major fix. If you already have torn some of the Sheetmetal, you will make matters worse by driving.

I think several of us asked you about this when you determined that it was the brake clips. I am pretty sure I did.

Edit: looking closer, it looks as if it was not installed correctly in the first place. It does not look right.

Ahhhh!!!!! Lol. Bad RSM's are fine to drive on just don't prolong the repair. I also went with MEYLE HD's and i like them. How many miles are on your shocks? You could replace shocks & mounts all at once but it's not necessary. You could save your money for down the road when they do need replacement. Also you may want to add Z3 reinforcement plates and don't forget the RSM gaskets!

taburki1s 10-06-2012 11:31 PM

Ye I purchased the kit from uucautowerks. I just can't wait to do this job. I bought the car with 146xxx and do not know of any maintenance history. I am just just refreshing things as they show up. I don't not see any issues with shocks beside the clunking sound that could possibly just be a bad anti rattle clip.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Bimmer App

Russian172 10-07-2012 02:51 PM

Naaahh Braahh you need a new alternator

Alex323Ci 10-07-2012 03:32 PM

im still not sure how people say it's damaged. there is nothing showing that the rsm is broken or damaged. you'd have to take the metal washer off and look underneath to see if some damage was hidden. from those photos it's fine.
that other part is the rubber washer/gasket 33 52 6 751 174 and not part of the rsm that is broken. i have already said this. here is a photo describing

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/shocked-15.jpg

MJLavelle 10-08-2012 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMansteve (Post 14789952)
Agree. I see a rubber gasket/washer or something between the curved metal washer and the top of the mount. There is nothing in the OP's pictures to suggest anything is making the car undrivable. In any case, we really need a video to see if there is any dynamic failure such as rubber pushing through the center of the mount.



Why does it look like it was installed incorrectly? What doesn't look right?


Well, the top washer/plate is not supposed to be concave (or convex if you flip it over), which makes me think someone cranked down on it way too much.

As far as saying I would replace it right away, I guess pictures like this are influencing my decision:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/8...60f17a37_s.jpg
Untitled by MJLavelle, on Flickr

And, just to be clear, I did not say it was un-driveable. I said he should not drive it until the RSM's are replaced. If your wife is in labor, or your kid has a bleeding head wound, then drive it. Otherwise, stop driving, and fix it.
But, if I am in the minority here, then that is fine. I would not risk additional damage to the shock.
I mentioned sheet metal tearing because there have been photos posted on here, that I could not dig up, of that entire area tearing in some of the worst cases, and cracks developing around the bolt holes at best. They do sell those reinforcement plates for the RSM's for a reason.
If you figure the costs of repairing the sheet metal in that area, I would stop driving, and replace the mounts, rather than risk damage. It is always easy to debate possibilities, and to say that it "shouldn't be a problem" when it is not your car.
I will not hand out advice like that, plain and simple. I have seen and read about RSM failures associated with cracking or tearing sheet metal in that area, so my advice is and will always be to stop driving, and replace the part, because of the potential for more damage.
The OP can listen or not, and he has to make the final decision. Personally, I think it is irresponsible to tell someone they "should be OK". Err on the side of caution, and assume that the person posting is not able to make an informed decision or to evaluate the risk properly. The fact that he asked is pretty good proof of that, and I don't want additional damage to his car because I guessed that it would be OK.
I was polite about it, and I did not get all "Mango dramatic" (sorry Mango :) ) with him and say "You are an idiot if you don't replace the entire rear suspension". I simply said that, in my opinion, he should stop driving it, and replace the mounts. After all, we are only talking about $70 worth of parts.
Unless I can crawl in his trunk, and look for myself, I will advise the most cautious approach. But, maybe that is just me.

LeMansteve 10-08-2012 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14796327)
Well, the top washer/plate is not supposed to be concave (or convex if you flip it over), which makes me think someone cranked down on it way too much.

As far as saying I would replace it right away, I guess pictures like this are influencing my decision:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/8...60f17a37_s.jpg
Untitled by MJLavelle, on Flickr

And, just to be clear, I did not say it was un-driveable. I said he should not drive it until the RSM's are replaced. If your wife is in labor, or your kid has a bleeding head wound, then drive it. Otherwise, stop driving, and fix it.
But, if I am in the minority here, then that is fine. I would not risk additional damage to the shock.
I mentioned sheet metal tearing because there have been photos posted on here, that I could not dig up, of that entire area tearing in some of the worst cases, and cracks developing around the bolt holes at best. They do sell those reinforcement plates for the RSM's for a reason.
If you figure the costs of repairing the sheet metal in that area, I would stop driving, and replace the mounts, rather than risk damage. It is always easy to debate possibilities, and to say that it "shouldn't be a problem" when it is not your car.
I will not hand out advice like that, plain and simple. I have seen and read about RSM failures associated with cracking or tearing sheet metal in that area, so my advice is and will always be to stop driving, and replace the part, because of the potential for more damage.
The OP can listen or not, and he has to make the final decision. Personally, I think it is irresponsible to tell someone they "should be OK". Err on the side of caution, and assume that the person posting is not able to make an informed decision or to evaluate the risk properly. The fact that he asked is pretty good proof of that, and I don't want additional damage to his car because I guessed that it would be OK.
I was polite about it, and I did not get all "Mango dramatic" (sorry Mango :) ) with him and say "You are an idiot if you don't replace the entire rear suspension". I simply said that, in my opinion, he should stop driving it, and replace the mounts. After all, we are only talking about $70 worth of parts.
Unless I can crawl in his trunk, and look for myself, I will advise the most cautious approach. But, maybe that is just me.

Lol, Mango-dramatic! At the first sign of irregularity, REPLACE ENTIRE SUSPENSION AND COOLING SYSTEM.

Good point, I guess considering the fairly minimal cost to replace the mount and hardware and a high mileage car with unknown maintenance records makes it easy to be cautious in this case. Also as information, the top washer is supposed to be concave: http://www.ecstuning.com/ES1875654/

Alex323Ci 10-08-2012 01:45 PM

what is up with this forum now :banghead: because of "one member" the forum now when they don't know how to diagnose a thread issue is to tell them to replace.

Alex323Ci 10-08-2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14789764)
Yes, absolutely.
You need to get them NOW.
DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR BEFORE THEY ARE REPAIRED.
it looks as if it was not installed correctly in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14796327)
Well, the top washer/plate is not supposed to be concave (or convex if you flip it over), which makes me think someone cranked down on it way too much

Well no, that washer is suppose to be that way. It is a must that it be fitted that way or else you will have not installed the rsm correctly. This really makes me believe you have not the experience in this topic. I'm not picking on you, but perhaps this is not the best thread topic for your input. :dunno:
Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14796327)
And, just to be clear, I did not say it was un-driveable. I said he should not drive it until the RSM's are replaced.
But, if I am in the minority here, then that is fine. I would not risk additional damage to the shock.

that is semantics, you put ALL IN CAPITALS the OP NOT drive his car.
also extremely low chance it would ever damage the shock.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14796327)
I mentioned sheet metal tearing because there have been photos posted on here, that I could not dig up, of that entire area tearing in some of the worst cases, and cracks developing around the bolt holes at best. They do sell those reinforcement plates for the RSM's for a reason.

yes sheet metal does tear. but the Z3 reinformcement plates are for that model of BMW sheetmetal. even the E46 Rough Road package doesn't have the rear plates. Re-inforcement plates are used for firm suspensions with little travel, i know about them. i installed them on 4 of my last BMWs. it's more a safety insurance, not because of the mounts breaking. (but i'm sure in some extreme case you may find an example). but on the E46 when a basic rsm breaks it's not taking the sheetmetal with it. just the center bonded rubber out of the metal casing.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MJLavelle (Post 14796327)
It is always easy to debate possibilities, and to say that it "shouldn't be a problem" when it is not your car. I will not hand out advice like that, plain and simple. I have seen and read about RSM failures associated with cracking or tearing sheet metal in that area, so my advice is and will always be to stop driving, and replace the part, because of the potential for more damage. The OP can listen or not, and he has to make the final decision. Personally, I think it is irresponsible to tell someone they "should be OK". Err on the side of caution, and assume..
I was polite about it..I simply said that, in my opinion, he should stop driving it, and replace the mounts. After all, we are only talking about $70 worth of parts.
Unless I can crawl in his trunk, and look for myself, I will advise the most cautious approach. But, maybe that is just me.

Well you say he can make the final decision, but when someone says It ABSOLUTELY is broken this is not giving him the correct facts. You say some advice by others is irresponsible, how is first post YES Absolutley it is broken and Not to Drive responsible? You say now that your advice is to err on the cautious side. But that was not your tone in the first post. It wasn't so easy going and allow the OP to make his own decision. You gave Direct It's Broken. Fix them Now, DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR BEFORE THEY ARE REPAIRED.
And for the record, again the do NOT look broken. And if they are starting. they have a long way to go before they do any damage.


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